Has “Homosexual” always been in the Bible?

  Рет қаралды 71,040

Commons Church

Commons Church

5 жыл бұрын

A great article came out recently asking whether the word 'homosexual' has actually always been in our Bibles. [link here] www.forgeonline.org/blog/2019...
I think it may be a little more complicated though...
01:08 - Translation Issues
05:36 - Ancient Meanings
07:30 - Narrative Trajectory
The word "homosexual" doesn't enter the conversation until the 19th century in Germany and isn't used regularly until the 20th century in English. Before that, homosexuality wasn't considered part of someone's identity simply, a thing one might do. Which is why it doesn't enter the translations until around that time. Instead "boy molester" was probably considered a more pressing "sin" culturally to fit the term arsenekotais which is literally "man-bed". Naomi Klein recently stepped into a strangely similar debate about Victorian-era justice. She identified rulings where it appeared that homosexual men had been put to death, but upon further research by others, it appears that what we are reading as homosexual was probably understood to mean boy-molesting in a culture where homosexual identity was not properly recognized. It also appears these men were not actually executed. All that to say that for a long period "boy-molester" was probably the normative understanding of words we would now translate homosexual.
However, that does not mean that would have been the normative understanding in the ancient world.
The Levitical passages are definitely not talking about "boy-molesters" because the Hebrew is more definitively dealing with two "men". I find it much more likely that Leviticus was concerned with preserving the active male role in sex in a patriarchal society. So it's likely that the dominant cultural NT translation was simply read back onto the Hebrew during the periods cited in the article.
Paul, on the other hand, had language that would have directly described pederasty available to him and so his use of arsenekotais is difficult. My guess is that he is using the word to combine the Grecko-Roman practises around him and the Levitical framework he was undoubtedly shaped by, to refer to all of the homosexuality activity he imagined, which would have been dominated by pederasty, but perhaps not alone.
So, what do we do if Leviticus is concerned with preserving the active male role in sex and Paul is condemning all homosexual activity he observes in his culture?
Well, rather than trying to fit biblical texts into modern constructs another approach is to understand the culturally bound interpretations of specific actions present in the text but at the same time look to the overarching trajectory that defines the biblical narrative to guide us as we continue to read Scripture in an evolving cultural landscape. I would argue that this narrative is one that leads to more openness, more inclusion and more understanding of the ways culture impacts and shapes us, including our sexuality.
In other words, this article probably has more to say about translation in the 1600-1900 era than it does about ancient meanings and yet, this in itself, is a good reminder that we can't outsource meaning to a translator. We all have to internalize the story of Jesus and then determine how best to live that ethic as we face new moments and constructs.
Christianity doesn't worship a fixed textual tradition it worships a living word, the Christ, who still guides us to love and include and expand our horizons today.

Пікірлер: 1 900
@pingpong2978
@pingpong2978 3 жыл бұрын
Comments be like: how dare you do your own research and not believe exactly like I believe. I won't listen la la la la la FALSE TEACHER la la la la"
@jeffyboy9657
@jeffyboy9657 3 жыл бұрын
2 Timothy 4:3, NLT: "For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear."
@NathanQueija
@NathanQueija 3 жыл бұрын
So, what's the conclusion? xD
@cryaboutit6448
@cryaboutit6448 3 жыл бұрын
Many people in this comment section make it obvious they did not listen to what he said in this video.
@dalex60
@dalex60
The bible is just a book, written by ancient men who had thoughts about a god and they wrote them down and unfortunately everyone took their thoughts way too seriously.
@myreek_
@myreek_ 4 жыл бұрын
Watching in 2020 and I love this very insightful
@charlessmoker2441
@charlessmoker2441 2 жыл бұрын
2 Timothy 4:3, NLT: "For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear." I've heard this following argument against the Bible and its authority: "The Bible is out of date for today's modern world." But..the real question is "Is the modern world out of date with the Bible?"
@crystalcrawford5098
@crystalcrawford5098 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video because there is so much confusing about the word homosexuality in the Bible to where families are torn apart, depression & suicide. Blessed are the pure in heart.
@CinnapopisGay
@CinnapopisGay 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so so much for this! I am a lesbian and me and my girlfriend are both religious but I have been having doubts whether or not God actually loves me or not and I know I didn’t choose to be gay but I don’t feel accepted anywhere in the religion but this is reassuring to hear so thank you again aaaa
@macmcclaran5188
@macmcclaran5188 3 жыл бұрын
You meant Naomi Wolf
@katara9
@katara9 Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for talking about this with so much intention. I deeply appreciate this, because I've had a lot of hurt surrounding this topic. I think the hardest part is looking for concise, logical explanations that aren't biased- because either side can be very emotionally charged. This was very down-the-middle, matter of fact, and never forgot the main intent, such as remembering to operate with love.
@giraffewhiskers2045
@giraffewhiskers2045 2 жыл бұрын
As a lesbian Christian idk why I find it so heartbreaking because I keep telling myself that I don’t need to date anyone to be happy all I need is Jesus but when I hear about how homosexuality is a sin and why it’s considered a sin I break down
@MusicalRaichu
@MusicalRaichu 3 жыл бұрын
i'm having trouble seeing how they say arsenokoites is based on the words in leviticus. there may be an implicit similarity of patriarchal values, but the word itself is only superficially similar. the problem is that it says not to lie with a male as you bed a woman. to combine "male" the object of one clause with the verb "bed" of a separate clause would create a misleading combination because "male" is not the object of "bed".
@HiFugly
@HiFugly 4 жыл бұрын
I like this video. Do you know where I can find more about people getting the sentence of death as opposed to actually being put to death, like you mentioned at
@Joe-po9xn
@Joe-po9xn 2 жыл бұрын
Just curious what other words Paul could have used, which were in more common parlance. I'm sure the Ancient Greeks and Romans had plenty of them, so if Paul was writing to a contemporary church, why didn't he just use one of those?
@TTVUnohana
@TTVUnohana 3 жыл бұрын
Check this out! As I mentioned earlier, the word “homosexual” was not used in a Biblical translation until the Revised Standard Version first printed it in 1946. In more recent editions of the RSV, they have changed the word, and now use the phrase “sexual perverts.” Prior to 1946, dating back to the 17th Century, we see the King James Version using the phrase, “abusers of themselves with mankind.” An appropriate translation.
@yungtortillachips
@yungtortillachips 3 жыл бұрын
The beat in the intro is fire
@robwells5753
@robwells5753 3 жыл бұрын
In Israel bookstores dont recognize our western bibles. An old Jewish teacher was in an American bible store the gal working in there said if you're looking to buy a Bible we have the KJV and its half off, he looks at her and say "at least". For real y'all
@joyfulspirit
@joyfulspirit 3 жыл бұрын
What about Matthew 19:4-5? In regards to marriage Jesus said: “Haven’t you read,” He replied, “that He who created them in the beginning made them male and female,” and He also said: “ For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh?
@nateedge2
@nateedge2 3 жыл бұрын
Watching in 2021, can't wait for this to be released!!
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