Having had my dad pass away with "whole life", I can assure you it does not pay out on top of the face value. Dave is 100% correct.

I didn't understand half the words they said.

I was an insurance agent for 10 years. Dave is right. When we sold Whole Life, it was a much bigger commission. Bottom line.

Caller: whole life Dave: sell the car

" you will still be a whole life agent and I will still be right." 🤣

Agent: "..insurance broker for about 35 years.." Dave: *SIGH* 🤣

Dave should have asked him what his commission was on a 250,000 20 year term policy versus a 250,000 whole life policy. That will explain why they sell whole life

I find it very interesting to hear Dave get challenged and respond on the fly. That's where you really realize he knows what he is talking about. He should do that more.

I think Dave can write the us budget in 2019 and get the country out of debt in 10 yrs

"It's the payday lender of the middle class." Sick burn!

Salesman worries about his own income , Dave trying to protect us from this predator .

I am an insurance broker myself. I started off in life insurance and within about 6 months I quit because of the things Dave is arguing. Once I saw it for myself and understood what this really was, I couldn’t do it anymore. Dave is 100% correct on everything he said

"If the policy is written carefully......." Why so carefully?

"We'll pay you the cash value when the policy is written accordingly" Well, there's a red flag right there.

I used to sell Life Insurance (Whole Life & Term, etc) and Dave is absolutely correct! This guy just called in to practice on his sale's pitch.

Dave is right. My dad passed away several years ago and we received the face value and NOT anything on top of that. Whole life is a bad investment.

This caller is mad because he’s cover had been blown!

This guy just knows enough insurance words to sell stuff. Hahahah I sell life insurance and I agree with Dave.

I love the confidence in this caller. And I'm glad DR let someone finish talking before he hung up on him.

“I can argue with you like I can argue with a brick” that line had me laughing 😂

We need more open debates like this. If Daves ideas are sound which i think they are. Then hold them up to scrutiny and see if they prevail. Debate like this is healthy and educational. 👌

A paid off home mortgage is taking the place of BMW as the new status symbol ❤️

“Whole life is the pay day lender to the middle class.” - Dave Ramsey

The guy on the line sounds like a con artist.

You know you watch alot of Ramsey videos when you know a rerun from like 4 years ago. Still a good video.

The caller was a door to door vacuum seller back in the day.

This was a heated debate but it was nice to see that it was civil throughout - no personal attacks etc. Also for being wrong, the guy did a great job going up against DRam and articulating his argument.

"I'd like to either clarify with you, or maybe get some clarity" 😂😂

He's angry because his little cash-cow is being exposed for what it is

Who calls the Dave Ramsey Show to argue with him?!?! 😳 It’s his show! My mind is blown 🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️

This is legendary

Quite frankly, if there's a product with THAT many "circumstances" to get your money... it's probably a bad product.

I am a licensed insurance agent in the state of California for the past 14 years. I am more than qualified to judge on this debate. Everything Dave Ramsey says is the truth; this shyster who crawled out of some hole in the ground on the East Coast somewhere needs to go back into that hole.

That's how you end a phone call with a shady salesman right there.

Dave is spot on. My father had a whole life policy on my kids for 18yrs and when we tried to cash them out to help get my kids a car. It didn’t pay out anything close to its presumptive value.

LESSON: NEVER EVER TRY TO SELL A ROLLS-ROYCE TO A BICYCLE CUSTOMER.

I can't say what they do now. However, I can say that I had a relative that had a (paid up) whole-life policy for many decades, and that relative's estate received several times the face value of the policy when the relative died.

I don't agree with everything Dave says but I am completely on board with him on this one.

One of the best calls Dave has ever taken. I enjoy watching this one every few years haha!

“If the policy is written correctly” : unfortunately your policy wasn’t written correctly.

I vote Dave Ramsey for president. ..make America great again

dave 1 - salesman 0

I was a licensed insurance agent in FL for about two years (my license lapsed but I am about to get into it again). The insurance agent is correct that there is a way to get both the cash value and the face value at the same time. This can be done by adding a rider to the insurance policy. Of course, it isn't worth it. First, you have to pay more for the rider, second, as Dave points out, MATH shows that investing in growth stock mutual funds is vastly superior to the return of the cash value of a whole life policy. Mathematically, the best thing to do is to buy term and invest the difference. So, as someone who has been a life insurance agent, I am telling you that Dave is right about this. I've never sold a whole life policy, and people who I have spoken with about life insurance were appalled when I explained to them why whole life is not a good product. There are some niche situations where someone might make use of whole life, but in each of those circumstances, there are better alternatives. So, the agent that called into Dave's show is simply wrong. The math is on Dave's side. The advice he is giving on life insurance is dead on. The only disagreement I may have with Dave is that there are times I'd recommend 30 year term over 15 or 20 years (although 15 to 20 year term is sufficient for most people). P.S. I don't like annuities either.

Showing a ray of light to an absolutely blind person!! He'll keep calling everything 'dark' and pitch black. Can't believe people listen to this guy who is only pushing his opinion on one thing without even willing to listen to the other person. Good luck Dave Ramsey's followers. :)

“At the end of the day You’ll still be a whole life agent and I’ll still be right.” 😂

This is an oldie but a goodie. Old time listeners will know

Banks buy whole life insurance. It’s called BOLI. Bank Owned Life Insurance. Rothchild and Vanderbilt both used Whole Life Insurance to pay for business deals when the Great Depression hit. The key is to getting a High Cash Value Life Insurance policy that is setup properly. Most whole life policies are not setup that way and that is where Dave gets stuck.

People think Dave Ramsey is such a hothead. This video is proof he has control and patience.

“I won’t get into the issue of performance” ok ha that’s all I needed to hear.

Dave has had these calls in the past and they never change Dave's mind

THANK YOU! This show is saving my family. Many blessings and good vibes.

Why do wealthy investors and huge companies buy whole life policies? Dave: "Because they're stupid" Really? It's not for the tax advantages and asset protection? Dave: "I'm right and you're wrong" 😄

"I'm not aAAAHH-guing with you. I've written these fah thuhty faaaaave yeeee-ahhhhs" East coaster... nuff said.

Rerun or not, I enjoyed listening.

“If a policy is arranged properly ...” ”when does that happen?” “🤔”

The fine print: "Guaranteed rate of return is dependent on the issuers ability to pay".

When I was studying for the life insurance exam (20 years ago), I was convinced that whole life was the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the American people. After I had 10 years in the business, I realized that there are some people that cannot understand anything more complicated than than a WL policy and that variable UL or a UL was not suitable or appropriate for them to address any permanent insurance needs. There are clients that have a permanent insurance need. They're usually wealthy and the policy can be designed to maintain an amount at risk (i.e.the "insurance" component) and keep the cost reasonable. For the average person, do what Dave said.

Disclaimer: Whole Life policies mentioned on this segment are underwritten by Soprano Waste Management Services, c/o Bada-Bing Enterprises, LLC. All rights reserved.

Another few tidbits which Dave doesn't tell folks. Years ago, people would be able to purchase whole life insurance at a net after tax cost cheaper than term insurance, but unfortunately that segment of the law was repealed by the Tax Code of 1986 (IRS Sec 264C). What he now fails to tell people is that anyone who is self-employed can buy life insurance w/ before tax dollars through a qualified retirement plan. How convenient Dave omits these facts. He also forgets to tell callers that when life insurance w/ a cash value component is redeemed, if the profit exceeds the basis it is taxable as ORDINARY INCOME. Dave suggests that it is taxable at capital gains rates which is MATERIALLY INACCURATE (IRS Section 72). The tax rates between capital gains and ordinary income are different.

Ok there is alot to unpack here between the two so let me get the basic stuff out of the way. Whole life policies are outdated and most companies have moved away from these policies since they are inefficient to say the least. The only people that actually want whole life policies are those who are older and have been told by their parents that whole life is the best. Not sure how that rumor got started but thats what I see very day. Yes insurance people get paid more for whole life rather than term du to what they are putting in allowing the company to take that premium and make more money for the company, and in return they pay the agent more. With that out of the way here is my 2 cents. Term is the only type of life insurance I would reccomend to anyone under the age of 50. Mainly due to the fact that it will save them money, allow them to convert to a preminent policy (NOT just whole life, but is an option if absolutley necissary), and have a life expectancy of later 70's. HOWEVER, anyone past the age of 50 is when a perminent policy may be a good fit, notice i said "maybe" and "perminent", not whole life. Whole life and perminent policies often get confused due to the name. Perminent policies now are typically invested in the S&P 500 to use as an investment vehivhle to grow the cash. That way it can eliminate the notion of an inneficient cash build up. However, if building cash is your main goal and the death benefit is just a cheryy on top then there is not reason to have a life insurance account, unless you are trying to protect from estate taxes or leave behind a legacy. Term policies typically only cover people at the latest until they are age 85, which looks pretty good. However, if you live past that age you are out of luck since most companies to not insure past that age and if they do you will pay an exorberate amount in premiums. Hence why I think that looking at a more perminent option past age 50 is a good option, but definetly not a requirment. The insurance agent came of a bit rude and I think He did not explain himself the best. Dave obviously knows what he is talking about. The one thing he dropped the ball on explaining is the death benefit for whole life. 99.9% of the time, Dave is correct in stating that the death benefit is only paid out and the cash goes back to the comany. The "right way to set it up" that the insurance dude was talking about is having the death benefit be a variable death benefit. This means you will get both, but most are not set up this way. And if they are, they aer typically not a whole life policy but rather a variable perminent policy. Every scenario for life insurance is differnt and I suggest talking to a planner who does not charge for their time to look over everything to see what is the best route to take.

I LOVE how Dave is so coooooool- no presure--- no anger --- cool as a cucumber --- He has lived the Truth.....PRINCIPLES are always the SAME

Can we all take a moment to enjoy how calm and collected Dave stays despite his growing irritation and the increasing hostility from the caller?

This is Russ Grand, the agent in the video w/ Dave. His logic is seriously compromised, and it has NOTHING to do w/ whole life being a good or bad product, agent commissions or return on money. If anyone wants to take this subject to the next level, feel free to engage here and I will respond to all inquiries.

When my dad passed it was a nightmare trying to work with New York life. They do not pay the full value it’s such a scam

Is very interested to hear an insurance agent on Dave Ramsey Show I wonder what other disagreement people would come on his show and argue about his statement

Insurance is not supposed to be an investment. END OF DISCUSSION.

Can this be a new segment? Debate Dave? Funny and cool to see both sides.

Instead of arguing the whole time, Dave should have told us how we could ensure that our policies are written the proper way. It may be the way very, very few are written, but it would’ve been helpful to know the lingo and what to look for. I personally don’t have whole life and I don’t plan on getting any, but for those who want it and think it’s better, whether it is or not, they would have benefited from learning how to have the policy written appropriately.

I have a new argument template: “You can think that (insert point) And I’ll still be right”

I forgot about this video. Two very strongly opinionated dudes going at it. Love it!

The whole life agent NEVER refutes the cost of the product, he always deflects to his next talking point.

There are times you should use a credit card. When you buy stuff online it is much safer to use a credit card. Just make sure you pay the card off when you get your statement.

I have had both whole life and term insurance on me and my wife. At the age of 30, I got my wife a $200,000 twenty year level term policy because we had kids at the time and it was very cheap. She did not work outside the home. I also had a $25,000 whole life policy that I kept paying on also that I got her at age 26. Both policies were about the same cost in terms of premium. The sad fact of the matter is that my wife got cancer at age 38 and had 48 different chemo's and numerous radiation treatments and was "in and out of remission" until she passed away at age 51. I tried a few times to get more insurance on her and was unable to get any more after she got cancer, so after 20 years of paying into my term insurance, albeit a small amount each year the insurance expired at the end of the term and I did not collect anything. The $25,000 whole life policy grew to be $44,000 and I was able to collect on it when she passed away. My case may be rare but I guess I was thinking that's what life insurance is for... rare cases of early death. I am now 58 1/2 years old and have whole life on me and much more term. I won't be cancelling any of it. I don't think it's the best advice to tell a 20, 30, 40 year old person to get 20 year level term insurance because if people end up in our situation and become uninsurable after the term then they have no insurance. Just my opinion but I think there may be others that are or have been in our situation.

Use insurance for insurance and various other investment methods for investing. Never mix both of them, else the chances of you getting swindled is high.

Wooohooo! That's some fire! I love a civil but heated debate.

Agreed, I have had term insurance for all of my early working life. More money then went into reducing debt, and increasing wealth. At 60, I’m debt free and ‘self insured’.

Typical how "whole life" polices are always defended by someone who sells them I have never once heard a single independent financial adviser tell someone to buy a "Whole life" policy.

Even though I disagree with Dave on some of his methods, I agree with him 100% on this. My mother passed away and she had both, term and full or whole. Term is the way to go. I will never ever forget that battle as long as I live. I despise the insurance brokers pushing this.

He's telling the CEO of a multimillion dollar company that CEOs would know more than average person 😅

Life Insurance is income replacement insurance. There are many investment/savings options better than whole life. Term insurance is generally the best to protect others against loss of the income earner. Decreasing term.

More likely to out live your term policy, that's why it's cheaper. Then, it's extremely expensive to get another one. Term is a gamble. In term, all of your premiums are 90% profit for insurance companies. They make more money with term insurance since they only pay out 1/100 claims Whole, is guaranteed until age 100. Cash value is all the premiums you've paid + interest. You can either cash out or sell it to settlement company for more. At age 100, you receive face amount, which is premiums paid + interest that have accumulated. Your premiums pay the face value. The company only makes money off the additional interest, not your premiums. .

As a life insurance agent, I see nothing wrong with term insurance!

Another IRRITATING East Coast New Yawker who got schooled

Here is one explanation whole life agents use, you get the cash value as part of the death benefit. This means you dont get the cash value and the death benefit. Also as dave mentioned quickly , option B policies you get both. You just have to pay for it. Meaning you get a little more insurance (about what the cash value account has in it) for a little more cost. Many families end up with way to little life insurance and fall way short of taking care of the family ,house and kids, because they cant afford the propper amount of coverage because the cost it too high for whole life. So for every reason term life is better, cv is junk

Life insurance was not ment to be an investment. It's ment to be a protection.

Props for keeping your cool Dave

people need to understand whole life is term insurance that matures at age 100 and builds equity in the policy known as cash value which is the portion of the death benefit thats made available via loan not a separate savings which is what most people believe because its how its sold using the infinite banking concept and theirs also a huge difference between borrowing your own money and borrowing against your policy

1:58 "I won't get into the issue of performance." Yeah, I bet you won't, because the performance sucks.

This was hilariously awesome!!a brick will still be a brick..😂

All the thumbs down are from Whole life agents

Debt is Wealth if you know how to use it, most people don’t.

The cash value of my whole life is added to the base value of the policy. My whole life was bought by my father when I was a child. It accrues at about 4.8%, my father paid what he knew was a high price for about 10 years. Then he lowered his payments. Today at age 57 the intrest pays for the insurance, but I put $15 per month in anyway. If it ever eats away at the increasing principal, I will cash out. Now he might have done better with government bonds, but it has not been a terrible product.

For a small portion of the population, whole life insurance can be a good idea. Usually these are high(ish) net worth families with complicated estate planning needs. To say that they are never a good idea is ignorant. I will add that this is a situation where one piece of Dave's advice is particularly important though: Never invest in something you do not understand!

Thanks for reposting this 👌New listeners will appreciate it for sure. Thanks Dave

The reason people back out of whole life is because they don’t want to spend the amount of money on premium but if you have the money to pay for a guaranteed death benefit for the rest of your life, in the end you will accumulate cash value and you will receive it.

Insurance agents make WAY MORE commission on whole life!

I do not trust people who talk this fast.

Thank you for having this conversation. I have term policies for myself and my son.

He sounds like a short man wearing a oversized suit trying to sell a used car

Dave you should have quoted that guy the difference in return if that 20x+ multiple money amount were instead invested in a simple “moderate growth” fund over the 20/30yrs the policy was paid into by customer...even at a mediocre 10% return the difference actually “left to your family” at death is craziness compared to “whole life” returns...even if said customer cashed it in before dying