Interesting that Heather's design is often the only redeeming element of the films to which she's contributed. Put another way, the ONLY reason I would watch some of these films (not all, but most) would be to see her design. Hopefully she will have opportunities to work on better projects in the future!

Wow. That was a MASTERCLASS Quality Video for FREE....Thank you Heather Pollington is at the top of the Hollywood game. Her work is amazing. The Symbolic World is now reaching into Hollywood. 😆 🙏

Thank you Pagaue and thank you Heather for all the awesome work. This is organic 100% gmo free food for thought!

38:57 "Technology defines art" This is the same reason why for example a violin sonata will sound different (and will be written differently) than a flute or cello sonata. The term "material cause" was coined by Aristotle to describe this.

As someone who is an Orthodox graphic designer/filmmaker, this was super intriguing! thank you!

This was like going to an amazing field trip in the spring of the year with all of your high school classmates! So interesting and insightful and meeting Heather was like meeting someone you never knew existed before. I’m not explaining myself very well, but I’m grateful for the two of you and I think God has blessed The Symbolic World with a true treasure in Heather, both as a person as well as her brilliant, stunning talent.

That was wonderful. The new logo is so beautiful. I think one reason that churches are reluctant to invest in hiring artists and designers is that we're not confident that the person we hire will actually give us what we're looking for or even something that we like. We just see so much ugly and sub-par and even degenerate art around us that it feels like if we hire an artist they'll probably want to take the project in their own direction and we'll have to negotiate with them and end up having spent money on something we're ambivalent about. I say that as an architect where some of the same dynamic is at play. Examples like these from Heather's work really help to open up eyes to the possibility of how a skilled designer can take your idea and make it something that is even better than you were hoping.

Fascinating, thanks. One of the most interesting interviews yet!!

This is incredible.Thank you Jonathan and Heather.

Jonathan: that tree was fantastic Her: that tree was the only part I didn’t do Jonathan: 😬 (All jokes aside she’s amazing and I’m loving this!)

Absolutely fantastic chat. Thanks for sharing and I love your work!

Brilliant video, thanks, particularly for the 2nd half. The new logo and title all make sense now.

Wonderful conversation, Jonathan. So great to see these two worlds combined!

Thanks Jonathan, thanks Heather! I saved this video for a time when I could take time to sit and watch. You all have hit the nail on the head about how I watch films. I love and appreciate the design work that goes into these films. Sometimes I find the behind the scenes more interesting than the film… like del Toro’s Pinnochio! What she said about the Bond in the bunker, I‘m so glad she said that because I‘m usually the only one thinking, „this reminds me of…“ Vindication!😅

Excellent insights on storytelling hierarchies. Thank you for this discussion, as always.

I really love the gold circle defining the attentional span, landing on the dragon as that which is relevant and in the center of our attention when we are confronted with a predator, but also the branch breaking in through the metal circle from the "other world" reminding us that there is always more vitality to see. It's also probably not coincidental that the dragon's tail has a root-like brambly quality, harkening to the tree. The gold of the circle gives it nobility and solidity, while, if you look closely enough, you see the mosaic pieces chipped, suggesting to me that the circle is subject to change. Heather is brilliant!

Enjoyed this, thanks!

Thank you so much for this interview! I feel so inspired. I can't wait for Snow White to come out. I will probably buy more than one copy so that I can tear pages out and frame them :)

This was fantastic. As another said, this was a masterclass. We need more online courses teaching this kind of stuff. I disagree with the comments on Dune and The Chosen. The story always trumps the visuals. If the story is lacking (as in Dune), I don't care about the visuals. The visuals can't overcome a bad story. (Not that Dune was bad, but for me it was lacking.) Movies like that bore me and irritate me. If the story is fantastic (as in The Chosen), I can forgive the lack in visuals. Of course, the best is when the two come together to tell a story. You can watch a play with NO visuals and if the story is compelling, you don't even care. I say that as an artist. Jonathan, your channel and website have become popular even though you knew that the visuals needed work. Perfect visuals without the content, however, wouldn't have created a following.

Thanks

Fascinating and inspiring! Thank you, Jonathan and Heather.

I miss the artistry of older films, even fake rocks came alive. Its hard to spot the hierarchy. Love the dragon. Does Heather use VR or AR to prearrange the settings she works in? Medieval stories such the titan battles are really hard to make relevant to todays audience, yet true to the time period. Thank you for this very interesting and inspiring topic!

13:36 - simulacra!

She's exteremely good at what she does.

Great topic. Interesting guest. Thanks.

Cappella Palatina in Palermo has tons of typography reference and also Palace of the Normans

Enjoyed this episode so much! But why the focus on the dragon instead of the tree?

This is so amazing!

What are worthwhile movies for someone who has never perused them very much, besides star wars and lotr?

Jonathan, thank you for elucidated my uneasiness with The Chosen! Always felt off with it, especially the Roman soldiers uniform

excellent guest! Heather's comments on setting construction in film, and human perception was well spoken towards

Wow!

Good to learn Jonthan has finally seen Dune :D

52:00 Jonathan’s use of the word ‘desire’ is so key. Desire/longing/belonging.

I watch the backgrounds. My favorite was in the "Milagro Beanfield War". The heroes are having an intense discussion with a store owner. In the background an older woman is picking bottles off a high shelf and looking at them. She is not the object of the scene but is background. When she picks up a bottle of Newman's Own salad dressing, the owner of the store breaks from the discussion with the heroes and tells the woman she doesn't want that one! It's a tiny moment in time when the director of the film tweeks the nose of his longtime friend. I laughed in a silent movie theater full of people - A wonderful moment in a lovely film I was fortunate to be part of..

Mind you, for Central European this is true end of the world stuff - Hollywood artist combined with Orthodox art. Just the kind of monster we need these days 🙏

Bony pageau refused the naked Adam. Anathema.

At my church

The Lord of the Rings to King Kong was a terrible example. Peter Jackson still had superiors to answers to, which is why there's an extended cut in the first place. Additionally, Peter Jackson became more and more comfortable with CGI with each entry. A far superior contrast would have been Martin Campbell's Quantum of Solace vs Green Lantern. Oddly enough, he has directed sci-fi before. Film hierarchy is still alive, otherwise no movie would get made. What has been going the way of the dodo are directors, producers, writers, etc. who are serious about their craft. I'm skeptical on Dune. Villeneuve said he wanted to make it look as Frank Hebert envisioned, but then he casts Timothée Chalamet as Paul Atreides, which I can't help but feel was done in order to get Zoomer women's butts in seats. Lastly, out of all the films she could have cited, why did Pollington choose Maleficent 💩? That movie sucks.

I find Dune 2022 really bland and boring in visual terms. Things are grey and square, the suits look banal, the shields look silly. Also, the actors make the visuals blander with their monotone delivery. Unless Jonathan is referring to Lynch's Dune which is a bad adaptation but visually striking

Nothing compares to Norman Sicily, that’s for sure.

I wonder if I'll ever end up working with you guys. Maybe if I can get moving along faster at my artistic pursuits. I've had some pretty weird visions that would make for great films. I'll share one... I imagined that I used to be an angel in Heaven, but when the fall happened, I went into a rage at all the fallen angels, slashing at them with a flaming sword. But, as the flames died out, I found my hands and wings charred from the flames, and found myself cast out into the same pit as all the fallen angels, who are all screaming in a deeply resentful agony, as if Paradise had been ripped from them, filled with a horrific combination of despair and rage at God. I saw myself as ashamed that I had lost my temper, though this image stopped flowing after this point. It was also kind of crazy how I pictured the fall happening - it was like a shadow was spreading like a rumor through Paradise, and all of these beautiful angels were just somehow darkened a little, whispering to one another. Underlying this was a sort of youthfulness of both myself and the fallen angels that I encountered. I've also had a strong vision of what I understood to be an angel that wasn't fallen - bright dark purple skin, golden glowing eyes, but where the whites of her eyes were black, as if it was an inversion of what people are. But it wasn't a scary image. Though, this allowed me to get a perception of how scary fallen angels might be when they appear so brilliant but are also corrupted. I'm not schizophrenic or anything like that... these things usually happen just in the shower, sleeping or when listening to powerful music like Bach. A couple esoteric sources I'm aware of treat angels as beings that go in the opposite direction of us mortals, where they start out in this harmonious, heavenly perfected state, but gradually shrink in their level of consciousness. To me, this would speak to the nature of the image of these eyes that had glowing golden irises and black "whites" of the eye, literally seeing reality with eyes that are the opposite of our own. It also seems to me that such eyes are what are needed to see the full hierarchy of reality all at once, from the light to darkness. I don't put too high of weight on the reality of these dreams and experiences in terms of trying to analyze them or interpret them literally (nor do I rule them out, because they seem to reflect direct experience), but the way I experience these things creates imagery that is so foreign and profound that at this point I really need to get it out of me in art, narrative and music, burning inside of me. Can you imagine if people with top level taste and talent did a movie for Paradise Lost? People who truly appreciate the poetry, music, and condensed all of it?

I would love to have a symbolic break down of the new logo, Jonathan. Im sure im not the only one :)

It’s a cool design but I miss the very obvious Orthodox icons.

Us Patreon supporters who got the breakdown and reveal of the new logo almost 2 years ago😎😎😎

CGI is so obviously fake to me that I can't watch those films, it's impossible to me to believe the stories. I don't understand how people can watch such films.

Sicily mediavel typography reference yourguidetoitaly.com/slowitaly/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/palatine-chapel-palermo-2b.jpg