This! Yeah i like this, i was thinking something with magnets but without it being a motor

Definitely agree! That would be vastly superior. You could get old hard disk magnets, probably fairly cheaply.

expensive

Instead of copper, aluminum, cheaper, also won't rust, and it could also serve as the container. A large aluminum pot for example.

Wouldn't the repeatedly heating up and cooling down of the magnets eventually make them loose their magnetic field strength?

YOOOO you watch this channel too!?

Thanks, Ben. Luckily lots of smart people watch this channel and I learn a lot from them : - )

Of course you're here 😊👋

Robert Murray Smith has made videos for what is called a friction "frenette" Where oil is heated between a rotating cylinder and another cylinder Budget option

​@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 If you want to try inductive heating, I think you could affix diametrically magnetized neodymium ring magnets to an aluminum shaft, place this coaxially inside aluminum tubing using stainless steel bearings (to avoid galvanic corrosion due to current flow), and place the whole assembly inside PVC pipe where the water will actually flow. This will keep the mechanism sealed away from the water and the aluminum tubing should work as an optimal shorting ring since the magnet is fully enclosed by it. To maximize the coupling you want the gap between the magnets and the aluminum to be as small as possible. Magnet strength, number of magnets/length of shaft and gap clearance can be adjusted to optimize the load for the drive mechanism. Because the bearings are also in contact with the aluminum pipe, their waste heat should also transfer to the water.

I agree.

A very similar device that's actually designed to have water as the working fluid and for converting mechanical power into heat is a _water brake dynamometer._

I suggested one of the drums, then realized the whole transmission and tq converter. Fill with water, turn the input, lock the output. Water to water intercooler through the trans cooler lines. Gave ya a thumbs up for getting here first lol

That was going to be my suggestion, they usually have an excess of heat and its already all done for you. You could have multiple and tap off the oil.

Worth a shot, even if the heating is not satisfactory, it could be used as a progressively adjustable brake by varying the fluid level in the converter

A compressor is a good idea as an answer to the question of how to convert mechanical energy into thermal energy! When air is compressed, it becomes warm. This compressed air is passed through a long spiral tube surrounded by water. ==> Water gets warm too.

How about the mechanical drive from the windmill to drive the heat pump compressor ?

@@dg0mg Good point I forgot that would happen.

@@stevewilliams2498 That's what I said?

That particulate is why I'd be concerned about this ever being used to heat water for drinking. Using electricity to do the boiling will likely have a much lower energy loss, if you do the heating beside the house, and transfer the electricity over a distance it should be ok and space shouldn't be as much of an issue. The earth tends to be a pretty good insulator too, so such a boiler could be next to the house, under a paddock, or pretty much anywhere.

Yeah a heat pump is ideal here. Could also be an air conditioner in the summer with just a couple extra valves. A car AC compressor as proof of concept and if it works well you can look for a commercial shaft-driven refrigerant pump surplus/craigslist etc.

SHEAR!!!

Thank you - I will

@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pLl-nqVhp77SeIE.html i don't know if you can manufacture something like this in your workshop but the computer voice explains it good and the animation makes sense immediatly!

​​@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 This is the way. You just need to direct your energy to move the water. Restricting water movement will build you the proper torque to regulate the system to your suitable rpms. I would try using a submerged pump and recirculating circuit. The same pump can also supply you the water for consumption.

in an ICE that just makes no sense when 1/3rd the energy is getting dumped out the cooling system, and the other 1/3rd being dumped out the exhaust pipe...

​@paradiselost9946 your not understanding fully.

I'd explain it, but believe it would be a waste of my time as you probably would not comprehend. U pićku materinu, bože pomozite ovim budalama ❤

@@paradiselost9946 True, don't car heaters generally involve heat-exchanging with the radiator heat?

I posted another comment about this, but I think a car AC unit is an interesting option. They are designed to use the engine's rotation to power the compressor, which means you wouldn't need an electric generator.

​@@MrAwawe Yeah it's probably worth a try. I'm not sure how long you can get a compressor to last, but you definitely need to pay attention to the oil and making sure there's enough, and that it can make it's way home to the pump. You really need to turn them pretty fast to work well, like 1500+ rpm (they are always overdriven by the crank pulley).

I had a similar thought in terms of using a heat pump but think it does not need the complication of converting the energy to electricity to then power the pump(s) and instead they could be direct drive, requires some gearing and either there would need to be a way regulate the stored heat so that if the pump worked continuously it was not a problem or a way to disconnect or regulate the pump once the required temperature is reach which admittedly would be more easily achieved with electrical regulation rather than mechanical.

Pumping fluid around needs pumps, and they have friction with the vanes / impeller / whatever, and the liquid. You can't avoid wear. Heat pipes AFAIK are used mostly in computers where you need to shift a lot of heat quickly in a small space, do there exist great big ones? Since this is for domestic bulk heating, just using chunks of metal, ideally copper, seems better. Heat pipes are for when removing heat is the priority.

yeah sounds like a good idea. however a fridge only has a max of 2kw? maybe even only about 200watt. house heating will easily use 10kw. so you would need 50 old fridges.

@@schirmcharmemelone a resistiv electric water heater is 2kW yes. But a heat pump will use a third of that. A 200 W compressor from a fridge will fit the windmill :)

Fridges are only designed to run for a few minutes a few times per day. So don't expect that the compressor will survive for long

@@schirmcharmemelone you don't use a domestic fridge. You use a unit from a butchers cold room. These usually have a belt drive from a motor .

100% if you want to be efficient, don't create heat, just move it from somewhere else

His current design isn't too far off from being one other than having plates touch. It just needs holes in the rotor plates as initiation sites for cavitation, correct spacing, and perhaps more RPMs.

Thanks you. Good idea. (I wasn't aware - so much to learn!)

I was thinking the same thing. It would be interesting to know whether the friction method is more or less efficient than the electric method. I think the electric method would have more benefits though - no mechanical link needed between the windmill and the heater, minimal wearing of parts, ability to heat water directly without heating oil and using a heat exchanger, ability to use alternate energy sources other than wind, and so on. The only drawback would perhaps be the cost of the generator/alternator, but then you'd need less plasma cut metal plate so maybe it would work out much the same?

Theoretically, the friction method is more efficient because all of the energy is converted to heat. With an alternator, the alternator is going to lose efficiency due to friction and that can't be submerged as easily, reliably and cheaply as just some friction plates to be able to sink the alternator heat back into the system as useful heat. The nice thing about the friction method though is that 100% of the energy put into the system is put into heating the fluid. Then it just becomes a question of if the fluid can handle more heat, if your insulation can retain it, or if you can actually make use of it with whatever the secondary system is. But all of those variables would remain the same no matter what method he uses.

@@doggfite Some good points there. Alternator friction would surely just be in it's bearings, the friction method in the video would need bearings in the final design too. Thinking of the bigger picture my idea was that there will also be a fair bit of energy lost in any angle drive at the top of the windmill whereas an alternator could be mounted up there meaning no need for those losses, just minor losses in the electrical transmission. Braking system is another story!

@@doggfite You'd need a bearing up on the windmill blade though which would be the same whether you're electric or friction. After that you might get a small amount of air resistance on the friction shaft and likely a lot of noise which both reduce the amount of energy that can be converted to heat, and which are both not losses in the electric version. I really think it would be a pretty close call.

direct heating with friction... all the energy contributes to heating. using an alternator... the amount of energy appearing in the resistive load is a ratio between the load and the generator resistance. at best, you get 50% of the applied power into the resistor, when the resistances are equal. the generator will absorb the other 50%. yes, the turbine will deliver twice the power as what you read in the load resistor... if you just short the generator, all the energy appears as heat in its windings. the current will be limited by the wire sizes and magnetic fields... if the load is higher in resistance, more heat appears in the resistor than the windings, but you cant "push" as much power through that resistor, that circuit, anymore, as the current is limited... you deliver less power overall. so rewind an alternator with 3/16 copper pipe, shorting each phase to itself... no worry about star or delta... and tickle the field windings with a voltage appropriate to wind speed (tip speed ratio, actually...) so as to apply a load that is directly proportional to the energy in the wind. which increases on the cube of the velocity. yes, that needs an external power supply. easier to make a retarder... permanent magnets, conductive disc, variable airgap. use a centrifugal governor to control the airgap and the braking force... conductor gets stinking hot. add coolant... you need a load that increases as the wind picks up. pumps, generators, whatever... they all have a fixed amount of power required to simply do what they do. a wind mill takes so much to grind grain, to lift a plunger full of water on every revolution, to deliver so many amps at so many watts into a load... and thats it. they do it faster, it takes the same amount of power to do what they do. yet as they speed up, the wind applies more power, produces more torque... so we have to feather the blades or apply brakes! rather than USE it, we LET IT SLIP PAST. and to make grid-connectable AC voltage at 50/60 hz from the wind directly? HA! that simply doesnt work. at all. if all you do is make heat, you can "hold the brake on" harder, and that just makes more heat! can limit blade speeds, stay in the peak of their efficiency curves... the temperature reached is a matter of how many watts are delivered and how many are dissipated in any given volume... obviously as wind speed picks up things get hotter... much hotter! what can you do with hot water? hmmmmmm.... steam turbines? hot showers? i need a shower... pong.

why would it be better though? They both work, but one would cost a lot more than the other, surely?

@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 way less maintenance. no wear. you can make anything a magnet with an electronic magnet, all you need is a copper coil and some DC electricity. just imagine the rust water you will generate. and then the iron is in water all the time. i watched all your videos in the span of a few weeks and saw all your projects rust away after a few winter. insane how rusty stuff becomes in your area so close to the sea! Another alternative would be to use break disks. They are designed for this task. But if you ever looked at the wheels of a used car all that dark brown dust is the old break disk turned into a powder! do we really want to fine grind so much metal into dust? From the amount of comments suggesting magnet heater. you surely can ask some high performance nerd from the comments to calculate all the hard stuff for you :P you just need to ask in a video nicely :P

@@schirmcharmemelone He said in the video he was planning to fill the container with oil so as to avoid the rust, and use a heat exchanger to transfer the heat across to clean water

@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 you would not need to use a heat exchanger. Just a spinning plate of magnets and a metal plate in the tank. No plates rubbing and deteriorating in the water.

​@@Berkeloid0The problem isn't rust, but the basic steel against steel friction that will occur. It's an interesting experiment but those plates would be larger, more expensive, and the forces between them much greater in the actual machine.

Oh man! More things to think about : - )

the fact that compressed air does cool down is what makes it inefficient at producing power. back when it was a big thing, they made "reheaters"... kerosene burners in sealed boxes in the airline itself... bring it back up to the temperature it was compressed to, or higher even... when its hot, it wants to expand. when its cold... it wants to contract. its trying to absorb heat, not release it. yes, its a bit of a brain bender ;) if you have a certain volume at a given pressure, and expand it to twice the volume... if it started at ambient, and cools down... the resulting pressure will be less than half... if its hot and cools to ambient as its expanded, it will be at more than half the pressure... and still be capable of performing useful work. once you dispose of the heat of compression, you have to replace it to get that compressed air back to the same conditions it started at. i forget all the terms... isothermic, isobaric, adiabatic... still, they can heat or cool, thats all AC, fridges, and heatpumps are doing... they work fine when the input is constant, they can be tweaked to run at ideal efficiency... that is, they run at a constant speed... the other issue with an air compressor, or wind power in general, is that it takes a certain amount of torque to simply rotate through a cycle. once the turbine can deliver that torque... the compressor cant harness any more power. it always takes the same power to turn over, yet the wind delivers power increasing at the cube of the velocity... twice the speed isnt twice the power, its four times the power! so you need a compressor that ideally can deliver four times as much at twice the RPM. that can vary its delivery rate... not its pressure, its delivery rate... on a cubic ratio to RPM.... can do that really easily with brakes...friction or eddy current types...

@@paradiselost9946 It's the compression part where most power is lost as heat, which when generating heat is the main goal, not a deal breaker exactly. Compressing air should typically generate about as much heat as doing it by friction, but without having to deal with all that friction, and the heat in form of hot compressed air, so no need fro a separate pump. I consider the very small part of the input energy that the cooled down compressed air represents is more a nice and useful bonus, than a great improvement of thermodynamic efficiency of the system. But, it is technically possible to extract around half of that energy as mechanical energy, in a single stage adiabatic expansion, from say 10 bar. Multiple stages with heating in between just from ambient temperature can increase that further. Not easy, but possible, and it has been considered easier to either burn more stuff to generate more power to produce more compressed air, and or burn stuff to add more heat to the compressed air to increase output.

bacon grease has a good solidus to liquidus temperature range (approx 85 to 130F) and can be sealed in mason jars in a holding thank. also you can enjoy a lot of BLTs while you amass the grease.

Thanks - I'll investigate..

Is this modern or ancient Mercedes tech. Mercedes diesel... 80's then?

Thanks - yes, I have those too, plus a refrigerator drier, and it's still not enough sometimes : - (

Perhaps living in Ireland is the problem?!

They are a bit of an investment and not easily made at home, I would assume.

@@makingitthrough190 They're basically compressors, which are basically pumps. You could knock something up at home, and even if it's not optimal, just having a heat pump at all makes it easy to be super-efficient. Getting a professional system is an option and then you'd be able to use it on normal mains electricity as well, the DIY system would also have to supply electricity to it. If you're making it cheaply out of scrap, though, it seems like as good a use of your time as any. You'd put a loop of piping down in the ground, or else just use air-sourced to start with. Then once it's installed, you leave that, and only tinker with the moving parts indoors and above-ground.

and I still use them for my railway wagons

Huge rpm though?

Thanks Abigail - I'm just working on another to try to make it clearer

Also, this method does not use friction between plates which causes water to look like diarrhea. You don't need an intermediate heat exchanger to isolate dirty water from the house water pipes. You get clean, pure steam. Also, since there's no direct contact with inelastic materials, you don't need instantaneous high torque to start this type of heater.

I think this could work too - thanks. But I guess it would need higher speeds. I'll have a think...

But I imagine you had much higher rpm?

Thank you Keith - the cnc plasma cutter uses a LOT of air though..

@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 "Thank you Keith - the cnc plasma cutter uses a LOT of air though.." Yeah, you might need to scale up the desiccant system a *LOT* to work with a high-volume air need. ...but that might still be worth it to have as much perfectly dry air as you need for very little power draw.

It was a scam

Dig a big hole. fill it with insulating layer of styrofoam etc. then a big layer of sand to keep heat. then the water tank with the friction heater inside.

Wow!