Angular displacement and psychological terminology. This was a deep dive. I've not watched any content from this channel before and this was incredible. Totally unexpected amount of detail and deconstruction of gear. Sub'd.

Well done as always. Next up: the UL stump review.

"Sit on your z rest pad for a little bit and be in a time out and see if you're projecting." Liked and subscribed.

Your reviews and comparison vids are probably the best I’ve seen. Your analysis gives info I don’t even think about, but should be aware of. Thanks for your detailed efforts!

THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!!! I have been desperately searching for EXACTLY this information. You're the best! Going now to check out all your other videos!!

This is everything and more. I feel so supported having watched this, as if I got to try the chairs in the store, and I haven’t so much as seen either of these chairs in real life yet. Thank you for answering all my questions and then some. I also appreciate your subtle humor. It’s the kind that makes one smirk.

I'm a engineer! You talk my language! Subscribed! Great work!

Amazing breakdown! I would have never thought this level of detail would be interesting to me but it really had me thinking about how to assess what I like or don't like! Wish you could evaluate every decision in my life for me!

Such a great breakdown. My camp chair literally broke a week ago so here I am comparing new chairs. Picked up a sub! Thanks

What an excellent review...extremely thorough with real-world practicalities explored in detail. A very pleasant surprise. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

I just discovered your channel. Great description on the chair. Can't wait to see other reviews. Subscribed!

Very detailed review! Much appreciated. So many reviews on KZfaq are not well thought out at all. Yours however was well thought out, well executed, detailed, and very funny. Kudos to you!

Just watched this after buying a very cheap chair £15 in the same style to try out as I have back issues, I figured I could modify it using the plastic block inserts to rebuild it, lighter, better, etc. Your review just blew me away with the in-depth aspect of chair ergonomics and component weight values, giving me a lot to think about measure and check. Great work and analysis, thank you so much and I will be checking out your channel further

The nerdiest backpack equipment review ever! Love it!

Have had my time out to review your delivery of information on my future Chair. You must have some cheeeeky Aussie Bits in you. Many thanks for the entertainment and data that you have delivered. Much appreciated from LIsmore NSW Australia "Good on ya mate"

These videos have been great! Informative, charming, and funny. Keep em coming!

I’ve never know Ryan to be funny. This is great.

I have an aluminum frame canoe chair from LL Bean, purchased almost 40 years ago. It only folds in half so it's not small, and only sits several inches high. When I was younger it was no big deal to get out of. A few years ago my wife bought me the Helinox. I'd seen it before but too pricey for me, but it was a gift! No turning back now, I'll leave behind whatever it takes to bring the chair. They make a separate rubber foot/mesh pad that goes on the feet and allows you to sit it on sand, soft dirt, anywhere and it's very stable. Even more extra weight obviously. Love the review and the style!

Holy shit, this has been one of the best reviews i have watched. Its rare a video keeps my attention 100%, but this uhhh.. chair review did hahah. Thanks so much!

That intro had me laughing out loud. Literally. You earned a subscriber!

This was a great review and funny too. Saw this video after I purchased both chairs on the REI website during the recent anniversary sale. The REI chair won after my 5 minute field testing of both chairs. The Helinox chair put pressure on the sides of both my legs in a very uncomfortable manner. I wanted out of the Helinox very quickly. The spreadsheet comment really hit home. The REI chair is 15.75 oz on my scale and now on my spreadsheet.

Wow...amazing review...all the topics you hit were questions I didnt know to ask, but are really important. REI needs to tell all their employees to watch your gear review videos...SUBSCRIBED...

This was a great video! So much information is definitely helping me pick my first UL Camp Chair!

This is the best review I think I've ever seen. Well done, new sub!

Yes! Thank you for making this video. I had just decided to pick up a Helinox but ran into the REI Air when checking out the sale. And there were no videos on it! I picked up the Air because the price/weight/comfort all checked out and I thought my first KZfaq video might need to be a review but there is no need now. Thank you 😊. One trip down and I am liking the REI Air!! ⏰

Very thorough and helpful review. Helped me decide between the two.

Great comparison! I am going with the Helinox, because I do like to stretch my legs out but primarily because of the folded dimensions, when I am bike touring everything goes in panniers, I dont have the vertical space in the panniers that I do in my backpack. Also, great idea on using DCF and carbon.

I'm a mechanical engineer and the gears were already turning on converting my poles into a frame and then you mentioned at the end. ;)

I bought the REI Flexlite Air about a year ago. But I wish I had spent a little bit more money and got the Helinox Zero. The REI chair is great, nothing wrong with the quality, it's just not as comfortable as a Helinox. Plus when I sit down, the REI chair feels like it wants to fall over backwards.

My Zero is 3 yrs. old, been set up and taken down maybe 400 times, mostly in the woods. Two minor fabric repairs. Love it, wouldn't even weekend without it.

Thank you for this! Very informative, and as always love your humor!

Okay so I didn't expect a full on lesson when I clicked on this video, but I appreciate it thoroughly. Also, you're really funny. Love the sense of humour. 5:34 cracked me up in particular.

Thanks. I was looking at these two chairs online just yesterday.

Fantastic review. Touched on all the relevant points. Thank you.

Wow, what a detailed review! I just ordered the helinox. Thanks!

Man talk about breaking things down. Might be the most in-depth comparison on any product i've ever seen

Wow. Awesome comparison and love all the specs explained in meaningful outputs/outcomes for real use.

I just found you! I’m such a lucky girl. I’m 48 years old and just getting into hiking. I have asked the question to bring a chair or not bring a chair and now your review has given me an answer (not really because I was going to bring one anyway...my body requires it) BUT it has given me the mathematical equations of why I have to bring a chair. Thank you.

I have had the REI chair for 3 years. I am 6' 1" 190 lb. and find it very comfortable although so far I have only used it for day hikes if I anticipate sitting for long periods of time looking at wildlife with my binoculars. It is very sturdy and has held up well. Sometimes the legs sink into soft ground which requires moving it to a harder surface though.

I have the Helinox as part of my standard kit. I simply cannot sit on the ground/logs/stump for very long without high discomfort, so a chair is pretty key. All of my hiking friends made intense fun of me for bringing such a silly thing, and then a few minutes later looked on with equally intense jeealousy while I sat in luxury and they were in the dirt. Chair for the win, and since the rest of my kit os solidly ultralight I don’t feel bad about bringing it along. Nice overiew!

I can't believe you talked me into a chair... lol! Great video! Thanks for sharing. :)

This has got to be the best camping chair video ever made! Congratulations

Thanks for a great review. I just received my Helinox Zero. I weigh 240” and it seems to fit well. I do find myself sitting gingerly.

Holy carp, a whiteboard presentation review of top tier camp chair contenders! Didn't see this coming, ha. I enjoyed this in depth perspective as great food for thought. My Chair One has mostly perished due to camp fire. No apparent recourse for spare parts sadly...

Love the humor and use of theta. We incorrectly use phi instead of theta in my work and it has always bugged me. Few things I’d still like to know: distance between the poles at the top (broad at the shoulder + rock climber lats = pressure points), does weight include carry sacks? are the feet anti-sink and well attached? does either do better on uneven ground? I have an old 1.7 lb flexlite that I keep losing feet from, they slide off easily after they sink into soft soils. Considering an upgrade because it drives me crazy 😜.

Today having sat in both I went with the rei. Having the horizontal support bar run parallel to my shoulders on the zero chair felt less stable than the rei horizontal bar running from back to front

Pack a chair but don’t tell anybody 😂

As a sufferer of lower back pain, I appreciate you teaching the world about what movements cause us pain

I love every review you do. Great detail and I believe you look into things in great detail. I have the REI chair on its way to me Thank you so very much for your reviews. You are simp,y the best when it come to detail I always look for you first when it comes to knowledge , inspiration and detail Happy Holidays Sheila Vancouver BC🇨🇦

My first backpacking chair was a BSA branded Helinox that I brought to the first Jamboree at Bechtel Summit in 2013. I used that one for a few years, but was plagued by soft-ground tip over here in the Lower Hudson Valley of NY. I switched to the Helinox Ground Chair after seeing Ryan's review on BPL and loved that the chair, since it sat on the ground without pokey legs. Can't tip over!! It weighs in at 21.65 oz. The down side is that it is so low that getting out can be problematic. :-) I'm going to Philmont this summer and wanted to lighten the load a bit, so the Helinox Chair One has been on my radar screen for a year. This video is awesome, Ryan and hits all the important points, ones that I had not considered. I've been a lifetime member of BPL since the beginning, so I'm used to the scientific approach. So, naturally, I had to buy both chairs and take them for a spin. I was all set to love the REI since the one I received weighs 15.56 oz, but my back hits the rear tubes and is uncomfortable. Definitely should not happen. I'm 5'-11", 173 lbs. The Helinox's seat back fits between the tubes, so all's good. I'm more than willing to suck up a 2 ounce penalty in the name of comfort. If not, I'd be going "Stupid Light." (Who wrote that ? . . skurka!) Thanks again Ryan. Still wish I had bought 10 pair of Montrail Vitesse II shoes that you recommended so many years ago. Altra Lone Peak 4.0 are the closest thing to those beauties!

Dang, you didn't leave anything for me to discover. Well done. Lol

Love the analysis of specs, it does give you a different perspective. Thanks!.....However, and as I am in currently looking to purchase one of these, do you have any real world info on: 1) Which one would tip over first upon relaxing your weight against the back of the material? That is, how far back can you recline into each chair without tipping over? I ask this in the context that the more you have to 'fight' gravity in this respect, the less lasting comfort you will have. 2) How easy, difficult, comfortable or uncomfortable is to tie one's shoes in it? How about cooking by leaning forward?

Really impressed by this review very informative and the humor just priceless! I had a couple good laugh throughout!

Habituated camp areas will typically have a firmer ground for those ground stabbing legs on the Heliniox and the REI chair. Primitive sites with softer ground, you might go for a design whose legs have more surface area (tubing) for sitting more atop the ground.

Your chart at the the intro made me pause the video and read it.... made me laugh. Particularly the pack it but don’t tell anybody. The flex lite air is one of my favorite pieces of gear. It takes no time to set up and whether you are at a kid’s lacrosse game or a mile and a half down in a gorge, the weight is totally worth it. I found the flex lite more comfortable than the zero. My preference and I sat in both before I bought the flex lite air. Yes, I’m over 24!

this is so much more than i ever wanted to know but i am here for it

Long ago, chairs made for sitting outside around campfires near the cottage, or at the cottage, outside, where there was slightly uneven ground - were designed with three legs. Some without, making them stable stools, some with, making them stable chairs. One would often find them made with high tech materials such as Balsa, Fir and Black Walnut woods. Ahh, the good ol' days ..... keep getting better except for the sticker shock. ;)

Great vid. You've just science'd the shit out of it for us. Thumbed and subbed. Happy with my Helinox swivel and i suspect the REI type centre stump orientation would cause a bit of wobble?

Great review! It was also a tossup for me and it finally came down to your review, the $20 price difference and the 2 ounces: REI...

I've left Google but if I was still employed I'd be asking the KZfaq Team to create awards for people putting "technical" content like yours on this platform. (Along the lines of channels like Veritasium or Engineering explained where technical topic are accessible and fun to watch) Not to mention the ads free videos is such a rare thing nowadays. As for the trekking pole chair, there are some stuff out there but definitely nothing that was significantly engineered. I am sure it will eventually come out. I'd be curious to see how REI product design team would react if they had a hint of your idea.

Deadpan humor is the best. It belongs in every review. Thanks!

This is amazing. Never even though about why I don’t like certain chairs.

Do a room tour. Those shelves of well arranged backpacking gear shrines are full of content

This is great! I always judge a chair by how it 'sits'. Now I know why it sits the way it does! Cheers! BTW, the outro made me laugh so I subscribed!

I have an older Helinox chair that is 2.27 lbs that I love. I weigh about 195 lbs and I have flopped down into it and it did not even groan. I even added small dog tennis balls to the feet of the chair so that the feet would not sink into the soft ground. A lot of extra weight but I like the comfort. I may have to gift it and get the new lighter one!

thank you - funny comment about "time out".. ! i have been bringing a hammock with me and use it like you would a chair - to relax, not sleep in. but thinking about bringing chair instead- as you can put it on top of granite etc not just in tree area. Good review. i'll stop at REI and try both - but i understand the differences now

Thanks for your TED talk. Professor of chair.

The flow chart at the start of the video is fantastic

What a great review. Thanks

I wasn't a chair guy, until I impulse bought the helinox chair one, now I couldn't imagine going without it. Well worth the extra weight.

If I had had you for a techer I would have loved to go to school!

Great video, you the man👍

Awesome. Sense of humor, factual, enjoyable.

Wow. I loved this video. I thought it was a bit tedious a first, but I changed my mind by the end. Also, isn’t REI a good place to buy from because of their customer service and return policy?

I'm 250lb and my knock off helinox had its leg bent while backpacking this weekend. Not by myself of course, but the one guy who didn't pack a chair and was using mine while I was hanging my bear bag. Anyway, I was just in the REI store and picked up the REI flexlite air and was amazed by how light it was! My knock off chair felt like a sack of rocks in comparison. I'm definitely going to buy one of these chairs as a replacement. Leaning towards the helinox because I'm 250lb, my goal is to get down to 220lb, so if I pull that off I'll get the REI flexlite instead.

Awesome review! And you are hilarious 😂

I wish I had discovered your channel months ago! I haven't seen anyone else take such a scientific approach to gear. Im just getting into backpacking and have bought some great I wish I hadn't. Im a nurse and professed nerd of most things. Throwing in the lower back injury activated by flexion is great. And the trauma from the Greek alphabet had me laughing. Subscribed, catching up and following along. (Amen to changing positions while sitting, L5 fracture with sciatica for me). Any packs geared toward lower back injuries? Sounds counterintuitive, just don't carry heavy loads on your back dingy.

I love the humor! :-)

I’m 5’11, 254lbs, and have both Helinox and REI chairs. The stitching on the Helinox has lasted over 5 years compared to the REI.

I have the URPRO Chair it’s cost me £26 pounds sterling with the orange anodised aluminium poles and I think it’s well comfortable And your explanation is well founded thank you very much

My lady and I bought those Alite 2-leggers right when they came out. Still going - still pack'm - still love'm. We stopped paying attn to chairs and it seems the market went bananas with that design and now they're out of business. We still get weird looks but I actually prefer them not just for size/weight but cuz they're so damn comfy. "No, you don't feel unbalanced in them" is a phrase I've uttered more times than I can possibly remember. So in their case... 2-legs, but "chair". Weird chair, but chair. (And a chair that you can adjust all the angles mentioned here by changing your seat position and balance point. It's awesome.)

Excellent video! Thank you!

I love flow charts. Thumbs up!

Great video. Not mentioned: REI's warranty is 1 year vs Helinox at 5 years. My REI Flexlite Air is in landfill after 13 months and light use; REI fails to offer repairs or support.

Is it hee-lee-nox or hell-ee-nox? Anyway, I have the Chair Zero and I do not regret purchasing it or carrying it one bit.

I just subscribed yesterday after watching you review of the Alpacka Scout pack raft and found this video today. Excellent reviews, and overview on both subjects! I'm 5'11" and I sat in both of the chairs last year at R.E.I, and I found the Helinox Chair Zero to be more comfortable for me with its slightly longer back support, so I purchased it right then and there on sale. I've used it for over a year and I love it! It's so comfortable to have a chair to lounge in around the campfire, and its easier to get up vs. siting on the ground!

Might i inject yet another point concerning seat angle? Yes? Thank you! As that angle increases more pressure is being applied to the Sacrum AND the edge of the chair seat cuts into the back of the leg. This cuts the flow of blood to the legs and feet. That blood flow is what brings relief to tired and weary body parts that brought you to the beautiful places we've chosen to enjoy 😋

Just picked up a flex lite for under $40 at REI. That was after returning a $130 (or around there) Chair zero that wasn’t on sale but also I could not get comfortable in. After watching this entire video while sitting n the Flexlite, I’m pretty happy with my purchase.

fantastic and useful - thanks guys

What an informative and entertaining video. Other points to include: How much is the cost?! I use my hammock as a camping chair. Comfortable, and no extra gear to carry.

Great Vid! Wish more KZfaqrs in the Ultralight world would go this in depth with gear reviews. I was thinking the same thing about carbon poles and DCF material for the seat. Probably going to sew my own seat soon. Something else to consider to make these chairs lighter is removing the stretch cord between the frame lengths. Not that had to reassemble if you pre-mark the joints with different colored nail polish. Saves an oz.....

Decision tree full reveal at :32. Basically, if you’re >24, buy a chair. Subscribing for the humor.

So I tried both chairs, the REI flex light is not even in the same league as the Helinox. Everything from the DAC poles, the design, the strength of the fabric, the bag it comes in, ease of assembly, absolutely everything is better. The REI Flex light 2022 is a stool, I returned it, also noticed 3 punchers in the fabric. The Helinox is a good chair for anyone 210lbs and below, the REI 150lbs and below and thats my rap.

I may be a year late but I still found it true today. Hilarious and informative.

Dude, awesome. The dry wit is killer.

Outstanding presentation. I have a backpack and chair myself and it is the most comfortable sitting experience any backpacker can have. They are considerably on really light weight taken in consideration they are a chair that provides the same features and comfort of a conventional chair. They are not cheap though. A pad on the ground it’s a much lighter choice but not as comfortable as a backpacking chair. I have the ALite mayfly backpacking chair that I don’t regret having purchased it.. what is your favorite backpack and chair? Thank you so much for sharing this video. Just to let you know, I subscribed to your channel. God bless you.

Wow really well researched . Thanks

4 years later and the best we have is the nemo moonlite elite that combines better comfort for a tad more weight. Could you review it as well? I personally am sticking with my rei fexlite that was cheaper and functional. If needed, I can get a replacement seat cover since I tend to be hard on chairs. Great video. Thanks!

well done! Subbed!

Serious question does the orientation of the strut make a difference to you? Is one more stable?