That was from our 16 gun shoot last July. You can watch a full vid at The #MGC2022 16 Gun #VickersMG Shoot at Bisley kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oqeCmrmg0Ne1ZGw.html. Make sure you subscribe too.

@@vickersmg…..and the K gun ? This was used by the LRDG possibly ?

A video for just that question: Hell Let Loose - What about the Vickers K? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j6uadcaQ1suUdJc.html

@@vickersmg Thanks….I spotted it shortly after I asked my question.

Except for: not being used by Nazis, not being built by slave labour, able to do this for hours without having to change barrels, not exploding because the bolts bounce and a few other things I’m sure.

It would be great to see the bipod role used and then perhaps the accuracy increased. It's a superb gun to fire aimed shots from.

We were still using the Bren in the early 1980's in the New Zealand Army re chambered to 7.62mm.A great weapon on the range or in the field.I really enjoyed using it.

Still in use in the British Army until 2002. An amazing longevity.

I'm so happy the top comment is calling out the new devs. As someone once said "They started a marathon 25 miles in on a golden scooter and still managed to lose the rece"

Well hopefully they’ll start to resolve those issues now and robustly.

Absolutely. A misunderstanding we try to correct as regularly as we can, with the spent brass to show for it!

As a long term firearms licence holder that is news to me, they had my pistols off me years back!

@@pcka12 My pistols went then too. First all the full bore ones, then a year later Labour came to power and out-nannied the Tories by banning the rimfire ones as well. That just left me with rifles and air weapons.

@@derekp2674 @pcka12 well we hold pistols as well. Yes, they're prohibited weapons but thankfully the right justifications mean we have sufficient good reason to possess them. We'll be putting together a short video on the legalities of possessing prohibited weapons in the UK this week so make sure you subscribe and check it out when it goes live. If you like what we need and want to contribute to that 'good reason' then become one of our patrons at www.patreon.com/vickersmg

@@vickersmg Thanks for the update. I'm sure I'm already subscribed in KZfaq and I have already donated to your most recent appeal for funds. As I'm based fairly close to Swindon, I expect I'll be able to get along to one of your open days soon. I'm currently studying the recoil dynamics of rifle grenades, so if you have any relevant artefacts for that quest, I would be interested to see those too.

Thank you very much. That's kind of you to say so. Please do share and encourage people to subscribe.

Imagine being in a trench 2 or 3 hundred yards away from that lot and being told to "go over the top".

Horrible.

A very accurate weapon that would probably fill the designated marksman role in the modern infantry very nicely!

My recollection is how loud it was. Two or three bursts from a prone position and i couldn't hear anything. Y

The days before hearing protection? We regularly fire inside buildings with them as part of our demonstrations and normal ear defenders work fine - it's the pressure wave that surprises most people.

@@vickersmg That's right, this was not on the range. Y

Then it’ll certainly made them ring!

All part of an event we ran last year. The #MGC2022 16 Gun #VickersMG Shoot at Bisley kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oqeCmrmg0Ne1ZGw.html

Cheers Robbie. Very much Adam B-H quality on this one. I’m just the talking head!

Great point. This is the safe way to do it: holding under the ejection cover is going to give you a bad day straight away and holding the barrel handle has the risk of it breaking (and we’ve seen it done but thankfully not while firing).

And hopefully more ammunition was available! DEMS used the most Lewis guns in the Second World War.

Okay, what’s a DEMS ?.

@@trappenweisseguy27 Defencibly Equipped Merchant Ship. . My father was in the Maritime Regiment of the Royal Artillery. Soldiers at sea. The unit casualties were very high, mostly fatal when ships were sunk.

An interesting part of the Royal Artillery very few are aware of!

Absolutely James. Merely a case of not balancing the information and not scripting it precisely either. We'll do more on the Lewis and its introduction in the coming months, albeit we bought it from the Belgians rather than the US. Remarkably it was trialed in the same round of machine gun trials as the Vickers in 1912.

All they was rig the bren to fire 303 ammo. British in what way.

British re-design, British build, British used the vast majority in service. Pedants, of which there seem to be a lot about, would say that the ZB was Czechoslovakian but the Bren was British.

Thanks Jonathan. Praise indeed. Send the gaming community here when you need a break and we'll have a cardboard cutout some time soon ;o) No one seems to want to tackle the intricacies of MMGs in a gaming scenario though.

Thank you very much. Our video output has been limited over the last few months but hopefully we've a better set up for doing so now.

Excellent! Thanks for saying so. We can’t monetise this content and we do rely on donations so if you can please pop across to vickersmg.blog/about/support/ and pick a way of helping us out - even help fund an MG42 for the collection!

Glad you like it. We’ll hopefully put more of the same out in the next few weeks. We can’t monetise this content so please support us if you can www.patreon.com/VickersMG.

You’re allowed if you subscribe, like and share ;-)

They just had different fusee spring tensions that adjusts the rate of fire slightly. You can balance two or three guns together quite easily but not possible on this one. The Bren drills you were using for single shot were exactly as described in the 1939 pamphlet!

@@vickersmg I was told by an "old Vickers gunner" that there were 22 different stoppages on the Vickers and you needed to know every one by heart so that your IA drills were second nature. I think he was one of the last in the Army left over from Korea - he looked old enough for that. I don't know if this is true - I ended up as a Coy Comdr so didn't get to fire the MG that much.

You might like this one: Stoppages and the Vickers Machine Gun kzfaq.info/get/bejne/g9txhsKWsta2cpc.html

It would be great to see! If you want to know more about the roles then head to our website: vickersmg.blog/in-use/transport/man-carrying-the-mmg/

A terrifying thought! It was an incredible feeling to stand behind them as all 16 were firing. The energy was intense.

That’s exactly what Japanese soldiers walked into at the Battle of Imphal in a gully and their commander kept sending more up to be cut down by the defenders

@@davidknight1119 Gotta love the scene from The last samurai when they brought up the gatlings… The movie is inspired by the battle of Shiroyama if I’m not mistaken

That's interesting. We're compiling accounts of Vickers MG use in the Far East for a future project and hadn't heard that one.

We’re not sure ‘love’ is the right word to use there but we know the scene you mean.

Yes, we've read that reading the Vickers too, with the AMF units getting much older examples and the regulars having new guns from Lithgow.

Thanks Bob. Hopefully you've taken a look at the full video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oqeCmrmg0Ne1ZGw.html

We use PPU 174gr as it’s the most readily available for us that functions in MGs properly.

There’s a lot of thought in that! I’m sure there’s a way of making it work.

buildable HMGs were in the works by the previous devs, they'll probably be added someday, tough I wouldn't count on using team ammunitions for ammo, only 50 supplies like the AT gun to be built.

It would be good to incorporate the teamwork requirement to make it a playable aspect like an infantry section.

Glad you enjoyed it! The Bren is a great LMG and would be a super designated marksman rifle as well. It's very impressive at doing things the Vickers wasn't designed to do.

It does! Did you watch the whole video? The #MGC2022 16 Gun #VickersMG Shoot at Bisley kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oqeCmrmg0Ne1ZGw.html

Plenty of interesting ways to build that in: multi-player teams, barrel changes when the No 2 is close enough, more ammunition from across the platoon; greater range when firing from the tripod and upgrades to Mark 8z ammunition to give up to 4500 yards range on the Vickers. Perhaps even incorporate them into the use of the Universal carrier. Plenty of scope.

@@vickersmg I am PRAYING for mortars to be added

It would be a lot of the same coding as indirect fire for artillery and machine guns.

For ranges less than 400yds, it's a great stable weapon to fire from. Take a look at the 'Sniper Bren' video we did a couple of years ago. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o6xpa5mAp5eVn2g.html

For a real Vickers detachment, the No 1 places the tripod and the No 2 carries the gun - that would create real teamwork! No ammunition until the No 3 comes up and water with the No 4. This would be a nice variation with other countries too possibly.

Took me a while to find out what ADS means but yes, it’s not really possibly to aim down the sights while running.

My guess is the Brits didn't really have anything that compares directly to the BAR, so they filled the gap with the Bren.

Not sure many countries had an automatic rifle the same as the BAR, which is arguably forced into an LMG role as the Browning M1919 is an MMG when on the tripod and only an LMG in the A6 role.

@@kilroy2517 Other way round. The Yanks had nothing like the Bren and tried to fill the gap with the BAR.

@@zoiders I'm talking about the game. You know, what this video is about?

Don’t forget Belgium’s involvement in giving Lewis the initial production capacity after the US said no. We will do a full video on the Lewis at some point but couldn’t get all the information in this one.

Glad you find the videos interesting and our Association worthwhile.

I'm sure that can work somehow.

I think a specific squad should be created. An sl with his OP and all if the support players similar to a recon squad

We just replied to your other message to but check out the roles of the original teams - interesting to think how this could work: vickersmg.blog/in-use/transport/man-carrying-the-mmg/

Absolutely! It needs a lot of strength to throw about.

Glad you think so!

No, we don’t have a No 2 Mk 1 currently. We will be adapting one of our No 1 Mk 1 guns at some point as there aren’t any permanent modifications to fit.

@@vickersmg So were there "conversion kits" for aircraft guns or is this a build based on the Land Service model?

The basic gun is exactly the same and they could easily have components interchangeable between them. The No 2 Mk I used by Commandos was a ‘B’ variant as the ‘A’ was actually an RAF land service gun used for local airfield defence.

@@vickersmg Thank you for the insightful reply

This is one of our manuals that shows more about the different types of guns. The bipod mounting isn’t covered as that comes later but this is the ‘A’ variant. archive.org/details/1938ukap1641bwithamds/page/n27/mode/1up

It would have to be a breakage I think, which would beg the question as to how worn the parts are in the first place. Nothing is new enough to make that good research sadly.

@@vickersmg A fairly recent Indian production gun might do.

Very true.

Brens came with a spare barrel, so it could be changed after 10 magazines of sustained fire. An advancing section would barely have enough ammunition to need it.

If you’ve got access to a VR headset and headphones, take a look from a very different angle: Vickers Machine Gun Shoot - VR headset / 360 degree video #MGC2022 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hduig8agvMXDZIk.html

Normally 25-yards apart for each gun but they could easily be firing on a target with a small frontage like this. Devastating effect!

The cool thing with the Vickers was that it could, and at least in WW1, frequently was, be used as an indirect fire weapon. You could cover an area of ground with indirect fire MMG rounds, denying the enemy passage through that area.

A tactic developed in the First World War but definitely expanded on in the Second World War with the introducing of the dial sight and Mark 8z ammunition extending the range to 4,500 yards. Nearly 100 Vickers with the Australians at El Alamein firing on the same plan and the late-war ‘pepperpots’ saw them used alongside artillery and even tanks for indirect fire.

​@@vickersmgThey did a similar thing in '82 down south with the GPMG

Something we’ll have to read up about Mark - thanks! There was certainly a resurgence of training for sustained fire machine gunnery post-82.

That’s great! My grandad was 7th Bn Cheshires and one of the first things he told me at about the same age was the 2-inch tap! It’s officially called the ‘consistency of tap’ and if you watch the full live-streamed vid of the July 2022 shoot we demonstrate it as well. It was useful to me as I bought the first Vickers aged 12 (a deac) and it’s all gone from there. - Rich

Interesting. Many would agree in real life as well.

@@vickersmg US Army Infantryman here, maybe that's why lol

Good to hear!

Ooof! Superhuman strength helps that.

That’s the flash eliminator as it’s likely to make cleaning easier.

@@vickersmg I think you are right. The cordite residue is blown in front of the shield and then towards the muzzle.

The front stainless steel part was designed to be a wear part and replaceable in Mk I, but since the whole barrel is quick detachable in Mk II and onwards the stainless steel part was eliminated.

The whole barrel is detachable on the Mark 1 as well. We're not aware of any British consideration of the flash eliminator only being changed or spares carried of it in the gun group (based on printed manuals).

Well we’re not sure it was casual but it was well braced! Rich is used to lifting the Vickers more: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kLdia6p537qUdH0.html

??

Thank you. Horrible fighting that! We’ve watched some of the @ww2tv videos on the battle and can thoroughly recommend them.

The Lewis accounts for at least one VC action (I'd have to check my recent Armax paper to remember exactly what that was) so it was used in combat but not with the infantry. The Vickers GO / K was an assault weapon only used by the Commandos so not with the line infantry either. It was very much the Bren as the widespread LMG.

@@vickersmg off the top of my head, Sgt. Thomas Durrant's V.C. for the St. Nazaire raid was Lewis gun related.

That sounds about right. I’ve written a whole paper on the use of small arms on VC actions but I can’t remember the dataset. I’ll have to upload it all at some point!

There is some evidence that the Lewis gun shot down more enemy aircraft than any of the other AA weapons available to British forces including 3.5inch, 20mm Oerlikon, 40mm Bofors, 40mm Pom Pom, 4.5 inch etc.... Primarily this was due to its ubiquity when British forces faced enemy aircraft the most...

You’ll have to back that one up with the evidence!

We have one of the Indian-made Brens in our collection (from 1969). A great reliable piece: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nraPqa2b0tW0o4k.html

Because it shouldn’t be used for that! It places too much strain on a part not designed for it and we’ve seen one break while in use but thankfully not firing. The correct place to hold is the bipod legs. There are photos of it being fired by the barrel carrying handle but there are always photos of things that shouldn’t happen.

That source might have been us! We’re doing a special bonus on the role of the K but in the meantime watch our old one: US Rangers using the Vickers Gas-Operated (Class K) Gun kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o99jYNmV182uoqM.html

@@vickersmg you might well be the original source but I saw it on the American Rifleman after a certain YT channel said the Rangers used the very similar Lewis gun on their D-Day coverage this year. The picture shown didn't look like a Lewis gun to me. I'll be checking out your video soon.

Great. We’ve got a longer one of the VGO too so take a look at that.

Specific K gun video now available! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j6uadcaQ1suUdJc.html

CQB fire by bounds is an interesting one to have a drill for - much better from the prone but at least it meant the Bren gunner could get stuck in for house clearing!

Glad you think so!

We can 3D render them too! Something we’re exploring more of as part of the virtual tour and digitisation of the collection to make it more accessible. my.mpskin.com/en/tour/1bmwzehzh

@@vickersmg Do you provide YT membership? Can't see the Join link?

We do now! Thanks for mentioning it - it's kicked us into action!

@@vickersmg I'll start paying a few quid on the 17th, as this channel is well worth supporting.

@@philbosworth3789 That will be super! Thank you so much!

It wasn’t withdrawn completely until 2002 and stayed on alongside GPMG for many years. It was much more suited to roles where a No 2 couldn’t be in close proximity or where belt-feed caused problems. A superbly accurate gun that can game the scoring system for most shoots very easily by either keeping it on repetition for automatic shoots or using automatic for ‘number of rounds on target’ shoots.

They boil the 7.5 pints after 600 rounds rapid (five minutes ish) then lose 1.5 pints every 1000 rounds rapid (eight minutes).

@@vickersmg plenty or what? struggle to keep up with loading belts to keep her fed before you have to worry about the barrel?

Depends on the rate of fire. If you’re doing a big task, with lots of belts prepped, you’d be firing at a slower rate of fire which may not even boil the water.

@@vickersmg yer like it they were set up and just doing stitches? wave after wave just stitch em? or how do you mean? or you mean in real life, they dont just keep running to the slaughter? so its in bursts or?

Machine guns would be set up further back where they could manage their fire and be protected by infantry if they were doing any planned shoot. If they were defensive in the front line then they’d be in the wrong place! It did happen (and many a gallantry award was received as a result) but the guns often then overheated or ran out of ammunition.

For the rate of fire of the Bren, and the lack of sights that work with the drum fitted, the standard 30-round magazine was much more appropriate. The Vickers was chosen for its high rate of fire more than the magazine capacity.

@vickersmg I see (thanks for the reply), so in a real situation the two working in situ is ideal, gaining accuracy/flexibility with one and suppression with the other, which isn't a model easily adapted to uncoordinated squads in Hell Let Loose I suppose. One other question if you don't mind, in Hell Let Loose the sights are near unusable. Do you think they've been too literal in their interpretation and so not considered how the sights seemed in practice?

All major powers used their LMGs in that way so it would be interesting to see how 50% of the LMG’s ammunition could be carried by the other men in the section.

Red Orchestra/Rising Storm 2 did a good job at it, MG's were godlike even the Dp-27

Interesting. Perhaps we need to look at some different games too.

⁠The German soldiers were effectively ammo porters for the squad MG42 many of them didn’t even fire their own rifles

We're currently doing some deep dive research into the Bren and the doctrine shows that we used the Bren in the same way - "The rifle is the personal weapon of the indvidual. It will be needed to augment the fire of the L.M.G. when required in an emergency, for local protection, and especially for "sniping" single enemy." The BRITISH Small Arms Training pamphlet No 4 for the Bren, 1942: archive.org/details/1942-uk-sat-1-pam-4/page/n19/mode/2up

There are lots of shooting clubs around the country for rifle and shotgun shooting. The weapons we have, other than the rifles, are considered prohibited weapons and require special authority from the Home Office. We’ll be sharing a video about that in the next few weeks and it will explain more. Please do subscribe and turn on notifications to make sure you don’t miss it. Sign up to our patreon at www.patreon.com/VickersMG if you’d like to support us some more.

How do we own machine guns in the UK? The answer. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l819mteQx9XNaKM.html

I thought it was for the Schwarzlose MG but could be wrong.

@@vickersmg Thank you!

You’re welcome.

Well that's a new one on us! We have the full trials reports for the Bren included in our uploads of the Small Arms Committee Minutes as we're pretty sure it's not in there (and it would have been!). The lack of large capacity magazine and the rate of fire would have made it very unsuitable as an aircraft gun at that point in time. The full index of minutes is available for anyone to view: www.patreon.com/posts/small-arms-and-40900032 and subscribe if you want to read the reports.

Yes and no to a lot. Tactically both weapons were used the same and carried the same amount of ammunition in the section with a similar practical rate of fire. They also weighed the same. From a jungle perspective, the M60 (as a belt-fed weapon in Vietnam) performed well in the jungle environment, as did the L7 GPMG in British service in jungles. The small 'drums' for the belt-fed weapons operated like magazines so the problem of belt-drag was quickly overcome. Accuracy? yes the Bren was more accurate to hold on the target but the German argument was that 25 rounds per second hit the spot before the gun veered off. Rich is currently writing a paper on the Bren versus the MG42 as part of the equipment-centric capability analysis he's working on. It'll be published in the next few months and draw out many more arguments about which was best, including training, infrastructure and logistics, all of which were the Bren's true strong points that made it a battle-winning capability.

1. I think it was rather due to the fact that german infantry unit was centered around their MG. Which quite frankly is not a bad idea when you compare what 1 MG can do compared to even a bunch of bolt action rifles. And enemy usually doesn't like to go against MG for the very same reason. Thus as long as you can feed and fire your MG you can at worse fairly hold the area even if majority of your men were wiped out.

As was the British section, based around the Bren that is. The section level tactics, ammunition amounts, practical rates of fire and ability to prolong a firefight are all very very similar. Bren rate of fire, 112 rounds per minute; German? 150-180 (light role). Amount of rounds carried by the section: British was 1,000 rounds (1944 Infantry Training pamphlet at vickersmg.blog/manual/infantry-training/) and German was 1,150 (from www.battleorder.org/1944-schutzenkompanie).

I believe that the Bren was very good at taking out German MG34/42s, as it was very obvious where a MG was set up and being fed. Attackers just had to worry about the MG position and less about the rest of the enemy section. The Bren just had to find a position to take the MG position out, and once found the Bren's accuracy came into its own. Taking few shots to hit was harder to spot. It might also be in any shooting position the section was holding. All the section's riflemen were also expected to get stuck in so adding to the difficulty in identifying where the Ben was. Very different section tactical use. For Platoon firepower there was the Vickers to supplement the Bren with added sustained fire, which it could do all day and night. Interestingly the modern British Army with their Sharpshooter's Rifles are reverting back to Bren section tactics. Well Bren accuracy to get hits on the enemy rather than the spay and prey.

@@vickersmg I remember reading part of the after-action report on Long Tan by major Smith, OC D-Coy. Highlights from memory: Owen SMG: useless. M16: performed OK, as expected. SLR L1: the workhorse. M60: very problematic. Largely (if not only) due to belts dragging through mud. They had little choice but to use the M60 in Vietnam at that stage. The L4 and L7 were not introduced into the NZ army until the seventies, for as far as I know. Edit: I just came across two photos of Australian soldiers with L4A4s from 1965 in Borneo, so they would have been available.

There's lots of scope for it to be included. Maybe the Vickers K (check out our short video released yesterday) but that could be an upgrade for the Bren for special missions.

Not quite as bad as where it jumps when firing the Vickers in shorts!

Well we have the 7.62 Bren and it’s great. We’re hoping to acquire an SLR in the next month or two.

@@vickersmg I have never used a 7.62 Bren only the .303. If you manage to get hold of an SLR the rubbish bin is a good place to put it in.

The 303 Bren and 762 Bren are both excellent! We’ll share what we think of the SLR as we develop the collection - there are some big fans out there though!

What would be the difference between the Lewis and the Bren? Can the weight slow you down more? Are stoppages and overheating built into the game randomly? The 100 round drums would slow you down again though with weight. We understand game play has to balance the accuracy but there might be other ways of setting levels, such as just upping the accuracy of a gun with greater experience, or even be able to use it as part of a team in the fixed line role for defence.

@@vickersmg The biggest issue is that HLL does not allow for the Bren to deploy its bipod, instead they model the Bren like they do the US BAR. HLL has the Bren perform as an "automatic rifle" being fired from the shoulder (and yet restrict the Soviet DP-27 to being used on the bi-pod or the hip and not from the shoulder). The Lewis gun, and the 1914 Enfield, and the Lanchester SMG were all a waste of the dev's time and resources. For the entry level kits they should have used SMLE Mk III, the "Tommy" gun, and the Bren in MG role (the Bren can later use the 50 or 100rd drums). HLL does not model weight, stoppage, barrel heat, or any of the other factors that would normally be taken in to consideration. HLL's ultimate sin is to build faction squads with kit load outs that are equal to each other. You'll find that the Germans squads have StG44's and G43's galore, no pazerfausts, and the Panzerschreck only carries two rounds yet has pinpoint accuracy (of note, in HLL the MG34 used 50rd drums and the MG42 uses 100rd drums). The balancing act includes armor, they literally modeled the Firefly tank to have the same armor value as the Tiger and Panther. They've put the US 76mm main gun on par with the afor mentioned 3 main guns (as "heavy tanks") yet put the Panzer IV's 7.5 cm KwK 40 L/43-48 main gun in the same groups as the US 75mm and Soviet 76mm main gun of which there was no comparison in terms of armor piercing. Another sad thing is all "heavy" heavy tanks have the same armor, gun, and speed abilities, as does the "medium" tanks (Sherman M4, Cromwell, and T34). All in the name of "balance". Toss in using player controlled 105mm artillery (too close to troops, there should be mortars instead), and bombing runs by heavy bombers (B17's would never drop ordnance within a stone's throw of their own troops), these types of things make guys like me shake our heads.

We don’t know about game design but we do know about balancing different aspects of capability and it’s a challenging task. There are always losers with compromise.

The challenge was overheating due to the aircooling. It couldn't support the sustained fire needed for true machine gunnery so the Vickers had that role and kept it strongly until the 1960s.

@@vickersmg Strensall Barracks 1963. How to get rid of 5 million rounds of 303: Get a Vickers go to the range and start shooting. For an entire week. Afterwards the gun was still within spec. Can you imagine the size of the pile of spent brass? Was it possible to convert a Vickers to fire 7.62 x 51 from a disintegrating link belt?

A tale from ‘Pride of the Emma Gees’ (vickersmg.blog/product/the-vickers-machine-gun-pride-of-the-emma-gees/) and apparently it was six million according to the chap who witnessed it as he corrected us afterwards. Yes, the Vickers was used by the South Africans in 7.62x51 right up until the 1980s. It used disintegrating link but needed a special type.

Being behind them was bad enough! Have you watched the full video yet?

My dad had a permenant scar on his finger from a cocking lever hitting it....somewhere at home I ha e a newspaper photo of him behind a twin barreled nordenfeldt .also one of him at twenty one as #1 winning lord somebody or others cup , probably at Winchester ,With the KRRC

That’s really interesting. You do have to keep your fingers out of the way! When was he in the KRRC?

Let’s go with ‘no’ as in ‘not that easily’ but it could be for single shots.

@@vickersmg Considering we have an account of one absolute unit shoulder-firing a Lewis from an aeroplane I would not rule it out with a Bren...

As a happy ex-user of the 7.62 L4 version, I'd suggest no, not as easily, there's a bit too much metal to keep in the air unless you are a rather well built and muscled person (and I am definitely not that!). 🙂

it’s definately possible, you can shoulder fire PKMs, GPMGs and SAWs albeit not accurately. I’d wager i’d be able to fire the Bren from the shoulder a lot more accurately than those 3. So yes as long as you aren’t built like a human noodle.

Ive fired BREN and GPMG from the shoulder on CQB ranges in the 80s . It used to be taught. Its not "easy" but managable with practice. You have to let the barrel down between bursts due to the weapons weight.

We found that’s only really a problem when firing it on repetition and it stops when firing automatic.

@@vickersmg Yes I think it was on single shot and probably for a good reason!, It was bloody loud I think it would of been around 1993 before we would of worn ear protection maybe I can't remember.

It’s quite interesting how the specific use has become very generalised though and a lot of people think that it’s just the way the Bren worked, but that defies physics really! I remember my first couple of years in cadets about that time when ear protection wasn’t too common.

@@vickersmg yes I struggle to remember although earlier on in the day I had shot the Lee Enfield and the SLR and I wasn't really up to shooting anything else after that 😄

Hopefully we’ll be adding an SLR into the collection soon, but we have a couple of other projects to complete first. Head over and check them out: vickersmg.blog/product-category/project-support/

Belt-fed took over.

We fire the 7.62 Bren as part of our visits, albeit blank, so come and see us if you’d like to: vickersmg.blog/visits/

Very true. We’re privileged to be able to do what we do with them.

You’d be hitting every target! Rich doesn’t target shoot but can get 45+ out of 50 on one of competition shoots with the Bren as it’s so easy to be an accurate weapon when fired from the bipod.

When you’re number two is on your shoulder, you know it’s a good one.

Rate of fire: yes. Accuracy: maybe. Weight of bullet: not for everyone! Comparative historical analysis on this stuff is great to do.

That’s great. Well we hope the channel gives you some insight into what he did.

All new ammunition so it wasn’t quite as choking as cordite thankfully. Head over and watch the full video and there’s more to come tomorrow.

I’ve been camping in woods with Boar in France and I think I’d have wanted a Bren! Sounds like he’d have got the meat for dinner.

@@vickersmg He was a law unto himself, so I don't fancy the boars' chances.

I bet they ate well!

@@vickersmg He came back from Germany looking remarkably tanned and healthy, so maybe that's why...

A few trips around the Black Forest in the sunshine sounds like a good way of winding down after a War.

Absolutely! That’s where the game puts the hands. A very bad day if you’ve done that!

@@vickersmg I took an ejected blank case on the top of one finger once, and that was enough to make sure I never did it again.

Ouch!

Thank you very much. Glad you liked it.

Lots of them!

Is it in the game! If so, we’ll happily take a look.

@@vickersmg yes, on anti tank class.

We’ll add it to the list!

Anti-aircraft was their main use in the Second World War.

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.

Yes, Lewis was an American and it was built by FN in Belgium. Bren started as the ZB in BRno, Czechoslovakia, and licensed to the Royal Small Arms Factory in ENfield, hence the name.

We’ve a short video explaining that coming up in the next few days!

We've just published a video answering that! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j6uadcaQ1suUdJc.html

Absolutely. The sling helps a lot and the later padded versions even better! It seems the game is using the Bren like that but expecting to be accurate out to 400 yards whereas the CQB stance is really 50 yards maximum.

@@vickersmg Set up the sling correctly, by winding the right arm around the back part of the sling and you can get a solid base. It kind of locks up and becomes enough for reasonable control to be effective out to 200m. Getting the sling the right length takes some faffing about until right. From seeming to do nothing it suddenly just sets in solid when right. That and the side grip and you almost have "Aliens 2" heavy weapons carry. Perfect for shooting from inside of buildings without getting near the window, and you can move rooms too fast enough so changing your fire position. I saw loads of machine gunners never learn that trick, because basically no one had shown them.

Interesting. We had one of the barrel handles snap during a demonstration once - thankfully not while firing - so it shows why they used the bipod legs to support rather than the carry handle.

@@vickersmg Soldiers can break anything. Don't get me wrong when possible, and static for any length of time, use the bipod. Interestingly our shooting team used the Bren foresight elements as the post were slimmer than general SLR issue. I only carried a Bren for a short while until issued a GPMG. That was a long time ago. The point of the collection is to retail knowledge for prosperity. Gun matches at Bisley were won by the Bren Teams over the GPMG's until the rules were changed. A good gunner could single tap with the rhythm of the gun to stay giving central hits and not wander off. With the Bren you could barely notice the difference to full auto. The GPMGs are noticeably faster, though can still be single tapped.. The first thing I was taught on the GPMG not in the user manual was to stamp on the cocking handle to clear a stuck cartridge jam. Anything goes to get them back into action. In truth I had few difficulties with either Bren or GPMG, they were both highly reliable.

Yeah but they didn't cluster LMGs like that in any situation - they're assets to look after as much as possible!

Well... vickersmg.blog/in-use/myths/

Not the Vickers. End. vickersmg.blog/in-use/myths/

We had a developer come and record our 16 gun shoot last July so we know the sound is out there and plenty of firearms dealers support that so it shouldn’t be difficult to get. We’ll licence our own audio too.

They’re classed as prohibited weapons and need authority from the Home Office. It’s a question we’re regularly asked so have produced a short video about it that will be shared in the next few weeks. Make sure you subscribe to find out more and consider supporting us on www.patreon.com/VickersMG if you’d like to help us fund the Association.

How do we own machine guns in the UK? The answer. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l819mteQx9XNaKM.html

Do you mean the game recreation? If so, that’s one of the things we comment on in the video. The clip of us firing with the close quarter battle drill has the firer holding the bipod, where he should be.

It was air cooled and that allows air all around the barrel, which sits in the centre of that space.

​@@vickersmg Now I know, thank you. It looks more like an air trap than an air circulator.

He’s going to get some very hot and bashed fingers doing so! It’s completely the wrong position to hold the gun when firing from the hip. We’d be very happy to work with any developers. We’re a not-for-profit with the object to get people informed about the history of things so this outreach has been great.

@@vickersmg If you were to turn this into a serious collaboration with Team17 it could boost your reach even further. The Dev/Publisher is British and based in wakefield. Theyve received lots of complaints and there's rumours of a rework. If you were to help them out youve got a good chance of securing a lot of good publicity.

We’ve tagged etc in a few posts across social media. We may reach out directly as it would be good to help.

​@@vickersmg yes please that will help a lot!!! Love from Ecuador

Well that’s great. If players have a mechanism to tag them and invite them as well, please do and perhaps mention this video.

Glad you liked it. Have you watched the full video yet?

@@vickersmg anything with a Bren or Vickers in has to be watched

Well we’ve got plenty of that!

Only jeep mounted in North Africa and then used by the Army Commandos in North West Europe for specific operations rather than wide-spread use. Take a look at our overview video on the VGO: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hcCeostlsLnWn6c.html

Video now available answering this: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j6uadcaQ1suUdJc.html

Hell Let Loose - the real British submachine guns kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oKukaZt40N7Fk58.html

It wasn’t used to arm the regular infantry units though. Bren production was in full swing and they quickly recovered any losses.

@vickersmg So, was it just the Home Guard who were exclusively armed with it at section level?

It might have been with some Territorial Army units still but for a very short period and unlikely first-line stuff. The Royal Artillery had them with the anti-aircraft batteries as well. There were also a lot of vehicle and boat mounted Lewis around, with the Royal Air Force too.

@vickersmg So where does the VGO figure in all of this then? 🤣

Hell Let Loose - What about the Vickers K? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j6uadcaQ1suUdJc.html

Yes, many did, and then landing craft of all ships. The recently shared photos of Churchill visiting the Normandy beaches just after Op OVERLORD show a nice Mark 3 or 4 Lewis in the background.

@@vickersmg my friends great uncle was crew on a collier and he showed us (when I was wee - long long time ago) a picture of him looking mean on his ship with his gun. I said something about it being a Lewis gun and he told me that it was a Savage Gun. I think these were just Lewis guns made under licence. They also had one of those odd potato digger machine guns. I’m not sure if their name, though. American again with a bizarre swinging arm thing under the barrel.

Probably because the Savage-made guns were stamped Savage in the top so that’s what he’d have seen. The ‘potato diggers’ were Colt guns from an 1895 design. They’re only other use was with the Canadian Expeditionary Force and we’ll do a little more on those in the future.

@@vickersmg Oh cool. Look forward to that.

We know nothing of the game itself so can’t comment on that but using the Bren without the bipod does limit it’s role and doesn’t reflect the doctrine of the day.

You can watch this vid to understand more about U.K. machine gun ownership: MGC2022 Planning the events Q&A #vickersmg kzfaq.info1njLHKuOYIo?feature=share

How do we own machine guns in the UK? The answer. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l819mteQx9XNaKM.html

Perhaps upgrade options for them to consider.