if? "appearances can be deceiving" "you need to understand your opponent's fear, help them master it, and in turn mastering them" "if you or the numenorians knew what i have done you would cast me out" yeah... no if, halbrand is sauron, and galadriel is bringing him back

This is off topic but the artist at 3:41 is actually Phobs! She is one of the biggest contributors of Silm art :)

You should have just taken Amazon's shill money and covered rings of power on your main channel since you refuse to speak about how awful it is anyway

I'm _very_ curious how much they might lean into the idea of a repentant Sauron if that theory turns out to be true. (spoilers below) --- --- It would be easy for the showrunners to write off things like his "I'm sorry for your brother, I'm sorry for all of it" line as just a lie, but undoing big moments like that is almost always extremely risky territory, especially when it's running across the entire season, and when some of them have been with nobody else around to pretend in front of. Has a high likelihood of killing the investment people have in the characters without a good payoff. On the other hand, the idea of it being true and this being Sauron actually regretting what he's done, but falling back to evil as he gets pushed to the throne of the Southlands and decides to embrace it once more... That would be _hard_ to convincingly pull off, given how comically evil he is during both prior and later Ages. But if they did so in a way that actually worked and felt real, _damn_ I'd have to respect them forever. (And of course, always possible it's just not true and he's not Sauron in the first place, but there's not really as much to say on this topic with that option lol.)

@@namenloss730 It never clicked for me. It would be a big twist, and now that I think about it, it makes sense, but until you pointed it out I didn't see it at all

This is for the people who are complaining that Galadriel in Rings of Power us coming across too much as an angsty teen 😛

@@kirbyone buuuut they do be right though👀

Al Bundy as an Elf? 😂

Can I ask for the discord link

@@KerrxLaeda what would the life of an elf shoe salesman with a bad wife be like?

Lets be honest we waited so long for this: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o6mWjMxom5mYook.html

I feel like if I’ve got the power, it would get kind of hectic.

@@docstockandbarrel "you have the power of a god now" "ah. this will not go well for the rest of you, i fear."

Dune be like:

An powr doe not currupt, but reveals.

@Maro Cat Scientifically speaking, power does have observable effects on the human brain that could be considered corrupting.

So the One Ring tempted and corrupted Sauron, as it does to others?

@@KayleighBourquin Not exactly like the others, but I suppose in a sense, it did. Although made from Saurons power, wearing the ring made him more powerful than before, so, more distant to the results of his actions. It is an interesting view, for sure.

I guess in that sense, he could have seen the other rings and thought they could be so much more effective if the rings themselves had order. If only there was just one more ring... One ring to rule them all...

I subscribe to this too Sauron started off doing dominion but he had good intentions, he’d use the Rings to prevent the downfall of Middle Earth His appendices entry in Shadow of Mordor is how I imagine he viewed himself in those days (simply trying to save the world abandoned by the Gods) Then slowly that becomes tyrannical and spiteful, that they should listen to him because he wills it, rather then it being truly the better outcome

The lore doesn’t really support this idea, Sauron was already building his fortress in Mordor before he created the rings, he was gathering followers and making plans. He also intentionally deceived the elves as to who he was when he approached them which suggests malice. I can understand a brief time where Sauron turned his attention towards good but the forging of the rings happens over a thousand years into the second age, he is most definitely evil by then.

Sauron is the myth of the "benevolent dictator" made real and set in a fantasy world.

Doesn't even Sam imagine himself as the greatest gardener of all times when he holds the ring?

@@wjzav1971 Hence why hobbits are such good ringbearers. They're more or less content in their existence and the only things they can be offered are superfluous even to their small scope of the world.

@Aung Ramen Fully agree. -While defeating Melkor during the Battle of the Powers indeed devastated a great junk of land, they left the job incomplete. They simply brought Melkor in chains to Valinor and stayed there for three ages. They apparently forgot that Melkor had a lot of servants. Sauron, the Balrogs, other corrupted Maiar, the Orcs and other creatures stayed hidden on Middle-Earth. They even attacked Thingol's realm while Melkor was still imprisoned. Had they dealt with this issue, Melkor might have been eaten by Ungoliant, as he was saved by the Balrogs, and even if he didn't, he would have been forced to start from scratch, and a lot of death and suffering would have been avoided. -The Valar knew that the Men would soon awaken, but they never attempted to teach them like they did with the Elves. And yet they seemed surprised that so many of them entered Beleriand already corrupted by Morgoth. -Turgon sent several times ships to Valinor in order to ask the Valar for aid. And every time, Ulmo pretty much denied this. They only accepted after Earendil came with a Silmarill, and by that time Beleriand was already in ruins and pretty much in Morgoth's control. -After defeating Morgoth for good, they once again forgot to deal witth Morgoth's servants. Sauron would become the Second Dark Lord and torment Middle-Earth for two ages, the dragons and balrogs would cause a lot of damage, the men that served Morgoth would corrupt others, and the orcs would become Sauron's servants. Sauron even managed to corrrupt pretty much all of Numenor. And while they did send the Five Wizards, they only did this in the Third Age, and even then one of them, Saruman, ended up corrupted. And even then, Sauron only lost because Gollum tripped and fell onto the volcano.

Can I have the discord link?

I think the biggest problem is the valar don't really understand men. Men die and leave the world to be with Eru into a blessed world where not even they know. They know and "prefer" elves because they know and understand them. They don't hate men or wish any harm but their lack of trust in Eru and not willing to put up a fight against Melkor allowed gave him the time to create his forces.

Wait, they're teachers and *guides* but don't want to *lead* the Children of Eru? Mh something here isn't right...

@@lisboah Lemme begin with saying that this will be a really long comment, and that everything said in it is my personal interpretation and opinion on the whole topic, however i'm pretty sure most of the statements made here are pretty objective as a whole. The Valar were proud asses from the start. After defeating Melkor in the Battle of The Powers they went full celebration mode and were like "Yooooooooooooo we got him booooys" while: 1. It was Tulkas who did all the job, had the dude not decided to help them they would still be fighting Melkor with no progress being made. 2. After defeating him they completely forgot to check his fortresses, and I know the Silmarillion says something like "Well they didn't do some epic ultra scanning of the fortresses" but what do you expect an Elven-written book to say about the Valar? Bad stuff??!?! Hell no. I can totally picture some cartoon esque scene of the Valar having a party while Melkor smiles in the back, and when asked why he's smiling he'd say: "Well let's say you idiots forgot something" and since they didn't have the braincells to properly check the bloody fortresses before they wouldn't have the braincells to understand what he meant. And wanna talk about the absolute neglect for their Maiar? Arien got literally raped, did someone do something about it? No. Osse almost took the same road Sauron took. Mairon became Sauron, the Balrogs became the Balrogs, and no Vala bats an eye yet. Why did they get their lamps destroyed? *Because they were having a party about the food they don't even need to eat* How can the gods of the planet be this damn oblivious? And the fact that the light of the lamps didn't allow to see what was behind said lamps adds up to how dumb they were. This is the kinda stuff that made me unconsciously root for Melkor during that part of the book lol. Why did the Orcs happen in the first place? Did the Valar move their asses off of their golden thrones to go to Middle Earth early, look around a bit, make sure that whenever they do wake, the Elves will be fine, that there will be no possible Melkor spawncamping them? No, no they did not. And then they had the balls to act all sad about it when it was completely their fault. Why did the Trees get killed? Why did Finwe die? Why did the Silmarils get stolen? *Why did every single bit of death and suffering after the three ages of peace happen in the first place?* Because Manwe loved his bro too much to keep him in jail, the same brother that raped the sun lady and made Orcs, sure. If that's not selfish as fuck then Melkor did in fact do nothing wrong. And I always see people say: "Well Manwe was literally too good to understand evil, how can we blame him?" It doesn't take a genius to understand that kidnapping some random Elves that just spawned and torture them into becoming some new evil race isn't exactly good, does it? I get he couldn't understand evil, but what about not-good? Even the other Valar were reluctant about freeing Melkor, yet Manwe did it anyway. Not only was he an oblivious leader, he was also an oblivious dictator. Again, totally incopetent disasters of leaders. Why did most humans join Morgoth? Because the Valar didn't give two flying fucks about them. Ulmo is the only one here that gets to be ranted about less, he's probably the best Vala morally and showed some care to the people in Middle Earth. Why did every single person that ever accidentally thought about a Silmaril live a shitty life? Because of the curse Mandos cast upon the Noldor. And let's remember the Doom of Mandos affected THE ENTIRE ETHNICITY OF THE NOLDOR, A WHOLE POPULATION, CURSED TO END THEIR LIVES IN SUFFERING AND WATCH ALL THINGS THAT BEGIN WELL END IN ABSOLUTE SORROW AND DESPAIR. That sounds hella similiar to Morgoth's curse on the Children of Hurin, doesn't it? Only that the first one comes from good guy Vala, and the other one from the Devil, so of course the Gondolidrim writing the Silmarillion will make sure to underline how cruel the second one was, despite the fact that it affected way less people and was arguably even less cruel because of that, and they will also make sure to weirdly adress the Doom of Mandos with not as many abjectives. (Of course I ain't tryna defend Morgoth or his curse lmao- I'm saying that Mandos' curse was as if not more fucked up and should be treated as such) Why did Fingolfin die? Because Thorondor, Lord of all the Eagles of Manwe, sat there watching and eating pop corn as Morgoth crushed Fingolfin's neck, that's why. If he was there to retrieve his body and scar Morgoth, if he was able to describe the whole duel to the Gondolidrim, he should have been hella able to save Fingolfin's body WHEN IT WAS STILL ALIVE. Why didn't he? Because the Valar were still salty about the kinslaying, and since Fingolfin took part in it there's no saving him. Same thing with Maedhros: Varda: "Honey look there's a dude hanging from a cliff by his nailed wrist, that must be painful" Manwe: "Oh no! I shall send my Eagles to help him, who is he by the way?" Varda: "Oh it seems as is it Maedhros son of Feanor" Manwe: "Oh well nevermind then, that dude's staying there unless his best friend prays to me to fasten the arrow that he'll try to shoot in his heart" Varda: "Seems legit" The Valar were quite cruel too. I mean let's just look at Maglor, the homie was denied access to Valinor and lived the rest of his life wandering in the shores, in costant physical and emotional pain. Don't know about yall, but that is what's called torture in my book, also don't know about the ones in Gondolin, that's probably called "Fair and wise punishment". Why the heck would the benevolent Valar allow anyone to go trough such torment? And yes I know Maglor did some fucked up shit, but not nearly as fucked up for him to deserve *that*

I've always seen Melkor as a sort of Luciferian character: He was one of the strongest of the ainu, and even during creation he was trying to create his own music that eclipsed that of Illuvatar, which inevitably led to his downfall

@@meiliyinhua7486 agreed. That part Of the Christian mythology definitely inspired Melkor

The orcs as well? They seem pretty one note evildoers. Some are intelligent and capable, but overall they seem as a race skewed towards evil/barbarianism. The same thing could apply to the "exotic" people from the East riding elephants and whatnot. I'm not the biggest Tolkien fan, clearly, but it just strikes me that the underlyings/henchmen were all evil for evil's sake and greatly shaped by racism.

I don’t know a lot about the Tolkien universe except what’s in the movies, but one thing I’m curious about is orcs. Are all of them just automatically 100% evil when they’re born? It seems kind of unfair for an intelligent race to not have any chance of having goodness in them. Just speaking of evil characters, that’s something I’ve been wondering about.

@@pollyinthesky2957 As far as I'm aware, the idea of the orcs being capable of redemption is relatively unexplored in the books, all I'm aware of is the orcs being an "enslaved and corrupted" race warped into self-loathing, sloth, and violence

Yes *touch-his-chin. That's what I'll do as well.

Yes! He’d be an amazing narrator

Can I ask for the discord link

Idk, the ones done by Andy Serkis are 10/10

@@anonymousartist2176 yeah but he didn't write them, so that wasn't the point.

Clearly, I think Sauron hated the Valar and Elves more than he hated the One, Eru. He just made a fatal mistake in believing that Eru abandoned the world when it needed him the most. So, Sauron thought he could take Eru's place in guiding the free peoples to salvation. I wonder what if Sauron was instead told to face judgement of Eru, rather then the Valar. The same outcome probably would've been the same, but he has witnessed what the Valar did to Morgoth in the end, and the Valar were more flawed than Eru. So, in Sauron's most vulnerable, he couldn't trust the Valar in judging him correctly, and feared punishment that rivaled Morgoth's.

It makes me think of the interpretation of Satan in Mormon scripture (I’m not Mormon, just a comparative religion nerd, so and LDS people who read this, apologies if I misrepresent things). Originally, he proposes to go down to earth and force people to worship God and act morally, and God finds his proposal to rob men of free will repugnant. So after a war, he turns himself to opposing Gods plan, but he never really fundamentally denies God or even disagrees with the basic ideas, he’s just angry to have been shot down, and believes his way is always better than that of Christ.

@@yerald_a Well, God's Plan was essentially a way to separate the wheat from the chaff. The righteous return after steadfast obedience to the Laws and ascend to a higher existence, while the unrighteous get blown away by their own whims and the whims of whoever else chose their own path, staying in their lesser state and wallowing in the outskirts. And it's not that God finds the concept abhorrent, which He does, it's that He actually _can't_ rob us of our free will. Our choices are our own, even if they're heavily influenced. For example, a drug addict almost always chooses to take their first dose. And the second, and the third, until they surrender their free will to the chemicals. The choice could've not felt like a choice, since peer pressure is a thing, but that's why Christ said something about fearing God more than Man. If you stick to your morals, you only lose friends you probably shouldn't have in the first place. It's not a nuanced determination, but God's said he's not a respecter of persons, meaning all his laws apply to everyone, from stablehands to emperors. As for Satan's motivations, Christ called him "A liar and a murderer from the beginning". Satan didn't actually care about us, he just wanted the glory of not presenting a single failed result at the end of the project. "Overly ambitious in a selfish way, to the detriment of everyone else" is a good way to describe him, which actually describes Morgoth and Sauron too, come to think of it. And now I've written an essay in a KZfaq comment. Great.

I think the Rings would still have been made, but he would have resisted the temptation to make the One Ring to Rule them All.

@@ziephel-6780 I honestly feel the Valar would have forgiven Sauron if he repented and went to Valinor at the end of the War of Wrath, mostly because at that time his crimes pale in comparison to Morgoth’s sheer scale of malice.

He is however being communal in wanting to give the Mithril to every elf, and is willing to give up his dining table to Durin on a whim.

Did Napoleon ever care about non-French people? Also, many humble tyrants retired happy, such as Sulla. Ultimately, the universe doesn't reward morality, but it does reward humility quite a bit. The epitaph of Sulla "No friend has ever served me, and no enemy has ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full" shows his character in a nutshell.

If The Stranger is Sauron we'd likely see that, but then that makes all the stuff with Celebrimbor needing the forge by spring and the very tenuous "we need mithril to liiive!!!" reasoning not make much sense.

ROP is a dumpster fire; give it up. This video of Tim's only highlights the confusion that JRRT brought to this whole discussion of evil. Tolkien couldn't get all the wrinkles ironed out because it is VERY difficult to do. For example, look at all the sin and evil that can be placed at the foot of the Catholic Church. Is it more evil than good? You say Sauron was torn between good and evil in the Second Age, but in JRRT's initial versions in the Silmarillion, there is NO confusion. Sauron was evil (and wicked in thought) and only PRETENDED to be chastened and reformed because he had to appear that way. He was still evil, and forging the ring was bathed in evil intentions. In fact, I suspect in his original work (Eru's music) JRRT''s first impulse was to imply that Melkor and his side-kick, Mairon/Sauron, were EVIL from day one by inclination........neither were EVER good. You can see that JRRT struggled with the notion of evil throughout his life. How could he not? We all do. Kindly look up the distinction between sin and evil. You'll find that we humans fall prey to both. However, most of us do good things from time to time, things that aid or support others. Name me one GOOD thing that Melkor or Sauron ever did. I can't think of one.

Its only for galadriel as an excuse to exiled her 😂

Travel to Valinor was NOT his to give...not then or ever. The Noldor were EXILES and they exiled themselves and when they refused to return immediately, they were no longer given a choice. Only the Valar themselves could countermand that punishment. Once Morgoth was overthrown, those Exiles that were still alive and pardoned by the Valar were allowed to return, but the Exiled one must ask for it and be granted it. Other elves could freely go to the Havens and seek out Valinor, but for them it is part summons, part longing that can no longer be denied. Galadriel was a leading force and wanted to rule her own fiefdom, a place where she was accounted as high as any of the princes of the Noldor (her brothers, uncles, and cousins) and that need did NOT abate until all hope? wish? temptation? to rule as if she were a Vala in Valinor was gone. "I cannot deny that my heart has greatly desired..." SHE WANTED TO RUN THINGS HERSELF, and not until she accepted that Lothlorien would fade to nothing but a memory, with or without her - she could do the right thing and let go, or she could take the Ring and become the new Sauron and bring all the world to greater misery than Sauron himself could manage (and still lose eventually and lose herself and her land absolutely) - she made the right choice, and THEN she was fully pardoned to return to Valinor, the land of her birth. To negate that immense sacrifice?? Boy did the showrunners blow it.

Totally true, one of the few things that reeeaaally bug me from the show, as with other badly done things, what angers me is how easy it would have been to take the story that way but without breaking the lore. Just exile Galadriel, or take away control of her armies, just don't turn around the most important part of elvish lore, the sailing back west...

There ended up being alot to dislike about that show huh?

There's definitely truth in what you said, but that's overall an inaccurate and wishful reading of Tolkien. Melkor was not any more or less creative than any of the other Valar. What he desired was to twist creation to his will so as to make him supreme over all of it. Meanwhile the other Valar, inspired by Eru, created that which was for the benefit of all and in service to the children of Eru, the Elves and Men. Where Melkor created selfishly, the Valar created selflessly. Melkor enthralled creation and bent it to his will while Eru and the Valar shepherded creation and allowed it to grow and flourish mostly independently. Sauron and Saruman's 'creation' was a pale imitation of the goals of Morgoth - they create so that they can dominate

"I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of all the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair. Wherever they go, evil shall arise. Whenever they speak, their words shall bring ill counsel. Whatsoever they do shall turn against them. They shall die without hope, cursing both life and death..." - Melkor, your standard altruistic revolutionary

@@tiberiuscodius5828 "Nothing begins evil." And yes, that includes Melkor. His very first motivation was wanting to bring life to the void. That doesn't mean that he was more creative than the other Valar (although Tolkien said that he was the greatest of all of them and even Aule, who he considered a master creator, was not as good as him) but he had independent ideas of creativity separate from Eru's plan. That is not inherently an evil motivation but in Tolkien's natural hierarchy any deviation from Eru's plan is the seed of evil. Notice when Aule created the dwarves, because Eru's plan did not factor them they were "unnatural". The difference between Aule and Melkor is that Aule submitted to Eru's judgment, recognised his inferior place in the hierarchy and was going to destroy the dwarves. Melkor refused to submit. This is in no way saying Melkor was good, but he is, like Sauron and Feanor, a rebel creative, and it is what led to their tragic fates.

I mean, there are natural hierarchies in a sense. Humans>Dolphins>Dogs>Insects>Bactrtia>a rock. It doesen't mean slavery and oppression, it just means some beings are higher than others. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.

@@XavionofThera Except we do not have an objective guideline to build hierarchies like that. Who decides what are the criteria? The humans? Terribly convenient for us. We used to enslave people with this line of reasoning.

How does she manage that?

@@Kenfren Well I didn't finish the first book, but around where I stopped she was having a captured enemy commander gangraped by demons so she could break them and turn them to her side.... So you can probably fill in the blanks from there.

Black Company is a great series.

@@nattteo yeah, I'm not sure the way she should be proud of that accomplishment

And for the record, she ends up going to the good... well, as good as anybody gets in Black Company. No spoilers beyond that, but it's well worth a read

I just burst out laughing

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Lets be honest we waited so long for this: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o6mWjMxom5mYook.html

If there really is one, I'd probably read it

😂 I laughed out loud when I saw that.

Obviously everything we do is physical because we live in a physical world. Sparing Gollum was an act of mercy and Frodo chose to trust him even though he had no reason to. Compassion, empathy, and faith all had a hand in those decisions and all three are usually frowned upon by the pragmatic materialists who believe that one's own life is the only thing of importance and therefore any potential threat/enemy must be destroyed immediately.

@@benjamintillema3572 If we wanted to get pretentiously technical, we could say that "compassion, empathy, and faith" are all just altruistic natural behaviors hardwired into us by biology (i.e physical) so that we can preserve and propagate our genes.

Even in physical apperance Jyg is very similar to sauron

Agreed. Material conditions are a thing, and science is real...but the truest purpose of understanding and wielding such things for good has to be in service of the intangibles that make life, Life: respect for thriving diversities, for growth (as far as actualization of living, breathing beings -- not dead profits) sustainability, agency and choice... culminating in healthy and consensual relationships and connections with oneself, with others, and with the Earth/Nature.

Can I ask for the discord link

I'm not so sure about that. It's well known that Tolkien hated allegory.

@@RbkARI just because someone hates or dislikes allegory doesn't mean he didn't use allegory.

Or all her attitude that made him think, “killing some people is justified.”

@@docstockandbarrel Good point, although since I think the “real” Galadriel acted more like a mature, charismatic 3,000 year old elf rather than an angsty teenage Karen like the Amazon version of Galadriel, that probably wasn’t his motivation in the books.

@@docstockandbarrel Oops, my bad. It’s forgot meathead. The Amazon Galadriel acts like an angsty teenage meathead Karen. Got to get it right! 😉

That series is such crap on it's own (none of it is Tolkien lore, other than names of persons and places), but even on its own... it's horrible. I could only watch first episode... then saw some reviews on the next 4 episodes.... I couldn't even finish watching the reviews. Tolkien estate has grounds to sue the Gandalf off Amazon.

@@jmitterii2 That's just like your opinion man. also, the Tolkien estate approved and rubber stamped all of this.

I think Quinn's Ideas mentions that Tolkien did read Dune. And didn't like it.

Dunno about herbert, but tolkien didnt like dune, probably because its an entirely diferent aproach to that. Maye they would hit it of, but its clar they have different aproaches.

@@RabbitShirak I figured as much... As I was writing this I remembered knowing about something like that, that's why I wasn't so sure about them "hitting it off" lol, but I couldn't recall where I'd seen it. Could be from Quinn, since I love his content too, so it makes sense.

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Where is this from?

@@alsatusmd1A13 Adar, episode 4 of The Rings of Power

Yesssss Timmy

Yes! Just like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Food and shelter are going to take priority over self-actualization.

That's very true! Someone can be physically well off yet suicidal, so psychological needs would be most essential for their well-being.

Does it not make others invisible? If your claim about enhancing the wearers inherent abilities is true it’s really interesting!

@@MerkhVision it's something that you'd learn about quickly enough if you're like me and have watched a few too many lore videos on Middle Earth. I have seen this claim many many times, and it seems to be that it's true from every source I've seen on it personally.

@@MerkhVision the "turning invisible" is actually a side effect. Because the ring is so clisely tied to the unseen world, those without the power, resolve or skill to properly wield it get dragged into the unseen world when they put it on.

Except no. Sauron 'did not permit his right name to be spoken or written' (TTT, Chp 1) He never accepted the name 'Sauron' himself, continuing to call himself Mairon, as far as we know.

Yeah, this isn't Christian at all, it's not evil to remove the choice for someone else to murder someone for example. Rather, the choice in Christianity is to follow Christ or to worship yourself. The same is true in lotr, where not every character gets a choice

@@Kenfren But it is evil To murder someone, as that's taking away their choices. As a universal moral standard, it works pretty well. The only issue is when someone wants to choose to take away others' choices. But if one were to say that's the only choice that shouldn't be allowed, the theory works quite well.

@@JainaSoloB312 except that's not why murder is wrong. Murder is wrong because it's taking why the life of another. Life is sacred and precious, and taking it away, is evil. This works alot more as a moral argument than the idea that it's wrong because it removes choices. It also doesn't justify evil. If you use choice as the basis of morality, it's okay to abandon your pregnant wife and children. In fact, if the wife tried to stop him, or have him pay child support, than she's the one in the moral wrong because she's trying to take away his choice. But the choice here is clearly wrong. There is an obligation that he has to his wife, and to his children.

It was about control. Sauron wanted to control things, and took it to an extreme, as so many tyrants do.

Important to remember, the Valar are like living, magical, nuclear bombs. Having them "interfere" in human affairs isn't necessarily a good thing. When your incarnation in the physical world is a 20 foot block of sapient molten metal, showing up to defend a bunch of people from orcs isn't going to end well for anyone.

It's funny that's we have 2 prequels shows on well loved fantasy storys. And we can see what's makes a good one and what's makes a meh one and comper

@@yuvalgabay1023 I liked both of them. Neither to me are meh

@@azaram8133 i porsenly found rings of power kinda meh(i dont judge id you love it ). I just dont like the fact that 5 episode in an close to nothing actually happened

@@yuvalgabay1023 I can see why you’d think that but hopefully the show follows the momentum set by episode 6. The setup is done and we can hope that the payoff is worth it :) One thing is for certain that we should direct all the hate for this show towards dahmer. THAT is the truly offensive show.

There is no canon depiction of celembrimbor

@@Spiderfisch There is no 100% canon one, but I can assure you Tolkien did not picture the guy as an old dude in a maternity dress, and nor did anyone reading about hin for the first time.

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That FMA reference hit me outta nowhere, lol

He probably wouldn't see it as too much of a problem; Catholicism has a long tradiiton of seperating yourself from the physical world to focus on spirituality. Certain brands of Monks and Monasteries, to Cloistered Nuns, to even Hermits.

​@@clay9617 This would be a bit of a misunderstanding of monasticism, actually. Such disciplines place a big emphasis on how you do things physically, even in things like prayer, precisely because they know that the physical matters a great deal and is still fundamentally good and an essential part of humanity. The classical understanding of virtue is directly tied to self-discipline, to gaining mastery over yourself so that you make use of your abilities according to reason rather than merely animalistic passion, and this is part of what monasticism aims to optimize. The classic motto of Benedictine life is "prayer and work." In other words, the point of monastic life is to dedicate yourself to God by removing distractions and training yourself to place things in their proper order by forming good habits, meaning that the physical is still essential, just subordinate to the rational and spiritual like a pilot directing a plane or ship. This is contrasted by "Gnostic" ideologies which speak of the physical as like a cage to be escaped via the spiritual, often to the degree that the material world is evil. Catholicism generally, and I have no doubt Tolkien as well, has nothing but disdain for this kind of thing. Tolkien's writing revels in the simple pleasures of life, like food and drink, nature's beauty, pipe smoking, etc., and casts evil as a force that also ignores the issues of the physical for the sake of the overall vision (e.g. with how nature is destroyed). Further, characters grow not by learning to cast their mind above the world's turmoil and pain or lose their desire to change it (which is something you see out there), but by becoming better able to stand against evil and fear with positive action. This leads to a good kind of order, with the right people at the helm working with just principles and leading by example.

@@clay9617 this isn't Catholic theology. Catholics, and all Christians, believe in moving away from the world and toward Jesus, yes. But that's not the same as not being physical, you are still your physical body and you need both your body and your soul. They are both you, which is why when the new world is forged after the second coming we will get new bodies. I have to double check, but iirc essentially heaven is just a holding area until that happens

I want to believe this is true👍👍