Here’s Why The 2024 Audi Q8 e-tron Makes Roman Grumpy!

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8 ай бұрын

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Tommy and Roman take the new 2024 Audi Q8 e-tron for a drive in this "grumpy guy" review.
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#audi #q8 #etron

Пікірлер: 152

@bryaninnc5511 8 ай бұрын

I'm with Roman on keeping traditional controls, like steering column stalks for the wipers and turn signals, but Tommy's comeback was priceless 🤣

@frankr111th 8 ай бұрын

Is Roman ever not grumpy?😂

@roguedogx 8 ай бұрын

They should try to get snickers to sponsor it. End each video with him eating one. Lol

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

Yet there nothing that he said that wasn't on point. This "get used to it" is just an another way of say poor design. You should need to learn how to drive every time you get into a new car.

@rdk3996 6 ай бұрын

Good and enjoyable review, nice job! Thank you.

@MrYoungNHope2BeFree 8 ай бұрын

Love the videos, the most hilarious thing to me is Roman at the beginning saying they had a chance to reinvent the car from the ground up, 5mins later and sees the gear stock, hates the “reinventing of the wheel”😂

@mortenstra 6 ай бұрын

Exactly!!! 😂😂

@herbwheeler4470 8 ай бұрын

Lol grumpy Roman is funny and hits the nail on the head most of the time 😅

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

Correction: ALL of the time. Not one point he made that wasn't true.

@akron82 8 ай бұрын

Honestly, I have always liked the etron suv and am looking at purchasing a low mile used one as the price has dropped significantly. They are super comfortable and the DC charging is solid.

@kenyattaclay7666 8 ай бұрын

Usually I agree more with Roman but Tommy hit the nail on the head with the styling, in a sense. One reason why I'm not the biggest fan of say the Ionic 5 is because I don't want something that looks like a spaceship, I want a normal looking car. As far as the shifter goes, I'm a couple of years younger than Roman but I'm still old enough to remember when most cars (at least automatics) had the shifters on the column. I also remember when more and more cars started moving them to its current location a LOT of people complained & guess what, people got used to it. The thing I hate though & where I agree with most auto reviewers is the removal of buttons for audio & HVAC mostly because it's just not safe. I don't care about not having a physical keyboard or something tactile on my phone but those knobs should be like a regular keyboard for your computer where you don't have to look to perform the function. This is something where NTSB, NTSA or whoever needs to step in because anytime you have to take your eyes off the road, even for a second, to make sure you are hitting the right button that is dangerous & it's also why you can't text and drive.

@albundy6284 8 ай бұрын

You are totally correct. My Rivian R1T will automatically disable cruise control when I unbuckle my seatbelt to remove my jacket while driving, thus slowing down like I just put the brakes on (due to quad motor regen), but at the same time the digital screen allows me to dangerously type on the virtual keyboard to search for a lengthy song name and or artist in Spotify, or screw around with the digital HVAC controls ad nauseum. Because the controls are not tactile they require you to remove your eyes from the road and thus your situational awareness. As much as Driver+ and Tesla self-driving claim to eventually remove the necessity to pay attention at all times, these software-based driver systems are currently horrendous. I was almost rear ended in my Model Y with my whole family in the backseats due to phantom braking, which if you look on the forums is a major issue, and of course Tesla isn't even acknowledging the problem. I took the car into service and they told me off. Oh and you can't turn off their terrible vision-based emergency braking even if you want to, as it re-engages the system every time you put the car into Drive mode. I'm currently looking to ditch the model Y and go back to a regular car that doesn't try and kill me and my family because it has a buggy software AEB system. Overall these car manufacturers are trying to deploy new tech faster than it is safe to do so, then when things go wrong they hide behind over the air updates or "prove it by capturing a video" excuses.

@jaybou007 8 ай бұрын

For Roman: in Québec French slang, “étron” literally means “turd”. I’m not kidding. Guess why they don’t sell well here… 😅

@bartwaggoner2000 8 ай бұрын

LOL !

@jonpetter8921 8 ай бұрын

They sell very well in Europe, especially in Norway where it was best selling EV in 2019.

@bartwaggoner2000 8 ай бұрын

@@jonpetter8921 every country should support their own car industry, I applaud them

@rcwanderlust757 15 күн бұрын

I found the e-tron shifter to work amazingly well! And especially love the pad to rest your wrist while using the screen controls

@robervin9107 8 ай бұрын

When Roman says some things are just perfect and looks at his super talented golden child tommy 4:03 that to me makes this a incredible vlog. Love you tommy Roman buddy you can still buy older cars bud. It’s fine like a Tahoe or a two door jeep.👀. Or a older Highlander. Where you just get in and jam out with tommy and Brendon and kase on a road trip without technology. And live your best angelic life

@jeffrosen919 8 ай бұрын

I’m with the old man , Audi had the chance to redo their vision and they chose the current and old look. Could have rebranded their car with a whole new look

@alsheremeta 8 ай бұрын

Well he complains about reinventing the wheel, and then complains about it being like a 10 year old Audi, what is it he wants??

@Shyska 12 күн бұрын

Audi is smart - does not attempt to board the previous train and thinks ahead. Many including me are sick of the ‘futuristic’ non-user friendly autos (nothing against Tesla’s, but you know what I mean)

@peterfessier9780 8 ай бұрын

Price is the main problem. I’ve been considering a 2019 Enron prestige that I can probably get for $40,000. What will this be worth in 4 years?

@bartwaggoner2000 8 ай бұрын

I also wonder about the reliability of their electronic modules out of warranty. My Porsche was a nightmare of modules (windshield wiper, ride height sensors, etc.) whereas in the Tesla it is all controlled by one master computer. Each module on the Porsche was over $1000 for the part alone.

@Glock7eventeen 7 ай бұрын

@@bartwaggoner2000my guy a Tesla is 10x less reliable than a Porsche or Audi.. I know a guy who’s spent $30K in repairs on his model X in less than a year and he spent a quarter of the year in the shop 😂

@dommm111 8 ай бұрын

Right Roman, it looks like a fossil fuel car BUT, that's the best feature at least for me

@ONI1013. 3 ай бұрын

Glad to see they improved the mileage. I have the 2022 eTron before the battery upgrades and my range is only 210-215 miles max on full charge driving normal (avg 75 mph).

@BillB33525 8 ай бұрын

We have the Q8 Prestige and think it's great. Been on long road trips with it and it's a dream out on the highway.

@michaelpartridge3723 8 ай бұрын

Roman’s right. I think Audi 8 I think most rear legroom in a car. What happened?

@LifebyLeo.com805 7 ай бұрын

I just bought a etron last week amazing vehichle no regrets

@albundy6284 8 ай бұрын

I am 100% with Roman, I am sick and tired of car companies reinventing the wheel and going against convention. The quintessential example is removing the AC controls and making them digital, which is a huge distraction when driving and makes me a less safe driver. Another example are the door handles on the Rivian: they tried to copy Tesla's funky door handles, except that when the truck or SUV is unlocked they protrude outwards, which is an open invitation to thieves, signaling that your vehicle is unlocked and screams "come grab me and steal what I have inside." Same thing with Tesla removing the turn signal stalk, and Rivian and Tesla removing door lock buttons, making you hunt and peck for them on a digital screen instead of pressing them where they should be--conveniently located on the door itself.

@jonpetter8921 8 ай бұрын

The Q8 E tron is a slightly facelift E tron with a better range. Audi is working on a bunch of new models on new platform: Q6 E tron and A6 E tron coming next year. And common even this E tron still has miles better interior than most EVs out there, and with the extended range still a better package than most EVs.

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

Slightly better range,. Still not segment leading. At this point, even the base models should be getting a confirmed 300mi range.

@jwest150 6 ай бұрын

We bought that exact launch editions in the same color. Love it.

@einfeldt777 8 ай бұрын

Roman, you are so right about why remove the turn stocks? Why change the things that everyone has gotten use to over the last plus 70 years. New ideas are wonderful when they improve and make things easier, however not everything needs to be reinvented. Great overall look at the AUDI 🤗

@jamesbeaman6337 8 ай бұрын

Could be any number of factors playing into that decision such as lower complexity or cost as well as reduced weight. It’s hard to know unless you’re on the design team.

@einfeldt777 8 ай бұрын

@@jamesbeaman6337 no not really, it is a huge safety problem, moving or removing the set items that everyone “should “ be using on their daily drives, only creating a less safe and more stressful situation for everyone. It is just a bad idea.

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

Far too much change for the sake of change not because its safer or better.

@andersborum9267 7 ай бұрын

As an long time Audi driver, I definitely appreciate Audi sticking to the original values of the brand such as build quality, interior, noise cancellation, driving experience etc. as opposed to littering all sorts of irrelevant electric features all over the cockpit. Let's keep those tactile buttons etc. and I know several other Audi owners that basically are asking to only slightly modernize the car design etc. but do it on an all electric modern platform. We're obviously very conservative when it comes to car designs I guess.

@rick2219 8 ай бұрын

New channel “TFLGRUMPY”. Agreeing mostly with Roman on this one. I do like Audis but the interior dash esthetic leans towards boring. Functionally, raise the main screen higher and bring back knobs for temp, fan, airflow settings and seat heater.

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

And to think Audi used to set the industry standard for interior usability and design. How the mighty have fallen.

@oldshowfanatic77 8 ай бұрын

I agree with Roman. It's almost like a race to the top to see which auto maker can come up with the stupidest gearshift design. When it comes to the operation controls of a vehicle, they need to use the "KISS" method. 🤦

@bartwaggoner2000 8 ай бұрын

Interestingly, Tesla takes it one step further by ‘sensing’ the correct gear (forward or reverse) when you activate the car (by walking up to it with your phone) using Tesla Vision.

@oldshowfanatic77 8 ай бұрын

@@bartwaggoner2000another reason for me not to buy a Tesla. LOL

@bartwaggoner2000 8 ай бұрын

@@oldshowfanatic77 Tesla is more of an iPhone purchase, though it is still really really fun to drive

@nicholassmith7048 8 ай бұрын

I love Grumpy Roman for keeping it real. This thing is a throw-away vehicle to be leased for 2-3 years. The interior is too small for a Q8 as well as being too cold and austere. The lack of hard buttons is also an ergonomic fail. Overall 6/10.

@jeevenbola7116 7 ай бұрын

Nice to see both a father and son both into cars and working together

@EVevals 8 ай бұрын

So he doesn’t like what they didn’t change and he doesn’t like what they did change. Got it. 👍

@Qrail 8 ай бұрын

Why change? My e-tron blends in. It doesn’t say “hey look at me, I’m a Prius, or I’m saving the world in my Tesla”. My e-tron has been a joy to own. I traded in an Avant, and was able to go electric on the sly. I don’t need to virtue signal to others. At a recent stop at Electrify America, a Mach E driver saw me and said “Audi makes EV’s? I never knew.” That is me in stealth mode.

@donwilber1628 8 ай бұрын

Roman is right. You shouldn't have to relearn basic functions in every different vehicle you drive. Turn signals, shifters, etc. should all be standardized.

@lifeisfuneh 8 ай бұрын

Roman got it right! :)

@fpartidafpartida 8 ай бұрын

They are both right. e-Trons are excellent, comfortable vehicles, but they do need to re-invent the brand in general and offer something new.

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

No, only one is right. Tommy is simply offering other benefits that don't address or correct for the original problems.

@paulstewart1626 8 ай бұрын

When was the last time Roman sat in the back seat? Front trunks a waste of money. I agree with him about the shifter.

@bartwaggoner2000 8 ай бұрын

Frunk very useful for stinky things like gym clothes, groceries. Would be nice if powered on Tesla.

@777Outrigger 8 ай бұрын

Kyle Connor just did a charging and 70 mph range test comparing a 2019 Etron with the new Etron. The new Etron had more range but did not have the charging curve of the 2019 model. The old Etron smoked the the new one in charging and in the charging curve. ...IE, it was no where near 57 kW charging at 96% battery like the old one.

@forgedfromfreedom 8 ай бұрын

Roman is right. They had the opportunity to make something new and exciting, and they chose to go with the exact same look at their ICE vehicles. Lol

@godofdun 8 ай бұрын

That's what some people want though. I don't want a spaceship, I want a car lol

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

You can be different, without being Korean radical. Tesla did that.

@AlvenmodFoto 4 ай бұрын

Tesla is a toy, this is a car.

@carloswasthere 8 ай бұрын

I love my 2019 e-tron. Range is not the best but build quality is far superior than Tesla

@tylersrubar6451 8 ай бұрын

I kinda agree with Roman on the styling. One thing I wish I Audi would do is make all the E-Trons look a little more different from each other. They seriously all look the same!!

@dommm111 8 ай бұрын

Grumpy Roman is the best Roman

@terryrodbourn2793 8 ай бұрын

That thing better have USB USB C in the ack set in this day! Along the same time have a rear wiper would be nice!

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

I've said that since way back. Nowadays, every outboard seat needs a port. Even new VW finally figured that out. Some even have 45w fast charging now.

@MYJ61 8 ай бұрын

Roman, when you do new from the ground up, you get a Tesla with almost everything having to be done through the touch screen. You can’t have everything. Either they “reinvent the wheel” or they stick with what’s known. Your wanting to play both sides of the coin imo.

@Marco-ce8kr 8 ай бұрын

I like it...😎 You should call this kind of video something like >>>>> Grumpy Roman review: Name of the car

@Karl-hm7tv 8 ай бұрын

Romam is funny, complains they didn't go crazy enough with the exterior styling and then complains they went too far with the shifter. Although I do agree with the shifter comment.

@fpartidafpartida 8 ай бұрын

I know this will be unpopular, but I really like the shifter.

@AlvenmodFoto 4 ай бұрын

I've had the 55 etron for 3 years, I love the shifter, supereasy and comfortable.

@FrankyRedEyes 8 ай бұрын

Roman is correct. Nice pinch point on the door Audi.

@stefanfalldorf6573 8 ай бұрын

Roman is great in being grumpy. 😁

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

Not really grumpy, when its all true.

@TassieEV 8 ай бұрын

Glad your there Tommy or this could've been a bad review. hehe. Love it, a Model T, maybe a Baker Electric, you trying to say it's that mid-life thing going on. That why Andre hasn't appeared recently til it all levels out and returns to normal, sorry new normal. I do agree with your Dad though, it is a Q8 and that back seat room should be a lot better.

@wernerengel4919 8 ай бұрын

I’m totally with Roman on this one.

@CMCNestT 8 ай бұрын

Lotus Eletre is going to be a price class above this, maybe $95k-$200k. And I love a cocoon. I wish you could spec a Q8-etron with a metal roof like you can in Europe. Genesis offered flamboyant interior colors. Poor sales has caused Genesis to eliminate most of those options. I don't think Green interior Eletre will be big sellers outside of China.

@roguedogx 8 ай бұрын

5:23 i agreee that's Q6 sized.

@roguedogx 8 ай бұрын

13:35 it was also overpriced, and once it hit the used market the value corrects.

@michaelmackey754 8 ай бұрын

It’s like Burger King, trying to make the impossible whopper

@CraigMatsuura 8 ай бұрын

At least the shiftier is in a location you can find it unlike a new Tesla where it is on the screen. Many manufactures are moving there shifts, I drove a GMC Terrian and it was a bunch of buttons. Also the gv70 is a knob. But in a location you would expect. We just got the Q8 e-tron, you do get used to it.

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

That's just dumb. I'd never buy a Tesla.

@godofdun 8 ай бұрын

When Roman gets grumpy he starts hunting and pecking for arguments and lands on stuff that makes no sense. Like comparing it to vehicles that are in a class above or below, or the resale value when most evs have terrible resale values, or the conservative approach to design when there really NEEDS to be an option like that and it's the only one in the segment for those people that's left.

@LetMeCook86 8 ай бұрын

Roman is always grumpy. Or in a rush, like every single auto show!

@ffl2609 8 ай бұрын

Oddly, Roman is most agreeable when grumpy.

@petetoemmes6673 8 ай бұрын

Maybe Porsche via VW Group won't let AUDI be the cool EV on the block. Rumored why the e-Tron GT design was toned down.

@mitchstein288 8 ай бұрын

I would agree with Roman that Audi has somewhat lost it's way. Audi used to be cutting edge, with futuristic design. Now it just looks so... ordinary. I'd like to see Audi have a jaw dropping, show stopping design once again.

@notjustanydad 8 ай бұрын

I agree with Roman! This is the flagship, let it lead the pack. It's overly conservative and should at least look more stylish than the ICE SQ8... the interior looks great but could be a little more plush, larger integrated screens and a touch of color.

@notjustanydad 8 ай бұрын

This coming from a Q8 and EV6 owner, I know EVs and Audi.

@jonpetter8921 8 ай бұрын

Audi is working on a bunch new models on new platform: the newest one Q6 E tron and next one A6 E tron. This E tron is a kinda a transition for Audi.

@notjustanydad 8 ай бұрын

@jonpetter8921 I've seen the Q6 etron, I like it. They still need to work on better interior color schemes.

@vincentrobinette1507 8 ай бұрын

~2 miles per kWh...Not good enough. Some of the full size electric pickups are as efficient as this Audi. On a road trip, where you're relying on public fast charging, this would not be cheaper to drive than a good economical combustion car or hybrid. The interior door handle thing would bite me for sure. I'm siding with Roman on this one.

@jjohur 8 ай бұрын

I agree with grumpy. Audi has not accepted or transitioned to electrification. It slapped its legacy ICE inside and outside on a few batteries.

@nevco8774 8 ай бұрын

When it comes to a price above 90000 USD then on the North American market of EVs I would argue most folks would choose a proper SUV with on road and off road capabilities, good towing like Rivian R1S instead of a conservatively styled CUV looking Audi Etron. As Roman noticed the leg and especially head room in the rear is not enough for the price, prestige. I care less about styling vs practicality since I believe the buyer gets attracted by styling but after purchase LIVE with car's practicality or the lack of it.

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

Maybe 10%T buy an SUV for off-road. Those are mostly Jeep owners with a few Toyota Land Cruiser people on the side.

@manumehra929 8 ай бұрын

So true, car overall is fine but the price point cannot be justified on this. The interiors haven’t changed in Audis in the longest time and if it’s q8 it needs to be much more luxurious. Look at bmw and Mercedes they are operating at a different level altogether but Audis are stuck

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

If it were 20 grand cheaper. As is, there's just too many alternative that do what it does, a lot better.

@waynewallace2061 8 ай бұрын

These cars are an engineers playground.

@DUBDan28 8 ай бұрын

So on one hand you want Audi to invent something new... and with the gear selector when they did... you don't like it... make up your mind! Personally I like the fact it's not a plastic bubble like most new EVs

@richfarfugnuven6308 8 ай бұрын

Most Audi buyers (especially the SUV'S) are older. That's why they kept the conservative styling...

@user-hq7yo9yg2f 4 ай бұрын

But the biggest thing what made these two grumpy is that the next day they gave it back

@daviidfm923 Ай бұрын

Damn that model t comment

@jobeytodd8015 8 ай бұрын

GRUMPY OLE MAN. Reviews. 😂😂😄 I have a 2023 Q4 ETRON 50 Sportback Prestige Blacked Out. I love it.. No gas no oil. First electric. So far, all good.

@mrgurulittle7000 8 ай бұрын

Roman looks like one of my uncles.

@krane15 8 ай бұрын

This "get used to it" is just an another way of say poor design. Modern car should not only be safer to drive, the should be simpler as well. And most certainly not more complex. I also agree with Roman's description of the cabin being claustrophobic. Like the trend to coupefy SUVs -- it defeats the purpose. An SUV should be open and spacious. The reason people are drawn to them -- over sedans -- in the first place. Between this and the Cadillac, I'd chose the domestic. Never thought I'd say that in a million years.

@JDDevice 8 ай бұрын

Actually, Audi is onto something with that shifter. Almost video game like, and your hand rest there naturally. Wow! I kinda want this car just for the shifter. I hope more manufacturers steal this idea, like they stole Tesla popout door handles (one of the most irritating theft in history by the way).😂 popout door handles suck!

@bartwaggoner2000 8 ай бұрын

Best part is no part perhaps - shifter is kind of old fashioned in a car that really is only forward, reverse and neutral.

@matthewgrear3260 8 ай бұрын

I’m thinking the Audi would be a bette quality and last longer than the model x

@bartwaggoner2000 8 ай бұрын

Looks primitive vs a Tesla Model Y etc. No rear screen? No frunk? Less than 300 miles range with such a huge battery? I am sure the price is huge, too.

@wesb217 6 ай бұрын

I rode my friends brand new Tesla model S the other day and the rattles that you can hear inside the cabin were unbearable to me. If I am spending that much money I want the product to deliver on quality and not feel cheap

@witchdoktor69 4 ай бұрын

Roman is upset that the car looks normal yet complains that they made the gear selector futuristic. Wow

@mattcalkins 8 ай бұрын

Frubby 😂

@WhiteWi 8 ай бұрын

Tell me again why would I choose this at this price point vs Tesla Model X plaid?

@4literv6 8 ай бұрын

Hatred of Elon and no need for access to a reliable affordable public dcfc network. 😀

@bostondan77 8 ай бұрын

If you care more about interior quality and comfort then go eTron, if you care more about 0-60 then go Model X.

@WhiteWi 8 ай бұрын

@@bostondan77 lol mmkey 🤡👍

@Qrail 8 ай бұрын

Here is the main reason: if you are ever in a wreck, the Tesla will be out for the count, maybe 6 months if it isn’t totaled. The e-tron, take it to any body shop.

@WhiteWi 8 ай бұрын

@@Qrail more fake news. Keep going

@jodensmith5093 8 ай бұрын

Lol Roman says perfection is boring. So no, he will never be happy lol

@arkadiuszzarzycki6779 8 ай бұрын

I would change nothing but get that ccs charging infrastructure in action. Europe did it. What is wrong with the US? I have a guess....

@GianlucaDalSanto 8 ай бұрын

So they have to reinvent the car but keep it the same as we are used to. 😵‍💫

@HowIDoThingsDIY 23 күн бұрын

Dang... He IS grumpy.

@thechicken7092 8 ай бұрын

Colorado Buffaloes!!

@gregorydavis5210 8 ай бұрын

Ya that shouldn't be a q8 q8 is the flagship that seems a step down from the a8 should be q4 or q5

@michaelwitkiewicz7052 4 ай бұрын

Roman, what makes me grumpy is you implying that China is gonna get an inroad because of the glitz. Audi will be just fine by propagating the Teutonic competent, well executed, quality finish. A thirty year old Audi is more attractive then anything BYD is doing

@IanMacKinnon-nz3oi 8 ай бұрын

Had the e-tron for 3 years and loved the shifter. Never an issue.

@robwalker4548 8 ай бұрын

Another grumpy here …sure …I will spend 3 times more than I need to spend.

@mikefoehr235 8 ай бұрын

Most all German cars make one grumpy. Wait 4 to 5 years and prepare to drain your wallet. Why anyone would buy German is a headshaker. My work van is a MB SPRINTER...already spent 3 weeks this year in the shop. Count on 1 to 3 weeks every year for something to fail. Epic junk boxes. No Toyota I have owned comes close to how bad German crap can be.

@bartwaggoner2000 8 ай бұрын

Needless complexity, lots of plastic, unreliable electronics - never own a European car out of warranty

@phillipw2493 8 ай бұрын

Why I do not like the Solterra, and B4zx

@1jajan 4 ай бұрын

the guy needs to go for a walk

@billwestervelt2393 8 ай бұрын

Where I live all the Audi drivers seem to be women in their 70s. Kind of confirms Roman's view.

@DblOSmith 8 ай бұрын

Wow, that gear selector is stupid. I'm with the grump.

@damianolesz6326 8 ай бұрын

Poor reversing camera quality.

@thebagnechannel3183 8 ай бұрын

Beautiful but the specs aren’t competitive compared to an X.

@bartwaggoner2000 8 ай бұрын

Especially given its huge battery - unimpressive range and acceleration. I am sure it is quieter but that is about it.

@r5LgxTbQ 8 ай бұрын

these are super cheap used. half price or less for a 2019 e-tron that is basically the same as even the 2024 Q8 e-tron

@islandlazy99 8 ай бұрын

Will electric vehicles ever become mainstream transportation?

@zyxlsy 8 ай бұрын

You really like EQS???

@halsnyder296 8 ай бұрын

I like the Audi styling. What? They should make it look like 💩 ike some of these “exciting” designs???

@MachoCool558 8 ай бұрын

What a contradiction by Audi to maintain a conservative exterior while “reinventing” interior components and presenting multiple touch screens. A thousand thanks for pointing out the handle pinch point flaw, to me it means the designers are not actually driving home in the cars they help build. Rock on!

@bartwaggoner2000 8 ай бұрын

Geebus, poor visibility, poor acceleration and poor headroom / outward visibility vs Tesla. Good luck.