Yeah, team Ruby has a lot of blame for how things went down, shame he’s too dead for them to apologize to

Jinn doesn't know the future, just the present and past. Also, they had no idea Salem herself was coming until she was there.

​@@HenryGray-sy4puyeah but they could have asked what is Salem planning

@@xandersegovia4120 Salem's MO so far has been to send a few minions to work out their own plans. She appeared to be doing exactly that throughout V7, meaning there'd be no indication for them to waste their last question on something they already thought they knew the answer to.

@@HenryGray-sy4pu the heroes wouldn't know that and it would lead them to discover that atlas was next and that Salem planned to go there in person who they know they can't beat so it gives them time to plan a defense or to run away

yeah, he should've just shot cinder either way

As a last act of trying to redeem himself, yeah, I had expected that too given his personality. It's my main beef with how Roosterteeth handled Ironwood's turn out of left field when he was getting better and just hard nosedived toward antagonist that couldn't be reasoned with when all he wanted was to protect Atlas and it's people...Including Mantle. Why the hell would he choose to shoot down drone driven ships meant to pick up civilians when them being transported to Atlas would FORCE RWBY to a negotiating table in exchange for their safety by his men? No reason to stop them from doing it if none of his men was expected to pick them up and transport them on their own. It would put everyone on Atlas and needing HIS forces again to keep them safe. From there he could just play keep away with the vault until they was willing to agree to his plan. But nope, Roosteeth thought he should threaten Mantle with a bomb....Really? Now his plan was bad, but they had no better plans to counter with beyond hold out and hope for reinforcement to arrive from the rest of the world. A plan doomed to fail, even if they tried it. Not that sending people to Vacuo was much better, the one country that hates Atlasians the most given they was at war with each other in the great war and they're life styles are complete opposites. If they hated Raven, they should've known going to Vacuo is a bad idea as it's teeming with people who have a survival of the fittest mentality there.

I feel like it kinda makes sense. They leaned into this game of chess that Salem/Cinder and Ironwood where playing pretty heavily. And like Cinder said it was checkmate there was no move left for Ironwood so he just accepted his defeat.

@@matthewriddle2698 he knew there wasn't much time. that bomb was meant to make time before oscar safely nuked salem. his thought process was they're keeping penny away so we don't fly off to space so the people of mantle can get to safety. so the man said if altus is going to die trying to save mantle let get rid of mantle first or they bring me the key to save atlus and they can do whatever they want after. not a good plan by any standard but the man knew fighting an immortal was not working out at the moment but given time maybe a robot army could

💙

To each their own. I'll never disagree about wanting more spotlight for him though.

More time in the spotlight, I agree. Was his plan to turn the city into an ark and abandon the planet a good one, not at all. He caved in to his fear and gave up. Sometimes staying in the fight in hopes of seeing it to a better end, an uncertain hope, is a better option than cutting your losses and giving up. Foolish, yes, but least there would have been one more beacon of hope for the world to look to.

​@@animefan1246 he was not a fucking antagonist. All he has ever done is protect the people hes cared about. And frankly hes a competent guy dealing with a bunch of carefree idiots so hes got to do what hes got to do whether others think its necessary or not. Controlling, overbearing, paranoid, militaristic, etc. Sure. But evil? Or an antagonist? No he is not. The ironwood we knew would never have stooped to this level. But rwby has to be good and morally right and its easy to make the big military man look bad so they fucked over his character.

Trying to fly away with Atlas was fucking stupid

​@@animefan1246 He was also a good man. He ultimately let his need to be right get in the way of doing right. The people who were surprised by his "character turn" are fooling themselves

​​@@Sparten7F4rrogant in a "I'm the best person to handle this" kind of way?

@@Sparten7F4 To be also fair, the Council was the one that pushed Ozpin out. Ironwood warned Oz, and his forces were the one to help clean up the Grimm during the Breach, while Ozpin was more content with sending first-years as a scouting party with only a single trained Huntsman teacher supervising them.

Only that before "our protagonists show up." he was doing exactly what Salem wanted. Atlas was meant to be last target of her not because she was afraid of the strength but because she knew that generals paranoia will do most work for her. Plan change because Ozpin was only person that could make him get back to his senses. Ironwood is and always was blunt instrument, he try to solve every problem with direct use of force which is very ill suited for war against Salem.

@Sparten7F4 Can Y'all kiss already or something. You guys have been blowing up my phone with your endless debate XD

@TheSupermario812 same goes for you. Kiss him already and be done with it. I'm over seeing y'all constantly fight for something so pointless.

I mean it does give off the perfect amount of Daddy energy that we all need in our life.

Its one of the things that turned me off the series his whole change just seemed wrong at least with Danzo or some other characters they went from someone you didn't like to someone you absolutely hated in way that felt actually natural. Its almost like they changed him without actually having a plan and it just bothered me even at his introduction he never seemed like a genocidal moron it felt like his original character was doing what was necessary with machines so Huntsman wouldn't have to sacrifice themselves so his sudden turn again just felt wrong.

alot of it has to do with is semblance as well since its passive like qrows

@@spoopyboi1005 His semblance makes him hyperfocus and remove doubt but in the end what he chooses to focus on is up to him.

@@EmptyMan000 exactly he was focused on protecting his kingdom

@@EmptyMan000 Yeah, semblances are after all vastly considered to be a manifestation of who the person is. Ironwood's semblance is nothing but the canonical explanation to his practically superhuman resolve to do horrible things even when he himself is not unfeeling.

​@@EmptyMan000 too bad they couldnt say that in the actual show

A tragedy if there ever was one...

More like rwby and his friends fail at helping him take such burden

Awe danks! He's probably my 3rd. Somehow he grew on me during the hiatus XD Well even more then the love I had for him already.

Love him or hate him, Ironwood was a fascinating character, and I enjoyed most of his run. Tragic and dangerous, yet sympathetic, as many of the best antiheros/ fallen heroes are. I still enjoyed Volume 8, but the lack of effort in writing Ironwood after Volume 7 was definitely its' weakest point, and the flawed pacing made his final descent into darkness in "Ultimatum" seem rushed and extreme. I fully expected him to die (and made my peace with his not being redeemed in the process- we can always hope, but as in life, there is never a guarantee), but I hope he is not forgotten, given that Oz was willing to remember that slimeball Lionheart after YEARS of exposed corruption... Anyway, I appreciate you making this AMV. Caleb Hyles killed it.

Hmmmmm. I dont entirely agree with everyone who says his character was wasted potential or poor writing but I do agree about hoping he is not forgotten. If a Crack theory of mine has any chance at being true then I don't think we've seen the last of Ironwood actually. Either way he is one of my favs for sure!

@@alexwyman7048 I agree, I'm for Ironwood being a fallen hero but I wish the other characters showed him more sympathy 😭😭😭 His arc is SO fascinating but it deserved more care, but either way he was the best parts about V7+8 😤

@@atlesianphoenix ^^^ I'm praying he crawled into the open Vault 😭

Not even that. It's just the ability to concentrate. It's like if he worked on cars and his superpower was turning a wrench really good. Whoo.

In a way they are people who were before Dorothy arrived. The Wizard didn’t learn to be honest, the Lion never gained his courage, the Tinman never got his heart and the Scarecrow is just a fool

@@castbet9183 witch raises the most important question of all, where is Dorothy? I have been watching the show and I don’t think we have seen a single character that encapsulates her role within the story. If we have, then what happened to her.

@@Jaxian99 maybe Dorothy never came to the Land of Oz?

@@Jaxian99 I think according to one of the books the fourth headmaster is both the scarecrow and Dorothy

His Semlbance is essneitlaly to remove emotion, and morality from the situation, and to force him to continue down the path. You can see his semblance activate a couple times when his eyes lose all color.

he had a plan. forward bases to tell him the enemy coming. then some people so up tell him the enemy immortal, his comm get taken down altus got hacked, plan not done, salem at door and the backup plan of fly of to space is being held hostage by children. he had a bad week. and yes it was a week at the point after the training montage

@@michaelballard4231 i mean during volume 8

By far, you have just provided the best critism about Ironwood's character out of all these other comments. You did it respectfully and you didn't have to "talk" louder then anyone else in the comments. For that, I thank you.

But, he tried to tell the protagonist, the world doesn't work the way she wants so, he got shit

Hey speak for yourself. I think "Mettle" is dope. It makes for great storytelling in my eyes and is honestly a very tragic semblance that fits his character perfectly!

@@atlesianphoenix I mean yeah, but it wasn't mentioned at all. Plus, even when his Aura broke, it made no difference.

The fact it wasn't mentioned was definitely a ball that was dropped. No denying that. Perhaps a mention in the future may happen but I'm afraid it's too late for alot of folks. I personally still enjoy what was given in places that others disliked.

@@atlesianphoenix understandable

​@@atlesianphoenix it would be tragic if not so clearly poorly used, he has people working for him, those people HAVE to know what his semblance does, and yet, in no point of the whole volume 8 was it ever hinted that his semblance was out of control, painting him to be a monster exclusively because team RWBY needed a monster to fight, not a tridimensional character that essentially had mental issues at that point in time

Fighting head on wasn’t much better for that exact reasons, plus it doesn’t matter if you save the entire world if Salem gets her hands on the relics: the world ends and she wins, everything else doesn’t matter

It's called "Mettle". To sum it up Ironwood has a will that can't be broken basically. To the point where it can hijack his brain in order to complete the task he has set out to do , though I'm not certain that last part is confirmed as canon. (You can see a couple times where his eyes become dull and lose their light and I believe this is when the hijacking happens.)

To summarize it’s apparently neurodivergence

@@atlesianphoenix I wouldn't say that Mettle 'hijacks' his brain. Ironwood still needs to think, reason, and plan but It did turn him up to 12 in a situation that was already an 11. Infinite willpower is one of the most powerful abilities in fiction or real life. Will power will let a mother lift a car off their baby, let a solder carry a wounded buddy 10 clicks to the extraction point, let a defeated man put one foot in front of the other past the point of exhaustion. Ironwood is what happens when that amazing ability is aimed in the wrong direction towards a self destructive path.

@@lookinforgoodshowsz Willpower when used negatively is how people end up with dictators.

@@EmptyMan000 Yes I agree with that statement completely. Did you believe that I was trying to absolve Ironwood of his horrific choices and failures; if so I apologize for that.

His plan was to outlast immortal with army that don't need any resources. You really don't see anything wrong with this idea? They made him "genocide general." in next season because of people like you that failed to notice that his idea is bonkers so they become more blunt with how unsuited he is to dealing with Salem.

⁠​⁠@@wojciechwerner8787no one claimed his plan was perfect. He just happened to be the only one WITH A PLAN. Team RWBY and company had nothing. The writers made him “genocide general” because they realized that they accidentally made Ironwood more interesting than its own protagonists, so decided to write him a last-minute semblance that boils down to “super tunnel-vision” to justify him going insane and called it a day. With this, they could say that team RWBY was always in the right, and that they were always more capable than the actual general, when the group couldn’t even keep itself together and was running on pure hypocrisy (going from “no more secrets” to constantly lying to Ironwood but immediately trusting complete strangers and someone who literally contributed to the death of many). If Ironwood was unsuited for the job, then the protagonists were straight up incompetence incarnated

@@sirbonk3992 Oh so following a plan that helps your enemies is better than doing nothing? This man completely ignores warning about Salem associate already infiltrating Atlas. The one known for stealing Maiden powers and his paranoid brain didn't even make connection that he do exactly what she wanted and reveal location of Winter Maiden to her. Also like next season shows Pietro had unconventional way to get global communication working. And in mother of hours they cook up plan to evacuate Mantel.

@@TheSupermario812 Ah here it is. You can't make any reasonable argument in defense of Ironwood so you attack girls. Situation is terrible at the end of V7 still girls don't have tunnel vision and pigheaded following of terrible plan. Ruby was able to notice that chess piece is made from glass and deduce that it was Cinder. What Ironwood did when she spelt it up to him, nothing. This decision would lead to Fall getting winter maiden power if she didn't stop to gloat. Luck is only reason his plan didn't crash and burn at first stage(without any involvement on RWBY part)

@@sirbonk3992 At least he's at peace now. He did his duty. Even if he had to do it alone.

You are right though there is one small detail. He simply can't change the mind once semblance activates. He gets tunel vision to ensure task is completed and seen through to the end. And his mind can't even be changed at that point.

Well put! The "Sheer Weight" of it all was expertly symbolized in my eyes when Atlas fell onto Mantle. The fact he was directly in the middle of the two (being at the bottom of Atlas) only adds to the symbolism.

@@atlesianphoenix The name of the kingdom also adds to the symbolism. In Greek mythology, Atlas is constantly holding up the sky on his shoulders.

I know, it's soooooo good. I loved volume 8 so much!

Ironwoods plan would have worked though, just not in the way he thought. The people in Atlas would have died due to lack of air and supplies, but salam would have been checkmated out of one of the relics.

@@mikemerchant9242 I wish Salem would've been checkmated but you know she gonna find a way to get up there somehow....Stupid bi-

@@mikemerchant9242 Salem has all the time in the world. Literally. She would have found a way, no matter how long it takes. It’s like she said, time is on HER side, not theirs.

@@BrattyRuby687 If that's the cause then why do anything?

@@mikemerchant9242 Because maybe there IS a way to stop her, but trying to permanently run away from the fight isn’t going to help. Besides, it’s in human nature to fight against our extinction, so laying down and taking it up the ass is not an option.

SHOUT IT LOUDER SO THE PEOPLE AT THE BACK CAN HEAR YOU!!!

Seriously though, I couldn't agree more!

@@atlesianphoenix WOOOOHH!!

Eeeeh vol 8 felt like third place for weakest volume honestly

@@itsjustvin7630 how darest thou. Btw which one was your favorite? I'm curious