Honest, straightforward assessment. Prof. Meirshiemer is obviously more open because I suspect he is older and has less to lose compared to Prof. Steven, who comes across as somewhat guarded to challenge prevailing consensus. But both respectable voices of reason

I learnt a lot from these political science professors. They nailed the roots of this INSANITY of the US and Europe.

Great podcast with these 2 experts. Nice to hear intelligent conversation amid all the chaotic superficial news coverage my the main stream media.

Great podcast! John Mearsheimer is the best❤, Measheimer speaks like a prophet. Stephen Walt a smart mind but his views are mostly Western-oriented. the world has evolved

A superb and cogent discussion - thanks for posting.

51:54 cavalier is the exact word. i take part in a few left leaning twichpol chats, and many of the people around my age group and younger (20-30) really genuinely believe that nuclear use is impossible, mainly quoting variations of the principle of mutually assured destruction, but failing at all to take into account how far nuclear warfare has evolved, the asymmetrical nature of conflict, the changing geopolitical scene, very specific hotspots such as Ukraine, Kashmir etc. it's a real problem for anyone born outside of or towards the end of the Cold War I think.

Thank you for a thorough analysis on Foreign policy.

I ADMIRE Prof. John Mearsheimer. His rigorous logic. His lucid presentation

The people you can't criticize have their fingerprints all over the US response to this ordeal.

Thank you for inviting monumental professors like Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer who remind me of my professor Jeffery Sachs another monumental genius visionary. Could you perhaps debate on the next imminent conflict ( for oil and gas ) between Israel and Lebanon while Israel is seizing the opportunity that everyone is busy with the Ukraine war to explore oil and gas off the coast of Lebanon. This could escalate into a regional war that could be devastating to many countries and people. The EU and Washington should step in and make sure this issue is addressed fairly. Many American Jews like myself hope for a real cooperative future based on respect and fairness toward the people of Palestine, Lebanon, Syria and the region since they all live on the same continent.

gorgeous discussion between 3 smart guys.

thank you for this opportunity to keep learning on how (or not) we could save our humanity

this is good about causes, but since russians are clearly winning comprehensively (contrary to what all three seem to believe), most of this discussion is redundant. when westerners speak about war lasting for a long time and end in stalemate , they forget that ukraine does not have unlimited manpower, even if western arms will replace arms they lost ( which is also not the case ). and there is not much signs of a widespread insurgency or even unrest in areas under russian control.

In the Korean conflict, neither side won reference John's comment, "one side has to win."

Always great listening to this guys.

There is nothing like benevolent hegemony it is like good devil

I can’t agree more with Mearsheimer’s remark that a nuclear war between the US and the Soviet Union must be avoided at all costs. But one thing that now strikes me as complete madness is that a possible nuclear war between the US and China does not seem to worry anyone, at least in the US. The US government thought, and still thinks, that Russian missiles installed in Cuba are intolerable but never thinks of China’s feelings while sending mobile nuclear missiles, carried on warships, to patrol the Taiwan Strait on a regular basis. A military confrontation between the US and China in the Taiwan Strait will more than likely beget a nuclear war because neither side will be willing to swallow a defeat in a conventional war. The US relies on the UN Law of the Sea to justify such patrols, being a non-signatory to this law and confident enough to veto any missiles in Cuba relying on no international law.

Great podcast!

As good as it gets - thanks for having these intelligent men on your program.

Much as I respect Mearsheimer's identifying the US provocations as the cause of the Russia - Ukraine war, I find his overall perspective hopelessly naive. How can you discus American war policy without ever making reference to the permanent war constituency within the US? After all what other country in world history has ever announced a "permanent war?" Now that that permanent war has supposedly been terminated, here comes Generals Milley and Stoltenburg announcing that the Ukraine may well stretch to the horizon. So, who does that suggest is pulling the strings of American war policy? Why does Mearsheimer never address the American military industrial complex as the driving force behind continuous war while the bellicose foreign policy think-tankers merely provide the window-dressing?

Superb analysis 😊🏴‍☠️

Not correct that the US "did not have a confrontational policy towards Russia until the events of February 2022". I clearly remember the NATO (= US) stance, the multiple "sanctions" against Russia, starting from the Magnitsky Act, the freezing of trade and other relations because of Hrondokovski, not to mention accusations against Russia for Syria, and many other instances. NATO had declared Russia the number 1 enemy long before the military actions in Ukraine. (throwing the Russian delegation out of NATO H.Q. in Brussels was several months before the Ukraine invasion, also)

How could two intelligent experts talk for over an hour on the reasons for this war, and not mention oil and gas!! the power politics of energy is one of the main reasons for the conflict.

Cheers Mate. I do too agree with these two learned Gentleman.

Terrific discussion. Thanks to all involved. This was, I understand, recorded May 10. A lot has changed since then. Not at all obvious Russia is losing as of June 11, at any rate.

excellent

Great conversation. If only more people listened we might have a more ch safer

I'm ready for the apocalypse. I even canceled my dental appointment. And, believe me, those are hard to get [[Mearsh👑]]

Two great scholars,enjoyed their Israeli lobby book

The authors of the Israeli Lobby and the US Foreign Policy.

I am agree with profesor Jhon analysis,,, it's realistik

I came here for John Mearsheimer .

Divide et Impera !!

i got a dozen of ads for this 67 minutes .. they are killing me 😅

Is this new or just putting up something recorded a while ago ?

From global politics to AIPAC & Israel, Professors Walt & Mearsheimer cover it all. They are brilliant and the tribe can't use the "anti you know what" to taint the information.

Firstly, let me thank John Mearsheimer & Stephen Walt and Hidden Forces for interesting discussion. Let me make a quick notes about some statements. The US war equipment enforcement in Ukraine will extend this conflict in time and in damage for civilians. I wouldn't be so optimistic about this solving the conflict to the West victory over Russia. This is a big underestimating and misunderstanding of this conflict and Russian ability to fight for its interests. Western analysis of this conflict is concentrating on its perspective of the tension in this region. Many sensitive aspects of it stay in the gray vision zone. Ukraine is not only a strategic area for Russia's security but de facto is a divided nation with common historical, cultural, demographic and linguistic ties, which with Western intention became an "anti-Russian Russia". The violation of the rights of the Russian population, discrimination and direct physical threat towards Russian population in Ukraine is a major motive for Russian defense of Eastern part of Ukraine. This is why I wouldn't put hopes on the quick defeat of Russia by war equipment and economical sanctions because the logic of this conflict has a long external and internal history. This is by far is not a conquest of Ukraine by crazy Putin like it is shown in the West.

I don't think the US has considered human nature or human history very well

1:06:00… Absolutely. Those who drive American politics don’t care what you or we think… we are hostages.

Best IR theorists in the West, by far.

I can surely that had the Brush admiration taken the views of John and Stephen the realists in middle east and avoided the misadventure of Iraq the world would not have vengeful experience terrible of Islamic terrorists the middle class that was persuing an objective based political activities wiped out or marganlised the Arab Spring must be seriously analysed by western analysts your discussion is very much relevant.Both the gentlemen are realists.

I think way to many, most, Americans have a video game mentality when it comes to warfare

Ironically alot of people that find John's views so compelling probably wouldn't like his politics much lol.

true and scary.

Even though I agree on many points that prof. Mearsheimer makes, I do not think seeing the world like a giant racing field and label countries such as China and Russia as adversaries and competitors is a sound approach. Russian diplomats and delegates often address their international counterparts as colleagues and friends and there must be ways to resolve any disagreements between states other than by military means. The world is a house we must live in peacefully. We are all neighbors. U.S should stay out of Europe and let European work things out on their own. There are still enough people who have experienced horror of war in their countries not to go back to the terrible era.

What's the use and importance of large military US citizen lacks everything the citizens of other Developed Nations enjoys. Model transportation facilities, free educations, free Healthcare, affordable housing, model infrastructures and etc.

The use of strategic nuclear weapons is regulated by procedures that prevent it from happening by accident. The public knows much less or almost nothing about the systems to ensure the same for smaller nuclear bombs and missiles. This also applies to me and I would like to know more, but the question is whether certain armies want this to become public information as well. However, there is an airplane that, by its very design, puts the pilot in a state of crisis. This design is not primarily focused on basic functionality, then on ergonomics and then on aesthetics, as should be the case with all technical devices handled by man, and which naturally applies to weapons. In this aircraft, the design itself is primary and designed to gradually affect the consciousness of the pilot. That plane can’t do much and at the same time is very advanced and expensive. Someone who does not understand the construction of aircraft has the impression that he does not have much maneuverability. Maybe his pilot knows they’re at a satisfactory level, but he probably can’t get rid of his instinctive first impression of him either. Americans have their own ‘code’ names for Russian weapons and vice versa. I don’t know if that applies to the MIG and F series aircraft as well. Probably not. I call that plane 'Itch', however. Because it seems to give the pilot an itch to use a long-range missile. Even that feeling can be carried over to the next incarnation or incarnations, until the pilot unexpectedly comes to a state beyond self-control. It means that he can then be not, for example, an American, but a member of any air force. At the time when this construction was first made, the two main constructors were the English, although they needed the help of those who knew something about aircraft constructions. In front of more than 39,000 incarnations, it happened that the former pilot of that F plane incarnated in Russia. His professors at the military academy were so impressed with his abilities, including motivation, that they reduced critical observation toward him compared to other students. In short, flying over Russia that ‘itch’ appeared and it was not possible to curb it. He knew he was going to launch a missile with a tactical nuclear charge, and he had two minutes of subjective balance to do so in the least dangerous way. He fired a long-range missile at a close target and no one was killed. Only a few thousand people had to be evacuated and the area remained uninhabitable for a long time. He immediately informed the base, speaking deliberately strangely but so that it was clear that it was a mental problem and that he was now able to control himself. However, he landed on the road as soon as possible and said he was waiting next to the plane. The psychologist who came to investigate the case first watched recordings of conversations with him from the recruitment and training phase, and then directly with him. The pilot stated that he cared not only to avoid human casualties, but that it was important that he failed to restrain himself and that he actually fired the rocket, because only then would he be taken seriously, which is important because the problem is really big. And it was important to warn that a similar case could happen under more dangerous circumstances or in a part of the world where it is by no means good to happen. It is interesting that the Russians considered him a hero because of that. Not only because they are Russians, but also because that is understandable. I saw then that he would be the first man in this time to fly around or nearly fly around planet Earth. And so the likelihood that we won’t forget that itchy design problem is even increased. And I wrote the song ‘Radio Gaga’ about that event. I said everything in the main and I would not analyze the details of what was said. Those two constructors are now Englishmen and archaeologists. I saw Gagarin, of course in Zagreb, incarnated. It can be said that although of British origin he probably became a Russian hero inadvertently. I guess he was a hero before. There are historians on the internet for whom the whole performance is designed to keep listeners away from the idea that the basics of world perception would be good to change, and especially not in a direction that would encompass the reality of reincarnation. Also, some historians and experts in the humanities do the same to a lesser extent and unintentionally. 27.6.2022.

Take western hyperinflation and BRICS expansion into account, it is not hard to see who will be the ultimate winner.

"Various ethnic groups with ties to Eastern Europe"

Prof Mearsheimer has misjudged how East Asia feels about America's role in balancing China. He thinks East Asia wants America to show them the blueprint to deal with China. He may be an expert about Europe and US policy towards Russia but he lacks up to date information about Asia. The truth is most of Asia, especially ASEAN, are deeply engaged in trade with China, (even Japan and S Korea) which is their main trading partner in most cases, especially the ASEAN states. The only East Asian state that is really worried about China being hegemonic or imperialistic is Japan! Even India does not want a confrontational relationship with China. The ASEAN states have furthermore made it repeatedly clear that they do not want to be forced to take sides between China and the US. Yes there may be some border disputes with China but these border disputes: (1) must not interfere with their overall relationship with China (2) the border disputes are not bilateral with China but multilateral in nature (3) the disputes are being amicably settled and carefully managed by all the states involved. Besides, the Asian states have never been invaded/colonised by China. Instead all over them have been invaded, colonised and cruelly brutalised by Japan in WW2. They do not want Japan to become imperialistic again and do not welcome the US using Japan to threaten the stability in our region, which the US is doing by forming QUAD or using AUKUS to proliferate the use of nuclear weapons in the region. Lastly, China has been engaged in developing much needed infrastructure in Asia and most of Asia see Japan and Australia as becoming increasingly disruptive and destabilising in the region. We in Asia also see clearly what the US is doing in Taiwan as similar to what the US has been doing in Ukraine - arming Taiwan, using the current Taiwan government to threaten China and threatening China's sovereignty and territorial integrity. We see this as fearfully destabilising in our region. We had enjoyed peace, stabilty and growth after 1975 when the Vietnam war ended and the US was pivoting to the middle east. We may have feared the spread of communism from the 50s to the 70s but we do not fear communism anymore. We don't see Vietnam, Cambodia or China as intending to spread communism to our countries anymore. Thus, I think Prof Mearsheimer's understanding of Asia needs to be upgraded. Prof Mearsheimer will be a better foreign policy advisor to the US if he watches this video as a start to understanding China better: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kMlirbhyqb-ponk.html

The Israel lobby was an interesting read by Mearsheimer. Tired of US politicians serving Israels interests ahead of our own

2 rock stars of ir

mr. Walt is still reasoning on the basis of Russia losing the war.... and nelieving in the military superiority of the USA - so ridiculous

WHOA! HAROLD, MR. MEARSHEIMER'S PERSPECTIVE NAIVE? YOU MUST BE HUNTER'S JAM PARTNER! COME ON. Aum... 😎🙏🐒🐊🤣🤸‍♂️

The United States house of cards is about to fall.

It would end as Korean

Mearsh is the man!!

Most bizarre set of military conclusions given what’s happening on the ground.

Neither speaker appreciated the importance of the civil war in the ukraine these past eight years - Donbass is a word not mentioned

米尔斯海默说的很有道理，但他这道嗑反反复复说了几十年了。自从有互联网开始，他那套话从来就没变过。

disagree with professor mearsheimer that the confrontation between the us and russia began in feb 2014. it actually began in june 2013 when snowden appeared in moscow

Those who control Eurasia control the World - J.H.Mackinder

The US erred in the 3 pronged effort Mearsheimer identified only on its emphasis of NATO membership for Ukraine. In fact, the formal, constitutional declaration of neutrality would have been a much better idea, signed in Geneva or (yesterday's) Helsinki for symbolic effect. The OTHER two prongs, however, are fundamental rights of self-determination and self-betterment due to the Ukranians. I would like to believe that if the US and EU formally backed permanent Ukranian neutrality, the 2nd two prongs could be achieved. But that is not certain. Russia would need to concede the right of Ukranians to manage their own economy and internal affairs in exchange for formal neutrality. Both sides would need to concede - no NATO on US side and no totalitarian meddling on Russia's side. With the right US leadership, the treaty mentioned above could be accomplished...it would involve mutually assured ballistic missile and airforce disarmament of Ukraine by Russia and US. This would then be followed by a major defense buildup of eastern Poland, but that would be a separate issue for later. Lastly, if Europe were to transform NATO into the European Defense Force, paid for and managed by the EU, that would change the balance of power for the good across the globe. I have long believed that this development will occur by 2100. One of the first clear signs to me of this tendency was the launch of the Galileo Geolocation satellite network. Mearsheimer famously underemphasizes coalitions...as the US spreads itself critically thin in Overextension as would-be global hegemon amid decades upon decades of gross underinvestment in human capital at home, Europe will exercise more influence as a distinct force within its international networks.

What if the US wanted the Ukraine War to exhaust Russia.

Let EU fix their own problems

He may say US has no confrontation before 2014, I disagree. Ukraine is NATO outpost, with Nazi as a prison guard. NATO knew shit will hit the fan, but they do it anyway. What they not expect is for Russia to hit them back harder than they thought.

My question is what if ukraine decide not to be a part of NATO, will then the war stop or not, will that be a loss for USA strategic paln?

Japan was basically designed by the Americans as liberal democracy….but in 1980s when it came to challenge the American economic dominance,look what the Americans did To Japan …. And why Japan has the longest recessions? Rule based international order? In other words,that is American imperialism…….

The USA foreign policy should be to promote economy benefits to its people. It is not necessary must be pro America, or pro socialist as long as it bring good development to its people is a good government. The Americans had no reason to bring down any government that does not support American foreign policy, if American can accept this simple logic than the world will have a happy living.

Competition..bah...it is Collaboration..dude...be aware of the vibrations and consciousness of being.

The state department thinks that both nations and people are all interchangeable widgets that are the same. In fact there are profound both historical and DNA differences among both nations and people within nations. The values of the Europeans is not the same as the values of the Russians!

Both speakers operate from the belief that the US is benevolent! Nothing can be further from the facts. John's comment that Russia wasn't considered an adversary seems incorrect. The installation of Aegis ashore in Poland and Romania is targeted at Russia, despite the disingenuous suggestion that they were aimed at Iran!

too bad Leadership won't be listening to this podcast. Worse, too bad that Big Tech is making podcasts such as this illegal. Therefore we go happily towards Armegeddon.

What happened to you john? Omg. How do u respond to peter zeihans views on the subject

Realism needs to be taught in old schools instead of this nationalist claptrap about founding fathers and honest Abe

What makes you think that russia and usa's relationship detioriated? There is a war in Ukraine after all, and russia is leading it. Seems like these countries never had a problem with war when Russia invaded German or when Europeans were colonizing other countries?

Both make an essential error, attributing their own scholar-background ideas to the decision-takers in the West. In fact do intelectuals offer justthe fig leaves for the reckless acting politicians, who think in totaly different categories. Just as a relatively harmless example being Clinton breaking for a first time with the assurances offered by the West to Russia for a little altruistic advantage in bringing the votes of the East-European minorities living in the USA. Any calculation based on such idealistic theories not inluding as a risk the wild card politicians always represent is doomed to fail.

If these two told us the truth, they'd be living in a tent without healthcare.

@30:25. I doubt if Putin made any mistake about US capability or unwillingness to deploy US forces. What he did make a mistake was in judging Zelensky. But then the US too made the same mistake (hence the offer of a "ride"). Putin was also mistaken in thinking that an armored column headed towards Kiev would result in a total collapse of Ukrainian forces. And he was mistaken in believing in the competence of his army. Now that the Ukrainians are fighting with great resolution, the US, and the Europeans, have willingly - to use the speaker's phrase - "opened the sluice gates". In a dictatorship, more than in war, the truth is always a casualty. People will feed "bull" up the chain. Putin as an intelligence officer should have known that.

Putin would not use nuclear weapons in Western Ukraine. This is a preposterous thing to "worry about".

USA has persecutory paranoia

United States became an accidental superpower! We didn’t intend to dominate the world? Until we got scared of the Soviet Union..

Five minutes listening to Fiona Hill shows what a light weight John Mearsheimer is.

Dear Hidden Forces: Are you going to reassess your asumptions about Russia's goals, capabilities in light of new developments favoring Russia?

Does John understand what the EU is? And also hasn't it, which also includes the Catholic Church, always been a problem within the United States Government? Two questions for John.

I don't understand how the war in Ukraine has shown how weak Russia is militarily. I think it's quite the opposite. The Ukraine military is/was a formidable adversary: large in numbers, equipped to high standards, trained by the US, UK, and others, it had large numbers of tanks and airplanes, anti-air systems, it is coordinated using the best inteligence provided by the US using satelites, it has large support from western countries who replenish to some extent the losses in equipment includind thousands of foreign fighters, etc..,etc... How long should it take Russia to defeat such army to be considered militarily strong? To what are we comparing this to? To the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan? The biggest threat to US and it's allies in Iraq and Afghanistan was the use of IED....that is...the enemy had to make it's own bombs....homemade bombs planted by part-time fighters...Is this to what we are comparing the Ukraine war to? It seems, despite all the media propaganda, that Russia is defeating the combined efforts of the "colective west" through one of their best proxies. If the side that is winning is weak it must mean that the side that it's losing (NATO) is even weaker.

Stephen is delusional. He believes the United States is still powerful. RUssia: Hold my vodka China: hold my baijiu

Yea right. Wake me up when china gets to the 2nd ring of islands.

Putin using nuclear weapon in Ukraine- nonsense.

Why didn’t these guys know Russia was/is winning?

Finally....Mr. Walt somewhat reluctantly and so quickly that it's hard to notice, gives the MOST important reason for NATO expansion: The freely elected government's of Eastern Europe expressed the will or its respective electorates and APPLIED for membership! No matter how much the US might or might not have wanted new NATO members, it was, and remains incapable of forcing any country to join if it doesn't want to.

Just sarted listening and really did not know either author but checking some of their books out. I have a question or a view that goes to the ideals of in our Americans not running anything-maybe saying we have or are a fake democracy. Do people see our departure from Afghanistan only done because we knew there would be a new war we would be pouring billions of dollars into would be almost like, "We got your back. Yes we are pulling out of Afghanistann\-ever heard of The Ukraine? That is whre we will make iup for us leaving Afghanostan." That would be for our military/industrial yada yada. I hate this but going to throw it out there anyways. I thought I remember hearing about one of these trips to Europe-President Biden meeting with Putin and then all of a sudden stopped selling miitary hardware to Ukraine until Russia invaded them. Maybe I am a bit too cynical because of what Bush did to America afer 9/11.

I think the US needs to maintain a consistent foreign policy unaffected by election

His ego is driving the train.

DIVIDED TO BE CONQUERED: "the nuclear roach motel: Industry takes a holyday. 😉🔭📡📱The triangle of peace CHINA /RUSSIA/ WASHINGTON/ Versailles best place for peace treaties .🤔🤔🌱🌱☘☘🍁🍁🍀🍀

Russia, America, Israel and China cry me a river.

liberal democracy? =No conservative democracy?=yes not everyone wants to be liberal wishy washy. i.e (the rest of the planet)

Biden adm fools needs to listen tp this discussion

There are more important issues among non-western cultures. It might be very hard for a westerner to understand this but there are cultures that value honor and justice above material possessions. The US economy -- whether it is genuinely prosperous or not -- has nothing to do with the outcome of the conflicts around the world. The US so far failed to squeeze the Russian economy due to the Russian share of the world energy market, but the US has imposed a much more strict sanction on Iran whose economy is about 1/3 of Russia, yet Iran has not bent its knees and no rampant inflation -- like Venezuela or even Turkey -- has occurred in Iran yet. I am 100% sure that the US can't do anything in Iran unless Iranians themselves revolt but during the Trump administration, the vast majority of Iranians blamed the US for imposing unjust (bully) sanctions and violating the 2015 JCPOA agreement, hence they endure the hardship and they will continue to endure even worse because among them justice and honor are more important than how many cars you have. West is so SUPERFICIAL in all aspects and never understood other cultures, they never tried to understand and learn from cultures much older and wiser than theirs, they only came across other nations and cultures for exploiting them and sucking them dry out of their resources. Stephen Walt with his mouth-full resume is no different! John Mearsheimer is a lot more rational and objective, although he also whitewashes the western and Israelis' exploitive foreign policy.

This conversation seems a bit too pro russia for me