This scene is great because even after the war, Kenshin was never remembered as a "hero/protector of the weak". He was remembered as a killer, and a person to be feared " Battousai the manslayer"

Judging by the comments, I feel many people have missed the deeper, fundamental point underlying Seijiro's personal philosophy. He wasn't talking about balance. And he was most certainly not talking about being a passive observer who's just "accepting and surrendering" - if he were, he wouldn't be going around randomly executing evil-doers. As Seijiro flatly pointed out, to be a swordsman is to be a murderer, and Hiten Mitsurugi-ryu would make its wielder the most powerful murderer in Japan. Seijiro was arguing that this awful responsibility must be wholly acknowledged and completely borne by the wielder of Mitsurugi-ryu swordsmanship, _alone_ . Seijiro was pointing out - in no uncertain terms - that a Mitsurugi-ryu swordsman who lends his power to either faction would, in effect, be absconding from his _personal culpability_ as a murderer. He wasn't trying to humanise the bandits and evil-doers he'd executed so far. Rather, he was acknowledging that they had responded to the troubled times the only way they knew how: by brutalising other people. So, he too would respond to the times, by paying back the evil deeds in kind. But, at the same time, he accepted _full responsibility_ for all the lives he took. Because he understood the full weight of his actions, Seijiro absolutely refused to make excuses for his deeds. He absolutely refuses to justify any of the murders he's committed by appeals to justice or ideology. To him, such behaviour would not just be an act of vanity, but also morally abhorent. At any point in time, he and he alone has the chance to decide whether or not to swing his sword. It makes no difference what cause he claims to fight for because, in the end, if he were to decide _not_ to strike, someone would be spared. Someone will not die. The swordmaster was thus warning Kenshin - who was too young and inexperienced at the time to appreciate the enormity of his decision - that allowing others to make use of his skills would inevitably tempt him to make excuses for his personal actions. This is an extremely crucial point to understand, because it's one of the underlying causes for Kenshin's lifelong guilt - he had been warned, but he refused to listen, and that made him doubly culpable for all the harm he had wrought. Throughout his time as Battousai, Kenshin tried to convince himself that he was working for the greater good. But, thanks to Tomoe's intervention, he owned up at last to his personal responsibility as a killer - and realised at the same time that he'd never be able to provide an adequate explanation to the families of those he killed. All he could do was to atone, and vow never to kill again. This scene is also crucial for understanding why Seijiro deigned to teach Kenshin in the first place: As a boy, Shinta had unwittingly demonstrated a precocious awareness of the weight of the lives he carried, by not just selflessly burying the three women who lost their lives trying to protect him, but also the bandits and the slave-traders. In Shinta's guileless response to his questions, Seijiro immediately recognised a kindred spirit, and believed he could be a potential successor. Essentially, Seijiro is fiercely arguing that one must carry one's own weight. It is morallly wrong, he believes, to push this weight to others.

It is a conversation between a mature man and a teenager. What a masterpiece.

The same story of children who ignore and ridicule their parents' logic, only to understand it years after, living with regret, only to see their children do the same to them.

This movie has some quite heavy and deep philosophy and truths. Much more than most movies, whether live action or animated.

I love how honest the scene is. Breaking down the entire idea of "the hero who protects the weak" to "someone who kills for what he belives to be good". Swordmanship is a tool for killing really strikes at the concept of ideals vs reality that was a keyconcept in the original manga,

Seeing this in the context of modern day politics, this makes a lot of sense. Many impassioned young people, without much knowledge of the world, go and join radical political movements to change the world, not realising that they themselves are being used as pawns by nefarious forces, and are actually creating more harm than good. "They (the men I killed) were all human beings trying to live their lives in the only way they knew how." Nothing drives home the point quite more than this. Even people who have different viewpoints from us; who see the world in a different way, are also human beings like us, with a shared humanity.

The original line at end was SO GOOD, Hiko turns away and says "It is foolish to listen to someone who will not listen to you"

15 years old idealistic kid with pure logic and tragic life. can't blame him

"Swordsmanship is a method of murder. You can decorate it all you want, but in the end, that's all it is."

Essentially Hiko wants to tell kenshin: Good intentions aren't enough, murdering people in the name of good intention is still murder, you don't build better world that way.

'İf you leave this mountain, you will live a life of murder under the direction of men who write their own justice.' Hiko was right. Kenshin realized that too late.

Hiko's teaching is useful to prevent personal guilt and PTSD in soldier. Hiko taught kensin to be agent of his own, not for other people. Thus taking the responsibility for his own actions. Even in democratic society, people use voting, which is the sound of majority. Things like this is what caused lack of personal responsibility, because it is the sound of the crowd & not the sound of your conscience.

"Swordsmanship is a method of murder, do you understand? You can decorate it with all sorts of pretty words, but that is what it is." Shivers.

The general thrust of what Hiko is saying is that good intentions are worthless, what matters is what you do and you can't be foolish about why you're doing it. Kenshin believes that it's as simple as "Kill the bad guys, everyone lives happily ever after" but Hiko knows how much messier and infinitely more complicated it is. He didn't want Kenshin to pick a side, he wanted Kenshin to protect the innocent, no matter what 'side' they were on. He didn't want Kenshin to fight for someone else's 'justice', he wanted Kenshin to walk a path where he wouldn't be used, but Hiko realized that pain was the only teacher that would get through to him. He knew almost to the letter what would happen. Kaoru and the gang surprised him though, it showed that Kenshin finally understood how he fucked up and was ready to actually be of some good to the world, that's why Hiko consented to finish Kenshin's training.

In the end, the rurouni resolution to protect those that the eyes can see was the wisest;not being a weapon to the goverment or staying secluded with his master.Protect,with all your might,the ones you love and care.

years later these words hit kenshin so hard that he knew his master all right after all, a pure sensitive kid like kenshin should not go to war coz he know sins and regrets would come after him after he sees what war it's all about and would made him depressed, and he need to kill more, and more, and more, and more to achieve the goal - too much weight on his shoulder. there's a proverb of a warrior that just like hiko and kenshin relationship between master and a student. - “a student asked to his master: "You teach me fighting but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: " It's better to be warrior in garden than to be a gardener in war.

When i was little i thought himura was right. But now...

The tragedy of this scene is that Kenshin only realizes what Hiko is trying to tell him after losing Tomoe. In a sense, Kenshin became the same evil he wanted to protect people from.

The visual contract between Kenshin at 1:40 and 1:47 has to have been a deliberate choice; and it perfectly represents Kenshin's youthful idealism versus Hiko's grim warning of how things would turn out.

i enjoy the japanese version better because when voice actor of Seijuro Hiko makes his speech about how all swordsmanship ultimately produce murder, it sounds very poetic. Like the words are rolling off his tongue.

そんな誰かのためにあんな心身ともにボロボロになる生き方俺には出来ないね

Hiko is spot on! What's happening in the world today...

Seijiro was wise enough to stop trying to convince Kenshin after exchanging a few words, he would not see reason since he was so green. He must have experience it first hand to understand... Trial by Fire. This is really a good conversation as an example between an experienced and unexperienced ones.

When I was 16 yrs old and decided to join party politics to "fight for the oppressed people", I was quite bit like Kenshin. Now that I'm 40, I wish I had a wise mentor like Seijuro Hiko back then, someone who could explain me why I was being foolish and wouldn't achieve my goals following the path I had decided to follow. So I had to learn the hard way that wherever politics are involved, at the end of the day the only thing that matters is the power in itself. No matter how good and beautiful words or ideals they use to masquerade their real intentions, when stuff goes down the leadership, the conquest and maintenance of power is the real thing, just as Machiavelli pointed out 500 yrs ago. If I had a clue on this simple reality, I wouldn't have spent so many years of my life with engagement and study just to help elect people as bad as those we used to fight against. Or even invest my time in those activities, but having a realistic, honest approach from the very beginning. And time, as Seneca used to say, is the most valuable thing in this physical life. Now I can understand the weight that massacres Kenshin's conscience, because he not only spent his time to be used by bad people; he also took many lives in the process. In fact, to make a positive difference in this world isn't that difficult, it's not rocket science and doesn't require monstruous efforts as youngsters believe very often. Just be a decent human being, caring for those who are next to you and doing your best. For a legendary sword master like Hiko, the best way to make difference was slay bad people he faced; for us it may start by making our own bed, saving our mother's effort and health. Like me, Kenshin spent many years in efforts and sufferings, living a depressing and lonely life just to learn this simple truth, taught by many masters throughout human existence. But it's never too late to learn good stuff and change your direction for the better.

よく考えてみれば冒頭、心太を守ろうとして死んだ三姉妹は人買いに買われて女郎として売られに行くところだったんですよね。仮に野盗に殺されなかったとしても、あの荒んだ時代の渦中、売られた身では幸せに生きられた可能性はかなり低い気もするのよ。

In short, Hiko told Kenshin that whether he banished many evil people or group in this planet, he would be no hero. Because people would only acknowledge him as a murderer.

a wise man words to a child that wants to play hero and becomes a manslayers instead

In the midst of comments and interpretations of Hiko's teachings, a succinct way of clearing things up would be to stick with Hiko's words and logic when he warns Kenshin of what will happen if he leaves his training, which might go like this: 1. A sword is a murder weapon. 2. Swordsmanship is the art/technique of killing/murdering. 3. To protect people, a swordsman has to kill others. 4. To save all people, a swordsman has to murder (at least) some people. 5. The above two axioms state the true/final principle of (all) swordsmanship. 6. I have murdered hundreds of people, but they were all human beings. 7. These people were [living their lives the only way they knew how]. 8. If you leave [your training], you will live your life as a murderer [under the direction of men who write their own justice]. 9. If you [throw in your lot with them], your swordsmanship will make you a mass murderer. In this series, both Kenshin and his master have clearly stated Hiten Mitsurugi's core principle to protect the innocent via swordsmanship. However, one key difference between the two swordsmen during this movie arc is that, in short, Hiko stayed closer to that core principle to protect the innocent by choosing to remain neutral as a hermit, whereas Kenshin initially strayed from that core principle, even though he wanted to save many people, by choosing to make himself vulnerable to wholeheartedly choosing a side of the national conflict, i.e. the Ishin Shishi, and systematically killing enemies in their opposition, i.e. the Shogunate forces, as their chief assassin, the Hitokiri Battōsai. In short, both Kenshin and his master are mass murderers by Hiko's definition, but a key difference between them point to the different moral, social, and political implications that emerge as they live out their own interpretations of the Hiten Mitsurugi. Kenshin would later come to better understand his master's teaching and adopt a neutral position himself as a rurouni. However, Kenshin's lesson came at a heavy price, via his tragic past as a mass murderer, along with its consequences, that would haunt him for a long time, in the form of his past occupation/title/persona/life, the former Himura (Hitokiri) Battōsai of the Ishin Shishi.

Funny that when I first watched this OVA YEARS ago, when i was still a young adult I thought id'd myself with Kenshin's POV. Now that I'm older I think Hiko is right. Funny thing this growing up deal.

師匠の言った通りになっちゃったね😢

It'll be interesting if the mangaka were to create a story/series of how Hiko came to who he is. I'd be down to watch it.

Sadly & without a doubt, one of the most underrated anime of all time 😢

What a confident man , trust me hiko is one of the kind.

what Hiko was trying to say is that taking sides isnt the Mitsurugi's philosophy, help those in sights, the ones you feel right to protect and fight for.

This scene captures the conflict of the principles “Turn the other cheek” and “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves.” ❤

これが若さか

Every word from Hiko became reality. The tragic inevitable path of his baka pupil. Kiritsugu and Shirou, heck let’s throw Arturia in as well, should have consulted with Hiko prior to their journey to become hero/saviour

比古 師匠が言ったとうり剣心は山を降りて少ししたら剣心は人切り抜刀斎とゆう本当の大量殺人者になってしまった。

The biggest mistake in Rurouni Kenshin was not using this entire scene when Kenshin and Hiko Seijuro have a flashback about Kenshin's immature decision. The scene used in Rurouni Kenshin just missed too much. This scene perfectly explains the entire journey of Kenshin seeking justice and why he was remembered as a manslayer rather than a lifesaver.

当時はこういう血気盛んな若者が本当にいたんだろうな 現代の何と平和な事よ

1:00 "Swordsmanship is a method of murder, do you understand?" . same words Kenshin said to bandits attacking Kaoru's dojo, however he added how he prefers Kaoru's philosophy more over the truth

I love both the English and the Japanese version of this scene. These subtitles are closer to what they are saying in Japanese but the English version, while having subtle differences, was equally poetic and powerful.

教養レベルで言えば現代の中学生よりも低い若者が、国のため、己の信念のために命を懸けて戦っていた時代があったって本当に今では考えられないよなぁ…

Kenshin said the same words in the first episode of rurouni kenshin about swordsmanship and that miss kaorus words are just sweet ornamental words..... But he even acknowledged that he prefered those sweet words

こういう教材で英語が勉強できれば楽しそう

Originally he had taken him for teaching how to protect those close to him he lacked the power to protect as in those women who shielded him against bandits. But he ended up wanting to use that power to save all others without realizing there's no saving everyone but only the people on one side while taking the lives of people on the other side. Once he found that out from hard experience, he then went back to the original goal of his master: Saving those closest to him.

*Who here started regretting their life decisions and looked back at our stupider younger selves.*

Seijuro Hiko is one of the coolest teachers in anime.

Anime has really changed, very rare to see a good mature anime. mostly these days some crappy school shit or a chosen guy with super power vs evil world.. Even kenshin's series its not compareable to this beatiful kenshin OVA

多くの人が苦しんでいる。それは、双方に言える事。どちらかに組しては、公平な思想ではない。

seriously, if Kenshin had listend to his master, he would not have lived his life as miserable as Battousai, thats what his master warned him about

比古師匠の言葉を受け継いだんだな

thank you for posting this!

This is still one of the most awesome scenes ever after all these years. I do love the English Dub for this scene as well. Shūichi Ikeda and Joe York knocked it out the park as Hiko for this.

The same thing is happening to the west now. These words of wisdom are now, really rellevant.

In a way, the Meiji Restoration is like the Vietnam War. Those who killed in the name of the Emperor (like Kenshin) and protected the people from the brutal Shogunate, were remembered as monsters, rather than heroes. Like how US Marines were treated, upon their return from Vietnam.

Still valid to this day. Describes the horror of war and the way young idealists get turned into weapons so succinctly.

It is sad how in the manga, the change is epically visible (when he takes his cape off, he waves his arm and everything around just explodes on a wave of energy xD) and in the anime, he just threw it aside... and gave a death glare to kenshin, enough. It's sad how they didn't show how powerful he is in reality

And Hiko's word came to pass. If Kenshin was into his Battousai persona until the end without Tomoe's intervention, he would be like Shishio.

I'm a Idiot so I dont always really understand things like this, but what I do understand: He is basically telling Kenshin what happen during the bakumatsu.

師匠が正論なんだよな。

As children we supported Kenshin's POV. As an adult, I understand the validity of Hiko's argument.

1:00 translation is off. Its a great part of the speech too. He said "A sword is a weapon, Swordsmanship is a technique for murder". Rough translation but pretty much the mai idea. Love that part

*Spoilers in the manga:* It was revealed that there are some instances in the war where Kenshin is tasked to protect high position individuals of the army, one in particular became a politician who outright states how he faced death and dangers dozens of times, ignoring the fact it was Kenshin who repeatedly saved him. Also people like that politician throw away the lives of his men by the thousands and later steal lands from poor individuals.

All life is suffering, no man can remove another from this truth

Kenshin was 13 when this happenned, easily brainwashed by the Imperials ... Hiko was basically saying this : "I'm okay with you killing evil people. What I'm not okay is that you do not know that those evil people were also victims, both sides are and you become a puppet by whoever you side with." What sad is that Kenshin spent the next decade with PTSD because he didn't listen to his master.

I like that kenshin suffered for his choice the arrogance of youth he learned the hard way.

"Swordmanship is a method of murder" (c)

Hence, he became the lapdog of meiji, the bastard.

Oh come on. Comment section. Give me a break. Killing an unjust aggressor in self-defense is NOT murder. You are bound to protect your own life and the lives of the innocent people entrusted to you than the life of the unjust aggressor. Also, it is not morally wrong to kill your aggressor enemy in a just war. And finally. It is not wrong for someone to kill their enemy in a just rebellion against their unjust and oppressive authority. However, all of those must be taken only as a last resort. When all practical means of ending the oppression and aggression proves unfruitful and ineffective. It is not good you only take philosophy lessons from anime and TV shows and not do your own thinking. Just because your favorite character show a certain perspective, doesn't mean they're right. Smh.

Go down there. Brand yourself a murderer. Murder is the only art a swordsman can practice. No ornamental word can change that. You want to protect people with murder? You will slaught a legion so that a few may live.

I have watched trust and betrayal probably 10-15 times and I cannot believe not once was sub, but hey that gives me another reason to rewatch multiple times over the years

2019. Look how true his words are.

Regardless of what master Hiko says, one less evil man in this world sounds good to me.

Wow this is 100x better than the English dub

People have always been and will be stupid victims of deceit and self-deception until they learn to distinguish the interests of certain groups of people behind certain words.

Having ideas like this put into my thoughts as a 10 year old made me into a dramatically better person than I would have been otherwise. Hiko really is a great mentor

“He is following his own principles and ideas…because he is pure…” Kenshin Himura was my first crush when I first saw and collected the manga! Because yes, Kenshin had the worst backstory growing up. And yes, he admitted he had to stain his hands with blood. He simply wanted to protect those he failed to protect and gave him another chance at life. And when the highlight of the war came to a climax he disappeared. Kenshin has seen it all. Has done it all, have plenty of nightmares and knows he has a lot to answer for when his time comes. But he left SO much hope for the next generation. That is how he became immortal to me. “Anyone can die. But living…that takes an awful amount of courage.”

Thanks for the upload. Ruroken is one of my favorite animes. The Japanese dialogue was very moving. I also really dig all the comments on this video. I think that both Hiko and Kenshin had valid points of view. Hiko thought it best to stay out of the politics of the time and that the combative skills of the Hiten Mitsurugi style were best use to protect the innocent and weak detached from governmental influence. Hence why he saved young Shinta(Kenshin). However Kenshin was not incorrect in his desire, urge, and need to make a difference. To quote the dub version...I want to bring relief to those who have learned to live without hope. Kenshin's tragic error was that he thought that using the deadly and efficient combat skills of the Hiten Mitsurugi styles was the only way to accomplish his goals.

the best compatability of character and voice!

I love this scene because the master speaks truth.

Powerful message! Mitsurugi swordmanship must be learned when there is no ego.

Kenshin was so naive....i'm feel sorry for him. He learn the world is sick and twisted the hard way. "If you leave this mountain, you will live a life of murder, under the direction of men who writes their own justice." Fuck...that hits fucking hard.

THIS IS JUST TOO FUCKING GREAT TO BE REAL. I LOVE THIS OVA WITH ALL OF MY STRENGTH

It's the Luke Vs Yoda and Ben argument again.

So beautiful and deeply meaningful. Wise words with a heavy responsibility. I simply enjoy this wisdom and what it entails upon those who follow upon it. It’s the truth of a harsh reality

much much better than English version

Huh. No matter the culture, every parent can't stop their child from *"learning the hard way."* That's idealism for ya!

Real words of wisdom makes you really think

This music straight rules!

00:59 A very much needed slap for Kenshin!

me 11 y/o : kenshin is cool, his master is ignore all those ppl outside 29 y/o : i know why his master leave kenshin alone

I wonder if police and soldiers, whether they have taken a life or not, ever had to make this kind of reflection with regards to their profession. To strip past the training, excuses, reasons, justifications and see the act for what it is.

Hiko Seijuro, 3X faster than any swordsman

Only a self-righteous fool would think Kenshin is right. Hiko focuses on self-improvement and protecting those he loves. Peace through violence will never last and politicians with their own interests only make things worse. Kenshin is a naive, passionate boy at this point. HIKO'S MOST IMPORTANT WORDS: "... I have murdered hundreds of evil men, but they were all human beings. They were merely trying to live their lives the only way they knew how." Hiko explains that NO ONE has the right to judge

This is a rather deep conversation going on this scene

Hm, this actually brings on an interesting Topic. Hiko states that he doesn't want Kenshin to become apart of the Rebels, because it will turn him into a cold blood killer. That much is true. But the topic that interests me, is how he views man. He claims that even though he kills evil men, that he still believes they are humans, only trying to live the way they knew how. This is an interesting point because what drives man to become evil or do mischievous deeds? The men that attacked Kenshin, are most likely poor and desperate and resort to being bandits. As time went on, like Kenshin they developed a taste for blood. Men like that are most likely desperate due to being Oppressed by the corrupt government, in which Kenshin is defiant against. I think the real question is, is that can Hiten Mitsurugi not just be swung to preserve and respect life against evil men, but can it stop one of the direct roots that causes of man to become evil?

i love this anime it reminds me memory of the old times please dont delete this video

Char Aznable teaching Kenshin, passing his skills and knowledge of being 3 times faster, also the red color 😂