From The Great War to the Second World War what were the duties of the marines and their officers stationed in ships, and was their training more similar to that of the navy or the army?

What if the germans managed (by some unnamed miracle) to capture the whole french fleet? How would that influence the war, especially the Mediterranean theater? Would the italians get some of french ships in this scenario?

Please discuss how navy ships in general, deal with their sewage. Especially in WWII. It's a subject area that is never brought up other than "sinking" some portions of refuse so as not to identify a ship. Did trash, sewage, waste, go directly in to the sea? Was it accumulated and then dumped? Etc.

Did the Germans actually put the captured port of Narvik to use? Couldn’t the allies intercept any ships or convoys from Narvik back to Germany?

Would this "last cruiser gun duel" even bode well for the british navy? Autoloading 6inch guns are a sight to behold but I dont think the Tigers would fare well against the Belgrano. The Belgrano , a Brooklyn Class had 15 barrels and twice the belt armor. I think that if engaged even by 2 Tigers, the Tigers would end up at the bottom. Which would be a major blow to the reputation of the british navy if such a minor assailant as argentina sunk 1-2 british cruisers in a gun duel. What are your thoughts on Belgrano vs Tiger. No airforce, no submarines just a straight surface action.

Profound.

I'll get youuuuu beattiiiiieeeeeee

When Drach began reciting the ships names, Lion... Tiger... I was guessing which other big cat the third ship would be, perhaps Leopard? or Jaguar? or Puma? ... then he said Blake of all things. I realized just how inconsistent and unpredictable Royal Navy ship naming actually is.

🎵 One of these things is not like the other! 🎵

Tiger, Tiger, Burning Bright?

Great story. Nice to learn.

Until the USN's Aegis system came into service SAM missile systems were very vulnerable to saturation, whereas gun-armed ships could service targets much faster and were much less likely to have their weapons saturated. It took a surprising length of time for the effective reach of SAMs to be more than that of heavy AA guns too. As you say, SAM missiles were more about status for quite some time.

As I watched the video, I surmised that the SeaCat's system would have been inferior to the two 3 inch gun turrets removed.

So with the very limited number of aa...it was actually good...? That point is beyond fascinating to me.

@@BarrettL1970 She was designed to throw a radar directed barrage of up to 800 heavy rounds per minute. During the trials they never used up their allocated ammo.

There was also a shortage of big cat names available. Leopard, Jaguar, Lynx and Puma were being used by frigates of the Leopard class.

Not poet William Blake? Tyger Tyger, burning bright, In the forests of the night; What immortal hand or eye, Could frame thy fearful symmetry?....

@@brianspendelow840 Could have used Cougar and put some of the older unmarried Wrens aboard

Panther

Lion and Tiger and Blake, oh my!

Missiles look cooler when fired, but I feel like guns are cooler to look at in general. Plus, normal guns can do naval salutes with blank rounds.

Are you suggesting the floating block of flats USS Long Beach doesn't look cool? What an outrageous assertion I say.

Who doesnt think guns look cooler? They’re a bigger power move than a little box with some rockets in

I like both. And I want them in my AL fleet, as well as sirens. I guess I'll just buy ~1600 dock spaces...

lets wait big railguns become common place

I was sold for scrap in 1982. Still here on the Internet tho, lol

Yes very handsome. Fine lines and a chiseled superstructure similar to Vanguard

Seconded ! And while the boss is at it, he can as well do the Vosper, BPB and Thornycroft MTBs/MGBs and of course my favourites, the German S-Boote (is there a better looking and performing thing ? of course not ...). Don't we forget the Italian MAS and I've heard the Americans also did one or two PTs (some fancy gun and rocket additions on these, as one might expect ...). I also have a soft spot for certain Russian boats - the cute little Tupolev G-5 comes to my mind.

Motion thirded. The duel between one of the ML's and a German Destroyer ("torpedo boat" Jaguar) is legendary. The Germans were somewhat stunned by how much resistance one little boat could give, as their deminuative opponent only surrendered after being boarded, running out of ammunition, and several prior offers to surrender.

Would like to see the mosquito fleets get covered more. MTB's of all nations would be great. I would like to see a vid on USN and IJN subchasers.

Tequila and boats!

Sounds like the Breakfast of Champions to me!

Put a splash of rum in that coffee sailor.

The Airfix one (1/600th scale, pre-conversion) is rare as hen's teeth and goes for collectors' money these days. However Revell bought the moulds for the Matchbox one (1/700th scale, post-conversion) and have put it out at regular intervals, so it's very available. I've got three in the stash...;-) I believe there was also a FROG one in 1/500th scale(?) but good luck finding one of those...

@@MrHws5mp I made the Airfix HMS Tiger (alongside HMS Victorious and HMS Leander) when I was a boy.

@@MrHws5mp If you are up for it, there's the MT Models 1/700 Tiger / Lion and Blake / Tiger configurations - and someone (can't remember who) does 3D print stuff to back-convert the Matchbox etc version to all-gun. Cost you plenty, though. ps For some reason not vouchsafed to the humble modeller, the Frog (later Novo) Tiger was 1/415 so didn't fit with 1/500 Torquay and Undine.

@@99IronDuke I did HMS Leander too!

And yet uses War Thunder ingame screenshots ;) at the three minute mark

They would have looked **sick** as secondary battery guns on some 1950s British supercruiser design. I can imagine a diminutive of the Vanguard class battleships, with something like 9'' or 10'' main battery and two of those 6'' turrets on each side

Enough! Why do we have to "preserve" every damned ship ever built? Take a picture, it'll last longer...literally.

@@richardm3023 Did you miss the part where he was talking about saving one of the 6" turrets, not the entire ship?

Yes, I remember Tiger and Blake alongside. They were just across from Rame Head, the old Liberty ship that was being used as an accommodation ship.

my grandad served on the tiger after the helicopter conversion

Interesting. It's a shame we won't see any new RCN ships for another decade. Maybe by then we'll have the rail guns sorted out.

Had the 3/70 been done as a single it might have been much more successful.but by the early 1950s redesigning the 3/70 and 4.5 Mk 6 as lighter less complex single barrell.mounta was seen far too expensive although.many RN staff and designers favoured the simplification.

Me too

Same

Same here...

Didn’t Harold Wilson and Ian Smith hold talks on HMS Tiger in the sixties? Looks like the kit was deservedly popular. Very handsome ship.

@@johnappleby405 Yes. They ruined the lines with that helipad & hangar...

It was unfortunate they did as the large number of incomplete or barely used cruisers, destroyers and aircraft carriers laid up in reserve at the end of WW2 meant the political pressure to rebuild those hulls in the USA/UK in the mid and late 1950s was often overwhelming, where the long terms interests of the USN/NATO for modern sustainable warships with decent living should have meant the end of legacy reconstructions by 1955. In other words instead of completing Ark Royal, Hermes and Victorious reconstruction two new 35,00O ton carriers should have been built in 1956-1963 and the Tiger class should have been scrapped when they were suspended in.1944. Three new 7OOO ton RN cruisers with 4 twin 5/54 manual semi auto S fitted to De Grasse, Midway and Roosevelt would have been sensible.

cheers..!

Because metal can be melted down and re-used and a country only needs a handful of museum ships.

Which is an important point for the hypothetical gun duel with Belgrano. What do you emphasize when you load ammunition in the UK, AP for antiship use or HE for antiaircraft work? Given the armor on a Brooklyn class cruiser, HE may be better there too, at least you can wreck the upperworks.

@@kemarisite my point about lack of AA weapons was in the 20mm to 40mm range as the RN went for mostly missile defence against aircraft A surface engagement with the RN and Belgrano was never going to happen as the Belgrano would never have been allowed to get that close as history shows

@@davidthefirst6195 Admiral Nimitz: "Hold those planes, boys. In 75 years Drach will want to make a KZfaq video of our fast battleships taking on the Yamato. Wouldn't want to let him down." If only admirals fought battles with Drach videos of gun duels in mind rather that sending in the planes and subs to do the job!

I think it was more the deficiency of the SeaDart tied Type 965 radar to track low level targets The newer HMS Exeter had Type 1022, and was able to take out 2 Low flying Skyhawks

@@kemarisite They carried an even split for the 6 sixers. Everyone turned-to for ammunition loading, I was teamed with another guy for moving the 3" shells onto the circular disc at the rear of the turret. They went down and were either placed in the magazine or loaded into the barbette rotary stores. they arrived in big crates like pop.The three inch were nearly a metre long and the sixers were about a metre and a half I think. She was never going to go toe to toe with a cruiser mounting 15 6" guns now was she? Even back in the day they were meant to be AA cruisers. However, that single turret could pump out 40 rounds a minute, radar directed and corrected. The 3" 180 per min. Was wonderful seeing and hearing them firing. I used to stand on the signal deck above the bridge to watch.

The story goes that the original plan called for a smaller hangar for 4 Wessex HAS-3 "camels" and retaining all 3 3" mounts, but when they decided to use Sea Kings the guns had to be sacrificed and the seacats were shoved in as makeweights.

I think the future is going to be more towards multi-role drone carriers (both air and sea).

The Tiger class were always out of time. Too late to supplement the battlefleet or hunt raiders. In a sense they are like those 3, 1917 oddities Courageous, Glorious and Furious the last Fisher battlecruisers with the same flaw as the Tigers, only two main gun turrets and therefore unable to reliably engage surface targets at all angles. If one target is jammed or damaged only one target can be engaged. The Tiger/ Minotaur series of cruisers were originally ordered in 1940-42 as a large class of cruisers with, two 63ft beam prototypes Swiftsure and Minotaur (HMCS Ottawa) of the 1940 programme, followed by 8 Tigers cruisers which were ordered in the RN 1941-2 estimates and as usual the main turrets, secondary armament and power train for this large follow on class to the Town's and Colony class were very much under construction by 1942. HMS Superb, Tiger, Lion (ex Defence), Hawke, Blake, Bellerophon, Centurion and Mars . However once America entered the war the need for RN cruisers was less and the Tiger based very closely on the design of HMS Fiji ordered in 1936/7 did not seem really suitable to pursue and check the threat of large fast German, Italian, Japanese and Russian cruisers. Essentially on 8000 ton light displacement the Fiji and Improved Colony class carried the same massive armament of four triple enclosed Mk 23 6 inch turrets each turret with 6 feed chains or pusher lifts to conveys shells and cartridge charges to each turrets. Essentially an improved Colony say Newfoundland or Ceylon carried the same armament as the Kreigsmarine Seydlitz and Lutzow would have carried on 17,000 ton light displacement if they had been completed as intended as 6 inch gun cruisers.Instead of course Hitler demanded they be completed first as 8 inch gun cruisers and then gave Lutzow to the Russians and stopped Seydlitz 95 percent complete and fully armed in 1941 rather than risk the loss of more middle class officers at sea. MI6 always maintained Adolf's stupidity was enormously useful to the Allied cause. But if Lutzow and Seydlitz were in the Norwegian fjords with Scharnhorst and Triputz would a new Tiger still massively overgunned with 3 twun Mk23 triple 6 inch turrets weighing well over 1000 tons with the turret system above and below the deck a useful answer.No. So two Tigers were cancelled in 1943 and two more it seems in Feb/March 1944.The four shaft 80,000shp power trains under construction for HMS Bellerophon and HMS Centurion, were actually split into 4 power trains of 40,000 shp fitted to the first 4 Light Fleet carriers And it appears that HMS Hawke the Tiger laid down in7/43 may have been also broken up and recycled the same way and like HMS Bellerophon reordered and restarted as a 14,000 ton Neptune class in 6/44 and 2/45 certainly the main and secondary armament for 3 Neptune class cruisers Mk24 electric DC triple 6 inch, DC MK 6 twin 4.5s etc were very much building.And it appears HMS Hawke was scrapped on the slip and a Tiger in 1944 and as a Neptune in 1947.

Not as good as a couple shorts

If not sold on the idea of polls,you could do a poll to see if your viewers would mind polls.

To be fair Drach is hardly suffering from alogathrim problems

@@derekmcmanus8615 we should vote on that... .

Ahh ballance

Lion served from 1960 to 1965, Blake only did one commission then went to reserve.She was the first to undergo conversion to helicopter cruiser though.

I remember them too in Malta as a lad in the 60s! We lived in Tigne Barracks with our veranda overlooking the entrance to Sliema, so I saw many wonderful destroyers, frigates etc all lit up at night and reflecting on the calm water. Tiger and Blake though were berthed next door in Grand Harbour.

Steve S. I also worked on these vessel's in Devonport, but unable to remember exactly which one, also not able to recall actual job I did, but was with Johny Dixons team of fitters. I started in the yard in 1962 and left in 1969, it was good work, and excellent training/apprenticeship.

@@demportboy1584 Hi! Great to hear from you! I joined the ‘yard when you left (unfortunately)! The vessel we both worked on would be Tiger as Lion was moored in the river and Blake was based in Portsmouth. Regards, keep safe! Steve S.

@@steves5172 I guess you are right regarding Tiger, however I used to go up the "trot" to the vessels in reserve to rob bits and pieces as well. I have lived in the land of OZ since leaving the yard, best move ever, trust me. Take care. Bill.

As an American that hits WAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAY to close to home

Argentina by any chance?

Just what I would expect from Sir Humphrey

@@johnlavery3433 not the same gun and shell.

@@kemarisite True. General Belgrano (ex USS Phoenix) was armed with 15 USN 6"/47 cal guns firing a 130 lb AP round, not at all compatible with the RN's QF 6-inch Gun Mark N5 firing a 129.75 lb AP round. Close, but not close enough for government work. In a straight up gun fight, I think Belgrano would have swamped either Tiger or Blake (or even both together?) through shear volume of fire on target (15 barrels vs 2 or 4) even if the autoloading British guns were able to avoid malfunction.

As far as the Falkands campaign was concerned, they would have needed nearly 2000 crew between them, which werent avilable. Part of the rationale for considering them was their flight decks were Harrier-capable so could improve CAP time on task over San Carlos Water. The extreme unreliability of the 6" guns would have made any attempt to take on Belgrano (save as a last-ditch defence) unwise in the extreme, the two Counties, using a combination of Exocet and Seaslug, might have had a better chance. After that point, only Tiger (or Liger as she was dubbed because there was so much of Lion in her) was considered a potential going concern aiui.

I think I see a torpedo boat...

@@FullSemiAuto357 never mind, it's just fishing trawlers .

I few ships i served on ended up being sunk as dive sites and artificial reef's. That puts a tear in my eye. However, in the psyche it kind a feels like they are 'still there'. Going to the breakers just seems so disrespectful lol.

@@amadeokomnenus1414 Aye.

Tiger is the odd name out. Because tigers have never been native to Europe.

Since the RN does not use People name much, who was Blake?

@@WALTERBROADDUS Maybe he trained Tigers and Lions.

@@WALTERBROADDUS Blake was one of Britain's greatest admirals. Whenever a Royal Navy ship is named after a person, the vast majority of the time it's either a royal, a general, or an admiral.

Tiger doesn't have an L? Lion has only four letters...... what r u gettin' at?

When they announced that the ships were to be completed, that was read as a voice-over of film of (?Superb, perhaps) at speed on the "Tonight" program.

The Save the Cerberus group have, sadly, been largely ignored by both heritage Victoria and the local council.

@@99IronDuke Yes, we have. I wonder if Drach will include Abyssinia and Magdala with Cerberus?

I'm sure he said that in jest. Belgrano's chances of getting into gun range of the task group were always practically zero (the fact that she was in the event sunk by the nuclear attack submarine HMS Conqueror while still hundreds of miles away demonstrates this). The bigger threat was her escorting destroyers which carried ship-launched Exocet.

People often say that old ships would make good tourist attractions, but the vast majority absolutely would not. The expense of keeping them safe for the public alone is enormous and supporters often vastly overestimate how popular military ships are. Hell, most of the visitors to HMS Belfast know nothing about it and leave knowing just as little.

Nah I’d rather an alternate universe where Lion is still in the fleet and all 3 are kept in Royal Naval Service and are modernised even more so they could last till the late 2000s or early 2010s. If only

Yes indeed , Harold had a bad attempt at trying to sabre-rattle ! I was based at Jufair , Bahrein in 1966 .