Holy trinity missing insulation!

I am in the process of getting all 3 in one go, but is because I am in Scotland. I get an extra £2500 grant for the solar & battery only when getting a heat pump, so £10k of grants. Plus interest free loan for the rest over 12 years. Solar and battery have to be installed together to qualify.

I'd add to make sure your inverter can cope with your needs. One that will cope with either a kettle or an oven or hob will mean you draw from the grid as soon as you need more than one thing on at the same time. If I could turn back time I'd have gone for more batteries and a more powerful inverter. You can add panels or batteries, your inverter can't be upgraded, only replaced.

Great topic, it’s a puzzle, so well done for mapping this out. There’s lots of wisdom in there. We did: 1. Heat Pump - FIRST! (Our 15year old Gas boiler went caput) 2. Solar (as much as you can fit on the roof). A battery system at the same time together - (When you know how big a system you need to run the heat Pump!) 3. EV - This also enables a £1500 fuel bill for a car to be transformed into a £350 electric bill for an EV. (10000 miles pa) BUT… The EV tariff is very important for the 7.5p overnight Electric (Octopus Intelligent Go with 15p export tariff for all the excess solar) and enables the home battery to be fully charged up to run the house during the day. Don’t underestimate how important this is. How do we run ours? We fill the home battery up every night 100% off the 7.5p tariff. Charge the EV when required (It’s quite alarming when you first see the numbers!) ALL excess Solar is exported at 15p. I would add that you need to be able to go off-grid, so if you’re going to spend out on all the above, add an Earth rod and a big EPS switch. As you said, it’s different for everyone, but this is what we did and it’s better than seeing cash dropping at RPI 10% p.a. Breakeven on cost is 8-10 years in our case. This depends on many things, cost of energy, the EV you choose and how often you swap it. Thank you for mapping this out.

I have all of those and concur. The other important bits are accredited businesses who are reasonably nearby (and not a bunch of cowboys), talk to the Energy Saving Trust. The other bit I noticed is that the size of the inverter is important. Off peak electricity needs changing to DC for the batteries and a small inverter will restrict what you can store.

It really comes down to what your costs are and where the savings can come from. Here on the east coast of Canada, I pay less than $2000/year in electricity, but as much as $8000/year in home heating (burning oil). People who switch from oil to heat pumps often save 70%-80%, so switching to a heat pump is clearly the first thing to do, since the payoff is usually well under 5 years. We don't have time of day rates (though a pilot is about to start), so a home battery doesn't make sense at all yet. Solar is expensive, but pays off in 12-20 years generally. I plan to build a new efficient house next year. We'll be putting in heat pumps as part of the build, and we'll have it ready for solar (conduits pre-installed, etc). We'll probably wait a year before installing solar so we can find our actual electricity usage instead of relying on modelling. Also, the current government grants only support retrofitting solar, there is nothing for new builds.

This is why I'm lucky (and happy) to be able to DIY my systems. My original system (off-grid): I installed 10kW solar, 30kWh of battery and a heat pump - under 10k Euro for everything including inverter, charge controllers, etc. Added another 60kWh battery storage and 5kW of solar for around 6k Euro.

You mentioned not putting solar on the north side. I'm just about to have it installed on the NNE side. The maths is: Costs 40% more to do that while I'm doing the SSW side and doing so will generate 71% more energy. Discounting the north side maybe isn't always the answer.

Maximum solar first, money is money 15p kWh export. Then ideally a cheeky 15kWh battery when you can afford it, and fill it at 7.5p kWh and dump it back on the grid later at 15p kWh. Then plop your heat pump on when your boiler breaks.

Interesting how the economics/priority changes based on the Country. Good to understand from UK perspective. In Australia the general would be Solar, HP then Battery. Great vid. 👍

Great video!

Insulation. Always insulation. And always with contracting an engineer to calculate the heat loss and planning on how to insulate the house. So many contractors completely mess up and leave a ton of thermal bridges.

We build a house and had planned all three. However during the build and without my knowledge my wife, filled with glorious purpose, thought it would be better to spunk the money on an expensive kitchen topped with granite work tops! We had to forego solar and battery and our most recent electricity bill is $1535.

Great video

Insulation first. Then it not just this stuff, it can be worth doing equipment/ engery uses check, like getting a more energy efficient shower, cooking equipment (kettle / air fryer / microwave oven) all can save you money. Then also it might be worth considering infrared heating over heat pump for the costs. Then solar, and battery. (But also then if you have a ev that offer vehicle to grid may not need a battery or only a small one and use the car just at the key times, like cooking time.

I would say it also depends on you current heating method. If you have an oil boiler, storage rads or a very old or broken boiler or you just want to reduce for CO2 emissions get the heat pump 1st. Regards Solar, another question is how long are you planning to stay in your current house. An option like a share in a Ripple project could make more long term sense if you move about a bit. A battery would be easier to move to another property but would still be extra cost.

Generally 'grants' are not really for the consumer, they exist to build up the development and introduction of the product. Once the grant is removed, the price will tend to fall to what the market is prepared to spend.

I did 10 panel Solar, 9.5kWh battery, 3.6kW Inverter, EV charger, Solar diverter (Eddi) & a new consumer unit all in one go to maximise the 0% VAT (March 2023). We followed that with our 1st EV (used Kona) in June 2023 & we haven't used a public charger yet. The car is charged at home on 7.5p overnight rate or for free during summer excess solar periods. Result, £1,300 household energy savings in the first year which includes the EV charging costs but does not include petrol savings from the old ICE car which are probably worth another £750 a year. I'm now adding 5 more solar panels (NW roof) to capture more afternoon solar & doubling the battery storage to 19kWh. This gets installed this month & will allow us to run all day on battery in winter & give us more options for export. I wanted to upgrade the inverter output capacity as well but that was not financially possible this time around. I will also install a raised storage floor & additional insulation in a few months in our loft space. Not decided about a heat pump yet, mainly due to the upheaval needed & the fact that I have a relatively new boiler & Tado control system. If & when I do go for a HP it may well be an Air to Air system (no grant available on these currently) with a separate HP HW cylinder e.g. Mixergy iHP. At that point I will need a larger output Inverter than the current 3.6kW which is easily exceeded if too many appliances are turned on at the same time.

Holy trinity? During Lent - nice timing! 🤣😂

it all depends on what you need most at the time, for me was how much electric i use compared to how much gas I uses so got Solar and battery at the same time.

Great video... and people are now waking up to solar and batteries👍

I agree battery is now probably first choice with cheap EV tariffs. You didn’t mention Smart Export Guarantees. I think that is also part of the choice. I get paid 15p per kWh when exporting

My journey Insulation (simple And cheap nothing fancy) EV (major savings immediately) Smart meter Smart meter tariff Smart ev charger Battery Solar Heatpump

If your priority is to reduce your carbon footprint, then a heat pump is the one to go for. That will reduce your CO2 useage massively. If you’re cost orientated, follow EVM.

What are your thoughts on switching to an electric combi boiler? I'm an OAP who lives alone in a (small) 2 bed bungalow. I feel that it is too small for a heat pump (and my neighbours are literally feet away and I'm worried about the noise). I do have a south facing roof and plan to get panels and battery asap, but don't have enough funds to do both boiler and panels at the same time. Which, ideally, is what I would prefer to do, but my main aim is to get rid of the gas and clear some space in the cupboard where the extremely large hot water tank is (where the boiler could go in it's place).

I went for in this order Insulation , LED lighting , PV , EV, cheap overnight tariff , hot water cylinder+eddi , induction hob+ electric heating to get rid of gas, Zappi , 2nd EV. Not got a battery but use 90% of solar. Adding more solar next so maybe a heat pump & battery last.

DG windows, insulation, EV, Batteries, Solar - heat pump may follow?

It also depends on how occupied your home is. If the house is empty during the day, (because all occupants work or are at school for example), batteries make the most sense first. Load them up overnight on a favourable tariff and use the energy when you come home. For the same scenario, solar would be second, because in summer, you need the grid less (even though the cheaper overnight tariff is available), as the daytime solar may be enough to run your home, with excess to fill your batteries to be used later. Also, size the battery correctly, based on your average daily usage if you can afford it (which for most is around 13 Kwh per day). In this case, I would say the heat pump is last not least because the payback would be a lot longer. For a household with a lot of daytime occupation, you might do solar first (as you use what you produce, particularly spring to autumn) whilst getting paid for exporting excess, followed by batteries then heatpump. As the man said, do your research...

Great video. We're aiming to get solar and DC-coupled battery when we move house soon, with a heat pump to follow when we've optimised the insulation. Was thinking of getting extra AC-coupled battery capacity with heat pump to take advantage of time of day tariff, but not sure if it's compatible with DC-coupled battery (even if the same manufacturer). Also, at what point will people need to upgrade to three-phase to cover battery/heat pump/EV charger demand?

battery costs coming down and also LFP batteries will come such as powerwall 3 with larger capacity and larger discharge power.

Be mindful of prospective future costs. Batteries will get cheaper, and install costs are pretty simple anyway, so waiting can pay dividends. Heat pumps can get cheaper with new tech, but radiators, pipework and labour probably won’t. Solar materials again are likely to get cheaper, but scaffolding and labour costs are difficult things to get cheaper.

Great video as always, I' m now aware that there are 3 new car models with V2H technology coming out this year, so if using the car as a home battery back up, would you need a new charger ?

I live in a village in Scotland which has no gas so essentially alI our heating is electric. We have the old fashioned two meter system where one is for normal rate socket electricity but our heating comes off a separate meter at a lower cost so for my bills I have to submit two electric meter readings. What I need to figure out is how this would work with a solar/battery system would it be able to provide power to both circuits or just one? We don't have set off peak times but do get 4 random time slots during the day when power is cheaper (EDF go figure) we can't get smart meters due to the two different meter systems. Unfortunately I'm tied to EDF at the moment or would move back to Octopus in a heartbeat. Not going heat pump at the moment too expensive as the house has never had a wet central heating system so it would be all new plumbing everywhere on top of the heating system, currently have infra red panels and getting a wood burner for power cuts and supplemental heat. Anyone had experience with solar/batteries with this dual meter system before? Or any advice given the circumstances?

Having had solar and battery recently installed we were contemplating a heat pump next. However we are on the Octopus tracker for gas which is averaging about 4p per kWh equivalent so we'll keep the gas CH / HW system running. We're getting paid 15p per kWh of electricity exported so it makes sense to keep on using gas.

Insulation first

What are your thoughts around community ownership of wind / solar farms (such as Ripple) and where would you factor it into your calculations?

Having sufficient solar to feed the battery after allowing for house consumption. I found my existing 4kWh west facing system was mostly used by my house consumption, including hot water through my MyEnergi Eddi. When I added the battery I also added another 4kWh to the East roof so that could feed the battery and ensure it is filled on more days. Other thing with an ASHP for the cost is what type of radiators you have and if it is a newer home, chance is they are good, but my 1970's house had mainly single radiators and they were gunked up so I used the opportunity to renew my 50 year old ones. This will cost a bit more. Other thought is that if you are not on mains gas, you are likely to save money and the bonus is an always warm home.

If doing battery first consider an EV with Vehicle to load or vehicle to grid as part of your total battery storage options. You can use the EV to store excess power beyond your fixed battery capacity, and then you can either drive the car or use the car to power key loads or possibly (with VTG) power your entire home or recharge your fixed battery.

I'm on octopus Agile and a battery doesn't make much sense unless you're using a lot of electricity in the peak hours (16-19). All your doing is saving the difference 20p/kwh, I'd be lucky to save 40p/day at that rate meaning it might take 10 years to break even, easier to just shift power use away from the peak. Solar is great for people who are at home when it's light outside, it's a no brainier if you WFH or are retired.

Based on my current electricity use. Getting a 10-14kw battery and switching to a time of day tariff, the payback period is 8-10 years. Sounds a long time but that is the equivalent of a 10% annual yield. My problem is finding a place to put it, the logic place outside is already earmarked for the heat pump.

Insulation goes first! Then 10 years from now, heat pumps should be pennies! 7.5k is good but if you get screwed on electricity, you'll burn through that in no time. My neighbours over the road are having so much fun.

I have to say I disagree with doing the heat pump last. Until you have a heat pump you won’t know what amount of battery capacity and inverter power you will need. Same also for the solar capacity - the heat pump will likely be the largest consumer of power so you need to get a year of running under your belt so you can see what you will need.

Insulation first. Roof esppecialy

I guess the question missing from the flow chart is "should i go on a time of day tarrrif" but i guess this is why your saying dont just watch a video

You mention the risks due to the possibility of grants being withdrawn for heat pumps. But you make no mention of the risks of energy suppliers changing tariffs. At present, you can charge a battery at 7.5p and export at 15p. But it's just one supplier that is that good. If they make changes and reduce export for example, calculations might change a lot. It would also be good to mention environmental benefits. Many going down this route do so for the sake of the planet, rather than just financial savings. Which is best for saving CO2?

No argument with your advice. Only thing I might add is that if I was making the decision now in March I’d put in solar first and batteries in autumn. By the time you get installed it will be May by then you’ll probably have the central heating turned off and your batteries will be doing very little as there will be a lot of surplus energy from solar panels you can sell to grid. If you order batteries to fit in late October, you’ll have dwindling solar and as you put heating back on you can start to maximise batteries as winter progresses. Whilst no one knows for sure, battery prices are high now and generally likely to drop in same way solar panel costs have dropped as manufacturers scaled up. I had 15kWh more installed in Jan and they cost about 25% less than the year before. So waiting till Q4 could save you more on capital outlay than what you might save over the summer with a battery.

Batteries and solar have all benefitted from tech development and manufacturing efficiency improvement. Heat pumps are more recent in this but you could end up with losing government grants now and gaining cost reductions in a few years that more than match it..

Surely you can change tariff if you want a battery?

A former colleague of mine has just brought a 6 bed house as there are 7 of them and it came with a heat pump and they are running out of hot water in the morning, they have had people in to check it out and they have said it’s working ok and they are using to much hot water in one go . He is now having it removed and going back to a gas boiler

I did all 3 in 3 months. It was quite stressful 😆 but now it’s brilliant. In Scotland you only get grants for solar and battery if you have a heatpump too. I had to get the heatpump first, get my MCS to prove it then got another grant of £2500 spread across solar and battery. So I got £10k. They all work brilliantly together. Yesterday it was really sunny and really cold, solar was powering the heatpump. Smug overload. 😆

Buy a battery first along with an expandable solar system if cost is a problem as the saving on VAT will pay for a couple of panels . The saving is VAT on 1/ the battery - inverter 2/ the panels so grant + non VAT adds up

Don't forget the 4th element , an EV - then the 5th , V2L ( V2H ) hardware

Does having any of these increase your home insurance costs? The media love a good story about ev batteries bursting into flames. Does home insurance react similarly?

I don’t think in the same way (NL here, not UK) 1. Solar: it’s just so cheap nowadays with a very quick ROI, it doesn’t make any sense to not do it today and have 15-20 years of free electricity for 1/2 of the time 2. (Hybrid) heatpump, get 80% off of gas usage with an quite decent investment (here is about 3k with incentives) and use your house as a (heat) battery 3. (If possible) ev to store all the excess and cheap electricity 4. Home battery: they are just too expensive and the ROI is way too much at the moment, especially considering that the two above probably already max out a small house Solar installation. Hopefully prices will go down. Before everything: INSULATION! So many houses are still horribly insulated 7p tariff does not exist here, but I’m very happy on hourly rates

fill the roof and get a hybrid inverter so battery ready

I'm pissed off that the grant only applies to A2W heat pumps. If it also applied to A2A then it would be covering almost 100% of the cost. Everytime the government manages to fuck it up 😡

1. solar , 2 battery , 3rd heat pump

New builds are very different

If you are prioritising carbon savings then definitely HP first. We did: 1. Insulation 2. Heat pump 3. Solar Battery may come in the future but currently not worth it for us. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nr5znL2o0brZm2Q.html

On your comment fill your roof up as much as you can. Yes absolutely however your DNO may have other ideas. More than 3.68 kw and you require a G99 for export purposes. The way they work it out is mad. in my opinion. I cannot get one as i can export up to 6 kw however they wouldn't have an issue with 10 houses in the street being able to export with 3.68kw systems.

If you have an off peak tariff then battery is a no brainier . My system is actually off grid so I have more flexibility .

Edit: I was wrong!

Deffo the solar battery, charge overnight on cheap rate then use during the day

When vat is skipped on battery, then 1) battery, 2) Solar, 3) forget heat pump

Waiting for Tesla V3 battery will save you ££

Instead of a home battery, isn’t it worth waiting for more electric cars to have V2G and V2H capability? You save the capital cost of a home battery but get the benefits of a battery at home.

So a heat pump on its own is not really cost-effective. It will only become cost-effective when the gas tariff increases AND electricity tariff decreases.

It's by no means a given that any of these will be right for anyone. .... I need 10 year return. I'm 77 and unlikely to be in this house one way or another in 10 years. I have 4 quotes all very similar. Over 10 years £11k for panels and battery ==t to £16400 if I just put the money in the bank. 4% or 5% compound . There are calculators online. I was predicted to have 3300 KWh per annum So £16400/10 = £1640 [return required pa] about 50p per KWh And ignoring compound interest about 33p per KWh I am buying electric at 17.70p on tracker but say 20p and can export at 15p so solar is a waste of money for me. Some people regard what they get from the roof as free. Oh and the cost of battery storage as zero. It too costs money to buy and they forget there are losses AC to DC and vice versa. My quote above includes batteries. I haven't done specific calculations on batteries. Whilst electricity is over 3 times the cost of gas no way is it cheaper to have a heat pump . Which would also be much more expensive than the cost of the installation when you add compound interest.

You need to put a cost for the equipment and the cost for installation. I would put money on it not saving anything before you have to change things. I was gobsmacked that you can get a grant of 7000 pounds to install a heat pump. How much do they cost? I got two gas boilers installed in two houses for less than the grant. A lot less. Heat pumps have a life expectancy of 15 years. People are being conned. Save money they say. NO you won't. For starters you have to commit to live in that house until the battery, solar panels, and heat pump fail. You will not save money. you will spend it.