Instead of ancestors I think primodal wave would summon all four elements to attack ur targets that would be cool

not you dying while 2 ancestors were standing next to you laughing. lol

thank you for making this video! the ele community have a very hard time reaching blizzard in terms of communication since there arent all that many players playing the spec. Videos like these can really make a big difference! also I completely agree with your takes - the tree seems unfinished and very rushed. there was really not a lot of thought put into the tree, clearly. I say the best way to go about changing the tree for the better would be to make the farseer's abilities interact with the ele talent tree and its effects - cdr on primordial wave from lava burst and flash of lightning from lightning bolt. also find a way for the farseer to augment our abilities in general - give our abilities special effects while ancestors are up. This idea of ancestors has so much potential, they just have to get creative and actually put some time and effort in to making our tree up to par with the rest of the hero talents. Sorry for ranting, i’m just passionate about my spec!

i respect your dedication to the spec i loved and will always love, especially at the cost of low views due to traditional lack of interest in it by the wow masses and the devs.. you have always been consistent with shaman coverage especially ele. thanks man. haven't played in 2 years, i miss the game everyday, i miss my shaman, i miss the game

yes i totaly agree with this! also on the more interesting side: every 3 ancestors, summon a champion that's like a major shaman that does something different than the normal ancestors, like a chief! but yeah the melee ancestors should also be there.

Ancestor: I'm ready, are you? Shaman: I need help with taxes Ancestor: *times out* Taxes: Still mysterious

Where are the Stormbringer and Totemic talents? 😢

Elemental needs a pruning and a subsequent rework

I think ancestors should have a 15% to proc off either lighting bolt, chain lighting, or lava burst. I actually like that they echo our skills rather than auto-free cast, but they should cast the greater spells our elementals do without CD (meteors and tempest) and cause our lavabursts to become charged with lightning for some extra damage and some small splash damage. Put a point in the tree: "If you drop below 50% health, a spirit will merge with you to heal you for 20% hp" this way they have some pvp viability if stunned.

I want Lightning Lava Burst. Meatball that's charged. Like Frostfire Bolt.

Great video Brother ! Keep em coming !

I've been looking alot of the other Hero Talents from the other classes and at least with Farseer, I kind of appreciate how it keeps it simple and doesn't completely flip the rotation around and just adds some bonuses.

your grandfather watching you die to that paladin with such disappointment in this face lmao.

Why does shaman seem to be the hated class? I first tried ele shaman back in WoD, and I loved it, it was FUN. But it felt like a wet noodle. Even Enhance when its a top parser somehow it ends up getting bumped down a few notches.

They need to remove RNG from shaman spells. The worst thing on live is the % chance to go into Ascendence talent. You always get a proc when you just kill a pack, or are walking between trash mobs in a dungeon, or right when you dont need it. Adding random % to summon an ancestor is awful. You cant reliably predict or control your damage/healing. Loss of control never feels good, nor does having your damage/healing WILDLY very based on luck from pull to pull. (referencing the lava burst/riptide summoning chance for an ancestor) Agree these need to auto fire and not mimic spell casts.

It kinda makes it similar to the warlock one, but it should spawn a random fire, air, earth or water ancestor. Imagine the fire one does lava bursts and a meteor, Air one does windstrikes and chain lightnings (or a mini tornado), earth one a melee that does a heavy attack and earthquake, water one does frost shocks and throws a water bubble for aoe.

I think its weird that shaman still only has one hero spec up for scrutiny yet most others have 3... Druids had there 4 up for ages now, it does show blizzard have favoured classes over others and its terrible for the players that enjoy the alienated ones.

Since nature's swiftness works with Flash of Lightning (LB & CL reduce nature CDs by 1 sec) I'm assuming they'd work with ancestral swiftness too. More ancestral swiftness = more ancestors. This means there are some incentives to run a fire+lightning hybrid build. I think since the middle column of the hero talents has 2 maelstrom related nodes (increased maelstrom cap and maelstrom spender damage) they need to incorporate some kind of reward for maelstrom dumping, maybe further reducing the CD of ancestral swiftness per a set amount of maelstrom used or something like that.

Great points overall! I think this tree can be salvaged with just a few tweaks. Ancestors cast by themselves but they follow the last spell you cast. So if your last spell was a single target, they keep casting lava bursts until you cast chain lightning or earthquake when they switch to chain lightnings. This way you still have control of what's important to you, but they actually do something all the time. Same goes for healing spells. As a resto main I wouldn't say it's great for us either, hydrobubble is a fun addition, but ancestral switfness is atrocious. Having your emergency button tied to throughput is terrible. I would change the capstone, so that casting Fire or Storm elemental (Ele) or Ancestral Guidance (Resto) spawns 3 ancestors for 15 seconds. That way Ele gets an actual cooldown and seeing a group of these chads hammer the boss with lava burst or m+ packs with chain lightings would be visually satisfying on the similar level to mage or warlock trees imho. Also Offering from beyond should lower the cd of ancestral guidance for resto, not Riptide, that's so useless :(.

Thanks for the video. I agree with a lot of your design criticism of the spec: the ancestors don't really work with any of the aspects of Elemental as it stands. They don't trigger off much, they don't augment your abilities, and they don't do much for the playstyle. From a flavor standpoint, the ancestors don't really work with any parts of elemental, either. Maybe (as some others have said here) if the ancestors affected how you cast things, charging you with certain abilities? As it stands, they don't play into any of the, well, elemental parts of elemental. The good news is that the lore standpoint of Farseer doesn't seem much more than simply "is a strong and powerful shaman", so I think there is a lot of room for Blizzard to just design something that works well here.

maybe attach a specific element to random ancestors, like one buffs your ice dmg and gives you the icefury buff, or another buffs nature dmg and buffs lighning/chain casts etc, maybe one could summon a temp earth/fire ele, or one buffs your earth shock to summon a rock out of the ground and knocks your target up?

problem is that the ancestor is a proc right? the mage one is part of the spell, the warlock one is completely different as warlocks are a pet class, they could fix it to be a spell we click not just a random proc

Good video. Might I ask where you’re playing at?

I straight up cant believe these things dont attack unless you do. Hell half the time they are up they are just floating there because of cast times. It really is starting to feel like blizzard is being intentionally malicious to shaman. Shaman class design team is where all the c-grade interns must be housed.

I also think you should be glowing in some way, too. so many of these new "subclasses" are getting amazing visuals, and while the ghost do look cool... there could be just a bit more going on. maybe something above you happens? like its a visual that you are channeling into the spirit world, and maybe you also get a bit of the glow, just not as much? your eyes glow... your hands glow... your head glows... just key areas would be perfect to highlight whats going on. maybe like a vague, misty portal that is kind of like a flat disc is above your character, or maybe under them. that would indeed help a lot in my honest opinion. the obvious points you made are a given, i just wanted to share my visual complaint and suggestion.

Do the Ancestors attack if your Elemental is attacking?

I don't think having the hero talents being too close to one another is great for variety. I think it's cool that this one spawns only your actual ancestors that passed down your knowledge as a shaman. For the auto attacking thing I think it could be cool if they were capable to do non CD abilities all the time and whenever you use something on cd like lava burst they get a charge they try to use on their next GCD. So they sort of depend on you but are not useless without you and you can sort of keep the burst aspect they had they just would function as an echo of you stop to speak instead of casting at the same time.

"Im stunned and my grandpa is watching me" 😂😂

I feel like it should change directions entirely, I feel like this pet ancestor casting along id kinda boring, I feel like shamans farseers could do something like grtting knowledge grom.ancestors. so, sometimes it procs, and depending of the ancestor u get some skill of urs get leveled up, making something unique, like elemental blasts stunnig, chain lighting aplying a doted debuff or something.like that.

It would be awesome if the ancestors were versions of the shaman from older expansions, and they could wear the old tier sets from that expansion as well, like it would be awesome to get like a vanilla enhancement ancestor that would run up with a big twohander to fish for windfury crits.

They could definitely have a distinct Earth, Fire, and Frost ancestor, and incentives you to use those schools during the ancestor window.

If Blizzard don't want ancestors to act like Phoenix for example, then they atleast must increase the duration by alot. Do they also have the proc chance with mastery? I do understand why this tree is so focused on lava burst because it seems like the other option will go all in lightning but Farseer definetly needs some more oomph.

I feel like there should be different versions of ancestors that proc off of different spells. Chain lightning give you a lightning caster, lava burst a fire caster and earth quake an earth caster. It would really lean into how a shaman learns each element and how each element is special. And if blizzard doesn’t want to have specific models for the casters, why not let us make the models for our ancestors.

So shaman just has one wall - what if they just took the ancestral idea and give you dr while ancestors are up (more dr for more ancestors) or/and if one dies/dissappears youd get healed by a certain % health

Im not a shaman main, but ive wanted to be one for years. The changes i would like to see are 1. Ancestors duration increased to 10-15 seconds, limited to 2..if you procc more, the duration will just keep em up and they need to cast on their own. 2. Tempest and elemental blast instant casts. ( most important imo) 3. Chain lightning / L Bolt needs a interaction with lava burst. LB increase CL/LB dmg. And CL/LB increase LB dmg, also increase cast time slightly. 4. Fire nova redesign ( available to all speccs) And spreads flameshock. Doesnt do much dmg, its just to spread dots. 5. Burrow should be a talent that could be used baseline, its awesome, but increase speed in pve to 100% 6. Give a teleport of some sort.. But with a gimmick..Like a totem you can place wherver with cursor, and you can turn yourself into wind and teleport to it ( give it a little travel time to not make it too OP) For visuals: 1: Ancestors are awesome, 2. Make ascendance into something that combines all elements surrounding the character.. sorta like combustion..but with elements. 3. Thunderstorm should be a wind/air ability with great visuals to match it. 4. Redesign gust of wind visuals..Looks like shit as it is now.. Make it like a heroic leap, with earthquake effect when landing. ( only visual)

I got to play plunderstorm and got really excited when I seen some of the drop abilities because they were perfect for shaman turn into a ball of moving flame massive earthquakes crazy lighting tell me that’s isn’t a shaman Your elemental in nature regardless of spec So why does it feel like one more xpack shaman get the shaft entail they realized they f’d us again, buff us and invariably they nerf the crap out of us AGAIN and everyone can’t understand cuz we have some of the “best defensives in the game” . They would be if everyone ESPECIALLY ret and hunter so noobs can smash keys, weren’t so op after nerfs. It just really feels like they gave the shaman trees over to a bunch of rookies 😢

I think the ancestors should spawn with the same % chance but off of any spell you cast, then they cast a set number of similar spells to whatever you casted to proc them, then they disappear.

It sounds like they don't know what to do with shaman hero talents tbh.

Please if you have a contact with bliz I would ask blizz if they could make farseer ele into a ramp up spec where your ancestor has a chance to give you a stacking weaker elemental blast buff only this buff refreshes after gaining a stack and can stack indefinitely or x high limit amount after 3mins constantly using dps spells. That way after 3mins of constant combat the spec starts to hit like a truck in execute phases. They could call it knowledge of the ancestors.

If they stay as boring as they are right now, at least make their elemblasts proc something from our talents like lightning rod, surge of power, eogsundering... SOMETHING

Thanks tiqqle hope you get some traction, i'm going to end up going fire mage if they don't get their shit together its been 3 expansions now

Why do ancestors, why not summon all four elementals wind, water, earth, and fire, and they all attack on their own as pets that augment and buff each elemental spell on your bar. Like Lava burst becomes volcanic spew, Lighting bolt and chain lightening becomes a thunderstorm with lighting coming out of the sky and a storm cloud, your water healing becomes a damage ability, and your Earthquake becomes fissure and tears open the earth with boulders and rocks flying at your enemies. Would be sick, is much more thematic, and you get the augments that you are talking about. Lets say they last for 30 seconds or 15 seconds and is on a 1-2 minute cooldown or something. Shaman just feels and looks so bad in PTR right now it hurts my soul man

Im so tired of them messing up shaman and that i could not watch more than 2 minutes. Before hero talents compare Mage with Shaman: 1.BUFF Arcane Intelect vs mana spring thats 2 talent points and does 0 2. MOBILITY 2 blinks that break stun or alow casting and speed you up, 3 ice floes 20 sec CD and displacement VS go wolf and waste globals, messup ur talet tree to get the wind jump and spiritwalkers Grace 2 min CD. 3. DEFS Alter, barier, mass barer, 2 blocks or block and couterize, 60%dr inviz, images VS Astral shift All mage cds also lowered by shifting. And somehow I still need more keybinds on my shaman. Class has held me back long enough. Switched back to mage and not going back!!

also i feel like the ancestors could do something else than just dmg... speed boost? heals? dmg reduction ?

You know you're in a bad way if MONKS are getting more attention than your class.

If they fuck up all the hero talent specs for enhance, I swear to the elements I give up on shaman for good xD

I totally agree with the ancestors being a bit lackluster. At the same time, the shadow priest void pool is in the same basket, it does some damage as aoe, but it's not very impactful and the radius is small . But it is still alpha, let's hope they properly modify them until live.

i wish the ancestor that'll spawn to help me would be tiqqle himself

I think lightningbolt and chain lightning should summon a storm ele for a short time and lava burst and flame shock ticks should summon a fire ele for a short time, and earthquake and earthshock should summon a earth ele that seems more fun and different ele to play around

I feel like im going to give up on Elemental shaman next XPac and go mage or lock at this point. Its sad thst blizzard refuses to help that spec.

Those darn elemnental shamans

By the way no you can't add damage tuning to the class/spec. You have two different hero talent choices. The only sure way to balance them is to have a way to increase of reduce their throughput. I don't think doing it through a talent node is the most exciting in the world. It would have been a bit sexier if every hero talent tree had one free passive that does that tuning before you even put any point in the tree. But then again we can't expect 10 points that do game changing effects otherwise it would become too complex for many players. Also it's healthy if some specs are simpler to go to than others. Not every player is looking for the same level of complexity in their rotation. I prefer more in depth things with a lot of interactions but it's unrealistic to only have this for every spec/hero combination in the game.

They aren't going to put lightning stuff into this because that is obviously gonna go into STORMBRINGER

I think it's poorly done when we look at the other classes, but i think shamans builds are pretty divided right now, i can' even play the way i like shaman because of a tier set, and again i'm be forced to talent the shadowlands ability in order to make this tree work, this tree for ele seems to only fill up this ability since it's lava burst proc, and reseting, the main Idea is pretty cool, but the execution not, hopefully blizzard will listen, anyway shamans seems to be one of the last class they are working on, so i'm pretty sure this is unfinished since their main talent tree didn't receive any updates, i think we're gonna have the S3 tier set in the right corner

So farseer= lava burst, lava burst, lava burst?

The concept of our whole fucking tier sets and hero trees revolving around primoridal wave is fucking stupid. Primordial wave needs to be either baseline or they need to completely revamp the tier sets and hero talents for ele.

If you don't write in the bus form, the elemental shaman will be like this when the new expansion comes out. Please tell them to remove those things and give us elemental pets just like the bm Hunters

Hoho pokemon sunfury is summoning is indeed nuts. I feel for you blue kids, lots of shaman are pretty ticked on the forums.

Interested about enhancement

Thanks for putting this together. We should all be spamming it out there.

I will say though that the devs did say several times and including today to let them know - what talents cause friction as in that you need to make it work (they want to avoid forcing that) - wanted to put things out early to get feedback (could be a good thing since they hit it a few times now) - want to have all trees be as even as possible to account for the same 10% power across the board. (Hero talents 10% power upgrade compared to your talents alone). They said they will be changing things a lot and they will be tuning hard and not letting things get crazy. - all trees have utility, small damage amps, upgrades thematic to be shared across the 2 shared specializations and a central themed interaction/ ability. Its an all hands on deck thing atm from all the devs. Hopefully people are respectful and mature in response. Also pvp meta gems came out and 1 is a 15% dr while ccd, a bit nuts especially with the amount of defense people were upgraded to in their trees/ class reworks this go around.

Ancestors are just elemental overload which is lame. Id like to see a lightning nova chance on each target hit by chain lightning. And maybe lava burst have a chance to summon a volcano totem

I love Ele but it got so boring spaming that lavaburst button. I think it needs more than just hero talents to bring that fantastic class to shine

I feel like shaman is an after thought at this point like we don’t have our own people developing the class. Looking at the other hero trees there it seems like they were like oh that’s a cool concept throw it together for the shaman and we get basic b**** version. I don’t like our play style right now we are suppose to be elemental but look at out damage breakdown 50% of our damage is lava burst that’s not engaging to me but I’m stubborn and I love my shaman I do agree with most of the comments I’m seeing in we need a rework or devs that care about the class as much as other class devs do

Shouldve made a version of sham s3 tier set baseline or talented.

Why is Ascendance lava focused? Why can there be a two node talent chooses between a flame ascendent or a storm ascendent. Decrease the cooldown and give it a straight damage buff in addition.... And PLEASE, redesign the model.... Sheesh. Way overdue.

please make video from stormbringer talent tree too

Those shitty summons gonna fuck the expansion 😢😢

Ancestors need a new model, like wtf are those people wearing level 10 robes ? We should be summoning real heroes or you know what? Let us summon elementals ! We need badass visuals like the ones the warlocks have. It shouldn’t be that hard for developers to do that…

I want icefury removed

Locks and mages get most of the attention again.

being honest because i really love shaman, but is like that class is there and blizzard just reminds themselves they exist and have to do something for them, because i never played such an abandoned class in my life, don't get me wrong i love shaman elemental overall but damm they really don't give a shit about them

ELEMNENTAL!!!!

almost 5 expansions basically the same way of playing with, elemental needs an urgent rework; not just gameplay but visuals too

iam sry but thats not correct. 1:17 you are stunned in the duell ,a anchestor spawn while stunned and anchestor cast laval burst.... 1:41 Anchestor are dumb and cast only lavaburst/chainlightning, meanwhile Anchestor cast elemental blast.... at 5:07 aswell, and so on and on would be nice if you can correct the informations

Swaped to fire mage so I can spam instant cast and feel actually good and usefull. Best decision in my wow life kek

I hate the fact that ele shaman always feels this way, ele always feels like its just gets shit on at the start of every expac and it only is ever slightly playable during the last major patch of an expac.

BLIZZ wants the elemental to be totally lucky

Dont get the point of the ancestors lol? Shouldnt they just have reworked the original searing totem? Maybe make it work similar to imps for demo lock? Just make it so your lava bursts or whatever spawn a totem that is immune to AOE, and will cast reduced damage lava bursts at your target for X seconds and you can have up to X active at any given time etc. On another note to rly help with elementals single target damage and to give us much needed dispel protection in pvp, it would be awesome to borrow the Lashing Flames mechanic from enhancement. How cool would it be if whenever you earth shock a target with flameshock active, it "electrifies" the fire, just like how you can combo electric and fire abilities in other games. -Earth shock electrifies your flameshock causing it to tick X% faster for 3-5 seconds AND if your flameshock is dispelled while electrified the dispeller gets.. something Like a mini stun or incap and more damage taken or whatever, just something to make healers less free to just spam dispel without consideration at least for your primary target, (or potentially more if you stack enough maelstrom then earth shock two targets in quick succession right before a primordial wave go etc, opens up a more interesting playstyle I think.

wait for DK horsemen

It literally says they are doing elemental blast in your log. How do you keep missing this?

It's so funny that you keep calling ancestors as grandpapa and grandfather. 😂

Blizz dosnt know what there doing with ele, they need a full revamp anything els your lying to yourself

Thematically Ancestors is such a boring concept and Has absolutely nothing to do with Farseers either. They've always been advisors that talked to elements. Ancestors should be replaced with mini elementals summoned at the very least. Let ele shamans summon Fire/Wind Elementals and Resto summon Water/Earth elementals. Blizz wouldnt even need to make new models. They could just use the existing mini pet elemntal models. But something instead of the stupid ancestor idea.

Granddad watching you die in a stun. 🤣

ANCESTERS? WHY THE FUCK DONT SUMMON ALL 4 ELEMENTALS AND DO 2 OR 3 ATKS.. EARTH, LAVA, LIGTH AND HEAL!!!!

elemnental

Alpha is Alpha, but i am seeing a LOT of stuff that needs to be fixed in just 6 months. We are in for another Beta launch. Also, the visuals are soooo outdated, we have seen they can do better, some plunderstorm skills looked really good... Blizzard needs to stop half4assing their expansions.

This makes me give up on TWW on the spot.

Hopefully totemic will be fun for resto cuz this looks zzzZZZzzzZZ

Please dont say resto is ok. No healer wants random healing everywhere

Come on...... did you really think they would care about Shaman?

To begin with there’s nothing cool about these ancestors. It isn’t in the slightest a fantasy that players were dreaming about. Some want more elemental pets, some want a refocusing on being a lightning lord and lava burst has been overused for a long time, some want more utility and defensives to be viable in raiding, some want minor tweaks to just a handful of things, some of us just want to be a strong potent spec in PvP, and this “hero talent” does nothing of that. If they got feedback at all from anyone about wanting this for the spec, it can only be some obscure roleplayer… Like two people. Who aren’t gamers… It’s just bad to begin with. I’d gladly see a COMPLETE redo. Let alone fix what’s there already. So many layers of poop it’s disheartening.

What a joke .. that's why I simply stopped playing shaman..always getting the short stick..always needs help.And they even didn't fix THE MAIN ISSUE! THE DEFENSIVES!...Not even that like ffs. Change to warlock and just abandon shaman. Then maybe they will fix it if nobody plays it. EDIT: just watch Blizzard ignoring all of your suggestions and leave Ele in the garbage bin again.

I disagree, alpha is not the time where the community have to say what kind of changes the talents need. Its blizzard job to pay players who test everything, like every other company.

Once again shaman seems left behind even more when you see the SP or DK new heroic talents. Nothing new, same animations, and shamy still doesn't bring anything more or different to a group... it's sad.

Your feedback should actually just be "Ancestors aren't good enough for a HERO talent period. Even working well this would be extremely underwhelming for a HERO talent." Because I don't care whether or not they work, because I'd rather just have something completely different because this doesn't make me feel powerful like Thrall pulling a hand out of stones to hold a certain someone still-type powerful. Give me ultimate Lightning Storm with Tornado or give me Thrall, there is no in between or any less. (I don't mean this in a negative way wityh you Tiqq, it's entirely at the devs I agree with your points as well to at least balance it.)

Trash tree. It should be elementals.

We should have elemental pets just like the bm hunters

the expansion as a whole needs help i already saw wtf is to come and its just the same garbage as before with a different narrative sure you can bitch about how world pve doesn't matter but if its so easy you fall asleep playing it then what the fuck's the point? blizzard's just proven why im not going to buy war within or probably anymore expansions from them im genuinely going to start playing private servers this is fuckin stupid