Deep Water Culture vs Kratky Hydroponics

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Күн бұрын

Hoocho tests DWC vs Kratky trying to find out the Definitive Answer: Which is best?
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Пікірлер: 118

@trishapomeroy9251 Ай бұрын

I grow lettuce Kratky style for our farmers market. I always wondered if adding air stones would be beneficial, but we are off grid and don't have the spare power for it. Even though I am a huge fan of Kratky, I am surprised at the results. Thank you so much for running this experiment!

@kevinmiller5467 Ай бұрын

google "Solar air pump" there are a bunch of solar air pumps for under $30.

@MouldySponge Ай бұрын

A suggestion that may interest you, you can purchase solar powered air pumps relatively cheaply. I too have concerns about electricity use, so thats what I use. I have done a comparison of kratky vs DWC growing napa cabbage outdoors, and the DWC method using solar powered air stones does actually produce a healthier plant for me that grows slightly faster and gets less pests, at least when it comes to cabbage. With kratky I get brown roots, with DWC I get a much denser and crystal white root system with no chance of algae growth. One solar powered air pump can oxygenate multiple buckets fairly well, in my experience one $20 solar air pump can do up to 4 buckets if your hoses are short enough.

@trishapomeroy9251 Ай бұрын

@@MouldySponge how long is your cabbage growing? For me, the lettuce is harvested after 8 weeks in the kratky tanks., and the roots are always beautiful white. I'm wondering if something that stays in the system longer would have darker roots over time.

@MouldySponge Ай бұрын

@trishapomeroy9251 my cabbage in dwc took 10 weeks, and kratky about 15 weeks, to achieve a full head of cabbage. If you're not having any issues with your lettuce, then hey do what works for you, just thought I'd suggest these solar air pumps because they really helped me.

@trishapomeroy9251 Ай бұрын

@@MouldySponge that's a significant time difference! WOW! Thanks for the info

@stevepretorius3329 Ай бұрын

Thanks for doing this, basil grows really well in a Kratky system...

@sa3kes111 22 күн бұрын

So does cannabis actually

@reconhalcyon 23 күн бұрын

Amazing results and great testing. The 3d printed lids are among my favorites of your designs. Will be trying them out soon!

@DAI.H4RD Ай бұрын

Thanks for inspiring me to design and 3d print my own net cups. I never realised bunnings buckets were so cheap!

@chrishofmann22 23 күн бұрын

Loving all your content. Wonderful and helpful

@joelepack938 Ай бұрын

Always keep your air pump above the water line. No additional parts needed. And ya, you need to top up DWC.

@vaclavgrym8241 8 күн бұрын

It's not really deep water culture if the water level drops...

@CatHamster-wf5xs Ай бұрын

Nice 1 Mr Hoocho. Excellent results on the least hassle Kranky system

@anitrawalker7763 Ай бұрын

My lettuce is in DWC. I keep my water level the same through the entire grow.

@sogden2111 22 күн бұрын

Thanks for the information learned from your experiment. Much appreciated.

@TomHiggins Ай бұрын

As always , thanks for the great vid! I live in an apt with limited indoor grow space. Kratky has been my go to for ease of setup and ease of maintenance. For much of what im growing a no refill set and forget Dr Kratky special hits the sweet spot of space and ease. I do have a few aeroclone/dwc boxes and those are great for longer growing projects but those need more care across the grow. I recently 3d printed the Hooc Vertical Light Saber Of Leafy Greens and am about ready to set it up, im curios to see how that fairs. Thanks again for the inspiration.

@ShewanJanith Ай бұрын

The episode I wanted. Thank you.

@milkybaravenger Ай бұрын

Hi Hoocho, new here, loving the channel. You’re correct about 3d printing being cheaper, I wanted a hydroponic tower but in the uk a decent one is around £800. I brought a secondhand p1p for £300 and some filament and designed my own. Currently printing it at the moment and I recon with the coast of the printer and filament it’s going to coast me around £400 for the tower and I’ll have a 3d printer out of it to make more stuff.

@steve-adams Ай бұрын

And you’ve got everything you need to print replacement parts or upgrades! Ordering replacement parts from the manufacturer can be a huge and expensive PITA

@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 27 күн бұрын

It's actually cheaper than your calculations, because you have to amortize the cost of that 3D printer into its entire lifetime and all of the things you print with it. Over the course of, let's say, 10 years, that 3D printer's cost goes pretty much to zero.

@deckingman 16 күн бұрын

I'm, also in the UK and did the same (but I had already built my own printer). Started with a single tower - now I have 3 (each with their own reservoir and pump). So I can have different nutrients and PH levels in each one to suit different plants. The mistake I made was to use white PET-G and I have a bit of an algae problem. I'll likely just end up painting the parts black but in hindsight, should have used black filament from the outset.

@milkybaravenger 16 күн бұрын

@@deckingman maybe printing mine in white is a mistake, I have used esun solid white as I was worried about the heat with black. Maybe should have gone grey?

@deckingman 15 күн бұрын

@@milkybaravengerThe glass transition temperature (where the plastic starts to soften) for PLA is 60 Deg C. You might just reach that on the rare hot days we get in the UK, if the parts were in full sun. But then the nutrient solution cascading down the tower should keep it cool, even under those conditions. Even so, I elected to PET-G which has a glass transition temperature of 85 Deg C. ABS would be better still but has a tendency to warp unless you have a heated chamber.

@seedsensei420 Ай бұрын

The Kratky system can be far superior to Deep Water Culture (DWC) if you can master two key aspects: 1. **Fine-tune the nutrient EC to the specific plant you are growing.** Since the plant roots are soaking in the nutrient solution 24/7, "less is better." Start with an EC of 0.5 (250 ppm on the 500 scale) and evaluate the results at the end of harvest. Then adjust the nutrient solution to EC 0.6 for the next crop and evaluate it again at the end of harvest. Continue this process, increasing the nutrient solution by 0.1 EC for each successive crop. The end-of-harvest evaluation should include the physical appearance of the plant and the taste of the produce. 2. **Use large containers, as "more is better."** You want to avoid running out of nutrient solution before harvesting your crop. For crops like lettuce, use a 5-gallon container and limit your grow to one plant. Evaluate the plant at the end of harvest, noting how much nutrient solution was left in the container and the physical appearance of the roots. If you have more than half of the nutrient solution remaining at the end of harvest, you can increase the plant count by one for the next crop, with a maximum of two plants per container. Avoid topping off or adding nutrient solution during your grow, as this will cover the air roots that develop as the nutrient solution decreases, potentially drowning and killing your plant.

@trishapomeroy9251 Ай бұрын

Great explanation! Thank you! I love growing with the kratky method and your detailed tips are very helpful.

@hodgeac 29 күн бұрын

No chance. DWC is effectively Kratky with a constantly oxygenated nutrient. The two "key aspects" you mention are both applicable to DWC as well.

@seedsensei420 29 күн бұрын

@@hodgeac When people don’t have years of experience growing with both Kratky and DWC, they tend to believe that DWC is far superior because it’s what is pushed in social media. How labor intensive and a pain it is to change out the DWC bucket’s nutrient solution every 2 weeks? Try changing the nutrient solution of 20 five gallon buckets every 2 week, that’s 100 gallons of nutrient solution. Have you tried running DWC outdoors or off grid? Have you experienced air pump failures? Have you experienced pH fluctuations and constantly had to adjust the pH. Have you experienced Pythium root rot because you didn’t sterilize your air stone and air tubing? The Kratky system has none of those shortcomings.

@saucebox11 28 күн бұрын

kratky is great and you can refill, i do it all the time, just make sure you dont fill it too high. Some plants are more forgiving then others.

@SeamusHarper1234 28 күн бұрын

Yeah, you can refill Kratky systems to a degree. Dr. Kratky even has his diy float valves made from yogurt containers and foam that keep the solution at about 50%.

@Yahawah_ 24 күн бұрын

I’m loving the first person camera angles.

@youtubetruthlife4750 17 күн бұрын

I have grown tomatoes and peppers successfully using Kratky method. I do not see any reason to use DWC, it just adds more complexity into the mix. I got about 1000 tomatoes and peppers from 6 containers. I forgot to use a fan, and that was the reason I have to start over. The production of fruits are great.

@mitchellbauer Ай бұрын

Further improvement, add a hole to the 3D print lid, so you can insert a support rod for veggies that require it. Can start off with a small hole. So if someone needs a larger one for a garden stake, they can take a large drill bit, and the small hole would be a good guide. Fantastic video as always.

@Gabuhmi 26 күн бұрын

love it!

@mikenorfleet2235 Ай бұрын

I think since the water level dropped so much the deep water culture is no longer "deep". Think it would have done much better if you topped it off periodically, though I understand the purpose of the experiment was set and forget. Cannot forget about systems that require attention....deep water is one of those systems.

@aussieauto7314 Ай бұрын

Im doing lettuce in a foam broccoli box it has four holes net cups have biodegradable nursery bag in them filled with coco coir and perlite and then topped up with anarchy nutrients

@SeamusHarper1234 27 күн бұрын

Isn't it kind of important to keep the water level in a DWC system? At about 80%...

@Zahaqiel Ай бұрын

Yeah uh... if the nutrient mix is getting depleted that much, that's not deep water culture, that's an aerated kratky system. Deep water systems need the water level needs to be maintained consistently so that it never drops. By any amount. The roots need full submersion at all times. But yes, DWC is a more complicated setup. 100%. It's not really a good method for small-scale usage.

@stryk3rkaos Ай бұрын

What filament do you use? Nice video!

@rw-xf4cb Ай бұрын

isn't DWC better for warmer climates. My Kratky strawberries and watermelons all flopped due to the heat.

@brenoqueen873 Ай бұрын

I live in a relatively hot climate (middle of Brazil), the problem with heat it's more than only roots, which is the point of dwc, I don't know exactly what setup u used, but maybe adding extra ventilation and a light diffuser to inhibit some of the light from burning the plants would help, plants are very resilient if given close to what they need, I had tomatoes grown from 200ml that gave me fruits

@hydrobae Ай бұрын

The buckets are looking great mate, but you've got to upgrade to one of gathera's new netcups! Made for 34mm diameter holes, will solve all your algae issues!

@waiojitsu Ай бұрын

In my experience, Kratky demands 60-80% of the EC Level you would apply on a DWC system. Regardless of the plant you grow.

@trishapomeroy9251 Ай бұрын

Really?!! So dilute even more?!! Am I understanding what you are saying correctly?

@waiojitsu Ай бұрын

@@trishapomeroy9251 yes! 1000-1300 EC value. First 2-3 weeks only 700 and in the 4th week up to 1100

@Philmoon69 26 күн бұрын

@@trishapomeroy9251 YES

@Sgettieddi Ай бұрын

Great video! How many days did take until maturity?

@picklemetimbers3003 Ай бұрын

Do you have a nutrient blend you created or one you would recommend?

@pespeut1990 Ай бұрын

Hey Hoocho. Absolutely love your videos. I have a question/thought. If you were to do this with one of the float valve systems, would the DWC have a better result? Based on the root growth on them, the bubbles splashing water on the roots at the earlier stages, and progressively shifting away as the water level dropped seems to have stunted the growth.

@karolybanyai8455 Ай бұрын

Really great video again! I like your openness, and creativity, keep goin'!!

@aeynosarturii8053 Ай бұрын

I will see you next time on Hoocho's, that my friend is a fact. I love you approach and that you are willing to revisit a topic with new methods. It really helps inform, us the audience, that there I no perfect solution and they different methods may work really well in different circumstances. The root development in this DWC is far different than what I have seen in my own, but it is just a reminder that our plants are as varied in temperament as our pets and sometimes, they just do the damnedest things despite us doing everything the same as prior efforts.

@noahmiller6115 Ай бұрын

I'm getting .7 ec with masterblend tomato formula and tap water. Seems too low but it's working so far. Sets are a few weeks from harvest.

@maxpouser Ай бұрын

Amazing video, cant believe the huge diference

@kuktar9846 26 күн бұрын

im hoping u see this comment hoochoo! one test i did was running the air pumps 24 7 vs only having them pump on a couple times a day. the couple times a day is basicly what i call kratky+ becuase i got really good results doing this and it even saves energy :P

@kevinkc3onohelijeepworld953 Ай бұрын

There are a few ac/battery powered air pumps, when the ac/grid fails the battery pump takes over and will supply air during outage. Simple plug in air to a one way valve and tee it into current air system. Also one way valve the ac/grid pump to keep from leakage while batt pump is operating 😉

@saifulhanif20 Ай бұрын

Do you have any organic hydroponic fertiliser trial?

@rjaquaponics9266 Ай бұрын

What were the ambient condition in your lab during this test (temp. humidity atmospheric pressure etc...)?

@itsBigDaddio Ай бұрын

What a weird world! Less than 24 hours from Hooch posting the video I am sitting here with a couple new Kratky buckets with lettuce in them.

@Hoocho Ай бұрын

God speed little fellas!

@crappy_fpv 21 күн бұрын

Hey hoocho i know in past videos youve made mention of wanting to be able to ship your prodocus to the us in the meantime do you know where in the states we can get the nutrients you use i would love to get sone and try

@hodgeac 29 күн бұрын

DWC should be kept topped up. I'm not sure how he keeps misunderstanding DWC.

@stevendownes7508 Ай бұрын

First time I've seen a video where kratky came out on top, which is great, because I love the set and forget

@lorettastinnett6848 Ай бұрын

Love the information you've provided for the Kratky grow. I've grown indeterminate tomatoes with and without the Kratky method and then placed the plants in a bed in my garden to prepare my grow tent for a new set up. Those plants are now producing new blossoms and are growing great.

@mrpants8976 29 күн бұрын

i would say it would be best to also have a second test this with the deep water culture closer to the fan and the kratky away from the fan and see if it is the fan was a factor in the results

@deckingman 16 күн бұрын

This is interesting. I just got into hydroponics last year by printing my own tower. It worked very well so I printed two more towers. But this year, lettuce that grew well last year have really struggled, and just like yours, the roots are really under developed, brown, and not at all healthy. The only major difference is that I added an air pump. I use a flood and drain method because energy is so expensive here in the UK and it would cost too much to have the pumps run continuously. That is to say, the nutrient pumps start every 15 minutes and run for 5 seconds per degree C of ambient temperature (so the warmer the ambient, the longer the pumps run). When the nutrient pumps stop, the air pump starts and pumps air into the nutrient solution via an air stone for 2 minutes (i.e. 2 minutes in every 15). So I'm just wondering if something is going on with pumping air into the nutrient solution. Is it causing some sort of chemical reaction? Does it affect PH? The fact that you saw problems using DWC with an air pump, and I'm seeing the same issues using flood and drain towers with an air pump, is a bit too much of a coincidence.

@TheCassenator Ай бұрын

I think the biggest issue people are going to take is that you setup and ran the kratky systems the way they are supposed to be run but didn’t run the DWC systems the way they are supposed to be run. It shouldn’t be called a comparison between the 2 methods and more so a test to see if a bubbler aids kratky production, which in this example it doesn’t. That being said I like the prints and that’s what I’m really here for. It would be cool if you could find a way for us to use the prints for even smaller beds. Like some kinda modular setup

@kiwisoup1 Ай бұрын

Yep. Hoocho you pretty much want to keep the DWC regularly topped up at the same level. Some kind of automatic top up system would have worked well.

@tvideo1189 Ай бұрын

@@kiwisoup1 Adding even more complexity to an already unnecessarily complex system. Did you even LOOK at the Kratky lettuce????? Why bother with all the other stuff?

@brenoqueen873 Ай бұрын

If u like to print in smaller 3d printers, u could snap the models and glue them together after

@TheCassenator Ай бұрын

@@tvideo1189 that’s not the point. The point is you can’t take a higher maintenance system, not put the maintenance in and then say “see it doesn’t work.” if you want to kratky lettuce then do it that way, but if you like tending to things then giving DWC an actually fair shot is worth considering. I would rather he does it right to present a fair comparison so people have an easier time deciding for themselves which they prefer

@fredericksmith7418 Ай бұрын

For me the simplicity of Kratky set and forget is why I grow Kratky as most of the time I am away somewhere. The only issue with Kratky is the plants you can't grow with it. Having said that since growing Kratky I haven't bought leafy greens for a long time. Glad you are flying along Hoocho after a few roads bumps 😊

@wsams Ай бұрын

The dwc bubbler may have also warped your pH.

@Scrambles7 Ай бұрын

BIG DOG!!!! IT'S TIME!!! THE VIDEO WE HAVE ALL WAITED FOR!!! I grow my chillies in dwc. I've always wanted to know the difference and if it's worth going to kratky

@Hoocho Ай бұрын

Give it a go, I’d highly recommend RGGS with coco, my peppers are thriving in it 😂 made some hot sauce yesterday. Might have to make a hot sauce ep

@waiojitsu Ай бұрын

If you have to refill nutrient and water into the system, you are safer with DWC. For salads and some herbs, definitely Kratky!

@MB-co6qj Ай бұрын

Jaaa@@Hoocho

@cpav9062 Ай бұрын

@@Hoocho yes please!

@saucebox11 28 күн бұрын

@@waiojitsu my peppers do extremely well in kratky, even with topping off. I have 8 thai chili peppers right now that just keep giving me loads of chilis

@ivareskesner2019 25 күн бұрын

How are you, mate? Speaking of DWC. I wanted to ask you something. Seeing how you've probably tried and experimented with just about every hydro nutrient there is. I'm looking for a cal-mag supplement with a 0-0-0 NPK profile. Mainly one without nitrogen. Meaning Calcium Chloride instead of Calcium Nitrate, most likely. Are you aware of any good ones available in Oz? I've been looking and the only ones I see are all in US. Nothing here.

@semosesam Ай бұрын

Given those results, my questions now would be how many days does it take to grow the head of lettuce, and how many litres of nutrient solution is required per head of lettuce? Personally, I would be inclined to use smaller containers with one head each, then stagger the start of each head of lettuce to create a perpetual source. Hoocho, I know you're growing on a much larger scale, but I'd love to see the instructions laid out for a "minimum viable product" for someone to grow with this method in the simplest possible way where the only goal is a fresh head of lettuce ready to harvest every day. And if you're staggering the start of each head of lettuce, I think a separate container for each one makes more sense. Or maybe netcups of different depths?

@Hoocho Ай бұрын

Check out kratkys scientific paper www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/hawaii/downloads/A_Suspended_Pot_Non-circulating_Hydroponic_method.pdf It has all the info you need. 4L per head. So just make the buckets/pots 4L Should be done within a month.

@davinasquirrel7672 19 күн бұрын

@semosesam actually, you are better to grow your smaller crops like lettuce, in a wider multiple planting situation. They really do not care about sharing (as long as they have room for their leaves). It is a lot less work, particularly if you will need to top up during the grow. In my peak growing season, I generally only need to check on my plants once a week, I like the lazy gardening. That means larger containers, and not a lot of little containers, which is a stupid amount of work.

@eyerune4865 Ай бұрын

I wouldn't have guessed that result either. Lettuce is well known to perform very well with low oxygen content in the root zone, i wonder how much that factor played in the final result Also a 3d printer would have saved me a lot of time and money when i was seriously experimenting with hydroponic and water filtration a decade ago, and it's nice to see someone talking about ventilation, since plants need light, nutrients, water and... air!!! - everybody wants the best nutes, light or wtv but how many have really invested in ventilation

@mikenorfleet2235 Ай бұрын

If you go to any effort to set up air pumps, its not to much to ask for an autofill float valve from a reservoir of nutrient solution to make the deep water culture system stay topped off with gravity alone. That would be a better comparison cause the dwc would stay dwc and not some hybrid dwc/kratky. This proves hybird dwc-kratky is bad.

@davinasquirrel7672 19 күн бұрын

Surprising, but pleasing result - Kratky for the win! I am only a Kratky grower. After the learning curve, it is so easy. And if you live in an area with frequent power failures, it is essential. Now, I will add a new bit of information to your Kratky adventures. That is, low wide containers work better than tall deep ones. If you look at Bernie's (Dr Kratky's) videos, you will see he favours larger reservoirs, multi-plant beds, and also float valves. The reason why the low wide containers work better (even without float valves) is that the water level drops more slowly. This calculation I worked out, and my online friend Bill also proved by experimentation, I just provided the numbers to prove his observations. Short term crops should not need topping up, but longer crops do need it, and the caution there is not to replenish too high, leave at least 5cm below the bottom of the net cup so as not to drown the air roots (certain death in Kratky land). For warmer weather, always err for a weaker mix of nutrients, as the plants will uptake more water, leaving a stronger brew in the reservoir leading to nutrient burn. It's the ultimate 'less is more'. I generally set up my plants (even in very active growing season) to just monitor or top up once per week. I like the lazy gardening aspect. I see people do Kratky it in ridiculously small containers that need topping up daily, so if one likes creating work for themselves, follow that silly format. The only perennials that I have in Kratky are strawberries, and they do well, I do not even do anything for them over winter, just replenish the nutrients at Spring and let them get on with it. I was concerned about Winter, we have some hard frost, but they were fine with it. It may be different if you live in a snow area.

@DM-sc4zy Ай бұрын

One major drawback of DWC is with the bubbler constantly pumping oxygen into the nutrient, PH will keep rising.

@trishapomeroy9251 Ай бұрын

Thank you so much for this info!!! I have a hard enough time keeping my ph down using kratky. I can't imagine having to fight it worse.

@youtubetruthlife4750 17 күн бұрын

Yep, DWC adds complexity to the process. I have great harvest of tomatoes and peppers with Kratky method, so no need for me to go DWC unless i like to punish myself.

@trishapomeroy9251 17 күн бұрын

@@youtubetruthlife4750 LOL YES! I'm glad you are having great success too.

@brenoqueen873 Ай бұрын

Since your experiment with krakty tomatoes i really dont see the point with DWC and airpumps. I much prefered the dutch bucket system which i now use and wicking raingutter grow, both only leaving a single reservoir to be check and topped, and just using a krakty for simplicity and not having to setup, waste power and money with airpumps

@croakingembryo Ай бұрын

Just a heads-up, you spelled "comparing" wrong in the thumbnail.

@Hoocho Ай бұрын

Thankyou!

@croakingembryo Ай бұрын

@@Hoocho No probs. Awesome video btw!

@andrrrew-76 Ай бұрын

Dude, this is not DWC. In a DWC system there is no air gap above the roots. The roots always fully submerged into water and receive all the necessary oxygen only from the bubbler. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_water_culture You built the Kratky system, only with bubbles.

@southy3667 Ай бұрын

I love this channel but was thinking the same thing.

@irock4312 23 күн бұрын

you should do hydroponic blueberries

@davinasquirrel7672 19 күн бұрын

Blueberries are perennials, perennials are a bit trickier to deal with (although I do my strawberries in kratky). But blueberries are more of a small bush, vs strawberries, small plant.

@User-huia Ай бұрын

Practicallicly NFT🤟BEST SYSTEM

@user-tm1ux6kn3l Ай бұрын

dwc needs to be toped up daily or its not dwc

@youtubetruthlife4750 17 күн бұрын

Why do it easy when you can do it hard? 🙃

@kevinmiller5467 Ай бұрын

14:50 Up until there was a difference because the DWC ran out of nutrient solution, they were the same. I think an air stone helps prevent root rot of which neither got because the temperatures were reasonable because these plants were grown inside.

@MouldySponge Ай бұрын

Agree. If the DWC water were to be kept topped up, it most likely would have come out on top.

@tvideo1189 Ай бұрын

It is hard to beat a "set it up, then harvest the lettuce" ease of the Kratky method. Why in the world would you bother with air pumps, air stones, tubing, running electricity, etc. when you can just plop the lettuce in the Kratky pots and that's it. I don't get it. Where is the value in the pump method????

@MouldySponge Ай бұрын

Dude this guy is growing a few heads of lettuce under a very expensive light blasting it with probably hundreds of dollars of Australian priced electricity and measuring his pH with an electric pH meter worth hundreds of dollars in a system that is 3d printed with even more expensive electricity. I'm pretty sure you can run a dwc system with less electricity than this and get way better results.

@tvideo1189 Ай бұрын

@@MouldySponge Perhaps so, you just haven't given a reason to do that. Kratky beat it, so why flog a dead horse.

@ronprince1478 29 күн бұрын

🤔👍👍

@LightBright708 18 сағат бұрын

It's just called non-circulating hydroponics. Bernard Kratky did not invent non-circulating hydroponics. Non-circulating hydroponics was being done centuries before Bernard Kratky was even born.