What's the difference in sound quality between horns and regular speakers?
Пікірлер: 237
@gotham612 жыл бұрын
People like the sound of horn speakers because they can convey a sense of liveliness and dynamics that direct radiating speakers have a hard time replicating. Remember, pretty much any time you attend a live music event that’s amplified, you’re hearing it through horn loudspeakers. So listening at home through horns gives the sound the same sense of “liveness.”
@mbell59502 жыл бұрын
Very few companies other than Danly and maybe Yorkville, and Yorkville only recently, use horns in their woofers in pro audio. Your information seems to be about 40 years out of date.
@gotham612 жыл бұрын
@@mbell5950 I’m talking about mid and high frequencies. Almost always done with horn loaded drivers, even today
@scottrussell22812 жыл бұрын
I have Klipsch LaScala AL5 speakers with a PS Audio BHK preamp and PS Audio M1200 Mono Block amps. I rarely go much over 25% volume, but nuances I hear, particularly in classical music are incomparable with non horn speakers. My father who is 87, says when listening to classical music on my system that he has never heard any other stereo that replicates the sound of "being there" any better than my system and he has attended more live symphony performances than anyone I know. Granted, much of this listening is from DSD based SACD's, but nonetheless, the sound speaks (well) for itself.
@johndough81152 жыл бұрын
Concerts are awful. They have the worst sounding equipment, and the live portrayals rarely come close to matching the CDs / Albums. Horns are used, merely for max volume levels, and longest projection distance possible. They are not built for accuracy of the sound. If you want to experience a live recorded concert... there is no need for using the same exact speakers that were used in the concert. Whatever was recorded, will be able to be reproduced, with perfect accuracy... on high precision tweeters... The only thing you wont get... is the chest pounding bass. And realistically, most people cant play their speakers at such a volume, anyways... as the entire block would hear (and feel) the music. Only a concert level speaker, thats like +800 watts each... can push that level of chest kicking bass. One can also use surround sound (at least 4 speakers), and digital processing, to create a fake stadium effect. (as if your room is the size of a stadium, with the included echo effects). Stating that horns are more lively and dynamic, is completely False. My guess, is that you have never heard any standard tweeters, that are anything but low level trash. The reality, is that the driver of a horn, could be exactly the same, as a non-horn tweeter. The horn shape, is what amplifies its volume levels... and causes distortions in the image and tones. Its like you cupping your hands around your mouth. It changes the way things sound... despite using the same Engine (your voice).
@Gnofg2 жыл бұрын
@@mbell5950 and it is the the first speaker that reminds me of a concert. I, like a lot of people was skeptical of horns. Look at all the reviews of the 530 and no says they are shrill or forward. If I was to upgrade I would but the HDI-1600 which a a more refined horn. This video sounds lo like a concert. You can even hear the hall. Any of the GD's shows from Winterland '74 sounds like a show. It is what they used for the Grateful Dead movie and they paid strict attention to sound live. The Dead is responsible for modern sound systems and if you ever attended their shows you would know that they have always had the best sound kzfaq.info/get/bejne/lcCaaKqEzd6aeXk.html
@dans5502 жыл бұрын
I. Worked at a hifi shop through the 90s and 2000, in 96 we picked up klipch and I fell in love emidiatly, 2 years later bought the best I could afford and still love them, they don't measure perfectly and are forward, but sound real to me. No other speakers give me chills
@yankee78092 жыл бұрын
I own a pair of Klipschorns. I got them about 40 years ago . I've yet to hear a speaker at any price that I like better. They, like many things have been priced out of the reach of many folks so I was indeed lucky. However they don't require super costly big watt amps to sound great. I personally like the fact that you don't need a pair of mono block arc welders for power to recreate a room filling, real sounding music experience.
@johndough81152 жыл бұрын
Horns are trash. They distort the 3d Soundstage image. Your exaggeration about power requirement... is laughable. I have a pair of EPI 100v speakers, with a concave tweeter, that easily put your horns to utter SHAME... in clarity, detail, and natural 3d soundstage imaging. The power requirements, would be virtually the same. I drive these speakers, with a 33yr old Pioneer 5.1 surround sound amp. I bought the speakers restored, for about $100 used. One of my buddies was recently gushing over these speakers at the high end audio shop, and wanted my opinion. I went there with him. The speakers were over $3000. They sounded like garbage, compared the my EPIs (with the updated version plastic-bezel tweeters). The most incredible thing about them.. is how the speakers vanish... and how well the music is projected into the room... as if the band is actually standing in the room. If I blind folded you... you wouldnt be able to locate the speakers. That how good they will fool you, with the 3d imaging. Furthermore... the sweet spot... is almost the entire room. Meaning, you could place the speakers 8 ft apart... and stand about 1ft right of the left speaker... and will still be getting a perfect balanced 3d stereo image... despite being far off-axis (not sitting directly in the center of the speakers). And finally, the Bass is fast, punchy, deep, powerful... and without the typical farty distortions that comes from Ported speakers. I was easily filling my entire attic with incredible sound... so despite their smaller sized boxes.. they produce good volume levels, and have little trouble filling a large room with sound. That attic was like 15x40 ft. of open standing space. Horns are typically used for Concerts, where you need maximum volume potentials.. and the longest projection possible. Clarity, and 3D Image, are not a consideration in a concert setting.
@felipecervantes78812 жыл бұрын
I don’t know why people like horns. After half an hour of my ears start to hurt.
@johndough81152 жыл бұрын
@@felipecervantes7881 I suppose these dudes might have poor hearing in the upper registers... and having over-powered and harsh tweeters, is the only way that they can hear this range well at all.
@johndough81152 жыл бұрын
@@liamprincetech Another Snowflake spotted, and Melting away. The fact is.. I grow tired of the Mountains of foul, stinky, BS, and outright corruption.. in the audio industry. Klipsche is one of the worst offenders... selling basic level garbage, for outrageous prices. But they are not the only ones that cause me great anger. The very corrupted studios, that Destroy the original recording... by compressing their dynamics to SH*T.. is basically a crime against humanity. I have every right to be upset... when someone spouts untruths... and I have every right to call such people out, on these falsehoods. Could I be kinder about my replies? Sure, if I cared enough to dedicated 5 more pages worth of "Dancing". But, I really do not care if I hurt fanboy level "feelings", with factual "Data". I didnt directly insult nor attack the person. There is a huge difference. Its the Over-Emotional snowflake radicals... that are destroying the world, these days. Its what happens, when Narcissistic Personality Disordered, get into positions of power and control...
@neilstern71082 жыл бұрын
Funny arc welders.
@richardclay2 жыл бұрын
I've been in the business since 1976. THESE days, I use a bookshelf horn-loaded speaker like Klipschorn, to increase the intelligibility of dialog in 5.1 HT systems I install. Older folks appreciate the crisp delivery of the horn VS the 'normal' speaker.
@AnalogueGround2 жыл бұрын
The horn speaker pros and cons debate exists mainly because we all hear mid range frequencies in a different way. Some people find them the source of acoustic pleasure where others find them irritating. Years ago I did an experiment in the studio with five non technical people and asked them to do a four fader mix of a simple track so that it sounded the most pleasurable to them. The results were astounding in their variety and nearly all the differences existed in the mid range. I also witnessed that people who loved mid range frequencies tended to eq the bass so that it accentuated the high bass and attenuated the low bass, giving the effect of shoving the frequencies more into the middle. It isn't surprising that sound perception should be different in individuals because it's as much to do with the brain as it is the ear. As audiophiles it's impossible to preach about what constitutes right or wrong but to my ears I'd always gravitate towards speakers that had clarity, definition and, above all, smoothness in the mid range - perhaps that's why I like ATCs.
@shipsahoy17932 жыл бұрын
Good point about preference; also note that testing has shown that the “sonic EQ” for women in general is a lot different than that for men in general, so it’s basically two sets of sonic differences.
@arifnizami33782 жыл бұрын
Years ago, I think it was around 2008, my perspective on Hi Fi changed the day I heard next to each other, a highly regarded B&W 800 series speaker and a pair of Avantgarde Acoustics Duo speakers both driven by monobloc Classe amps and pre's. There was no comparison in my mind anymore. The Avantgarde's showed scale, dynamics and tone that the B&W' s simply could not muster. This experience tilted my preferences forever. To my mind, a good horn speaker, a SET amp and a good turntable make a very memorable and enjoyable system.
@AndMakrid Жыл бұрын
Yeah, but the Avantgards are extremely expensive and they use a transistor driven subwoofer under each horn for the bass... 😏 They are a work of art though, and with the right Single Ended Amplifier they sound better than real!
@flavioc53892 жыл бұрын
If Paul stops printing e-mails, PS Audio expenses will drastically reduce 😆
@grumpy94782 жыл бұрын
like a lot of us old dudes, he processes info in analog format.
@digggerrjones73452 жыл бұрын
Agreed. Have you ever noticed it takes multiple pages for him to read a few sentences? What a waste of paper.
@BobTrainor2 жыл бұрын
Paul nailed it on this fact… ‘you get used to the sound’. I’ve had horns and non-horns. I confess I have horns now. Do I sometimes wish I didn’t? Yup. But most of the time, horns bring a liveliness and presence that is really engaging. Do they color the sound? Sure, but I’d venture to say they color the sound with a tonal quality that resembles the equipment used in live venues. They are not perfect by any means, but they sound really good most time, and sublime some of the time.
@dhpbear22 жыл бұрын
The next question should be "When you go back to your cone-based system after listening to the horn system, how does THAT sound?"
@BobTrainor2 жыл бұрын
@@dhpbear2 My cone based speakers sound good when I go back. But then when I go back to the horns they grab me. It’s a hard one for me. I do get tired of the horns and want a break but they are always exciting when I go back. I guess they are kind of like a hot girl friend that gets on your nerves sometimes. You need a break sometimes but you just can’t stay away. 😂
@DougMen12 жыл бұрын
No speaker is perfect, and they all color the sound to a degree, and anyone that tells you otherwise is a fool or a charlatan or both
@jimthvac1002 жыл бұрын
I wonder if your horn speakers just need placed on a scope and make the appropriate crossover changes to make them sound more natural?
@BobTrainor2 жыл бұрын
@@jimthvac100 I have a pair of Hersey IVs. I’m planning on covering the back of horns with dynamat. I’ll see how that goes. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jpdiec6gtq7HhJs.html
@tototronic22 жыл бұрын
Everybody has a different reference in their mind of what "real" sounds like, and what "good" sounds like. I have no doubt that the little extra "live sounding" energy from the horn's intrinsic amplification is very appealing to some listeners, and not so much to others. A person who goes to mostly large arena rock concerts will have very different expectations for their home speakers compared to someone who loves unamplified classical Quartets in small venues. Both can sound incredible and both sound completely different. It really depends on the individual listener's personal reference and preference. Contrary to the opinions of some of the commenters, there is no absolute right or wrong here...Audition equipment for yourself and purchase what you like!
@scottrussell22812 жыл бұрын
I very much appreciate your response. I've been through a lot the last 40+ years (I'm 59) trying to find "the sound for me". As it turned out, the room itself is as much a player in the final outcome of what I hear as the hardware producing the sound. I'm fortunate to have a dedicated listening room, and with a lot of research and experimentation, the room is optimized pretty well. While don't claim to have any real expertise in acoustical design, but after many years of experimentation I've found a sound that tickles my ears in just the right way. I've had a barrage of speakers and gear over the years ranging from tube amps to hybrids to solid state as well of a wide range of types and brands of speakers. My current amps are PS Audio M1200's and I'm using a PS Audio BHK signature preamp. And yes, my speakers are those horrible, awful Klipsch LaScala AL5's that John Dough would rather see burned than sold the public because horns ruin the "purity" of the music. It's all personal taste as you as you eloquently stated. For me, having 105db sensitivity speakers with 600 watt mono blocks has zero to do with the fact that it could probably kill me if I went nuts with the volume knob (which I won't at my age), but more about bringing out nuances that you've never heard before from older recordings. My system isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't be embarrassed to have any audiophile hear my system in my room. And even if they hated, it, it still sounds unbelievable to me, which in the end is all that matters. More responders to threads like this need to be less condemning and more accepting of the fact that no one is the same and when it comes to taste, there is no right or wrong, it's simply what the individual prefers.
@neilstern71082 жыл бұрын
@@scottrussell2281 of course there are many variables and many different amps and speakers even wires and room sizes. All play in the search of a great stereo. And they don't have to be a million dollar's.
@ford15462 жыл бұрын
If we talk about horns, horns in front of a speaker will always color the sound! But in some places you MUST use a horn treble. PA. concert speakers.
@neilstern71082 жыл бұрын
@@ford1546 very true, I always said if you want true sound, the speakers you get are JBLs ,Alta Lansing, Jensen something like that because. That's what they use in guitar amps.
@DougMen12 жыл бұрын
@@scottrussell2281 These people have apparently never heard a string quartet or symphony on a pair of La Scalas, which sound as lifelike on them as a jazz combo or rock band does, and bloes away most speakers of any other type. There are few high end speakers of any type, size, or cost, that I've ever heard that can compare to them
@Acoustic_Theory2 жыл бұрын
Normal direct-radiating speakers are very inefficient, on the order of 2-3%. When you wave your hand through the air, the air easily moves out of the way and goes around your hand to the other side where your hand just was. But if you pick up a piece of cardboard and wave it, the air creates a lot of resistance to motion. The larger cardboard creates that resistance because the cardboard is transferring more energy to the air. This is why larger speakers are used to produce low frequency sound. With a high frequency speaker diaphragm, there is a practical limit to how large and heavy you can make the diaphragm before you can't whip it back and forth quickly enough to make high frequency sound. So what we can do instead is make the air in front of the diaphragm appear much heavier to the tweeter, while also constraining its output into a defined pattern angle, and this is done through horn loading. The compression ratio in front of the diaphragm makes the air in front of the diaphragm act like it's much heavier than it normally would be, and this results in more efficient energy transfer from the heavier-than-air diaphragm to the surrounding air. You need a certain expansion rate, or "flare rate", to support a certain cutoff frequency, so that flare rate defines how the horn needs to expand. That's the simplest way I can explain horn-loading.
@housepianist2 жыл бұрын
Paul touched upon something that we audiophiles rarely talk about and that's our brains ability to "normalize" the sounds that we hear. I'm no psychoacoustic expert but our ears, based on a large number of variables, can adjust to any shortcomings (or strengths) of the sounds we hear in our music equipment. From time to time, I like to listen to my old IEMS and headphones that were once good at reproducing music in the way I preferred it then. Well, over time, they now sound quite different to me. But...if I listen to them long enough, my brain can "normalize" their sounds and make them enjoyable to listen to, even if I can pick out their "inadequacies". Of course, those IEMs/headphones didn't change. I did. Perhaps my brain is reminding me why I liked them in the first place.
@grumpy94782 жыл бұрын
the whole audiophile segment is based upon the nature of human sensing / perception / processing. we are initially exposed, habituated and subsequently exposed to novelty (in the best meaning). sometimes that is rejected, sometimes it's embraced (& all responses between). the rejection / embrace function is influenced by... everything. design, marketing, social-set, emotion are among significant non-quantifiable (at least easily or invariably) factors. thus, the passion, the hobby, the biz.
@chrisf72492 жыл бұрын
Every movie theatre has horn speakers, every concert has horn speakers. This guy doesn’t sound like he’s listened to any horn speakers in the last 50 years. There’s reasons that some speakers worth way more than anything he builds still use horns.
@mwrightinsurance2 жыл бұрын
I believe that reason is distance.
@brentcollins97272 жыл бұрын
Stevie Ray Vaughn through Klipsch Heresy’s is an incredible experience
@andysparks82452 жыл бұрын
Heard SRV on vinyl through a £10,000 valve amp into a pair of Avantgarde horn speakers, I've heard more expensive setups but never heard better.
@DougMen12 жыл бұрын
Paul Klipsch didn't like Heresys (no apostrophe, because to add one is incorrect grammar), hence the name. He felt any speaker that wasn't a fully horn loaded design to be heresy. The Heresy, Forte, and Cornwall are all quite compromised compared to La Scalas and Klipschorns.
@scottrussell22812 жыл бұрын
@@DougMen1 I've owned Heresy II's since 1981 and Cornwall IIs since 1988 and after trying many other brands and types of speakers, I finally upgraded to LaScala AL5's and there is NO COMPARISON between the Cornwalls and Heresys and the quality of the mid range with the LaScalas. Voices and strings in particular are nothing short of breathtaking. The Cornwall IIs had heavier bass, but I have a pair of SVS SB4000 subs that compliment the LaScalas nicely. I was 18 in 1981 and basically just listened to rock music. Over time my musical taste has evolved dramatically. I've come to appreciate headroom. I always thought the term was just marketing fluff until I finally bought a pair of PS Audio M1200 mono block amps. Those paired with the BHK preamp through the LaScalas is joyous. I'm hearing nuances that I never thought were there in music I've been listening to for decades, and hearing them at moderate volume levels. I've become a big fan of 105db sensitivity speakers with 600 watt mono blocks. Very little volume required to get the MOST out of any recording. The only fault is that poor recordings sound particularly horrible, as the system really brings recording shortcomings glaringly to light. I found a DSD sourced SACD in the UK of the Alan Parsons Project i Robot album and never can seem to stop listening to it until it plays all the way through. Large horn mid drivers are joy I don't think most (not even Paul) have every experienced in combination with the ideal equipment. To me they are majestic.
@DougMen12 жыл бұрын
@@scottrussell2281 The La Scala is my favorite speaker of all time
@mav92622 жыл бұрын
the soundest explanation/clarification ever, thanks!
@kevinwest16072 жыл бұрын
Love my Klipsch and almost always listen to vinyl.
@johnwaynetska Жыл бұрын
This guy has been needed in the audio collective for a long time. I love your explanations!
@heinzrenner56312 жыл бұрын
What I miss in this episode about the benefits of horn speakers is the effect of directivity! Dont' get me wrong, I personally totally agree with your statements Paul! But many people like horn speakers, as they cannot arrange unidirectional ("normal speakers") well in their listening room. Therefore they benefit of the directiv of horns as they are not so seinsitive to room resonances. BR heinz
@jonathansturm41632 жыл бұрын
Horns don’t so much amplify as act as an impedance-matching device that improves the overall efficiency. So Paul is correct that you get more sound out per watt of input. The main reason for the difference in sound between horns and more conventional boxen is due to comb-filtering. If you look at the frequency response of a horn speaker, the curve is much more jagged than for example a speaker in an infinite baffle. Some of the best speakers I’ve heard were horn-loaded. Tannoy come immediately to mind as well as a rather large home-made bass horn that was the listening room. An oddity of horn-loaded speakers I noticed back in the 1970s was an apparent reduction in the volume of clicks and pops that were the bane of listeners to vinyl records (almost everybody) and I’ve never come across a good explanation for the phenomenon.
@grumpy94782 жыл бұрын
I've noted that too... & speculate if the horn structure itself (all that surface?) acts as an acoustic filter... a physical NR filter on high-impulse transients. we need more physicists working on this... they're so much fun when they disagree, but new wisdom occasionally emerges.
@sMASHsound Жыл бұрын
@@grumpy9478 without knowing the terminologies, i suspect is that the musical frequencies gets amplified a lot more than the clicks, and it gets disappeared in the back.
@shipsahoy17932 жыл бұрын
Paul, that mental adjustment reminds me of that tired old argument of breaking in new speakers (or crossover capacitors) versus breaking in the listener 😉. ☕️👨🏻
@artyfhartie22692 жыл бұрын
Big horns create excitement and pulsation.
@louisxiiii2 жыл бұрын
I hear colorations in most horn speakers, with the exception of Classic Audio Loudspeakers Contemproary line. Hearing these at FLAX, they were the standout sound at the show. Natural sound, and they didn't need to be played loudly to sound good. Even wiht them playing at a satisfying level, I could carry on a conversation with the person beside me like I could (but don't) at a live symphony concert. I then took a trip to hear them with my own music at the company HQ, and remain convinced they are among the best speakers I have ever heard.
@abelabner2 ай бұрын
I think that was a great explanation, e.g. large movie theaters have horns everywhere to send those frequencies to such a large space with many listening positions.
@pancudowny2 жыл бұрын
Frustrated by the boom-cars that took over my local cruise scene, with their high-dollar systems and music I didn't care for, I cobbled together an ultra-low-buck system that could be just as loud... but for only $5! Employing my brother's "retired" in-dash head unit (Digital-tune AM/FM? Auto-Reverse Cassette) and borrowing a friend's 40-watt amp--along with a pair of old horn-style PA-speakers--I put together a system that wasn't just loud, it had "loudness" to it. How much? Let's just say: When I pulled next to a stereo shop's van, with it's wall of 10" subs & seven 350-watt amps, and he could hear me over his system... I got a thumbs-up from him!😉
@sMASHsound Жыл бұрын
in my country, the boom car guys are starting to go horn loaded enclosures now. what u did with 40w, is now being done with mulitple 2000wrms subs.
@OldTooly2 жыл бұрын
I've been an Altec Lansing fan for over 50 years, and I own A7-500's (4) and a custom pair of large floor standers based on Altec 811 horns, but I've discovered, to my dismay, that I have never given them the room or spacing necessary to hear them correctly. In reality, a tiny pair of stand mount speakers, (Celestion Model A compacts) with sub support actually sound quite a bit better at low to moderate spl, than the monsters I have used for years in my cramped little room. But if you have the room and can get 36ft or more from them, you'll take the big horns every time until you get into the megabucks systems that none of us will ever own.
@steveurbach30932 жыл бұрын
I have a pair of Altec 605A in custom enclosures (c1963). The horn is for Mid range UP. Case anyone forgot, highs are more directional tn the low end (I think this is why there are dome tweeters, to cause spread. My boss built a pair of Electrostatic panels. They were great sounding: ON AXIS: one chair wide. Move a few feet either way.....
@ford15462 жыл бұрын
Did you know that Altec. Harman Kardon. JBL. is owned by the Harman group?
@Carl-bd1rf Жыл бұрын
Nice to see Paul use the term “different” vs “better”. 👍🏻👍🏻
@MrMrpony Жыл бұрын
My third system has horns (klipsch forte) as it is for quiet bedroom listening..and it is just marvellous. Every night I goto sleep to it and the fidelity is astonishing. Throws out a really good listening volume and the horn projection means it isn’t intrusive and wifey doesn’t get pissy. But if I go downstairs to my main system and play my kantas on ultra low volume - that gets noise complaints very quickly. I was inspired to get these by my favourite jazz bar in Tokyo which runs huge Western Electric horns that are probably 100 years old. The life those speakers give is just electric, you can hear every toe tapping note crystal clear and it’s not background music but at the same time you can talk without impediment. So there are definitely good use cases.
@vagomaniac2 жыл бұрын
It’s dynamic contrast that you’re getting. Also the crossover tends to be much simpler if existent and that is magic. Not very accurate at the end of the day but... as always, it depends on the implementation (avant-garde audio). The late David Wilson had an extremely realistic take on the subject, that interview blew me away. The insight and perception of things that man had...
@flargosa2 жыл бұрын
I owned Klispch Palladiums for three years, never got used to the horned coloration. it sounded very dynamic and alive, but something about the honky coloration bothered me, like a tilted picture frame. Eventually, sold it, now I have Tekton speakers which has a dynamics of a horn without its coloration.
@ford15462 жыл бұрын
there are some places where you should use horns, and that is in large party rooms or music concerts! reasons are that dome treble becomes too weak and does not spread the sound so well. in the living room or a small room, 1 inch soft domes are the best to use and give the best sound, I think. If the speaker is made incorrectly, you will get a directional speaker. you should have the darkest possible sound in the midrange/bass and the widest possible frequency in the treble to get a speaker to spread well to the side
@theshootindutchman2 жыл бұрын
Very good explanation Paul👍. That's interesting to hear that you can get "used to" the sound of horns...... I've never tried that it had the opportunity to try. I've been an audiophile for 50 years and am "one of those people" to whom horn tweeters sound shrill and shrieky, very unpleasant. Maybe one day I'll try forcing myself to listen for a longer period of time. Joy, to me, is a well made silk dome tweeter 😊
@Gnofg2 жыл бұрын
I bought the JBL 530's and I really like the sound. For 50 years( my first good speakers were large Advents). I have attended over 250 concerts and it is the the first speaker that reminds me of a concert. I, like a lot of people was skeptical of horns. Look at all the reviews of the 530 and no says they are shrill or forward. If I was to upgrade I would but the HDI-1600 which a a more refined horn. This video sounds lo like a concert. You can even hear the hall. Any of the GD's shows from Winterland '74 sounds like a show. It is what they used for the Grateful Dead movie and they paid strict attention to sound live. The Dead is responsible for modern sound systems and if you ever attended their shows you would know that they have always had the best sound kzfaq.info/get/bejne/lcCaaKqEzd6aeXk.html
@theshootindutchman2 жыл бұрын
@@Gnofg Thank you sir😊👍
@philosophicallyspeaking64632 ай бұрын
As a retired orchestral wind soloist and recovered audiophile, I can tell you that the dynamism and 'nasal', mid-rich presentation of a horn loudspeakers better approximates how acoustic instruments sound in real space 'to musicians'. Ironically, audiophile retailers love to claim that musicians, both those who care about 'hi-fi' and those who don't, have very...'odd' taste in regard to audio systems, as if 'their' ears were some how...divorced from the reality of the instruments they actually play and play with. The truth is that there is a 'smoothing' effect pursed and caused by audiophile engineers in pursuit of something 'other' than natural in regards to the 'preferred' sound of dynamic speakers that no instrumentalist recognizes as natural. All orchestral instruments, played by top flight orchestral principles, are more mid-range 'present' than audiophiles would like to believe. It is the dynamism of that mid-band, not the presence of extended upper or lower partials that describes their sound and their talent.
@AllboroLCD2 жыл бұрын
Ive yet to find a PA style speaker that isnt horn loaded! Back in the day all the large venues/arenas would hire Altec to do their house PA installs, gorgeous elaborate rigs that looked like works of art!
@67daltonknox Жыл бұрын
I remember hearing a pair of Avantgardes at a specialist dealers. Used to Maggies, I couldn't cope with all the distortion.
@davidkclayton2 жыл бұрын
If you have the room size to accommodate full range horn speakers you will hear the benefits, such as LOW Distortion and fast bass @ high levels.
@DougMen12 жыл бұрын
That's BASS, not BASE. They're two different words with different meanings and it shouldn't be capitalized either.
@HailKingCeezer2 жыл бұрын
I heard the big MBL system(i've owned large horns my entire audio journey) and they sounded so strange to me at first. Didn't feel like real music, but then i got used to them and how the strange upper frequencies sort of float away from you wherever you stand/sit and there was zero fatigue at concert levels and i fell in love with the ease of listening and of course -just like horns-i'd fall in love with another type of speaker that gets hated on- omni directional.
@MrDingaling0072 жыл бұрын
I really enjoy single driver back loaded horns. Something very satisfying about them for me.
@tristanjones77352 жыл бұрын
Horns are very tricky to get right. If you get it right, it will sound better than conventional speakers and will have no coloration. You have to make a horn with a material that is non resonant, non reflective, and doesn't absorb sound. Then it's just a matter of using pretty steep crossover networks an tuning the horn or horns for their intended bandwidth.
@mwrightinsurance2 жыл бұрын
I think what you just described is a non-horn speaker. If it didn’t reflect sound then it wouldn’t function as intended. No?
@antonyharding53602 жыл бұрын
Good answer Paul,, Hard to answer 1 question which leads to 1000 questions, never the less,, . Good answer... Regards Antony Warrington England...
@watchnut2 жыл бұрын
I have had many different types of speakers and so far my Crites upgraded Klipsch Chrous II are the best sounding speaker yet. As you said with horns you don't need 1000W to sound great, mine sound amazing with my 6w tube amp to my 90w integrated. But, Paul is right, if you are used to regular speakers horns will sound "different" and vice versa. It all comes down to what you prefer, and I prefer the "live" sound of horns.
@glennh72972 жыл бұрын
I have a beautiful mint pair of Chorusll, and I love them, and may never get rid of them. They are great at low volume, and when you open them up with power they are just scary powerful. What upgrades have you added? I talked to Bob, prior to his passing, about rebuilding my crossovers and possibly going with the titanium diaphragm, but I have been working on a pair of 15" coax speakers in a 6 cubic foot slot ported cab, so mods to the Chorus may come next.
@rhorto0110 ай бұрын
I came to horns late. I grew up with acoustic suspension loudspeakers, so that is my baseline. I simply find horn loaded speakers more exciting. I don't really care about neutrality, and I certainly am no bass head, so modern horn designs just suit me. As a plus the high sensitivity means I don't have to PAY for watts out the backside, and if I want to play around with vintage equipment I don't have to think twice about if they can drive my speakers. I mix and match modern tube amps, modern solid-state amps and vintage solid-state amps and they all sound great. There is an article in a recent Stereophile where they were looking at attempts to have a Japanese style "high end listening room" bar experience in the US. What was funny was almost all of these spaces were using horns.
@AndyKub6 ай бұрын
I fell in love with the Klipsch k horn in the late 70s, early 80s. I damped the squawker with dynamat and it helped. But I remember hearing Dr Bruce Edgar’s horns. They did sound better. But that was, i think, due to the shapebof his horns as well as that they were made from wood. there is a third party upgrade kit for the horns with new drivers and wooden horns. i cant spend the 4K on it now, but ill bet its an improvement…
@TheReal19532 жыл бұрын
I always considered horns for the upper frequencies a 'cheat' or an exaggeration of sound. However, after you live with them awhile, they can be very endearing or Klipchorns wouldn't have sold so well for decades. Like Paul said, they were popular for low amplification applications. When you walk in a room and they are playing loud, it's like somebody with a trumpet right in front of you blaring sound. Very directional....they don't really lend themselves to spaciousness and a good soundstage with depth. But....your brain can overcome that if you insist on having them. I think they are configured today better than ever, but they're still horns.
@stimpy12262 жыл бұрын
Question… Why are Klipsch Cornwall and Heresy speakers still so highly regarded and expensive if horn speakers are outdated? I own dipoles but I know that so many real audiophiles love this type of speaker in their systems.
@henrikl13942 жыл бұрын
Klipsch horns are so much faster then regular speakers. Most regular speakers sound sluggish against a pair of Klipsch Horns.. . Had my first experience a couple a month ago. Change my mind completely after that.
@jeremiahpersinger37712 жыл бұрын
There are equally an amount of people that don’t regard klipsch heritage speakers as quality, I for one wouldn’t pay the price for any of klipsch heritage line. The build quality is far inferior to other speakers in their respective price brackets…I’ve heard jubilee and cornwalls and I was far from impressed. Decent but for the premium they charge, you e gotta do better than decent.
@stephenstevens65732 жыл бұрын
Yada, yada, yada...bottom line? Listen to what makes you happy. I don't own horn speakers, but I have heard many that I really love. Personal preference rules the day. Don't let any "audiophile" tell you differently.
@PSA782 жыл бұрын
Foghorns is also expensive. 😉 Everyone is free to put whatever they want in their living room, but for me Klipsch represents everything that can be bad about speakers.
@stimpy12262 жыл бұрын
@@stephenstevens6573 I agree with you completely. The music that we listen to on our systems should be a matter of perception of the listener and nothing else. Most audiophiles evolve over the course of years and change their likes and dislikes. I rarely listen critically anymore because it took the joy out of just letting the music come into my being.
@Canadian_Eh_I Жыл бұрын
The main benefit today of horn speakers is the superior polar response they give you by matching the directivity of the tweeter to the woofer. This can be done without a horn but its not easy or cheap to do so.
@Isaachsargent2 жыл бұрын
I got the JBL eon615 and I love them. I’m not sure about the horn aspect but they have wave guides on them and they sound great anywhere on my couch. Like the sweet spot is bigger and the dynamic range is impressive. But they are in todays world a big speaker but I consider them standard. But I should see what a frequency sweep sounds like. Fleetwood Mac sounds amazing on them and very life like. Definitely worth the money in my opinion.
@FOH36632 жыл бұрын
Yes, an acoustic impedance transformer, or horn, enables greater SPL in a given area with given power. But there's significant controlled directivity benefits of increased usability via a wide listening area. Cross fired controlled/constant directivity systems image and soundstage quite well over a wide area. Other typical platforms the image will shrink and only appear to emanate from the near speaker if you're off axis. With cross-fired C/D systems, the on-axis far speaker balances with the off-axis near... Time Intensity Trading For example if you're sitting offset left of center, you're closer to the left speaker, but you're more on axis with the far speaker... It works. We use both time cues and intensity cues when forming an image.
@2ridiculous412 жыл бұрын
Avant Garde horns are pretty much the best speakers i ever heard... of course that depends on the rest of the system. So if anyone wants to end me a pair...
@beamer.electronics2 жыл бұрын
A horn converts high-pressure, low-velocity acoustic air movements into low-pressure, high-velocity sound. Just a thought: With the contemporary need to reduce energy consumption - perhaps the epoch of the horn speaker isn't over.
@angelotig2 жыл бұрын
Thx, Dolby Digital, movie theatres and IMAX use horn loaded speakers? who pioneered the horn loaded technology? Paul Klipsch? JBL..Lansing engineers followed the science behind the horn technology.
@TheLeaderCinema2 жыл бұрын
Horn technology pre dated Paul Klipsch. Have a look at Westrex USA and Vitavox in UK and Tannoy pre WW2
@IceThatJaw2 жыл бұрын
I built a theater system in my Pops's unfinished basement and went with HSU Research speakers and they sound great compared to my B&W.
@bluemagic_69593 ай бұрын
So are horns considered speakers or magnified tweeters
@liamporter1137 Жыл бұрын
I believe horn speaker has a place in the music world. They're dynamic and fun. Like Klipsch speakers besides their looks.
@bingdong85712 жыл бұрын
Great video, learned a lot on this one
@albertobenavides2602 жыл бұрын
Watts out the wazoo 🥰.why do I love this man is so real always.
@Dane3p2 ай бұрын
I'm a fan of active speakers due to lack of room for setup but I'm intrigued as to hear from Paul wh he's thoughts are on the Klipsch Nines and the fidelity it has with it's horn setup.
@oneemotiva49754 ай бұрын
I think this is going to be a long debate. I no longer used Horn speakers, reason because I think my Sonus Faber Aida are way superior in sound, imaging and neutrality. Horn speakers take some time to get use to it. Horn speaker are faster response and probably in some instances much better, when normal drivers need to move to reproduce the sound which makes them slower response. They do sound different and that they are better or not, it is at the end a question of choice. I think we all hear sounds in a different way. So if you like Horn Speakers more power to you. It is your choice, so enjoy them.
@terryshort9449 Жыл бұрын
I'm iterested with your view on horns, I don't agree or disagree however with most driver cones being horn shaped, so with modern power amps etc etc aren't horns still part of the equasion? Or do all your own drivers have flat face cones?
@dhpbear22 жыл бұрын
How do horns sound different to you, Paul? do they 'squawk' or are they peaky in the upper frequencies?
@andrewfurst57112 жыл бұрын
One thing about the "big horn" speakers, seems to be that they need to play loud and be heard at a distance, to sound their best. For smaller horn speakers, that might not be the case, but those hardly seem like horn speakers to me. Klipsch has a reputation of being "party speakers", and that makes a lot of sense given their output. But for more intimate, lower volume, nearfield or semi-nearfield listening, I don't think the big horns are going to be desirable. They do have that "jump" factor, and they do have a bit of a "live band" sound; maybe that all helps to get a party rocking.
@The_Music_Sanctuary2 жыл бұрын
You love live recordings, get a horn system, you love regular recordings, do not get a horn system. I have owned Klipschorns, LaScalas, Hersey II's and now have Monitor Audio Platinum 300ii, like night and day.
@82ivaylo Жыл бұрын
I have Triangle speakers and i like the sound.
@philprocter2 жыл бұрын
An experiment we call all do for free. Sit and acclimate to your system. Have a glass of wine or a smoke. Put on something familiar and, half way through, cup your hands behind your ears. The change will be instantaneous and significant! Now, which one do you prefer?
@samjones19542 жыл бұрын
its actually more about impedance matching. The air has a high impedance and the horn matches the small driver impedance to the air impedance. Seems to amplify, but that is not true, it is more that your matching impedance. The other characteristic with horns is direction ability. By putting horns beside each other, you narrow the angle of projection of the sound.
@SkipG422 жыл бұрын
IMHO, different does not necessarily mean bad. I feel that a well tuned horn has a better transient response compared to a cone due to the lighter mass of the driver. My Klipsh KG 3.2 set provides response from earthquake to hypersonic frequencies. Listening to a disc of Japanese Taiko drums can be amazing as there are tones from the giant base drum to tiny temple bells and everything in between such as hard rim shots and mass mid range drumming. As to voice, listening to a celtic soprano such as Loreena Mckennitt is revelatory due to the clarity and timber of her voice. To me, she makes a typical operatic soprano sound irritating. Anyhow, the horns in my 3.2's provide all the sound quality I need.
@Ody-up6kg2 жыл бұрын
I am not a horn fan. But, although high wattage amps are not an issue today, horns are more dynamic.
@Bob-yl9pm Жыл бұрын
I believe that Exponential horns are the least distorting?
@edgar96512 жыл бұрын
Thanks Paul. I would like to hear more from you about what you described near the end of your video about getting used to one or the other system. I bought a couple of new computer speakers maybe 1/2 year ago. When I first listened to them, I was not impressed. Now I think they sound pretty good (for what they are). It seems our brain has its own equalizer and maybe other filters built in to make a system sound good for us if we listen to it regularly. What are your thoughts on this?
@kaedeschulz54222 жыл бұрын
Really depends on the Designer. Look at the frequency Response of the open 1001 diy speak for example from H audio in germany. Super flat response and them you look at the tweeters Response on the spec sheet. VERY VERY different and not flat at all. Very midrangy. All got flat by the design of the passive Xover which is a pretty simple one actualy. I don't have a preference to horn or direct loading speakers. Really dependa on what i want to do with em.
@edgeecards Жыл бұрын
I've had electrostatic, ribbon and dynamic driver speakers and find them lacking dynamics and presence of live, unamplified music. Horns I've had had peaky colorations at certain frequencies. But I've found the oblate spheroid waveguides for the mid on up dont have the colorations, very neutral. I use a DDS 10" oblate spheroid and a 10" woofer, for better xover transition, similar to a Geddes Nathan speaker. Certainly not perfect. $100,000 dynamic speakers can have a lot of detail, soundstage (something I dont notice much at live unamplified music or in nature) but why are they still dull, not dynamic sounding? One thing not talked about is horns couple the driver to the air very efficiently so less distortion happens.
@delcampbell9558 Жыл бұрын
People who categorically say they dislike horns probably have an axe to grind... It's rare that things are in absolutes. If someone said "i categorically hate diaghram speakers" same thing. There ar specific speakers you may not like, and specific types you may prefer...but absolutes.... ive had both, including some of the infinitys with emit drivers. I like them, but i most definitely prefer my various horn speakers thru both my mcintosh gear and my anthem gear. But i would never say i dont like any diaphragm or ribbon type speakers....matter if preference
@keatonjones6115 Жыл бұрын
could you talk about synergy/unity horns? Seems to be the answer for horns and covering a large frequency range with the 1 horn
@gerritgovaerts84432 жыл бұрын
depends on what kind of horn : only as a bass enclosure or also for mids and highs ? Mids and highs will be coloured by a horn but I sincerely doubt that lows are
@Ricky-cl5bu2 жыл бұрын
I have both and like both , and horns do image with a bit of work
@Tristan-lv9ki2 жыл бұрын
thx for the anwser i appreciate it
@kenhermansen38882 жыл бұрын
I think there is a diffence between back loaded and front loaded horns
@Channel-cm7yc2 жыл бұрын
A horn loaded loudspeaker is much like home theater it was alway meant for large audiences. I mean this in the sense that horns served to play to the mass’s on very little power which could be heard by the mass’s at a particular venue. Home theater or theater sound in a theater was created with same kind of of idea in that it captures that nuance of a 3 dimensional sound for a large audience. Where as as two channel stereo only one listener can obtain that full effect from the sweet spot. Horns tend to fatigue me personally and make me want to turn them off. I don’t find them to all that accurate and most live amplified venues really stink and sound bad to me and I’m not looking for that recreation in my home. Now I’m expressing my opinion on the subject, but that in no way makes that the final answer on this subject. So please be kind if you respond as I enjoy the topic very much!
@Cashmore1671 Жыл бұрын
My KHorn AK6’s sound more like a live performance than any speaker I’ve ever owned. What is normal?
@labalo52 жыл бұрын
Love my horns from oma/fleetwood!
@stonefree19112 жыл бұрын
I am not a fan of horns either. Too shouty for me.
@DougMen12 жыл бұрын
The ultimate objectivist reviewers on YT, like Amir and Erin, have given favorable reviews to several JBL horn speakers, and not so favorable ones to others. Amir really loved the small 2 way HDI1600 and Erin loved the big 2 way 4349.
@googleaccount74832 жыл бұрын
I know, i know people still loves horn speakers sound no matter what.
@Nomad-Rogers2 жыл бұрын
Aren't horns better for tweeters?
@jfdubre42512 жыл бұрын
BUT... as energy is getting more and more expensive... shouldn't it be a duty of the hifi industry to build great audio solution without these enormes watt numbers? where are the engineers? ;)
@stanmountain60602 жыл бұрын
I want at home to have sound similar I hear on live concerts ( mainly heavy metal) and only horn speakers can get close
@grandduke21452 жыл бұрын
I have a couple pair of horn speakers and several pair of dome speakers. Mid range is better in the relatively same price point dome speakers. The dynamics is better on the horns. Paul, I have a pairs of JBL Everest DD65000. I do not have a pair of non horn speakers on par with these, you want to send me a pair of yours for a comparison?
@TheSaNiOnE Жыл бұрын
When horns are so bad and colorfull as people here say, why is the Strauss SE-MF-2.1 or even the smaller version such a remarkable studio monitor? Praised by experts for its tonality who could buy nealry any speaker they desire? I dont own horn speakers... and I dont get the "hate" when its more or less clearly just the execution of the hornsystem what counts. There are a shit ton of normal speakers who colors the sound. Its a little like the discussion between dome or amt tweeters. Both are nice if done right...
@jimhamlin65512 жыл бұрын
Klipsch La Scala ..anyone???
@DougMen12 жыл бұрын
My favorite speaker of all time. No other speaker that I;ve ever heard has that immediate performer in your room quality that they posess. It's pure magic
@jimhamlin65512 жыл бұрын
@@DougMen1 I heard some Von Schweikerts years ago that gave you that immediate performer in your room experience at a sound shop in London I don’t remember the model but it impressed me and was the first time I had ever hear a speaker do that and the La Scalas are in the same class like you said unfortunately I haven’t won on the lottery yet! Lol Have a good one!
@TexasNEV4 ай бұрын
I like horn speakers when I'm listening to music where ummm there are horns in it. I bet if you took a horn driver element and connected it to the cone portion of a trumpet and listened to Louis Armstrong it'd be amazing.. Gee I wonder why. 😀
@johnpick83362 жыл бұрын
If you don't have tubes to push your horns you HAVE TO have an Eq. to tame those in your face mids that horns put out of your system
@Redheadedwizard2 жыл бұрын
What is the saying beauty is in the eye of the beholder I've always looked at sound the same way what sounds really good to me may not sound really good to you or vice versa it's actually a trick question do what sounds good to you even if it only sounds good to you
@neilparnell20892 жыл бұрын
I think the other reason people love horns is a lot of concert amplification is horns...so you in your home it kinda replicates that vibe
@johndough81152 жыл бұрын
False. You can easily replicate any pre-recorded "LIVE" performances, on a non-horn Audiophile grade tweeter. And if you are trying to replicate a live experience, without a LIVE recording... you are not going to get a Live sound.. just by using horns. For that, you just need a surround sound processor, with a "Stadium" mode output. Or the output of your PCs soundcards digital effects.
@neilparnell20892 жыл бұрын
@@johndough8115 my point was it's not identical, but it's similar style of sound, same for music in clubs
@johndough81152 жыл бұрын
@@neilparnell2089 A Club plays standard CDs, through the worst quality speakers. This is nothing to be happy about... Unless you are trying to play loud music for a huge house party. Where typical speakers would be drowned out, by peoples loud voices. But the thing is... most horns that people are speaking about.. are on speakers like Klipsche home theatre speakers... and you are NEVER going to get Club sound from such speakers. The main reason why people like club sound, is for the chest pounding, floor shaking bass. Not the Harsh horn tweeters.
@neilparnell20892 жыл бұрын
@@johndough8115 I work on the club idustry, most clubs play from usb sticks now with wav files and most of the best soundsytems use horns like Funktion one, I also play at audiophile bars like the type you get in Japan where the emphasis is put on High quality audiophile components too, look up THE LOFT in New York, it was a club that focused on hifi sound using Klipschorns and Turntables with Koetsu cartridges
@johndough81152 жыл бұрын
@@neilparnell2089 As Ive said.. if you are trying to project music in a large and LOUD environment then you tend to need horns... to help amplify the output levels, and throw distances. You dont need that, in a smaller home environment. And IMO, anyone that thinks horns are Audiophile level.. are not really audiophiles. Club speakers, are built for loudness. Not for superior accuracy, clarity, and long term "non-fatiguing" listening. I will put my old EPI 100v speakers (with the updated tweeter version) up against your best Horn speakers.. in a home theatre room... and anyone that listens and compares these speakers to the horns, will immediately choose the EPI 100v speakers. There is no comparison, in audio clarity, Spatial 3D soundstage, and non-fatiguing, all-natural, non-directional, sound.
@carlsitler90712 жыл бұрын
I'd like to argue with you but I can't, at least about horns. How about $100 plus cables?
@TheRockerxx692 жыл бұрын
I prefer compression driver and horn . Big listening salon. High volumes. Treated room. Three amps. Electronic x over.
@stephenvisk84772 жыл бұрын
This stupid old demo with hand cupping disingenuously exaggerates the effect of a modern wave guide. Modern horn design virtually eliminates that effect. The genius of a true compression driver coupled to a horn throat is the lowest intermodulation distortion (ie listening fatigue) and coupling that hard energy to the soft air, us horns guy want to pump it up not sitting on the edge of our seat listening for driver overload. Distortion and coloration are two completely different things. There is plenty of coloration in every step of the recording chain unless your having a pure tone sine wave party. Well yes that high efficiency is just a nice bonus. There is nothing like a powerful well designed horn system to connect with you brain and body. Not too many live concerts are using those nice ribbons. Musical instruments for the most part are very efficient and loud; my mother can attest to this practicing cornet in the fourth grade. Big power supplies and how bout a couple big meters just for fun. Yes have fun, that's what is all about. Buy some big old Klipsch, Altec or JBLs and enjoy the hobby. I'm going to see Lady GaGa in Chicago soon at Wrigley. Maybe some big ribbon drivers huh.
@Mark-lq3sb2 жыл бұрын
@Stephen Visk I agree with you. This cupping of the hands is a false exaggeration. If there were no merit to modern compression drivers/horns. Then speaker manufactures wouldn't spend time/money on developing new ideas. Such as JBL's Waveguide horn. BTY, I enjoy watching my big blue meters pumping power into my JBL compression driver/waveguide horn speakers. The foot tapping proves that horns are not dead!
@seeharvester2 жыл бұрын
I prefer horns.
@jimthvac1002 жыл бұрын
Would of been nice if you had explained how to make you would make the horn speaker sound good in "15 minutes".
@DrBroncanuus2 жыл бұрын
our ears are horns.....most instruments are of horn design......and all speakers are a horn design....any woofer is horn shaped...
@Hotel_Chuck2 жыл бұрын
Horn loaded speakers = 🐐
@faludabutt82532 жыл бұрын
Good reply. I ain’t getting used to my horns 😩
@faludabutt82532 жыл бұрын
@Taco I got ARC Vi75 which doesn’t give much bass. Then I got luxman tube pre connected to STELLAR S300. ForteIII sounds harsh. Non horn speakers are sweeter. Now I use horns only for jazz n blues, Nina Simone etc
@faludabutt82532 жыл бұрын
@Taco Do you listen to rock or metal on them 😊
@faludabutt82532 жыл бұрын
@Taco that’s true
@vat83672 жыл бұрын
fun starts when horn loaded subs come into play :)