I admit to liking both your wagons and the tender-based ones. I am glad that Hornby have tried to expand the range of Era 1 models, despite the compromises that remind me of what they did in the 1970s with various wagons and coaches and even some engines.

Not a massive fan of the era 1 stuff, but I gotta admire the detail and effort that HORNBY have put into the range…

Looks like a nice train pack and nice to see hornbys era 1 range expanding.

How tiger is modelled is very much how Lion was recovered in the 1920's (except she had lost her tender and rear wheel sets) and the brass cowling on the "haycock" firebox was fitted in the 1930's rebuild, and if you remove this brass work, that is how the firebox proper looks on Lion, the brass being fitted to create a dummy haycock firebox. According to the sources I have read over many years, Tiger is reasonably close to correct to her latter working guise, (there may be minor dimensional inaccuracies), Lion and Tiger were both rebuilt in 1841 with larger higher pressure boilers, which required longer frames to be fitted, the frames of Lion were not changed in length during the restoration. Lions tender was in fact a Furness railway tender cut down in the 1930s to suite, and not like how the original is believed nowdays to have looked. There is engravings of how these locos looked in the 1830's, but if you look at (which is now called) Lion in the photos as when it was recovered from the docks (and before being "Restored" by a committee) Hornby's Tiger looks very much like that. Lion as restored is a beautiful locomotive, but nothing like how she worked commercially. Lion was further modified in the 1980s when rebuilt by Rustons Ltd of Lincoln, which saw the fitting of lorry type air brakes and revivors to the tender. As for the coal wagons, your talking complete Balls. You need to do your research into rocket in order to ascertain their accuracy. The full size rocket tender used during the Rainhill trials (as modelled and represented in the replicas that have been built) was a standard L&MR coal cart with (what I was told) a brandy barrel added for water, and the front plate removed. These are accurate representations of the standard coal cart, if that used on Rocket was correct, but remember by the time Rocket entered revenue service, she was rebuilt to lower the cylinders and a "modern" tender fitted as used on locos such as can been seen on the replica Planet, and at sometime fitted with a more modern boiler. You might not like the era 1 rolling stock (other than the passenger coaches) that are very accurate as modelled "IF" the artistic impressions of the 1830/40's are accurate, however I agree it should have been less than £10 lower in price compaired to the Lion set. I wish these models had an option to fit nem pockets, and use small hook and tension couplings.

Time for someone to remake 'Tenders for Henry' with Stephenson's Rocket

👍Really Great review Sam, Thank You ! Love Era 1 , so I much appreciate their attempt . Livery/paint scheme vs. Lion ,not so much. Your 3D coal wagons are very cool .

Excellent video, thank you. Don't be too hard on the Hornby wagons: there are two stories about the tenders of Sans Pareil and Rocket at Rainhill: one that they were built by local coachbuilders and the other that they were converted from existing wagons (although some illustrations show SP with a totally different tender). There is a contemporary sketch (I can't find it at the moment), which shows a "coal wagon" which is not entirely dissimilar to the Hornby version- although I'm more inclined to believe that these were were actually spoil wagons- being available in 1829 and having end opening.

This is great. I was waiting for this review. Thanks Sam.

Great wagons. Absolutely great work

Thanks for another great video. As you said the loco is lovely. I am OK with the Hornby wagons but yours look like a better item and I look forward to them becoming available.

Another great review. I’m happy with my Tiger as Lion will be the Rapido one. As for the wagons I’m creating a fictional 1930’s LMR gathering so I have licence not to be protypical. However really looking forward to your coal wagons. I just wish Hornby would release the post coach as a separate.

Hey Sam I got your 3d Christmas stuff in the mail last saturday, so it did come. Thank you very much for all the things in there :) Cheers Jasper & Willow

Great video Sam! Do you think they will do the old locomotive planet next? I’d love to see it!!

Awesome video today Sam beautiful locomotive might get one and you should do a video on your wagons

On my hornby class 66, the crawl is phenomenal. Even with 20 wagons

Quite a model if you ask me, planning to purchase myself either the rivarossi Big Boy or the L&MR Lion pack

good vid sam nice loco nice coal wagons thanks lee

Hey Sam - I've just ordered the "Tiger" & should be with me in the next few days...I didn't realise about the Wagons (or should that be Rockets Tenders!!!😀) I'll look forward to you Wagons - I see you've got a different type of coupling - yep I may buy it when they are ready - Thanks for sharing 🙂🚂🚂🚂

Super amazin. My dude Sam is the train man. Update for my video is coming soon and my new train should be here soon. And I made a experiment with one of my trains so I'll make that video later on today

Wow this train pack looks really nice 👍😊

This looks amazing!

Glad to see Hornby putting much more effort into the era 1 stuff than their recent modern stuff. While we know little to nothing about Tiger, it’s nice that Hornby bit the bullet and gave it a shot anyway. And it’s especially good that effort was put into differentiating her from Lion cosmetically.

Great review and beautiful loco! Would be nice to see era 1 locomotives and rolling stock in TT or N scale. I have some track lying around!😁

Interesting review. I think I prefer the look of Tiger, when compared with Lion. Were those coal wagons available separately from Hornby? I wonder if Hornby package them with Tiger as a way to clear the stock? Your 3D printed wagons look much better, they are models to be proud of.

Being picky, with chain coouplers, including 2oth century hook and eye, you set back first and pick off one vehicle at a time, they do that at Pendon and it's a good crawler test.

From what I've heard, tenders in BR days were used as coal wagons. Honestly, using Rocket's tender as coal wagons doesn't bug me.

Sam, I gotta say "That's a Charming little nugget!" Not a huge fan of the multi color as it looks slightly busy. Wagons are just as Trinket also, I wonder if the molded chain could be replaced with jewelers chain? I'm sure it would make for an interesting Birthday Cake Decoration if nothing else! Have a great day Sam, Cheers! 😁🎂🚂👍

Great video sam, I do love the hornby era 1 locos, but having said that, I think the rocket and rocket train packs were way too overpriced

Awesome video Sam's trains

I have seen an image of Rocket pulling this type of wagon, so it may be prototypical!

Would a change to a true metal chain from Billings Boats improve the coupling behaviour? or does it bounce around too much

I’m a huge sucker for era 1 so I need to order one 😅

Great review Sam, you really give hornby a mauling. Would love to see you interview Simon and ask him about the incredible variations in value between various models and sets. Can't believe the nerve of those wagons at that rrp.

im wondering if the magnetic chain coupling's from the Chauldron Waggons would work better on these if glued to the pegs on the rolling stock

By the time you put people in the wagons or coal in the wagons the weight maybe ok since the overall weight to pull is likely increased substantially when these are added. For this loco it seems artistic changes are made to differentiate the two locos . Having recently seen lion the carriages seem give it much better value . Better to have it than not and better idea than the 120 TT at present

See the three locos together , I think Hornby have done a reasonable job , just seems the rolling stock let the tiger down but glad to see new tooling and not rehashing of Lima stock

Devils advocate…. Isn’t the Rocket tender just a coal wagon with the end gate removed and a water barrel added? So these are simply removing the barrel and putting the end gate back on..

That giant brakeman learned a couple new things, firstly, how to couple those new couplers. Give him a raise in quid, he's diversified his job.

I've just realised we're on our way to April... I'm ready for that April fools video XD

Quite a looker, this one

Should those "chains" be slack when the tenders are being pulled?

Gotta' get some of your TBA Sam's Trains coal wagons ! (with coal loads ?)

Wow cool review Sam’s trains y’know I could get some era 1 locomotives and wagons but they are very expensive and also I could get some Bachmann thomas and friends locos like I said about the era 1 locomotives and the wagons they are very expensive, I think you should get 3 bachmann Gordon’s express coaches (2 composite and 1 brake coach) and the same with bachmann James’ express coaches

Interesting! - great that you're taking the lead in providing some better wagons. Maybe there's an extended range possible there: I believe the L&M transported cotton, and presumably that had to have covered accommodation. Also there would have been flat-bed wagons for transporting rich customers' road carriages. Did they also carry livestock? - horses, cows, sheep, pigs, chickens? There's a whole early Victorian world awaiting ...

I also wish someone could make an inverted version of “Triumph of the Thunderbolt” from the film and play it over a heroic montage of Tiger saving a railway.

I think *you* could have done something of similar quality (the loco) with the 3D printer, and then maybe coupled it with the Accurascale wagons. One more thing, I've been wondering about making an Old Copperknob, but I've been struggling to find the right motor. Any ideas?

Oh, the era uno items are genuinely so lovable! A tad of a lazy approach by H here and there for the money indeed. The instructions could have been labeled 'Lion/Tiger' as for starters, but the wagons are of course quite lax. However, one needs to be a profound rivet counter perhaps to notice discrepancies, if all details can be researched at all. Overall, we just love it ❤❤

I love the 3D printed wagons, I was wondering why they looked 3D printed in the intro!

Cool!

One other change they also missed was the wooden cladding would have painted green like the tender

I had a similar experience with the Hornby Imperial Airways set. Locomotive and coaches lovely but the luggage van ordinary. I would prefer a consistent standard in a train set.

Hi Sam, DCC didn't improve the crawl on Lion so I imagine it will be the same with Tiger

From watching Hornby a Model world it looked like they based Tiger on the photo of Lion being recovered as a pumping engine

@SamsTrains At 14:00, the wooden lagging on the boiler is SOP for the era, as are the brass bands holding it on. It's good insulation, and cheap. Not unreasonable at all.

I like your new coal wagons. The Hornby wagons do look like crap. Nice review. I have to add that, as an American, I really like the wheels on your rail cars. Nice big wheels do look cool. Stay safe - Larry.

Is there anyway you can change the couplings on the era 1 locomotives?

I'm having the same issue as you did Sam with my Hornby Tiger. It won't start or stop smoothly or crawl. The tiny Peckett W4 performs much more smoothly. While turning Tiger over a crank fell off, but fortunately could be carefully pushed back into a hollow axle end. I suspect Hornby have fitted a much too fast a motor for a loco especially with fairly large wheels. I'm now trying to find a way of speaking to Hornby about it.

Hey Sam, You're so great in printing stuff, could You do a decent front bogie with splashers for the Caledonian/LMS Single wheeler? This massive gap under the running plate must be changed! Please let me know what You think about it!

You oughta make those Hornby wagons into Minecraft mine carts. That'd be cute

I wonder if Lion and tiger were originally 0-4-0 locomotives, there are some paintings of very similar locos that are only 0-4-0, no early paintings of 0-4-2s

My comment isn't related to the video but I have a Bachmann class 25 diesel with a coupling on one end but I want to install one on the other end. The coupling is a screw type coupling but seems a longer than usual one and can't find the correct one for the other end. Can you tell me where and which type I can get this type of coupling from?

The thing is, we DO know what Tiger looks like! Samson, another of this type of loco, was ordered at the same time as her, and we have drawings.

Just sell the loco solo for 150GBP Hornby, and I'd be interesed. I don't need the "garbage" anyway. Hopefully Rapido's Lion better, but have to wait and see. Although I like this style of firebox much better!

I like the loco, wagons not so much. Accurascale Chaldron wagons show it should be possible to make something less like a toy. Look forward to your efforts!

The major problem with era 1 is basically a lack of locomotives and good rolling stock. So far we got three models and some passenger cars.

I have a HO layout Can i still run with those coal wagons you made?

Horse drawn carriage wagons, there are paintings of these

I haven't watched your videos in a while, good to know you haven't been hunted down by the Bolton Public Library

Does it come in livery with stripes ?

Over the moon with hornby producing this model Lion & Tiger. Unfortunately, Hornby show there weak link in accuracy, locos would not be racing along at high speed in this era plus a decent five-pole motors and lower gearing would have made them world beaters. Keep up the good work Sam. Regards David

Tiger would look good with some Chaldron wagons (Accurascale?).

I think the wagons are an excellent addition to Hornby's lineup, at about $5 each, and $3 of that is the cost of the wheels. This hobby needs more cheap and attainable models. ...what's that, they cost how much!?! :P

Strange but not surprising thinking from Hornby about the ridiculous coal wagons and what's with the loop in coupling the chain? Nice job on your wagons though.

Have pick tiger Hornsby R30348 Era 1 L&Mr no 58 this come with out the coal truck and was a £125.99 at FMR MODEL'S do you still do the coal truck you showed on your video

Strange looking Tiger... No tracks or 88mm Gun? how did this strike fear into the allies at Normandy? :P

There a photo on Wikipedia of what the tiger class looked like back then

where are the bluish open top carriages?

I get why hornby are reusing the mold from the tender for the waggons because molds are expensive but if you do it make the price reference it so instead of almost 80 pounds make it 30 because no extra work was needed except that fourth side piece

I'd love to see GWR broad gauge locos on your channel some day

So I saw this clip random on YT, and maybe you know more about the train. It looked like a 2-6-2-2 loco. Two leading wheels, 6 drive wheels, 2 more drive wheels, with the piston facing the opposite direction, then another two trailing wheels. Any idea what this engine is?

I think people will get this is to make up a "Titfield Thunderbolt" without getting the Rapido pack

Maybe you can make some crew for it.

Hey Sam, if you wanna try out a new manufacturer and spend a ludicrous amount of money at the same time, have a look at the upcoming Märklin/Trix Flying Scotsman. It will be H0 (not 00) scale, largely made of metal, sound fitted, equipped with lots of light functions (something which 00 steamers never seem to have) and available in both three-rail (Märklin) and two-rail (Trix) pick-up mode. It will be a very "odd one out" model, both for their range (being British) and in terms of UK steam in general, being H0 and even available in a three-rail version. RRP is 590 Euros...

Hi Sam, thanks for the review. The Hornby wagons look okay, maybe they considered the locomotive is something of a guess so no point in worrying about the wagons. The issue, given their simplicity and use of existing tooling, is their price - ridiculous. £150 for the pack would have felt much fairer. That said I model 009 and those product prices make oo gauge seem good value. Your wagons look great. With your expanding range - Have you considered moving to resin printing? You would likely achieve better print fidelity and I suspect quicker print times for full build plates.

Now Hornby better make a model locomotive called “bear”

Help ! Help ! Runaway train !!!! please please put the crew on board cheers

Era 1 is the future. Anyway how about Era 0, with Sheffield Handcarts?

Could era 1 be considered pregrouping? I mean it was before the grouping act so...

I rather like the little wagons; they even used metal wheel sets instead of cheap plastic ones. Rather a pity these are era 1 rolling stock; good couplings hadn’t been invented yet. In a pinch, you could put almost any small items (like OO-scale boxes, or some naughty passengers) in them! Hell, you could even paint some of the wagons red and green for the Christmas season.

Its the Titfield Thunderbolt 👍

I just got this train pack the other day off of Amazon for $140 I really like the locomotive, but it’s the coal cars that let it down for me as well. I am also not a fan of the era one couplings.

Hi Sam, Some way of 'marketing' as is more and more common practice...

I do wish manufacturers would gear locos properly. OK they have to accommodate all controllers but running at double scale speed is crazy.

In issue 491 of Steam Railway magazine author Anthony Dawson points to evidence that the locomotive preserved as Lion was not the one that originally had that name. Mersey Docks and harbour board had bought several ex Liverpool & Manchester locomotives and only anecdotal evidence suggests that the surviving one is Lion. On that basis the chance of Tiger being an accurate loco when it is a modified tooling of the 1981 condition, rebuilt in the 1930s potentially misidentified loco seems slim. Having said that the loco is attractive in itself and if you want to buy the model then that’s fair enough. There is no photographic and only vague documentary evidence of what these early engines looked like so a little artistic licence is acceptable.

Why not try doubleheading the lion to the tiger.

I've got to say that these Era 1 locomotives do look a bit strange running around with no crew.

This model of Tiger from Hornby is nice and I do like but the coal wagons are just awful which I have to agree with you. They are just Stephenson's Rocket's tender just repainted and modified to make them look like wagons which is just very lazy and cheap. I prefer your 3D printed coal wagons which they look much better and superior Sam.

I think I can justify buying one of these two train packs. I prefer the look of Tiger to Lion but man, those wagons…

I returned my Tiger to Simon Kohler who said it should be capable of crawling. It eventually came back, with no comments and is no difference in running to when I sent it. As Simon has now retired (I think?) I may have to take Hornby at a higher level.

Well, I don’t know about that. A tender IS a sort of coal wagon, now, isn’t it? And it’s clear that the Lion “tender” was a coal wagon with a barrel for water, and one side removed so the fireman could shovel the coal, lest he dump it over the side in frustration (or on top of the Engineer!) Or maybe the barrel was to hide an ancient 19th century DCC decoder! 😌 Maybe they were distilling some hooch in the barrel; so little is known. 😢