How a Subway Company Built More Roads

Рет қаралды 8,856

5 ай бұрын

Railfanners like the ambition of the IND Second System. After all, many projects, like the Second Ave subway, Utica Ave subway, Queenslink, SE Queens Line, and Flushing Line extensions are needed in the NYC Subway. However, the IND was also a roads program, and in this video, we will examine how the IND built more roads.
Sources/Further Reading
A huge thank you to Vanshnookenraggen, which brought this topic on my radar.
www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_in...
rayortigas.github.io/cs171-in...
www.cityneighborhoods.nyc/que....
www.qchron.com/qboro/i_have_o...
www.nytimes.com/2004/04/18/re...
secondavenuesagas.com/2010/11...
Pictures
urbanomnibus.net/2012/02/plan...
www.oldnyc.org
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRT_Six...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRT_Thi...
www.pexels.com/video/cabs-pas...
www.pexels.com/video/traffic-...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queens_...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/82nd_St...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronx_R...
www.pexels.com/photo/black-me...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankli...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiorell...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiorell...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propose...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propose...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_C...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRT_Sec...

Пікірлер: 64

@Urban_Man 5 ай бұрын

7:30 Speaking of Robert Moses, I heard that planners proposed for LIRR to run down the median of Long Island Expressway, but Robert Moses didn't want it.

@aqua2poweros699 5 ай бұрын

L Robert Moses ngl

@whoandgo 5 ай бұрын

Every time I turn around, I'm reminded of how much of a fuckin weezer Moses was. geez .

@Eli-ss9gj 5 ай бұрын

Honestly the more I hear about Robert Moses the more and more he sounds like he sucked.

@381delirius 5 ай бұрын

Because he knew drivers would see the Metro passing them and actually consider public transit.

@DTD110865 5 ай бұрын

@@381deliriusMore like the fact that the LIRR was there since the 19th Century, and there's no reason to relocate the line just to put it in the middle of the Long Island Expressway.

@williamerazo3921 5 ай бұрын

IND is run by the city and board of transportation. Way different than the privates

@EpicThe112 5 ай бұрын

7:59 The southern segment of the Van Wyck expressway has Train Tracks on an elevated line it's the JFK AirTrain. The solution would be an El line down the expressway and also a Rack railway system if the Subway were to use the lower level of the Verrazano Narrows Bridge due to its steep gradient. Looks like the IND avoided communities of Color. Unlike the IRT which went through them like the 2,4,5 & 6 Trains in the South Bronx and also the IRT eastern Parkway line

@DTD110865 5 ай бұрын

The IRT also built many of those el lines through the Upper East Side and Upper West Side, both of which have always been mega-rich neighborhoods.

@JP_TaVeryMuch 5 ай бұрын

As an interested bystander from across the ocean, I thank you for lernin me sthg new. I'd not heard of this version of Cut and Cover before. I wonder if you have the same property laws as we do here. In the UK, you own the land down below and up above as well. This is the reason why early 20th century cost -conscious UndergrounD railway builders used C & C down the middle of the street. In the case where there were too many lines to fit, they'd dig a little deeper and put them one on top of the other. The closer to the centre of town, they even did this with stations sometimes.

@IIAOPSW 5 ай бұрын

American cities, being generally laid out on a street grid system, are particularly well suited for cut and cover subways. Any given street can be counted on to continue in a straight line for a fair distance.

@jakubhanak41 5 ай бұрын

The Concourse line was supposed to cross the Bronx River via a bridge? First time hearing that

@jointransitassociation 5 ай бұрын

Yes, in Jacob's Raskin's book, The Routes Not Taken, in order to cross the Bronx River to serve NE Bronx, a bridge would have to be built, and there is a picture of what the bridge would look like. I am not sure if I can show it in the video because of copyright, but I do recommend that book though.

@jakubhanak41 5 ай бұрын

@@jointransitassociation interesting, thank you!

@deanbianco4982 5 ай бұрын

@TechTransitAssociation: @ minute 1:31 Where is this footage taken? The level change of this D train is intriguing. Is this the interlining flying junction of the D just south of the W 4th St 8 Ave/6 Ave station?

@darkgalaxyi_o_l_o_i7831 5 ай бұрын

Its West 4th St; take a southbound 8th ave local train and after leaving the station, the 6th ave local track appears.

@scottydude456 5 ай бұрын

I don’t think that there is any other single individual that fills my body with more rage than Robert Moses

@ron234halt 5 ай бұрын

Moses divided the Red Sea. Robert Moses divided communities.

@DTD110865 5 ай бұрын

@@ron234haltRailroads can "divide communities" just the same.

@ron234halt 5 ай бұрын

@@DTD110865 hence the statement, "born on the wrong side of the tracks".

@DTD110865 5 ай бұрын

@@ron234halt But people are okay with the Harlem Line cutting through their neighborhoods. For the record, it has never really been about dividing communities. It has always been about getting people from point A to point B.

@compdude100 5 ай бұрын

@@DTD110865 But it's less of a division than that of a freeway. And living next to one doesn't subject you to as much noise and air pollution, especially if the train is electrified.

@alidycepaisley3829 5 ай бұрын

😂 Man that would have been crazy for the D train to run up Boston Road on the way to Baychester. (That used to be my old neighborhood.)

@apexhunter935 5 ай бұрын

First. Edit: i forgit if it was grand concourse or queens blvd, but i heard that one of those two was meant to be designed in a way to replicate that boulevard in paris with the arch de triumph

@JP_TaVeryMuch 5 ай бұрын

Champs Elysée

@DTD110865 5 ай бұрын

They were also proposed to be upgraded into genuine expressways, but Moses changed his mind and decided it wasn't that important. The same goes for Woodhaven and Cross Bay Boulevards. Personally, I disagree with him on that.

@frankiecrocker 5 ай бұрын

It's called BMT not BRT.

@mitchbart4225 5 ай бұрын

Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit Corporation (BMT)

@DTD110865 5 ай бұрын

@@mitchbart4225The BRT is the predecessor of the BMT.

@KSmall109CAB 5 ай бұрын

@@DTD110865 That is correct! Some of us may remember the BMT because that was a term used by the New York City Transit Authority into the 1970s.

@ECRALSE40LPS 5 ай бұрын

Overall, It doesn't make sense to make roads and subway extensions at the same time like I understand for certain parts but this too much, I had a feeling that IND 2nd Avenue Line would have locals going on crosstown and express to the bronx to serve dense neighborhoods. that way roads won't be in use and boost frequencies to be 3-4 minutes and de-interline dekalb, QBL, and even mott interlocking can benefit low income.

@nickels4828 5 ай бұрын

As a QBL rider, this was very interesting. The history of redlining and Robert Moses is so messed up.

@qjtvaddict 5 ай бұрын

Now the IND is in complete disrepair with its stations in worse shape than the IRT and BMT El lines

@Neville60001 5 ай бұрын

How is it like that?

@TheFlyingMooseCA 5 ай бұрын

Love the detail down to the specific street widths - it's clear a lot of research went into this. Have you read Last Subway by Philip Plotch? It focuses more on the 2nd ave subway but there's a decent amount of historical context in there about the relationship between getting rid of the El accommodating more automobiles political/personal visions that controlled the BRT/IRT/IND, like LaGuardia keeping IND fares low to depress the value of the other networks to make them easier to acquire. You might like it!

@romanrat5613 Ай бұрын

The IND might've destroyed a lot of people's houses and businesses, but it also directly served those areas with high quality mass transit, unlike the expressways which carried cars that the nearby residents could not afford.

@abenm613 5 ай бұрын

Grand Concourse is another example.

@alexisdespland4939 5 ай бұрын

why are houston street and the city of hiuston pronouced so differently.

@Aceve14 5 ай бұрын

Houston is pronounced as "Hyu-ston" in Texas, where in New York it is pronounced as "How-ston".

@billlauretti7963 5 ай бұрын

They are named after different people. Houston Street in NYC is named after William Houston, who pronounced his name "HOW-stan". The city in Texas is named after Sam Houston who pronounced his name "HYOO-stan".

@alexisdespland4939 5 ай бұрын

@@billlauretti7963i know what sam houston did but what did william huston do. is william huston related to whitney housyon.

@de-fault_de-fault 5 ай бұрын

Named after different people and each is pronounced the way that person said their name.

@mitchbart4225 5 ай бұрын

@@alexisdespland4939 He was one of the Founding Fathers of the US.