The future of the Church lies in a return to the Mass of Ages and adherence to the faith and doctrines of our forefathers.
@thunderthumbz32932 жыл бұрын
No, the future is the reform of the novus ordo to become more like the TLM and then that becoming the sole form of the mass of the Roman Rite.
@Drummarforhire Жыл бұрын
@@thunderthumbz3293 I can't accept that, The Novus ordo, while valid and licit, represents a sharp rupture from what came before. Nearly every prayer and every line of the mass was changed in the span of about 5 years, ancient collects that had been in the missal since the time of St. Gregory the great were altered or thrown out entirely. Less than 15% of the prayers made it into the new mass unadulterated. The rest were edited to fit the sensibilities of the reformers. It's an almost entirely fabricated rite and is far far from what was envisioned by the council fathers in SC which is a really beautiful document.
@thunderthumbz3293 Жыл бұрын
@@Drummarforhire The entire Roman Canon from the TLM is found in the NO. There is maybe a fair amount of change but no rupture. The liturgy has always been changing through out history but the substance has always remained. According Suarez, LiGouri and others the prayers and accidents are not what make the substance of the mass. Those are accidents and can be changed as the Church desires. Christ didn't hand the apostles strict rubrics, take that into consideration.
@Drummarforhire Жыл бұрын
@@thunderthumbz3293 yes, the Roman Canon is found in the new rite (mostly) unchanged. But very little else, just compare the collects from the NO to the ones for the same feasts in the 62. You will quickly see that many were rewritten entirely, and many more were edited in order to omit references to sin, hell, and punishment. Some even cast doubt on the existence of canonized saints. Other saints were tossed out of the calendar altogether. they took a rite that had developed organically for 1500 years, and rewrote it in less than a decade, changing quite literally everything to fit their own sensibilities. From the Time of St. Gregory the great, till the reforms of 1962, you can trace the development of the liturgy in a consistent manner. That is not true of the NO, with much of its text being fabricated whole cloth, (ie. EP II) others being pulled from non-Christian sources and shoehorned into the liturgy (the offertory prayers) Eastern Traditions that have never existed in the west bring drug into out liturgy (the epiclesis), the destruction of the lectionary, (yeah you hear more scripture, but many key passages are either omitted entirely or relegated to obscure weekday masses, such as pauls admonition to the corinthians to not partake of the body and blood of our lord unworthily which is entirely absent from the lectionary) If this amount of change and discarding of anything that came before isn't a rupture, I don't know what is. What happened after the second Vatican council robbed the western church of her patrimony and along with it her identity. In its place were left "pastors" doing whatever they wanted because there was no precedent, no tradition, no framework for anyone to work with so they just made it up as they went along. The Western Church was cut off from its roots and not the tree has begun to wither. There are shoots of green where younger generations have rediscovered the Tradition and therefore the roots, but that is a small minority. What I'm saying is true, you just have to look. Only once we acknowledge the issue can we begin to fix it.
@MsDormy Жыл бұрын
I don’t think we are so far away from a renewal of reverence and true adoration in our church. I believe there is a new generation of devout young priests who love God with their whole hearts. I have met two already, and I live in a small sparsely populated region… Our Lord is nurturing His church. ❤️🙏❤️
@stevensonrf2 жыл бұрын
The Roman Cannon is still there in the Novus ordo. As a priest, I try to say it on most Sundays and holy days. It is true that many priests, because of time, refer back to the second Eucharistic prayer. But I think that many of us recognize the beauty in the first Eucharistic prayer i.e. the Roman Canon and are striving to preserve it even in the Novus ordo.
@simonewilliams7224 Жыл бұрын
No it’s not, do your research into the wording, it’s confused and corrupted. Break it down for yourself and you will see it, God will reveal it to you if you quiet the modernisms that have taken hold of you.
@stevensonrf Жыл бұрын
@@simonewilliams7224 I think you were confusing the Roman Canon with the liturgy of the mass? They are two different things. The Roman Canon is the Eucharistic prayer that takes place within the mass. You are correct in saying that there were alterations in the liturgy itself but the Roman canon, it is still pretty much, Word for Word, the same one you would find in the traditional Latin mass. With a few minor alterations.
@JudeMalachi9 ай бұрын
In the last ten years, I’ve only heard the Roman cannon said once in the New rite. I wish it was mandated for use on all solemnities.
@paddyearly2 жыл бұрын
The thing about it is that if the ones who truly believed had stood by the truth of God traitors could not have succeeded😭 For evil to triumph it needs good men to stand idly by and allow it to happen because they lack faith and courage😭
@bohmao2 жыл бұрын
There is a video here on KZfaq where the old latin mass is compared to the Novus Ordo mass line by line. It seems that everything that a protestant would object to was removed so what we ended up with was almost identical to a protestant service. I remember turning on the TV some years ago and watching what I thought was the middle of a catholic mass but as it progressed I noticed a few anomolies and it was only towards the end that I realised that it was actually a protestant service.
@domfecit2 жыл бұрын
Thank you kind sir for all your work! Just subbed today, really thankful that Devine Providence and the YT algorithm introduced us. I can’t wait to watch you and your sons Camino series. Your channel has exploded today great work, Ave Maria!
@thecatholicman2 жыл бұрын
Welcome aboard!
@artifexdei36712 жыл бұрын
bugnini messed everything up
@kyrieeleison12432 жыл бұрын
They actually changed the Canon quite a bit. The idea that the Canon was untouched is a myth. The very Words of institution, which are the form of the Sacrament, are different in the Novus Ordo. The rubrics of the Canon are very different, having excised most of the signs of the cross that were made over the bread and wine, as well as the instruction that the priest is to lay his arms on the altar as he says the words of institution and hence offer himself in sacrifice, as well as the many genuflections, as well as the secret voice he was supposed to pray it in. The mystery of faith responsory was added smack bang in the middle of the Canon, totally interrupting its flow… Much violence was done to the Roman Canon.
@thunderthumbz3293 Жыл бұрын
THIS IS FALSE. Compare the Roman canon in the TLM to the Eucharist Prayer I in the NO it is verbatim the same just in a different language. Some trads keep spreading errors.
@Drummarforhire Жыл бұрын
@@thunderthumbz3293 No, the words are mostly the same, although they changed the consecration of the wine by moving the "Mysterium Fidei" to after the concentration as the "memorial acclimation", but the rubrics such as the signs of the cross, the postures of the priest, and the tone in which it is to be spoken were all drastically changed. Please don't immediately assume ill will for someone in the Traditional movement. We have our issues that need to be dealt with that's for sure, but our concerns are legitimate and shouldn't be summarily dismissed as they too often are.
@thunderthumbz3293 Жыл бұрын
@@Drummarforhire Maybe you are referring to the instructions of the missal. The original poster is incorrect and it is important to call out traditionalist error. If your read the Roman canon and Eucharistic Prayer I in the NO they are verbatim. Furthermore the Church has long held the disciplinary aspects of the liturgy which is basically everything that you brought up can and has been changed throughout history. There is a distinction that many traditionalists fail to grasp and that the substance of the sacrament and discipline are different. Only the substance of the sacrament is divinely instituted and can not be altered.
@bjfitz52 жыл бұрын
Thank you for that beautiful example. Could you ask the author given the fact that the changes were radical and most probably Masonic, how did these changes eventually become accepted by clergy who presumably loved the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?
@nmfd722 жыл бұрын
We didn't destroy anything, Satan, acting through these evil men destroyed the Mass
@coraleebaker6422 жыл бұрын
You allowed it - samo, samo! I was a convert, Pentecost Sunday, 1958, whenever I said “this isn’t right” I was met with: Are YOU more Catholic than the Pope? At Confirmation I became a Soldier of Christ! I had five children in seven years. When they were older & I had some time apart from them, I became a voice for the unborn & a voice against the destruction of the Church! By this time, most Catholics had gone belly up & loved being what I had left: being a prot!!! Follow your conscience from the priest in the Confessional was all they needed to hear - that’s exactly how prots live! They have no One, True Church, but, a myriad of beliefs & will find a church that accommodates their desires - now, catholics do the same. And, God punishes us by letting us swim in this cesspool of sin!!! Our Lady of LaSallette prophesied that ROME WOULD LOSE THE FAITH!!! ( I believe her )
@nmfd722 жыл бұрын
@@coraleebaker642 I agree, Rome lost the faith after Vatican II k
@veredictum45032 жыл бұрын
My first time here so I'm not sure if you've covered this in the past. But Bugnini himself was a Freemason, and his "committee" revising the Mass was 1 Catholic priest (presumably uber-liberal too) and 6 Protestants. Presumably not "prosperity gospel" level of depravity, but still Protestants. Which by definition means that all the wording of the original Roman Canon, would sound either wrong or "useless" to their ears. And so results a hybrid of sorts - as the joke goes "a camel is a horse designed by a committee" (though in reality a camel is God's design for a desert environment - but the joke is about the strange shape).
@Jacob-hr2vf2 жыл бұрын
Ironically in the Maronite Church we still have an anaphora on the books called the Anaphora of the Roman Church that consists of the Anaphora of the Twelve Apostles, with the Roman Canon from the Tridentine liturgy sandwiched in place of the Eucharistic Prayer, before the epiclesis. Thankfully it’s not the standard anymore after the delatinization of the Holy Qurbono, though.
@henryvonblumenthal73079 ай бұрын
Gresham’s law stated that “bad money drives out good “. They were hoping that “bad liturgy drives out good.””, which seems to apply when only the Novus Ordo is available but not when the Vetus Ordo is an option
@stevenstevenson63432 жыл бұрын
PS..I wonder if you might please do a short video some time on how to more fruitfully spend the time of thanksgiving after receiving the Holy Eucharist...
@arthurkearney6193 Жыл бұрын
Marvellous music and pictures. Goodness it is hard to credit the destruction of this beauty.
@boanerges5262 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video. Have you noticed that in the First Eucharistic Prayer, during the Epiclesis, the Holy Spirit is not mentioned by name? When I questioned my pastor about this anomaly, he said that the Holy Spirit was “inferred“. This omission was certainly not part of the original Roman Canon, right?
@kyrieeleison12432 жыл бұрын
Yes, the Holy Spirit was never mentioned there. In fact what is now referred to as the epiclesis was not considered the epiclesis in the old Mass. Previously the priest extended his hands over the gifts at the hanc igitur. Epiclesis is more of an Eastern Church element, in the Latin Church, the consecration happens through the Words of Institution.
@singingwithjessiewalsh40452 жыл бұрын
Funny you say about the children’s canon , last week at our granddaughters first holy communion, the priest said about Jesus friends, my son Who is unfortunately a non-practising Catholic asked me what was going on why Jesus now have friends instead of disciples
@thecatholicman2 жыл бұрын
We infantilise the faith so much it becomes unrecognisable
@hawthorne15042 жыл бұрын
Just a thought, 🤔Hand copied and so beautifully illustrated prayers and scripture, contrasts with our distracted and cheap access of information from the internet, devoid of effort, so quickly reproduced and accessed, I wonder if there’s merit to writing out scripture and prayers in longhand?
@stevenstevenson63432 жыл бұрын
I heard quite recently that approximately 80% of the content of the TLM was removed when they switched to the Novus Ordo. Please correct me if I've got that wrong. If true, how many of the faithful realise this, I wonder.
@carolynkimberly40212 жыл бұрын
It's true. Most of the faithful are clueless. They aren't invested enough in the Faith to research it.
@1907jdee2 жыл бұрын
I believe somewhere around 14% of the prayers were left intact....all changed or removed. Not including the other sacraments.
@asaxr Жыл бұрын
Robert, you are the master of walking the fine line. I love it. You never have to be straight about it because I get it. Lol. Thank you.
@notsoserious094410 ай бұрын
The entire missal in all of it's vernacular languages is literally thousands of different rites. None of them matching each other nor the Bugnini rite promulgated in Latin.
@thunderthumbz32932 жыл бұрын
The Roman canon is not destroyed in the novus ordo. It is literally there verbatim as Eucharist prayer I. All a priest has to do it is use it in practice. In the states many of them do, so its the primary canon of the novus ordo in practice at least in the U.S. from what I've seen.
@briandelaney9710 Жыл бұрын
Very rarely said in practice
@makethisgowhoosh2 жыл бұрын
Can you ask in the interview about the prayer "Veni, Sanctificator"? How did they justify doing away with the prayer to God the Sanctifier to bless the sacrifice?
@singingwithjessiewalsh40452 жыл бұрын
Robert your Crucifix is beautiful if you would mind could you tell me where I could get on for my son he’s been looking for one . Many thanks 🙏🏻
@thecatholicman2 жыл бұрын
Some Orthodox nuns were selling them for their orphanage and I bought it.
@singingwithjessiewalsh40452 жыл бұрын
Are the nuns in Ireland
@caedanjennings2 жыл бұрын
Heya question about how Pope Was do snowed by this bugnini and why was he still canonized?
@ianmaccann80422 жыл бұрын
Infiltration
@briandelaney97102 жыл бұрын
He destroyed the Offertory
@mjmayo9702 жыл бұрын
Is their anyone I can pm to start going to a "proper" mass and have confession especially, I need to get myself in order, thank you.
@thecatholicman2 жыл бұрын
Sure contact me ranugent@icloud.com I can put you in touch with some good Priests.
@mrtactica2 жыл бұрын
1. Bugnini changed and/or destroyed nothing. The real Roman canon was untouched and is still used by the faithful in the true Catholic Church. 2. Francis is NOT a pope. 3. The Novus Ordo in any language is mostly invalid because one of the necessary elements is missing including the (sad) fact that there are almost no valid priests in the new church. 4. The Novus Ordo said 'beautifully and in Latin' is still offensive to God and is at least idolatrous. 5. The Church has one Faith and one Baptism thus the new church is not the true Church.
@briandelaney97102 жыл бұрын
Explain how it is idolatrous. Remember that the Protestants were infamous for calling the Old Mass “idolatrous “ so be careful with the language you use
@Drummarforhire Жыл бұрын
@@briandelaney9710 The sede's aren't Catholic but still pretend to be and end up giving the traditional movement a bad name.