To me, this man is 1000 times more helpful than all of those audio experts with expensive equipment that are out there. Yes, I don´t blame them for they have, yes that´s awesome you pretty superior and amazing set up, but a lot of people are interested in smart, not sleazy guidance in buying the product for reasonable prize when began doing this hobby. Myself being a beginner to stereo set - up, whole technology about vinyl spinning, and this man helped and saved me a lot of money!

When this video covered belts and RPMs, all i could think was "You spin me right round baby. right round. Like a record baby right round, round, round"

The saying is an audiophile spends money to listen to the perfect sound, whereas an audio fan spends money to get loads of good music to listen to.

Well said! A breath of fresh air! Thank you. I’m just a average guy and on a fixed income! I spent 500.00 for a Fluance RT85. I love this turntable. My amp cost me 170.00 and my speakers were 400.00. I’m happy. I will bet that the audiophiles are going crazy over your video. I applaud you and thank you. Keep up your videos.

Thanks for the shaving advice. I tried it today and my stubble has a much richer and deeper bass.

How refreshing, someone who understands the concept of diminishing returns and that the world does not revolve around the mighty dollar.

Thank you sir! It’s a breath of fresh air listening to you. The word practical has been lost in our present day world. My turntable is a JVC JL-40. I’ve had it since new. It’s a great turntable. Back in the 70s when I bought it, it was I guess a mid level unit. It works for me. Has never let me down, and sounds great. I’m 72 years old now. My hearing is not what it was when I was in my 20s when I purchased the JVC. No reason to replace it. Even though I’ve thought about it. No, I think I’m going to go for a new cartridge. Thanks for your practical approach to hi fi. Keep up the good work.

Having my Rega P3 played with a cartidge I was auditioining, and then hearing that same cartridge played on a Linn LP12, convinced me that tables not only sound different from each other, but some sound markedly better. If I could have afforded it I would have taken the Linn home with me. I still have the Rega, thirty eight years later, because it's a table that sounds good enough to enjoy music with, but I have no doubt that there are many tables that can outperform mine.

You made me laugh so much.. I'm with you when it comes to majority of today adding extra nonsense to something so pure and simple when setup correctly. . This video was a pleasure to watch and listen to all the way through. Thank you.

That's not a rant, that's just thoughtful and sensible. It all boils down to what you enjoy and how you do it. Some people want to buy bragging rights with super expensive audio/brewing equipment? Fine for them. I'll enjoy my own setups, humble though they may be. ("Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew" is a great motto to live by!) All the best from the Netherlands, John

Only recently I discovered your videos and a have to say I am hugely impressed. Not only is the advice and guidance you provide refreshingly simple to follow and honestly presented, your presentation skills are a fresh approach compared to most of the you tube videos I have watched. Your attention to detail in terms of lighting and audio recording is streets ahead of most others. I often turn to you tube for guidance on my hobbies and more often than not find the presentations are so hard to hear and see I end up turning them off with frustration. Please continue to cover all aspects of the vinyl world as they are both entertaining and helpful. I have just started to renew my interest in vinyl and am about to purchase new products from turntable to speakers and amplifiers and your guidance will give me greater confidence when making my choice. Many, many thanks and good wishes,

One massive thumbs up to you! So true! You could waste so much money for minimal audio gain. If an Audiophile could pay for a band to play live in their living room, they would still say “ oh, if only I had blue curtains it would sound better”! Well done for making the vid that says exactly what I have felt for so long!👍

This video is just a good reality check. Around 3 years ago or so my sister had gifted me one of those crosley cruiser things. Obvious points aside, I knew that there was better out there. Now being a student, money must be allocated elsewhere, but I remember reading up as much as I possibly could on what this crazy record collecting world offered. The following summer I came across a teac-300 in my searches. Naturally, this is not necessarily an "audiophile" deck but damn the thing is gorgeous. I fell in love with it. Most of that summer was spent saving remainders of my paychecks for it. When that package arrived at my door it was like I was 6 years old on Christmas morning again. I still use that deck nearly daily. Although I have since replaced the cartridge a year later. It's quiet and the speed is stable to my ears. It's does what it is supposed to do; play records and add some color to an otherwise greyscale color palette on the days I require its service. This hobby is meant to bring joy; not elitist snobbery because some have the money to throw around

Thanks for making me feel good about my modest setup.

Metal platters do need to be damped. What you have to bear in mind that your hearing a 'dead' platter is not helpful. The vibrations come from the ambiance (and sound) of the room, the bearing, the reflected vibrations originating from the stylus in the groove. A moving coil signal is magnified up to 10,000 times. This will result in a coloration of the sound. You can do a lot of upgrade for very cheap. Maglev feet, good mat. Also effort in good setup and clean records are a free upgrade. Agree about the tonearm. I bought an Origin Live Encounter tonearm for my Technics. It cost about 3 grand. It was useless and sounded no better than the stock Technics arm.

There's always gains to be had in such a mechanical system that come with advances etc in engineering. It's an incredibly simple concept but not being able to afford a fancy thing doesn't mean there's not value in a fancy thing to the person who finds it to be a benefit to their sound. As we all know, advances in build/engineering/price get into the sphere of demising returns, but there's nothing wrong with deciding your own place on that ascending ladders of price to performance. As mentioned, it's an incredibly fine device reading the incredibly fine vibrations in a spinning disc and turning them into incredibly fine voltages amplified many times to make music happen. Little things matter. A transformer vibrating away, a bearings smoothness, the ability for a tonearm to present a cartridge such that the needle can be presented at the right geometry relative to the tiny wiggles in a groove that represent sound. That little needle has a hell of a job and it's a testament to our age when modestly priced gear can do the job happily. That needle we hate to touch or drop etc has to guide the arm round an entire record and keep itself deep in the groove making wiggles, the poor thing. The chain after the record player, amplifiers, speakers, the room and speaker placement therein, etc etc. Everything matters. IIt's just a case of finding your own place in that accumulation of bits and pieces. Getting into vinyl shouldn't be expensive, but neither should it be capped at whatever price point one person believes is the best anyone could reasonably need. Of course more expensive gear, chosen wisely for the engineering that money pays for, can produce increases in "performance" of a mechanical device like this. That doesn't mean it's essential, nor does it mean it's irrelevant. For a first turntable - Try it at any price, the price you feel you can afford. There's always better (and different) out there, and if you want to strive for it go for it, love the process and journey. If you love the sound out of the first player / cartridge / phono stage you try, then play that sound you love and be happy. There's a place for everyone in the hobby of listening to music.

Leaving the dust cover open when playing makes a difference on my turntable (when playing loud music). If it's down, low notes can make it vibrate and feedback to the cartridge. Static can be very difficult to control in low humidity. I found that cleaning the record on the platter with a grounded carbon-fiber brush helps a lot. Grounding is important! I have a Sony PS-X75 turntable that I bought, I think, in 1982. It has several unique features that gave it noticeably better performance than my previous (pretty good) turntable. It has a computer controlled "Biotracer" arm that responds up to 10 Hz. So, like a camera lens stabilizer, it gets rid of low frequency sounds like people jumping on a wood floor in the room or bumping the cabinet. It tracks warped records flawlessly. It also has a magnetic head under the platter that compares the speed to a quartz clock and adjusts. Here's the problem. The processor chips in these turntables fail at a high rate. They are unobtainium. This may be due to bad caps in the PS. The lubricants dry out and may cause the motors to draw more current. Due to "stuff," I haven't used the table in six years. I need to re-cap and re-lubricate everything in it before I use it. The turntable was not designed to be serviced, so it will be a challenge. If it works, great. If not, I've read that someone replaced the processor with a Teensy++ 2 micro-controller (with lots of time spent programming). Some old gear is worth repairing.

This is a must watch for new LP enthusiasts. Learning sooo much.

i am reviewer from a top UK magazine, and when i put a empty Walkers crisp packet on top of my closed record lid the bass just snaps into focus ohh it's phenomenal.

Bravo bravo, standing ovation!!!!!! I’ve said this for YEARS!! I’ve always said that 95% of the good music coming from a turntable is the Carthage. The the turn table itself!

If these audiophiles ( audio fools) had a shred of honesty they would acknowledge that they are first and foremost aesthetically driven audioists striving for the best looking thing they can create and convincing themselves that the sound must be on a par with the expenditure! Great video that validates all I feel about this hifi industry and the all consuming snake oil jargon ..... I added a cable sheath and rubber trousers to my 1dollar per meter basic audio cable (2m per cable) and it looks great, sounds great and more importantly does it’s job....( if anyone ever asks...I’ll say they cost $100 each and let them marvel )

I was fortunate to live close to a great audio shop in the early 80's. One thing the owner was keen on was recommending gear that offered great bang for the buck. He lent me a Thorens turntable to try out (I had a fairly high end JVC). The difference was considerable and I bought the Thorens. I believe it was around $300; nothing crazy. Then he gave me some great setup tips. All that to say that yes, turntable X can be noticeably better than turntable Y. I always paid attention to the mass of the tonearm because vinyl was always a bit imperfect and the lower mass tracked more reliably. De-coupling the vinyl and tonearm from the room, for my ears, sounded better. However, the arrival of the CD made all of that irrelevant for me. While I thought the sound quality of CD's was only slightly better than my vinyl setup, it was the QUIET that sold me. I also liked how the CD removed the mechanical guesswork and let me just enjoy the music without messing with adjustments and setups all the time. I get a huge chuckle out of these cheapo turntables on the market today. Even in 1980 I wouldn't have let anyone hack up MY vinyl on one of those.

Thanks for all that common sense. There is far too much snake oil in audio. The problem is a lot of KZfaqrs are being paid, or gifted equipment, to spout rubbish. I like your lava lamp.

Thanks a lot Craig! I've finally decided to get back into vinyl after a 30 year hiatus and I consider you a 'one-stop-shop' for helpful and interesting information without getting too persnickety with the audiophilic particulars. This rant as you say (surely somewhat cathartic for you!) may have stopped me from going down that rabbit hole or up that garden path as you suggest! Your channel is indeed a boon to us regular folks who value great sound on a budget. Also loved your video on how to set up my record player properly. Thanks again!!

I recently bought a 40 year old Technics SL3200 from Goodwill for $40. After spending a peaceful afternoon carefully disassembling, cleaning and lubricating it, then replacing the fixed RCA cables with sockets on the back (the cables were all chewed up), and installing a new cartridge, I have a wonderful 'new' turntable that sounds every bit as good as any other turntable I've ever had, and far nicer - to me - than any of the new units I see on sale today for 10 times the price. This thing is solidly built and is ready for another 40 years of service, no pretense needed.

I think you've missed only two things. 1. The cartridge is important, that's where 99.5% of the difference is. With your Fluance, for instance, what is the difference between an RT-82, RT-83, and RT-84? Only the cartridge. 2. Isolation of the turntable. If the thing is put up on a "noisy surface" where it is mechanically coupled to vibrations like footfalls or a motor it will pick up those noises. This is especially true of turntables with a lightweight plinth. I'm guessing a big part of the reason you like your Fluance is that it is made out of a hefty piece of MDF. A turntable that uses a hollow plastic box won't sound as good and I think that can be demonstrated.

I want to thank you very much, I'm looking into buying my first turntable and have been going through so many videos that go overboard into the parts that make up these machines. It has clogged my mind and made me feel that my budget wasn't sufficient enough for this hobby. I knew that there was going to be some diminishing returns, the only problem was the line had been blurred within these videos that pushed for higher end setups. I am more confident in knowing what to look for in a turntable and for that I am grateful.

The centre platter bearing and platter matt can lower the noise floor. This helps the cartridge produce a more 3-dimensional sound. The inertia of a heavy platter can stabilise the wow and flutter. The wow and flutter can make the difference in sound quality. The platters dampening is very important. The little differences add to the best sound you can have.

Love this. The best anti-snake oil video I have ever seen! I'm an ex studio/audio engineer and life long (52 at the time of writing) audio freak and the amount of nonsense regarding sound quality I have heard is frankly amazing. As Greg says: think it through!

I tested my turntable by playing a record on it, it sounded good so it's good.

HI Craig. Thank you for taking time to make these videos. You've really put things into perspective and have put my mind to ease.

You are a breath of fresh air and very down to earth. I think you are one of the few people online who understands something about hi-fi and the point of listening to music.

Because I was a film photographer, I often compare TTs to cameras when explaining them to newbies. The camera body is basically there to hold together the two important components that will make a difference in you final image: the lens and the film. A TT is similar in that the two main components are the vinyl and the cartridge; the TT itself holds the two together. You can also compare rpms and shutter speeds. If you shutter speeds vary with every photo you shoot, you can never know what results you will get; if your rpms vary during playback, it can get very annoying. That said, I agree with most of what you said and I believe you only forgot a couple thing. First, the fact that when you spend 35000 dollars on a tonearm, you WILL hear a difference, whether you do or not, simply because you'd feel like a fool otherwise. And I don't think people who have that kind of cash to throw away like to pass for fools. Second, and unfortunately, you did not mention linear tracking TTs. They make a difference when they are of a certain quality. So maybe they don't fit in your idea of a budget for a TT. I own a Revox which cost me about $200 while I have good quality regular TTs which only cost me $50 to $70... But there's a difference I think most people can hear. Most people who actually listen I mean. To a lot of people, let's be honest, music is nothing more than background noise. Ask your friends when was the last time they sat down and did nothing but listen to an album and you'll understand what I'm saying.

I have to agree with dixielandfarms, as I can agree with your overall point that you don't have to spend a ton of money on any component to get good sound. Craig you are also right that the audiophile community does have its share of snobs, but it is also wrong to draw conclusions about products that you either have not heard or tried due to their expensive prices. These arguments regarding the price of anything can be raised, the price of a home, a car, a by cycle, a motor cycle, a vinyl record, a comic book, it's all relative. The problem with your argument comes down to what it always comes down to and that's money and if or not someone can afford something. Parts of this video is showing your bias/snobbery toward someone that can afford to spend huge amounts of money, which is also wrong. A 35,000 tonearm is not your reality or mine, but for someone else it is and there is nothing wrong with that. None of us can spend what is in someone else's pockets. Never ever be jealous of anyone's debt and enjoy what you can afford and more importantly be happy with what you have. There are vinyl records that cost thousands, and to some it's worth it and to others it's not. A Brand new Harley Davidson motorcycle isn't cheap for some, but worth it to others, just like an expensive boat or a million dollar home. Before I say something is snake oil and somethings are, I like to do my own research and I'm blessed enough to have a great audio dealer that I have built a relationship ship with (90 percent of my system is used, but of great quality) so I'm able to try before you buy and I have come across things that were great and some not so great. To give the impression that there is barely a difference between tables isn't true, but those differences aren't as large as manufacturers state either. I don't know if you have ever had or heard a Rega turntable especially an older P3-24, but they tend to play faster, which adds to their prat-pace rhythms an timing, but bass performance is nowhere near as good as a technics 1200. My point is your argument can be made with anything including people and it's a circular argument. What's next amplifiers sound the same, the important point is buy what you can afford and most importantly enjoy the music. Discontentment looks bad on anyone regardless of the size of your wallet and no one should be scolded because of their purchasing decisions. Your sounding like the type of snob that you claim to hate and your videos are usually great. Take a chill pill and don't get worked up about what some one else has because in the end money doesn't buy happiness.

Great video! I couldn't have said it better myself. I am exactly like you. Back in the 70s I bought "higher end" equipment, and enjoyed playing my music. Flash forward 45 years or so to today, and I am getting back into this as a hobby. Wow! It seems that no matter what you look into these days there are the "snobs" and know-it-alls out there ready to rip you for what you have. Record players, cartridges, cars, cameras - you name it. It's crazy. It's as if "they" want to make you feel inadequate for their pleasure. Unfortunately I have let "them" bother me to the point where I have unsubscribed to many of the web sites. Or, I will stay subscribed just to ask questions now and then. There are still folks out there that like to trade ideas or help - and I try to help out when I can= , but too many times the "experts" or folks with mean spirited comments, or people who just throw out wrong answers, will jump in and . . . . Well, you know what I mean. Anyway, keep on playing those records and tapes and enjoying them. :)

Ive always been very happy with my old Trio KD-2055. Its Solid,Heavy and never gets howling.

20:22 I think the significance of the ringing is that if you have a motor, bearing and drive mechanism introducing rumble, some of the frequencies in that rumble might incite the platter to ring, making the rumble even worse. This being a direct-drive turntable, the rumble generated might be so low that the platter will never ring significantly. As for the speed, 35.3333/33.3333 is 106/100 which is about the ratio of one semitone, which nearly everyone would hear. At 33.5/33.3333, the notes might sound a bit off to a trained musician who is in the habit of tuning instruments perfectly, but many people would not hear the difference. The point is that turntables should be viewed in terms of the presence or absence of flaws like wow, flutter, rumble, noise pickup, speed error, etc. If you can't discern any of those things, improving your turntable probably won't make a difference you can hear. So, when I hear people saying a given turntable "sounds great", it's a little like hearing someone say that the drain in their kitchen sink works fantastically; if it's not slow or clogged, how much better can it work? The one exception to that might be the effect of tonearm mass, friction, tracking error, etc. on the sound of a given cartridge. If you take the best cartridge in the world (after arguing over the definition of that), take it out of a state of the art arm and put it in a 1970s BSR changer arm, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would claim to hear the difference; I don't know if I would. It would be a fun experiment, but I won't lose any sleep worrying about it.

I don't know about you, but when I shave in the downstairs bathroom the bass response from my turntable increase dramatically.😉

This is one of my favourite videos on the reality of getting a decent system together. My wife bought me a "decent" turntable as a birthday present. I have never had to replace it. I did add a decent cartridge and a good phono pre-amp stage and now have everything I would want from my setup. I've never stressed about the turntable or the arm as the cartridge and the rest of my system had far more impact on the sound. Well done on this video.

Thank you for this video! I just upgraded my extremely entry level record player with a Fluance RT-80 Turntable (on sale). The only “upgrade” I’ve made was purchasing a $12 rubber mat since static is an issue in my apartment. With that said I did a lot of research to arrive at a Fluance turntable and in the process have seen all of the audiophile videos about everything else I “need” to upgrade which can be overwhelming. Your video brought me back down to earth! I enjoy digging for & playing my records more than shopping for audio equipment. I, like you, am a normal guy who loves music. ❤🎶🎵

Great video with a lot of sensible talk. Keep up the good work

Craig: While I agree with much that you say, and I appreciate your refreshing honesty and the way you debunk certain "audiophile" beliefs, there are some things you've said with which I disagree. As for the turntable coloring the sound, it can and often does. The platter can have resonances that are excited either by the stylus tracking the music, or by vibrations from the motor, or by noise in the room (including the music being reproduced by the speakers, if any). These resonances WILL color the sound. Then there's the bearing. A properly designed and lubricated bearing will make almost no noise, but this is not always the case. Also, a worn thrust bearing (the bearing that holds the weight of the platter, mat, record, and stylus tracking force), or spindle bearing (the bearing or more often, sleeve, that keeps the platter from wobbling) can introduce noise which can be heard on its own or which can excite resonances elsewhere. The tonearm and headshell often have resonances that can color the sound, especially with low-compliance cartridges, which transfer more energy to the tonearm and which also receive energy from the tonearm more readily. The tonearm bearings usually are not a problem unless they are worn or over-tightened, but in some cases they can be loose or out of alignment, and this can cause the cartridge to become misaligned - and as you've correctly noted in other videos, cartridge alignment is absolutely critical. In auto-return (semi-automatic) and fully automatic turntables, the mechanism that causes the return process to start at the end of the record can cause serious distortion because for the last centimeter or so of the record, the movement of the tonearm towards the center of the record is impeded by the auto-return mechanism. This is a major contributing factor to the inner groove distortion you've so rightfully bemoaned. The plinth can often ring like a bell, especially on cheap turntables. And since everything is mounted to the plinth, this is obviously an unacceptable condition. And then of course, there's the dust cover, which SHOULD BE REMOVED WHENEVER PLAYING A RECORD! A dust cover standing up in the air while playing a record is simply a big diaphragm, catching sounds out of the air and transferring them to the plinth and then to the platter, record, and stylus, all while adding its own resonances to the mix. Closing the dust cover helps, but not as much as removing it. With all that said, I still agree that the cartridge and its alignment are perhaps the biggest contributors to a turntable's sound quality, good or bad. OK, there it is. I've had my little say. Now off to work to fix some vintage audio gear! :-)

(disclaimer: I'm an audio noob!) Assuming the motor does vibrate (even if quiet), wouldn't the belt be able to conduct vibration onto the platter? And so a belt made of a material that dampens vibration would further reduce transmission of vibrations onto the platter? Of course if that is true (or potentially true) there is still the question of "is it noticeable? is it relevant? and if yes, is fixing it worth the cost?" I suspect the reason for those "luxurious upgrades" as well as the 33.5 vs 33.3 RPM, is the never ending search for absolute fine tuning and perfection some people enjoy tinkering towards, even when the gains are no longer noticeable for our ears. Where it gets silly is if someone makes such an improvement, ears no difference but will state otherwise xD then it's just sad. So I totally get your points :) for most people a $200 turntable will serve them super well. But I also get those who seek "perfection" at insanely out of portion pricing, perhaps even beyond what they can actually perceive. I mean certain listening room installments are like works of art imo. What I hope will be possible is to buy an upgrade, try it and really listen for improvements, and if I hear no improvements just return it and get my money back :P because ultimately... that's all that matters: does it sound better? and if yes, are you willing to pay X to make it sound that better?

You touched on the two most significant features of any turntable. Speed control is #1. Motor noise is #2. Beginning with speed, you CAN hear speed variations in the playback of a recording IF IF IF you have a very expensive stereo system that has the capability to extract and reveal subtle nuances and intricate details within the recording. I HAVE been to high end stores to test this assertion, and platter SPEED IS AUDIBLE. A high end system that highlights a single pluck on the guitar string, a single strike on a piano key, and/or the momentary alteration of a singer's voice will sound different if you play the song at 33 1/3 and then again at 33 1/2. Of course, you have to be listening with excellent focus to hear the difference in the playback. But, it is there. I am of the mindset that a turntable should have SPEED control. I was born in 1960. I lived through the vinyl era. I owned a basic, mid-level, direct drive, Pioneer turntable, and it had speed control and a strobe light. It had two metal knobs that allowed you to adjust the platter speed either faster or slower, as needed. I used those speed adjustment knobs with every album because albums have different thicknesses and different weights. Having SPEED adjustment capability is a must. Motor noise is the other determining factor when purchasing a turntable. That's pretty basic. Turn it on, if you hear the motor, look elsewhere. Speed adjustment was a basic throw-in feature back in the day when I was listening to vinyl. My basic Pioneer turntable had it. Now, they make that a very expensive add-on feature to every turntable which is pathetic. I am CD only these days, however, if I were to get back into vinyl, I would buy a used turntable on eBay that has speed control. That's how important that feature is in my experience, but I refuse to pay $2000 or more to get a turntable that offers that simple yet important feature. eBay has vintage turntables that cost under $750, and they are superb! In conclusion, I agree with with everything else this fellow said. I think he is spot on about all of these absurd 'snake oil' assertions being made these days with regards to turntables an audible playback. He and I disagree on one feature: speed. In the end, unless you have, or plan to have, a very expensive stereo system, I would air on his recommendation to ignore the speed concern. Great presentation!

There is physics. There are measurements. And then there is voodoo. An example: a rumbling direct drive system will transmit low frequency content into the platter and onto the record which will then be picked up by the stylus, altering the bass performance. Which is why it is crucial to dampen the platter on direct drive turntables. Belt-driven decks suffer less from motor vibrations yet often have substandard wow & flutter in the entry-level range (yes, I am looking at you, Pro-Ject and Rega). Direct drive decks usually shine when it comes to W&F. The cable capacitance between the turntable and the phono stage, along with its terminal capacitance can also influence the sound, especially for MM cartridges. Which is why you usually choose a short cable with as little pF/m as possible. And these won't cost an arm and a leg. At the end of the day, when your half-decent turntable is set up properly with a well-aligned cartridge, standing on a really solid foundation, there isn't much you can invest in periphery to improve the sound. Because from there, it's the cartridge itself, using clean records, a clean stylus and good care.

The day you were born I was already 12 and daily listening to the Beatles Records since I was 8. I played my 2 LP, albums I should say since they are the American "Meet the Beatles" and "The Beatles Second Album" on a Dansette (those who don't know what a Dansette is, please look for demos in KZfaq). My affair with music however started a few years before that, while listening to old 78RPM classic music with both my Grandfather and my great-grandfather. The mono AM radio was a must on Wednesdays cause television was still a few years in the future, not many but at the time it didn't exist for my Family. I ended up inheriting all the sound equipment that existed at my Grandparents home and my own home. I have three vinyl set ups at home and a total of 30 more turntables, 4 open reel recorders, a piano six pairs of Loudspeakers, and so on in what respects phono preamps, preamps, amps valve and solid state from the humble NAD 3020 to a pair of Rotel Michi RHB-10 SE and a pair of BAT VK 60. I've never sold an item but have stopped buying many years ago. I have heard music reproduced in many, many different systems and I can guarantee you that a better system produces a better sound but only up to a certain level. From then on, benefits are not proportional to the costs and it all ends in your capacity as an experimented "listner" and an attentive person. The final result is mainly subjective. Yes I understand what you mean but don't forget that the sum of many small improvements helps you better exploit your system capabilities.

I'm a newbie to Vinyl spinning and love watching his video as I can really learn a lot. Thx for sharing your valuable knowledge.

I absolutely LOVE your contemplative approach to these matters - and who doesn´t like to be humoured by a decent rant? Subscriber from now on!

Very thoughtful and interesting. I replaced the cartridge and stylus on my turntable and did notice a sonic improvement.

@Vinyl TV: Even if I wasn't particularly interested in the subject matter, I'd still love this video because you have an excellent way of cutting through the bullshit. You present your arguments well. I'm clicking the Subscribe button.

What can I say, this video was just what I needed. I am a 22 yo university student that recently got into HI-FI. I talked with a few audiophiles in my town who listened to my stereo and told me to change the cartridge and the turntable. I will certainly change the cartridge due to the fact that it wore out but I will not change the turntable. My PL-400 is fine.

You contradict yourself when you talk about the bearing. A poor quality bearing in the platter can introduce noise / vibrations into the playback system. A low quality bearing on the tonearm / faulty anti skating mechanism can apply pressure on one side of the groove more than the other side which will affect the volume and imaging. However, I'm with you on the price vs performance aspect. And I agree with your bottom line. A decent rig ( not cheap but not top of the line ) will give you great performance. I'm glad that you made this video. Very informative!!!!

People should look at their turntable more like a musical instrument than an audio player. I got a stock lp120 with a vm540ml cartridge, a Schiit Mani preamp and some decent studio monitors. Puts out the best audio I've ever heard. Just keep it on a solid surface and don't bump the damn thing..

All I can say is that you need to try upgrading your belt. I did replace the belt on my Rega P5 from the standard black to the upgraded Rega White Belt which is about £10 in price difference. In other words it’s beer money. The difference was subtle but nevertheless it was there. Likewise furniture does make a difference esp stands for speakers. People will get anal about the “correct” material these stands are made from but provided they provide adequate isolation from room vibrations you’ll hear much tighter rhythms and less sound colouration. The difference is actually quite amazing - and I’d say the same about having a rigid structure for amps, CD players etc... The platter and sub platter are also important. But as long as the platter is reasonably resonant free and heavier at the edges it should be resonant-free enough to provide faithful reproduction. I do applaud the fact that you advocate common sense in Hi-Fi. But there is a happy medium where a turntable retailing at £1500 or $2000 will give satisfyingly more audio fidelity than a £200 one where all the components are manufactured down to a price. It is because manufacturers spend their lifetimes tweaking and designing and tinkering and putting equipment out at ridiculous sums of money that technology eventually trickles down to prices we can afford. I live in a titchy tiny apartment and don’t spend money going on fancy holidays or meals at the finest restaurants. Neither do I have kids to drain financial resources. I’ve chosen to to splurge on Hi-Fi and cameras. My first TT was a vintage late 60’s Goldring Lenco GL75 bought for £70 in 2004. It was exciting and sounded fantastic - better than today’s low-end Regas and Projects I would venture - but there is every difference in the world between that and my Rega RP8 which has the exotic belts, power supplies and motors and in Hi-Fi terms is fairly reasonably priced at roughy £1500. I also think it’s a shame you didn’t mention the one area of vinyl setup where improvements can be made and again the money spent doesn’t have to be ridiculous and that is the stylus. The most basic requirement for faithful reproduction of what is on the record is that it should be a diamond elliptical tip. These can be either cheap or expensive, but it’s not unreasonable to spend about £60-80 for a basic good quality cartridge with a diamond elliptical stylus. Think Ortofon 2m Red, Goldring 1006 or Rega Bias 2. Exotic fine line styli are quieter and fit the shape of the record groove better but if you do have a £250 turntable the price spent is overkill and they’re a pain in the jack to set up and keep clean. A conical or spherical tip belongs in the realm of the Crosleys and GPO’s. Thanks for this video, you’ve given me something to talk about.

I love your channel and your videos. Keep it up sir and stay safe and healthy during this troublesome season

This was a great video. Candidly, I wish I had seen this video before I upgraded my turntable. OTOH, I'm not sure how much of a difference it made. I am in the process of replacing my old system and upgrading everything to include a turntable. EBay provided me an opportunity to acquire a excellent condition Rega P3 with cart and the Neo2 power supply for the price of a P2. I upgraded everything: Delrin platter, aluminum sub platter, belts (dual), counterweight, feet, and cartridge. Did it make a difference? Yes, but the biggest difference came with the cartridge. The Neo and the sub-platter helped. Each stage of the upgrades seemed to add more detail, depth, soundstage, and overall presentation. In the end, I've resolved that the upgrades work as a team. So for slightly more that purchasing it new (turntable and Neo), I've got a turntable that competes well - and sometimes betters my high-end CD transport. Oh, did I mention the phono stage???? ........ I would like to end by saying that, IMHO, scaling your system is important matching components to suit your listening tastes and budget. There's something for everyone.

Before watching, I would say yes. It depends on the Cartridge, tracking, and electronics. And other factors. I will watch and see if I am right. P.S. the good thing about turntables is you can listen to stuff that was never released on CD or mp3. I listen to all formats.

Above about $600 it is definitely the case of diminishing returns for a turntable. I went from an Audio Technica to NAD turntable about a year ago. Switched out my cartridge and did notice a sizable improvement in sound quality. A friend has a $2k Clearaudio table with the same cartridge and honestly didn't hear any major difference. He's happy, I'm happy but there is a heck of a lot of snake oil when it comes to home HiFi. Thanks for the good advice 👍

North American accent (my guess Washington state or possibly Canadian), Kiwi scarf, mostly N. Am. vocabulary, with one or two Kiwi-isms thrown in - where are you from and where are you now? 'Alls I'm saying is' if I at least knew the latter, I'd try to come there and give you a hug (or if you're anti-hugs, a solid handshake) and a massive thank you. I am just starting on my phono-adventure and have a rust-bucket of a TT. I've used auto-electrical terminals (QC housings with spade terminals) inside my amplifier to bypass the 5 pin DIN plugs and a salvaged RCA panel from and old VCR as the females to plug my RCA plugs from my TT. I also DIY'd a banana plug, using nails... I should make a video... Anyway, your view resonated with me, and I appreciate your time and effort spent to get this vital info out there! Thank you.

Nice work it all makes sense.I have had a lot of turntables as I use to repair them.i used to pick up old turntables from local dump most were just thrown out as people got rid of them.now it's very hard to find.but it's still nice to listen to records.love vintage record players.

Audio engineers use scientific tools in order to measure the differences between a $300 turntable and a $10,000 turntable. And no doubt, there's going to be differences. The question is, is your ear a precise laboratory with perfect measurement? NO! If the only tools of measurement we had to use were our ears, $10,000 turntables wouldn't exist, because the ability of human ears to truly decipher differences is actually quite minuscule. Humans don't have great hearing in the grand scheme of things--especially people who have been listening to music at loud levels for many years (I swear, all "audiophiles" are 50+ men with diminishing hearing). Thus, we have the bullshit with "audiophiles." It's not about the music for them. It's essentially a pissing contest of who can engineer or acquire the "best" system. It essentially becomes a never ending quest to satisfy some strange desire of acoustic perfection, whether you can hear it or not. Dude, it's a needle being dragged atop plastic. That's it. That's the medium. If you can't thoroughly enjoy a record unless it's on a $10,000 system, I feel very sorry for you. When I was in high school, I was happy to listen to mixed tapes ripped off of FM radio waves. Me and my friends recorded our music on a crappy 4-track recorder and replayed it on a Dell PC with computer speakers. We had a blast. What this man is saying is that audiophiles are completely wrong when they say you can't get beautifully accurate sound from an inexpensive system. This doesn't mean a Crosley plugged into a portable speaker. We're talking about quality equipment that has been properly set up. I would love to do a blind listening test between my ~$800 system and your system in the same room with same record and see if 10 random "audiophiles" could tell the difference. Luckily for me, they've already done such tests and the results don't look so great. One such study showed that only a tiny percentage of self-described audiophiles gathered in a room using a blind test could even decipher between a CD player and a record player, let alone between two different quality turntables. Vinyl is about the experience of collecting and caring for the medium. It's about the intimacy that one has with an analog format. It's not about an endless pursuit of making sure my TT is has the best metrics according to a lab test. You're missing the point. And just to use a nice metaphor, I'd like for you all to read this story about Tom Petty's quest to reproduce his favorite kind of coffee, which just so happened to be Folgers brewed through an industrial coffee maker at a diner he visited. To him, that was the best coffee he'd ever had. It wasn't fancy. It wasn't special. It was available to anyone who might visit that place and spend the $1.50 for a cup of joe. That same experience can be re-created with a modest turntable setup, and we enjoy them just as much as your $10,000 one. Don't tell us there's a difference, because A) it doesn't matter and B) I guarantee that you wouldn't be able to tell if there was. www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/tom-petty-death-biographer-warren-zanes-731414/

I know you are questioning a lot of things without actually listening to any differences. I appreciate your opinion, but I would honestly say that tone arms can make a huge difference to the sound, I did not believe it would, but my ears were not lying to me. Keep up the good work.

I love the rant, good sensible comments and ways of thinking.I have a vintage Thorens TD160 Mk ll its 46 years old I’ve just replaced the belt which cost me £9 on eBay there were other belts with the word Thorens on them, they were £40, but this is the first belt I’ve had on there that’s perform properly when switching from 33 to 45 without jumping off. A good friend of mine says just enjoy the music. I’m playing the same vinyl on there that I was playing all them years ago and don’t see the point of upgrading as it’s not a format that I use all the time, but I still enjoy listening to my classic vinyl rock albums.

Thank you soooo much for this video. I found myself scoping out a new, more expensive turntable, more expensive amps and speakers- all of which were beyond my means. Your opinion was exactly the Reality Burger I needed for lunch. Again, many thanks from Rockland, Ontario.

So every magazine reviewer just imagines the differences they hear? I will never forget the first time i heard a demonstration of the difference a speaker cable could make. It was amazing. Since then there have been so many attempts to produce the best cables. It may be a case of diminishing returns, but the returns are still there.

I remember how radio stations used to custom tailor their sound with the analogue processing equipment. (Mostly compression, treble and sibilance) Nowadays, the digital sound of everything goes out the same. Receivers, speaker systems and phono cartridges can make the difference. Over focusing on the turntable itself, can be like chasing the end of a rainbow.

Greetings from France. I was going crazy as I'm 57 year old now and because of this age, I needed to get back to past sensations and listen to my old vinyles. My old and modest Garrard is changing of speed every 30 seconds so I decided to buy a modern turn table. I was so disappointed to see that now, turn tables and the marketing arround talks about having USB port, bluetooth, embed equalizer, damned where is Denzel W?? Yes I know this is a pre amp.... Sellers will even sell you an external dedicated pre-amp asking you to shut down the 2 other you already got in your amplifier.... Do this this 'll sounds better believe me I'm a professional. Crazy world I "be" living in! Thank you so much, merci beaucoup, to put important things at their right places. Priority to feelings and sensations. So I just bought a basic Modern Denon and a Ortofon Red, (for less than 350 Euros) and I will hear, feel, and get back in the 80s when I was too lazy to change the face A to B.... Remember this intro? "On your feet on or your knees, here they are the amazing Blue... Oyster Cult..... " 33 1\3 even 34, who cares? Born to be wild on a cheap basic equipment is what I did 43 years ago, let's do it again !

Thank you for this video. I've been using the same Pioneer PL-S30 turntable that my parents got me in the mid-1980's. I have never replaced it. Over the years, three things made a significant improvement in my record listening experience. 1. Figuring out how to adjust the speed. (It ran fast from the factory.) 2. Switching to an Audio-Technica AT-95E cartridge (now with an ATN95EX stylus) 3. Getting a Pro-ject Record Box E phono amp. That's it. I've always adjusted the counterweight correctly. The cartridge is properly aligned. I change the belt every few years. The anti-skate still works. The auto-return still works. I can switch from 33rpm to 45rpm with the touch of a button. Why change?

I bought a U-Turn orbit, and the motor noise was ridiculous. Sent a recorded sample to U-Turn, and they agreed that it was bad, but then said it was in spec, but as a "favor" they replaced the motor anyway, and gave me another belt for my trouble. *IF* the belt was actually the culprit, and a smoother belt would have eliminated the motor whine, I would probably still own that turntable. Instead, I happily gave it away to someone who wouldn't notice it. So I could see a situation where the belt could make a difference, but I didn't test it out myself because I wasn't interested in spending the money on a belt that PROBABLY wouldn't have actually changed anything. Also, there's a very successful youtuber who does Vinyl-oriented videos, who claims that his Deer Leather Mat gives him "punchier bass". That was the last video I ever watched from him...

Still have my DD Hitachi from around 1980. It just never quit. It exceeds the capability of the source. I replace the cartridge with the same quality standard that it came with. I figure that Japanese engineers who designed it, knew how to optimize it. What has been the best upgrade? Cleaned/restored all of my LPs and continuous maintenance after the fact.

I am really serious in the vinyl hobby, but I just can't understand those people who think that a belt upgrade gives more bass. Love your channel, keep on with your great videos!

Hello Greg. I do.not have the words to tell you how delighted I am that someone (apart from myself) has publicly pointed out all these issues! I have been collecting records since I was 12 years old (back in 81) and I have had many TT's since then, some were cheap and then when I understood the mechanics behind a good turntable, I upgraded as I went along (and more money to spend on better equipment) I looked out for all that you mentioned in this video. I completely agree with what you said and I am glad you have what it takes to make such an educational and eye opening feature. Spot on mate, simply spot on. I have argued with fanatics, mainly on social media, on this subject but they keep insisting they are right and that they know best. Yeah.... if they say so. When I posted images of my AT1240, someone said 'not bad for a second choice..' I don't know what he meant by it, but seriously?? Thank you so.much for posting. X

Something important I learned in the late 70s as an avid music listener and a hi-fi dealer was to learn to listen to the source material and not the equipment it's being played on. Audiophiles are too often indoctrinated the opposite way. If you like what you hear on your system then be happy. A Mini will get you from A to B just as a Maybach will.

Honestly you hit the nail right on the head with this video....people are getting ridiculous with all this hype and products that are costing thousands of dollars that dont make a difference..thanks again for making this video!

really appreciate your honest talking..congrats! and thanks for the advise . keep it up!

I'm 70 and I still think Vinyl is Best . Still have My RTR as well . Keep up the good work Stud .

The only thing I will mention is the ATLP120, mine had a noticeable rumble noise from the motor that the stylus did pick up (only barely, but it was there if I listened really hard during quiet parts of songs, but mostly I only heard it between tracks!), I only heard it on HEADPHONES at higher volumes (mostly in the silence between tracks or in very quiet parts of songs) then I would normally listen but there was a slight difference between that turntable and the DENON DP300F belt drive turntable I purchased from Best Buy for $200 (which was less than the ATLP120!) to compare the sounds to. As you mention in your video I had to listen at extreme volumes to notice any difference (and then I heard the rumble only between tracks really during the silence) but I was able to hear a slight difference. I sold the ATLP120 to a friend and he LOVES it, he does not hear the rumble himself mostly because he does not listen on HEADPHONES or at extreme volumes and he does not care much what the silence between tracks is supposed to sound like!

I agree with some things that are said about speed but the platter and plinth do affect the sound. Feedback will get to the stylus. I have just changed a mdf platter to acrylic with a big change in sound. Tighter bass and more stable sound stage. If you don't think this makes a difference listen to a linn. Tonearms also make a difference. A cheap tonearm will not track properly and will add distortion to the transients that you can hear. I agree that the more you spend the differences are minimal. 1% better in a number of areas add up.

Thanks for this video Craig, it makes me smile a couple of times, and i couldn't agree more on you, keep up the good work !

Good advice, my old Pioneer 518 & Technics 1600 mk2 still keep me happy after all these decades.

Bottom line is, if you isolate and lower the resonant frequency of ANY piece of audio equipment, you will improve it's sound. This usually shows up as improved soundstage and depth, better transient response and decay. Or, disposing with the "audiophile" words, it's gonna sound more natural and easier to listen to. When it comes to getting great sound, fundamentals go a long way.

Phono cartridge more significant than TT.

Really, informative and good video about vinyl. Clears so many things, thanks.

one of the best videos ever ;-) thanks so much for humor and validation...way to go!

In 2 years Ill be 50 when I was 20 I bought a Thorns TD 165 second hand. 4 years ago the I replaced the Belt, I replaced it because changing the speed from 33 1/3 to 45 was becoming a pain in the ass It had been like this for about 10 years. The worn out part and the new part did have a impact on the music and it seemed more like placebo effect,. One day I decided to measure the effect and yes for the first time I actually managed to measure it, Not with my test equipment that I would have used in the day but with my computer equipment I use to record my own music, it ended up as a being a wow and flutter that was not relay perceived as something a human could here. There was no frequency response changes measured or over all pitch (speed) issues between the belts. I betting the belt I replaced was the original belt and it only got changed because it was falling off when I was changing the speed using the record speed changing mechanical belt leaver from the 33 1/3 to 45 position.

Somebody once said the perfect tonearm was a combination of infinite mass and zero friction. A phono cartridge generates a signal that is the relative motion of the cartridge body to the needle. The signal gain of 60-ish db - a million times - is enough to amplify to either be heard or to modulate the signal off the recording and thus color the sound. Aluminum resonates differently than carbon fibre. Miniscule perhaps, but in the right circumstance, with the right equipment, audible. If one belt has a rougher finish than another, that noise difference between the two could either mask or modulate the bass in some audible way under the right circumstance for somebody who was in fact listening for such things. Right now I live in a downtown apartment where the acoustics are bad and the city noise level intrusive at times. Hell, half the time I'm lucky if I can tell what song is playing, so those differences are lost. When I move back into a single-family house with a quiet listening room, and proper acoustics, those things emerge. Do they matter? I have had the opportunity to listen to 'record players' on which the owners have spend over 6 figures. And they were breathtaking. Can I get 99% of that for $10,000? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. Is that last percent worth $100,000? Not to me. Is the improvement from a say, $1,000 system to a $10,000 systems worth it? To me, yes. So the philosophical debate of value - is that last 1% worth the effort? That's what wins the Superbowl, the Olympic Gold Medal, the World Series, and sometimes, your life. Few of us have the capacity to find that 1% in most arenas of life. But when you do, the experience is one of a lifetime. And that's what this is all about, the quest - in some area of life - to have that peak experience. For some it's bowling, other golf. Some ski, some scuba, some climb mountains, and some race cars. And some listen to their stereos. Very closely. Don't argue that is doesn't matter to most people that's a d'oh. No activity matters to most people. The question is a little more nuanced and focused. Does it matter for the people who care?

This is great! Keeping it real, and telling it like it is!! I'm trying to learn all about the variables that influence listening to vinyl and I'm finding so many contradictory things out there, much of which doesn't make sense to me. I appreciate this honest perspective.

Case in point: I bought a Technics SL-23 belt drive turntable back in 1976. I have been using it ever since. It's awesome, sounds great and has lasted. I have heard all of this hype about these newer, direct drive turntables that cost 2, 3 or many times more than my SL-23 did. I recently scored a Technics SL1200-MKII a highly revered turntable and which the newest version of it sell for around $1,000.00 - over 7 times the cost of my SL-23. At any rate, I got it up and running and then wondered how my SL-23 sounded compared to this super Technics table. I think most people or all people would be hard pressed to tell the difference, in sound quality, when playing the same record using the same cartridge on these two tables. I feel the same way about my entire sound system; I would put my meager little set up, up against systems that cost 2,3 or way more times than what I spent and have anybody hear a difference in sound quality. They may sound a little different due to this that or the other, but is that difference quality because of the amount of money spent? Or is it just different?

thanks for that healthy clip! only one thing: "theoretically resonance yes it can happen". ever used turtables to dj in a club? yes it can happen big time.

The platter makes a huge difference. So does the platter mat. I've had acrylic platters in the past and I wouldn't even use a platter mat. I'd just clamp the record straight to the platter. Now, I have a Technics 1100a and I use an acrylic mat. It's has better bass, better detail. Some mats muddy the sound. Also, tonearms can make a huge difference. I've been into the hobby for a few years and have had many turntables both vintage and modern. I think the cart and the phono stage are the most important. You can spend a ton or a little and still get great sound. Most of my gear is used. It's important to know which cart and phono stage will work good together. I have a Nagaoka MP150 cart that I just recently bought and it is still breaking in and sounding better and better. I have a Rega Brio-r integrated amplifier, but don't like the built in phono stage. I'm going to be purchasing a Schiit Mani phono stage. They are supposed to pair well with the cart I have. It's important to do research and patience is key. There's a lot of info online about great hi-fi sound without it having to break the bank. Be patient, save money, and you're happy. Again, buying used, you get great bang for your buck!!

Thanks for tackling the elephant in the room!!! I just got back into vinyl and bought a Fluance RT83. I am completely happy with that and my NAD C328! Semper Fi and Can Do OORAH

A belt driven turntable uses a belt that requires a minimum degree of installed stretch to provide enough friction between the motor pulley and turntable platter in order to maintain the correct speed. My experience is that a unit with installed belt stretch will, if allowed to stand unused for an extended period, result in the belt taking on a set and becoming permanently stretched thereby losing its tightness with the platter and motor pulley. The result can be a loss of friction with the belt causing wow and/or flutter. The material used for the belt and its degree of "installed stretch" is a major factor here as is, of course, the elapsed time of nonuse. The best way to avoid this is to remove the belt from a unit that is not intended to be used -- say for a month or more. A direct drive turntable would not be subject to this but I've had this sort of problem with a cassette deck that used rubber belts.

I've been using two decks over the last 30yrs. One is a mint Technics SL-1210 mkll ...the other is an 80's Linn LP12. I recently sold the LP12 and bought the newly designed Technics SL-1200G ... Both use Schiit Mani phono preamps with Nagaoka MP-200 cartridges. To be honest, its the best sounding vinyl replay setup I've had. It sounds incredible ... and I'm very pleased 👍 I would not spend more as that's maxed out for me. I've seen turntables costing over 100k ... Apart from over-engineering we seriously venture into cuckoo land.

With something as microphonic as a turntable, the shelf it’s sitting on a can have a significant impact on how it sounds. shelves will resonate with the music, you really want to minimise that resonance. The fact that different materials and structures have different resonant frequencies can easily account for why two shelves may sound different. My deck just sits on top of an Ikea Kallax unit which is loaded with HIFI kit, vinyl and the unit itself sits on a solid floor, it sounds fine and I feel no need to invest further. In a previous home though, I needed a wall shelf to provide adequate isolation. WRT resonance control and material choices in turntables, everything makes a difference, trust me, my mid level Rega will kick the crap out of the Audio Techica or Fluance models. You get what you pay for, those entry level decks are fine what they cost and they will get you up and running but if you pay more, you will get more. The law of diminishing returns gradually creeps in the more you spend but the super wealthy will pay those crazy prices for the n’th degree of improvement.

I am lucky in the sense that I am part deaf now. About 1963 I used to travel to Birkenhead and buy the latest 45 hits, the equipment they had in the shops were by no means sophisticated but we always enjoyed listening to the records ( comment from England )

Great honesty and extremely helpful. And “great personality!” Thanks for you videos👏

I play all my LPs at 45 speed because I like that chipmunk sound. And I play my 45s at 33 because I like to hear the Monkees sing doom metal.

You tend to minimize material difference and the effect on the vinyl. Arms are mostly about the accuracy in position on the vinyl more than style or type of arm. Some carts like arms that are lighter, and of course the arms being parallel to the record matters. Acrylic touching the record changes the sound (better for some, and worse for others). Never say one turntable can't sound better than another because you aren't being truthful.

I absolutely loved it! ( laughed a lot! 😂 ) Thanks man. 🙏🏻😃

Just found your channel (nearly 4 years after published), great vid very informative. Hello from England.