This should never have been patched. It was the perfect lawful evil creative solution. Mizora would've been impressed that Wyll was canny enough to figure out a loophole.

Great I just discovered this now, as I was about to start my second playthrough as dark urge.... And I wanted a non horned wyll and Karlach, these seemed in line with the character I thought up.

Honestly at this rate, Larian should just make an additional scene for the player trying to use a loophole.

I reloaded a save during Act 3 after patch 5 dropped, and Wyll suddenly had horns, was still wearing the armor Mizora gave him, and Karlach was still in the party. So they retroactively gave him horns. Yeah. This didn’t need to be patched.

It would be cool to have a way to trick the demon only for her trying to seek payback later. Like mabye she would add extra demands in later negotiations or try to trick you back in a similar way.

Thank god I found this video. I was just about to kill Karlach in my Honour when I stopped and decided to see If they patched the loophole.

FAFO'ed for a few hours, no luck getting back the Infernal robes AND Karlach. In the meantime, found an alternative loophole for those who want to avoid Wyll turning into a devil (tested Patch 5 Hotfix#12) : 1. Make sure you have a scroll of Feign Death + Hill Giant Potion + Wyll & Gale in your party 2. Talk to Karlach for the first time and recruit her. Let Karlach & Wyll resolve peacefully in world dialogue or camp rest. 3. At daytime camp, right before Mizora's punishment cutscene, cast Feign Death on a non-Tav party member, then End the day. 4. When Mizora's cutscene plays out, switch to your Feign Death character. Do not play the conversation. 5. Kill Gale and grab his corpse. If you can't put Gale in your inventory, drink the Hill Giant potion. 6. Move closer to Mizora until the radius of Gale's necrotic curse hits her, then move back and forth until her HP is below 10. Use HP potions to regen. 7. Kill or knockout Mizora. Her corpse disappears immediately. Her pickpocket inventory is empty. 8. Long rested, played and reloaded the save, Wyll did not retroactively get transformed into a devil. I feel like it's impossible to get Karlach & Infernal robes at the same time, since you cannot revive an enemy. In order to complete Wyll's bounty, Karlach must die as a permanent enemy (not temporary hostile) or get beheaded.

You know what to do, lads. Time to mod the loophole back in.

Whole point of bargains with supernatural beings is that both sides will try to find any and all loopholes to get an advantage. As I read in one fantasy-series "There is no spirit of the Bargain. Only the Letter". Some of these beings might even respect you more if you outwit them. An agent who is smart is much more preferrable than dumb muscle, because the latter you can find around any street-corner. The real 4th wall-breaking Metaphysical Irony is that IRL Larian and other game-studios are the "supernatural beings", with which we are constant loophole-abusing by cheesing bugs to the fullest.

Nooo Larian it would have been awesome to give that armout to Karlach

You keep calling it a glitch, but it wasn't. It was a Devil's contract, one that we cleverly found a loophole. In the spirit of D&D, that's how smart players/characters would approach ANY creature that likes to make deals but twist the meaning. Mizora's order to Wyll was to kill Karlach, she was killed, nothing in the contract said she couldn't be resurrected, a Devil's game played, a Devil's game beaten. By resurrecting Karlach, once again, it wasn't a glitch, it was outsmarting a Devil, one thing that Baldur's Gate literally delves into multiple times, later again with Mizora, and also with Raphael and Yurgir. Larian was stupid to "patch" this.

I'm starting to suspect that the DM is railroading us.

I don't think they should've patched this out. I wouldve been fine with it if Mizora just gets pissed and then punishes Wyll and/or Karlach for it. Maybe still give Wyll the horns but you keep the robe anyway.

That sucks, because Wylls transformation is my no. 1 reason not to play him, or to take him with me. I always hoped there is a loophole to avoid the transformation.. today I saw your other video, followed by this one. Yay.. 😂

Fun round up! Note on modifying proficiency bonus - Proficiency bonus also applies to saving throws, for player characters and opponents. Pump it up, and spells that use saving throws become much less powerful. Your character can end up passing every skill check, but never managing to land a single crowd control effect.

Soooo.... What you're saying is we need to unite the BG3 community and bombard Larian with complaints until they reverse the patch pertaining to Karlach? 🤣 I've been waiting patiently for BG3 to drop on Xbox with extreme anticipation when I came across your original video about the loophole and I was eager to try it when I finally get this game as I am a loot goblin and want to romance Karlach. This news has really bummed me out 😞 but I will subscribe to this channel and utilise it as my guiding light for my upcoming adventure. So thank you 😋 and I look forward to seeing more.

I don't get patching these types of gameplay loops, like having a shitty DM railroading you

From what I've gathered, this was definitely something that was never meant to be possible. If you do manage to perform this trick, unhorned Wyll and Karlach don't mention or acknowledge one another and any story-specific shared cutscenes they have will never trigger

Some bugs should simply NOT get patched, This is one of them. Take TF2 for example, the Spy was a Glitch, and it became a Key Feature. The glitch to be able to capture the Human Bosses in Pal World was a Glitch, but the Devs acknowledged this and didn't want to patch it, they accidentally did though, and they apologized for it. There has been Several glitches that the community is pissed at Larian for patching, this one is pretty high on the list.

I just found the video with the trick. Started a new playthrough. Beelined to Karlach. And, yep, it's patched. Wyll does notice she's dead, but, Mizora never shows up after you long rest (before recruiting revived Karlach). Quest just stays there.

The worst thing for me is that you can actually use a loophole to save Wyll's father without selling his soul, so it really bad for me not to be able to use this one

It's something I don't like about modern gaming. Changing the game as it was released is a double edged sword, and taking out exploits for a single player game is just petty IMHO.

Im so fucking pissed .. i didnt know this was patched and was using multiple guides on websites to help me do this. Spent fucking hours reloading save after save trying to figure out what the fuck i was doing wrong as im new to this game only to now find out they patched it. I have been really enjoying the opening to this game and roleplaying who i wanna be in the game and i was so excited that there was the ability to screw over the demon. I think its pretty shitty that they removed it

This shouldn't have been patched like this was the perfect loophole in their contract, quite sad this happend.

If you died in honor mode, your run *technically* doesnt end. Itll allow you to continue, but itll convert to just a regular tactitian run. Youll just miss out on the legendary boss abilities and the golden d20/foehammer achieve.

Yeah I dodged this one just because for some reason Wyll glitched out on my game and disappeared from camp nowhere to be found. So I would have killed and rezzed Karlach like I always do (I just think Wyll's horns are ugly) but because Wyll was just gone I just went and rescued Karlach normally. I don't actually use Wyll in my party ever, so no real harm to the playthrough... but I DO use Karlach, and this is my honor mode attempt. So the bug kept me from doing something terrible for no reason.

At least its now possible to recuit minthara for a good campagin so we can have access to all companions

It's not that there is just one save file in honor mode. You also cannot load the save state at all during gameplay. You can only do it from the main menu and the game automatically saves your state when you quit your game. Effectively this means ANY decision you make in honor mode is entirely permanent and you cannot change your mind and reload. No save scumming possible.

Unfortunate but understandable that they fixed this method even though it could be argued that you beat Mizora at her own game. Though it could also be argued that her retroactively punishing Wyll would be a typical devil move since they don't tend to be graceful losers.

What kills me is the robes are also like not that good, it’s just +1 ac and decent effect

We need to riot to bring back a way to get one over on mizora it would be so much better if you do get one over on mizora and when she learns about it she works harder to get back at wyll or something like that

I really hate those horns on Wyll and love Karlach. This is one thing Larian totally screwed up on.

Did anybody try to pick up Karlach’s body and then go to sleep to trigger Mizora’s appreciation scene and the day after drop Karlachs body then revive her from afar not to aggro and then talk to her?

Man... I've somehow managed to avoid spoilers on the ending until now, and I was set to finish the game this weekend, and here one of you straight up commented how Karlach's story ends... I mean, I removed the comment and now they can never comment on this channel again but COME ON!

weird that they patched this and yhet it still possible to recruit Minthara and Halsin at the same time in the weirdly buggy way. It's so clear that you should never be allowed to have them both in the party while this loophole actually feels like something you could do. The whole deal with Pact RP is to figure out loopholes.

Booo…..😢 most of the armor and clothes look terrible… so they take away one of the only good options..I wish they would add skins of armor that actually look good..

So another thing with the patch 5, it seems you can't recruit Minthara if you side with the tieflings after all, I tried everything and now it cràshes

I just tried doing this and it's patched and what's weird is that the inspiration point is still there for reviving her after killing her and now I don't want to because Karlach is the only way to get the best ending for the story

If they were going to patch it, they should have looked at the cleverness of this loophole and worked it into the story itself. I would LOVE to see Mizora show up after you did this and start whining and throwing a tantrum.

It's almost like Larian is just another studio with their own priorities and it's never been about player choice/ingenuity being rewarded. I can respect having some lines in the sand but this feels more like an adversarial DM moment than just "fixing a bug" imo a "fix" would have been to add mechanics around it maybe making it slightly more obscure but in the end the option shouldn't have been removed just because we found it.

It probably wouldn't be impossible to mod it back in.

So the “honour mode” is basically real DnD 😂

How are you my friend long time no speak look at you with 1700 subs congrats 🎉

I just tried it, she resurrected but was still hostile, and after mizora showed up she disappeared

I guess they figure since she can see what's happening at camp all the time and wyl is basically a Camera for her, She can just choose to punish wyl for it when ever she wants. She does not need wyl to fail a mission to give him horns.. She can just mutate wyl at will for no reason.

I never got that part of the contract because she literally says that she will let him out in 6 months for saving her so killing the dad just speeds that up or is she going back on her word with tentacle breaks the contract as that part has already been invoked by her

It doesn’t make sense to patch this, the game is all about choice, and convincing wyll and mizora that Karlach is dead is a choice that can be made. Patching this is now limiting options which is overall going against what they originally intended with the game.

Yeah this was not a glitch at all imo. I mean, according to the developers, it is. But to me it fit right into the game perfectly. You're bound in game to a demon that torments you. Finding a way to stick it to that demon in return was great role play. the response from the demon after wyl tricks her could change, no problem at all there. but to just remove it and to go after it as a priority shows me whoever made this decision has no experience with this game as a dm or player at all. This was a golden opportunity missed by them in my honest opinion. A brain like Matt Mercer's would have immediately embraced this surprise in his game. He would've added a patch to the demon's response maybe. Like give wyl the armor but debuff it as a penalty or something, or don't give it to him at all. Or run with a script of them arguing and zariel shows up to make a judgement call on the loophole.. The players gave you a freebee addition to the story line for free. and you took it away instead of embracing it. awe shameful really. Anyhoo. Thanks for the video.

I can see why they chose to do this since it feels very gamey. It can be reasoned in a evil kind of way, but I don't think Karlach would be very happy once she figures out why she died suddenly even if she was then revived.

How does the community show this outrage, I'm gutted about this

So, whose writing the mod that unpatches this?

It shouldn’t have been patched.

I like when people use the term “creative solutions” to cheat in this game lol. Before you say I don’t understand I’ve played alot of DnD prior and understand that it’s a game of creative solutions, but this isn’t a true game of DnD where the Dm has room to improv and create as you go…This is a video game based out of DnD..As expansive as larian was with BG3 (yes I’ve beat the game) you have to realize the choices are finite..And your choice here is show wyll the error of is way or kill karlach.

i'm just as disappointed in the patching of the Karlach loophole. I wish Larion played into the creativity of this. The contract and Wyll's orders did say kill Karlach but, there wasn't anything said about her staying dead. It would've been a nice bit of irony on Mizora's part that we saw loophole in a devil's contract.

Damn so this is also patched on xbox sx?

I hope they just make it where she learns you con her and then wyil will still be cursed

Nah it’s alright Karlach needs to be with Wyll in Avernus if she decides to go

As someone who goes iron man on the first run of games like this, I think the monosave - even if you use no other part of honour mode - is the best way to do your first run. You get the ending fate and your choices give you, then you get to try all the what ifs of what could have happened if life had gone another way. It's a really exciting experience that reloading every time things don't give your way doesn't really offer.

No, Wyll notices if you go back to camp and talk to him, but then if you go Rez Karlach Mizzora never shows up. 😒😒

Honestly though, it's still a very bad change from a game design perspective because realistically, no one will ever in a million years dust Karlach for robes that is only best in slot for Karlach. The only way this makes sense is to patch out the robe for a basic one with no stats which is something a devil will do considering wyll is gullable anyways.

Couldnt you recruit karlach then send her to camp then find wyll and kill karlach and get the robe and then have withers revive karlach?

Wyll atleast have anything good as questline by killing karlach, or it's The same questline without horns?

This move undermines what the game is. Player choice and thinking through - looking for options. It should have bee upheld as a legitimate choice. Not surprising they patched it though. Many things that are fun get patched in many games. Was hoping for better from Larian. Mizora does recite some of the pact terms and by those terms i could argue her setting Wyll on Karlack. That said i would expect repercussions of some kind had they intended it. Given we can steal our contract and others from Raphael we should be allowed to pull this stunt on Mizora. Eh. An example of why i like disk better. So i can keep the good stuff. ... also why i don't buy early 😒 i tend to see what they do with it over time. Games are meant to be for fun. Dang it Devs, quit being the enemy of fun!

Thank godness, mods on PC exist.

i think you shoude add patch to your other video since i was gonna do it xD

It's good that they patched it. Choices need to matter. Otherwise, what is the point in giving you the choice at all?

I can see them patching it if the reward was good but...ehhh. Not even High spellcasting. Is she supposed to be all knowing or something? I doubt it

Can you use Gale's True Res on Karlach?

thanks for making a follow up

Patching Karlach out spoils replayability. I doubt there are people who will exploit the loophole during their first playthrough. I can have Halsin and Minthara and Karlach in team, but not unhorned Wyll and Karlach? Rubbish. Re-plays are for experiments, not content as such (if the issue is not triggering specific scenes). I will rather drop Wyll out and play with hireling at this point.

Wait... it was patched??? I did this loophole so many times and the last time was not that long ago, in fact, last week I used this loophole!!!

cant blame larian for patching it ,why? they probably gonna make a loophole patch 6 prob they have proven trustworthy and very inteligence .

Any chance modders could revert the change to make it possible again?

Does fein death not work?

I can't believe that they patch it 😢

aw man, I guess Im never getting that Robe :(

I want an option to turn off those stupid dice and have success be measured by a character’s ability alone instead of rng. Divinity 2 is better that way

What's La Rain?

Yeah not worth it anymore ugh that robe would work perfectly good with her ugh why

So dumb they patched it. Especially since it’s something players figured making it you out smarted a devil now it’s patched cool great game. Also all money and bag glitches are patched. Plz focus on crashes instead of players choices of fun

This is a huge L for Larian.

Rip. I tried to do this. Realize they patched it :(

just kill Karlach like me I'm pretty sure you all have more than one playthrough going at once.

😢

Worst thing about this is that Larian made it hard to find this in the patch notes... Meaning they purposefully used underhanded tactics to sweep this under the rug, and the time has come and gone for the outrage mob to demand they change it back.

Sigh, time to unrestart the game

Damn…

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Nah, the Karlach patch makes perfect sense. You're deliberately meta-gaming, knowing that's who it is, knowing what you need to do to get a result, and trying to exploit the mechanics of the game. Like If it wasn't for the limitations of the game itself Mizora would notice Karlach is still alive, strip the robe from Wyll then run him through hell. What players were was more an exploit than actually a "creative solution" since in a narrative with oversight a DM would absolutely pivot with this.

I'm so mad at larian for that this game is so over praised

Glad they patched this. Wast of time having the "difficult" choice to begin with if you can just cheese your way around it 🤷

tbh I see it as a good change, you shouldnt supposed to do it, I never did it but reading and listening how you do it sounds like cheating.

A glitch is a glitch. When its cool and fun - "keep it!", but when its game breaking - "oh no fix asap wtf are you doing!"

I am glad they patched it! This is how this is meant to be... It is a good way to reward players who have a different opinion, or made a different choice than the majority of the players would make...

That’s funny I spent most of the morning trying to do it and it got me looking like maybe I’m doing something wrong so I came checking out videos to find out it was patched😬🫤🤔🤦🏿‍♂️🤤🥺😳