How CPC presses the CF SMC parts

Рет қаралды 3,470

14 күн бұрын

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Пікірлер: 70

@jamesengland7461 12 күн бұрын

Steve, you're overthinking this. It's a large panini press on low heat 😂

@gr8dvd 12 күн бұрын

Hush, this is my therapy to reduce overthinking in MY life… don’t discourage him 😂

@jamesengland7461 12 күн бұрын

@@gr8dvd lol

@ccibinel 12 күн бұрын

4 ton panini press... He isn't wrong hearing it is a lot of power but overall its still a minimal cost per vehicle and vs steel

@ab3000x 12 күн бұрын

This is mashing together two of my interests: efficient vehicles and vinyl records.

@BillMitchell-lm8dg 12 күн бұрын

🙂 Does your license plate say "33RPM"?

@ab3000x 12 күн бұрын

@@BillMitchell-lm8dg nope but that'd be pretty cool

@jewelrycasa 12 күн бұрын

Thanks a bunch for the mention at the beginning of your video Steve 😊. When I saw the CPC process I had to share that video link with you because I knew your channel and analysis could relate it to the Aptera very well. Great job explaining the whole thing.

@DemaGeek 12 күн бұрын

Really good to have more detail of the process, thank you Steve!

@a5-30-31cts 12 күн бұрын

Ditto. Thank you again Steve for this timely and needed perspective as we await production.

@speciesofspaces 12 күн бұрын

Great example why so many say the future is "energy conservation" related as so many processes we ordinarily don't see use huge amounts.

@johntrotter8678 12 күн бұрын

Virtually all engineered materials require surprising amount of energy. Refining. Smelting. Casting. Pressing. At least much of the CMC mold-heating energy gets spread over many parts.

@carlanderson4139 12 күн бұрын

The energy to heat up the die is approximately the energy required to manufacturer 1kg of carbon fiber (100 MJ to 900 MJ). The forming energy cost is very low compared to the material energy cost.

@ronfarnsworth7074 12 күн бұрын

That makes sense for 1st part cycle, but doubt they are cooling it to 25C every cycle.

@aaronburton5188 12 күн бұрын

Yes - that's what I was going to say.

@wineberryred 12 күн бұрын

10,000 KN = about 1,000 tons of force, so it's about 1/6 the force of a standard Giga press that Tesla started making parts for the Model Y.

@gr8dvd 12 күн бұрын

So despite what seemed like high energy consumption, yet another manufacturing efficiency advantage of Aptera’s carbon/fiberglass over metal/aluminum favored by other automakers.

@gup8175 12 күн бұрын

☀ Go Aptera!!!

@chrisbarrett2512 12 күн бұрын

So, therefore the limited part of the production might be the molds. Building more assembly plants, should be the easy part, maybe one in Carlsbad to begin, but Abu Dubai, or in Europe, then one in the Asian market. Can CPC keep up with demand, without more molds? This wonderful material can be duplicated only with the expensive molds or dies. So are the plans to make more molds/dies, for other assembly plants.

@billsmith5960 11 күн бұрын

They will have to make more molds. The cycle time is too slow. Remember, it takes 102 minutes to make an Aptera in Carlsbad. Plus you can't run the machine 24/7 strictly because of staffing and maintenance. Aptera has shown us a video of what they think assembly is, yet nothing on the rest. For example, making the bink or any sub assemblies. In the end, it's not going to be as easy as they tell us.

@BryanDoesCinema 12 күн бұрын

That’s exactly what I thought it would look like. Really cool :)

@lamboman2 12 күн бұрын

It’s a big deal to drag the molds over to the press also, so they have a whole production schedule for each press and production numbers to hit for each mold; preempted by material orders and pre moldings as shown.

@stix2you 12 күн бұрын

Good stuff, very interesting to see the process closer!

@jurepecar9092 12 күн бұрын

Temperatures and heat flow through the mold is actually the secret sauce of this business. Anyone can do molds these days ...

@BryanSeigneur0 10 күн бұрын

Increase volume manufacturing efficiency: everyone watching order not 1 but 10 Apterae! 😁🤑😬

@glennzajic7318 12 күн бұрын

Thank you so much for this video. I tried getting some of this info directly from CA while at Aptera (you have the video in part 2) but he did not get the detail right. I thought the mold had to cycle a little with the temperature (like 20-30 degrees) to allow a firm part to be removed from the mold, but the data sheet at 3:18 dispells that, with a cure time of under 2 minutes at full tempurature. Also I could not understand how a blob of material could find its way to the extremities of the mold in such a short cycle time. This answers those questions as the blob isn't really a blob, more of a preform. It also leads me to more questions, like what do they call the premolded shape (shown at 4:50) and what does it look like, say for the sides of the body.

@bobbygaglione7553 12 күн бұрын

Probably for compatibility with existing tooling in places that compression mold pre-preg carbon. Can't edit my previous comment but there is a picture of the roll on the mitsubishi website (about half way down)

@bobhilder1469 12 күн бұрын

(~5:25) Yea, watt-hours is silly, but correct. Tons (or Newtons) of PRESSURE is not....C'mon Steve!

@markseubert9779 12 күн бұрын

When is production coming

@jeffreydubinsky6718 8 күн бұрын

9 months after someone invests 100mil.

@MrAlziepen 12 күн бұрын

CPC could also just warp in some more Pylons to heat up their presses :)

@ScottOstr 12 күн бұрын

I suggested Tesla using carbon fiber. Someone said they didn't think it was usable for mass production. I disagreed. This video helps with that conversation.

@jamesengland7461 12 күн бұрын

Stamping steel or aluminum is very expensive to tool, but once tooled for very high production volume, you've got a very fast process. It's far faster than this smc press, and the gigacast process is similarly faster.

@gr8dvd 12 күн бұрын

@@jamesengland7461 Faster generally only better when market demand exceeds manufacturing capacity. Aptera’s strategy to distribute smaller, less capital-intensive plants seems smart, especially in contrast to the ‘Detroit model’ of highly centralized, high shipping cost (of finished product).

@jackgreenstalk777 8 күн бұрын

Even if it used 100kwh of energy. The vehicle may last 500k miles. The energy it offsets after 2 recharges from solar offset body stamping cost. Thats quick. Plus they can offset factory energy use with solar, wind, hydro, battery etc

@brandonoliver4626 8 күн бұрын

So its similar to plastic injection molding Places like that do thousands of pieces a day and only change mold after a specified amount of materials made typically in the hundreds of thousands depending on variables.So they don't have to keep reheating the mold to get all the parts they need. Plastic moulding takes higher heat btw.

@resourcemiser101 11 күн бұрын

Still can't tell for sure if the carbon fiber is a resin impregnated sheet or just some kind plastic reinforced with chopped strands...or both?

@unclegeorge7845 12 күн бұрын

Nice video. I started wondering how far we would be if we'd stayed with the original design using composites?

@shrimptopian3392 12 күн бұрын

With Aptera's actually on the road 🤔

@glennzajic7318 12 күн бұрын

@@shrimptopian3392 Yes, but in limited quantities, with limited profit and a limited future.

@shrimptopian3392 12 күн бұрын

@@glennzajic7318 Totally the opposite, they could have grown organically, the fist 100 would have been expensive, the next 200 less expensive With 300 Aptera driving around successfully their chances of getting a real investor would have been very big and they could have setup a bigger volume line, and eventually a high volume line Now they need between 200 and 500 million and they will never get this money

@richardryley3660 12 күн бұрын

That is the point, yes. Aptera realized they could never meet the demand revealed by their pre-orders with honeycomb composite.

@unclegeorge7845 12 күн бұрын

@@glennzajic7318 Perhaps.

@suunraze 12 күн бұрын

1kg(force) = 9.8N or ~10N since that's the force exerted at sea level on a 1kg mass. So that means 10KN = 1 ton (force) So 14,000 kN = 1,400 tons. That is some pretty serious force, on a similar order of magnitude as the famous 6,000-ton Idra "gigapresses"

@EsqMax 12 күн бұрын

55kWh is VERY little energy. Try doing the same calculation with a regular steel based vehicle-remember steel melts at over 1,000C. Now in terms of cost, 55kWh even at $2.00/kWh is only about $100. Even for 20 structural pieces, the energy cost is only $2,000. That’s a totally unrealistic extreme scenario. The point is for a $34,000 vehicle, the actual cost of energy expended will be very low relative to the entire vehicle. Probably a small fraction of any other enclosed two seater.

@rayagreen11 12 күн бұрын

That's what I was thinking. Very little energy for the part produced, even if they only create one. Looks like price per KWH in Italy is approx $ 0.10 (as of March 2024) Only $5.50 per part if you had to fully re-heat each time.

@EsqMax 12 күн бұрын

@@rayagreen11 exactly, even if commercial rates are triple that it’s still negligible

@ericstarmer7779 12 күн бұрын

When they take the moulded part out it appears to be rigid, implying that it is now fairly cold - do they have to somehow cool down the mould before they take the part out ? I have a 3D printer, and I can't get whatever I have printed off the base plate (60 deg. C while printing) until I let it cool down, and if I do manage to get it off, it is quite floppy when at 60C, not like the part in the picture . Maybe the mould is riddled with "tubes" through which heating and cooling liquids flow.....

@wingsounds13 12 күн бұрын

That information was in the page that he showed about the process. They developed the materials and process to not need a cool down. After being cured for 2 minutes at 155C, the part is rigid and can be extracted hot. At this point, the glass transition temperature (Tg) is 160C, meaning that it would have to be heated up to 160C before it could be deformed. I find this point quite interesting - that Tg is 5C higher than the curing temperature.

@tims8603 12 күн бұрын

275F is a warm kitchen oven. Not hot at all

@johnshenton9066 12 күн бұрын

So the aptera is baked? The Ginger bread vehicle!

@tims8603 12 күн бұрын

@@johnshenton9066 More like a waffle.

@christopherbrand5360 12 күн бұрын

14,000kN = 3,136,000lbs. I feel like an enabler now…

@ccibinel 12 күн бұрын

Lol yep. Hilarious to watch Steve try to do math on the video. Better to just add the number when editing.

@ApteraOwnersClub 12 күн бұрын

so true.. i should just add it in editing :) hopefully it was somewhat entertaining to watch me flail :)

@reedjacksonmaccom 12 күн бұрын

OSHA fail on the stooping lift. lol

@namenotshown9277 9 күн бұрын

interesting, but the carbon fibre matrix appears to not have directional fibres, it looks more like a chopped matt and expoxy mix, any info on how they make that black blob? that would be interesting, yes good for mass production. Found this video of a chinese company making a type of cf-smd sheet, would be pretty similar to the black blob aptera uisng, pretty sure, and a little research shows the base material is non-directional cf chopped fibres, which is interesting. Hand laid cf with directional fibres would be thinner and stronger where needed but is slower process, interesting stuff. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pN2bn5mA167DfGw.html

@richardryley3660 12 күн бұрын

Yeah, that's a lot of heat but not as much as it could have been. I've heard that it's that heat that makes CF SMC stronger that the equivalent panel of fiberglass SMC. The material too, of course, bit it's the flow and compression that makes it even stronger. As someone else mentioned, the resin is still curing, so that makes it more fluid as well.

@VedaSay 12 күн бұрын

What is this thing about the energy used to heat? Its a one time heating for one piece of car. Other bit, any idea how much energy each phase of any other vehicle mfg process takes. You will be surprised.

@VedaSay 12 күн бұрын

5:55 no its not a very high temperature. That is the temperature of the flat pan we cook tortilla on! 🙂

@andromedach 12 күн бұрын

I thought Aptera did injection molding for their CF parts and did require placement of any cut sheets or mats.

@wingsounds13 12 күн бұрын

This is one point where the video of this process is different than my understanding of the process for the Aptera parts. They don't use injection as you suggest, but many times it has been described as placing slugs or globs of the CFSMC material in the mold in strategic places and the force of the molding process spreading these slugs out over the entire surface. This video may show an older process, or CPC may use different processes (prepped sheets like this video and slugs as described by Aptera) for different parts. It would seem to me that the slug process would be faster and less labor intensive, thus may be a newer refinement of the process - IF that is how the Aptera parts are done. Placing Aptera part sized pre-mold sheets would seem to me to be a challenging, slow and labor intensive process.

@n.brucenelson5920 12 күн бұрын

No, the original body production process used vacuum resin injection, but that could not scale much beyond 4000 vehicles per year, so they had to change it when many more orders came in.

@shrimptopian3392 12 күн бұрын

Do a video about the Binc being in Carlsbad for more than 5 weeks now and 0 pictures of work being done on it

@n.brucenelson5920 12 күн бұрын

There are zero other manufacturers that give outsiders access to such information, unless they have signed NDAs not to talk about it. If you had experience in the industry you would know this.

@shrimptopian3392 12 күн бұрын

@@n.brucenelson5920 Yes sir No sir

@billsmith5960 12 күн бұрын

@@n.brucenelson5920 - I agree. Aptera is a very non transparent company and needs to keep everything secret. Fitting that wiring harness is the last thing they need to show the competition.

@jewelrycasa 12 күн бұрын

Aptera mentioned that they will be releasing an update video around the middle of May. I bet they are waiting on some final agreements to tell us all about from the Abu Dhabi trip. I smell production starting soon. I bet there will be an update on the Binc(s) as well 😀

@billsmith5960 11 күн бұрын

@@jewelrycasa - It’s the NDA. They can’t show anything about the Aptera until it’s ready for delivery to the customer. If you had any experience in the industry, then this would be obvious.