How I 'FIXED' the Ableton OTT compressor!
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Күн бұрынHelp support me in doing more tutorials and music production live streams by supporting me through one of the links below. Become a Patreon supporter to get access to Patreon-only Discord channels and rewards!
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TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - Intro
0:29 - Clearing up some things
3:40 - How most frequency splitting works
7:57 - How to do a phase accurate frequency split
11:56 - Creating a phase accurate OTT
16:01 - [PR]OTT
20:19 - [PR]OTT Advanced
24:37 - Patreon downloads
27:01 - [PR]OTT vs OTT analysis
32:07 - The issues of [PR]OTT
36:07 - Outro & credits
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This video was made possible by my Patrons! Thanks to everyone listed below:
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@ecklynn 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much, man. I can finally put 6 OTTs on the master channel without worrying anymore! Jokes aside, great video and awesome explanation. I learned a lot and that's a pretty clever trick. Thank you
@borrasca 3 жыл бұрын
EDIT: not ring modulation! Check replies 23:33 Erosion creates noise by ring modulating the input with bandpassed noise. Placed before the highpass that’s on the ”high” band, Erosion can hear the full unfiltered signal with all the low frequencies. So when Erosion is RMing that signal, it creates noise. You can also see this happen if you open MRingModulator, change its rm source from a sine to noise, and then put that Mringmodulator on a low sine wave. When Erosion is after the highpass, it can’t hear the mids or lows anymore, and will only process the highs. However your 808 didn’t have any highs, so you were putting Erosion on silence. That’s why there wasn’t any noise happening, remember Erosion is not a noise generator but a ring modulator, so it needs to be fed audio in order to make noise. Hope this helped
@TheHollowvizards 3 жыл бұрын
You ve been faster than me at replying ahahah. Great job at explaining :D
@artfxdnb 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks that makes sense, I was thinking it must be doing more than just simply adding noise, because then it should also work when highpassed, but now that makes a lot more sense, thanks!
@KnzoVortex 3 жыл бұрын
@@artfxdnb This comment is actually misinformed, as erosion actually does something a little more interesting than simple ring modulation. As can be reada from the Ableton Audio Effect Reference, Erosion achieves it's effect by "modulating a short delay with filtered noise or a sine wave", which results in a similarly noisy but fairly different effect to ring modulation. Ring modulation is a good way to approximate the sound of Erosion as a good ring modulator are fairly easy to find, hence some people might hear this information and believe they do the same thing as Erosion. Just felt the need to clear that up, as it's honestly quite annoying seeing this little piece of Erosion misinformation floating around. Hopefully I can erode at it's existence with this comment.
@au5music 2 жыл бұрын
Erosion is phase modulation!
@borrasca 2 жыл бұрын
@@KnzoVortex True. Fixed my comment
@rwdy6218 3 жыл бұрын
For FL Studio people, skip all of this rack work and just turn on linear phase mode in Maximus. OTTs attack/release settings don't give the same effect when copied directly into Maximus, but by turning the input gain on bands all the way up and adjusting each bands compression graph/shape, similar upward/downward compression to OTT can be achieved with negligible phase shifting.
@bluefire9113 2 жыл бұрын
You'd usually end up with Upward expansion rather than upward compression
@medik7493 3 жыл бұрын
This is awesome, OTT without phase problems. God job Art.
@Slynk 2 жыл бұрын
Hey ARTFX. Thanks for your comment on my Duck Buddy video. I've definitely seen some of your videos before and I like your channel. This video was especially eye opening. Some people are talking about multiband sidechain compression and I think using a similar technique that you use in this video, it is possible to use 3 Duck Buddies in a rack to make a multiband sidechain compression device that avoids phase problems. :)
@artfxdnb 2 жыл бұрын
That might actually work! This method works kinda for OTT, but it does sound different due to how the band splitting works. The main issue being that one low slopes there is a lot of 'bleed' into the other bands, so the mid band will still contain quite some lows and also highs. However this method seems to work perfectly fine with much steeper slopes too and it doesn't color the sound as far as I tested, which means that with steeper filter slopes you also get less bleed. This is how I made the OTT work, since OTT obviously tries to compress up the quiet material by a lot, it had to be a steep slope. Sidechaining on the other hand doesn't alter the tone or timbre of the sound, nor does it heavily affect the sound itself in any way other than just its amplitude. So I think this could work very well for doing multiband sidechain with your new device. I grabbed it this afternoon and will test it out later, see if I get the desired results, but from what I could see in your video it works pretty well. Oh and big up on your channel too man, been a subscriber for a while now. Let me know if you made a multiband version!
@Slynk 2 жыл бұрын
@@artfxdnb HIgh five dude! Talk to you more about it on your Discord server :)
@smeegie181 2 жыл бұрын
This is one of the best edited and informational videos I’ve seen about ableton. Thanks so much
@IBLYS94 3 жыл бұрын
Funny thing is i made a PROTT just after seeing the OTT video of fox stevenson, i did it with pro MB and called it.. well PROTT ^^ It's funny finding your video now :p Well played for the no latency/no linear phased involved technique, didn't know this was possible so thank you buddy
@rhysmop 3 жыл бұрын
You are a beast! Big ups from Australia🤙
@aZeee Жыл бұрын
I used the invisible band splitter max device, instead of eq three, and didn't get any of those wierd problems when analyzing with white noise! :)
@mr.f_dnb 3 жыл бұрын
Always love the content 🙌👍
@korer_mx 3 жыл бұрын
So, the split rack can be use for literaly anything, put FX on individual bands without affect the phase or distort the lows etc etc, you´re a genius!! thanks for sharing the knowledge!!
@levihinsen1917 3 жыл бұрын
This is legendary 🔥🔥🔥
@DurabilityNB 3 жыл бұрын
this is more like science than art :D love it
@joewheelar 3 жыл бұрын
This is the shit I wanna see after a long day's work :D
@RobertCow Жыл бұрын
Thanks! This is actually gold.
@blindcamel6236 Жыл бұрын
This is some genious type shit! how you figured this out is beyond me! thanx!
@rocketpoweredsound4694 2 жыл бұрын
This video is amazing
@butterflybeans 3 жыл бұрын
Holy crap bro this is so cool
@sean_wave 3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant!
@tobinfox 3 жыл бұрын
oooo I look forward to this
@medik7493 3 жыл бұрын
Please make the rest of your tutorials technical like this one
@sixsense6161 3 жыл бұрын
Top marks 👌
@pianoatthirty 3 жыл бұрын
WOWwowwowwow! I was just thinking today "Why doesn't Steve Duda release a linear phase version of OTT and charge people for it?" But hey, this looks like it does the job, and it's for free! THANK YOU!
@collidamusic 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for being @artfxdnb
@gameboyz7497 2 жыл бұрын
great tutorial ty very much ARFEX do you using old abilton 8 compressor ARFEX?
@mmerc808 3 жыл бұрын
OK stupid question but how do you assign a macro of a nested rack to the macro knob of the outermost rack? Like at 18:00 or so you map the high and low crossovers of the LOW SPLIT rack to the macro 2 and the macro 6 of the outermost rack. Clicking the map button or right clicking doesn't let me assign the macro. It only lets me assign macros within its own group.
@yukionesound 2 жыл бұрын
Я настолько люблю твой контент, что нажимаю лайки со всех аккаунтов, что у меня есть, чтобы поддержать тебя. Продолжай!
@JamesonWolffFitness 9 ай бұрын
Very eye opening video thank you! I do have one question about splitters though that I can't seem to understand. When you increase the slope you also increase the gap which creates a notch filter. Do you program the mapping to compensate for this? :\
@Cencyte 2 жыл бұрын
How would you map the frequency cross macros?
@jacobwood8720 2 жыл бұрын
when i go to map the macros, i cant get the cross over values to show, since the mid band contains a seperate rack
@Vlad199697 3 жыл бұрын
if you are so worried about the phase then have to use only linear phase equalizers besides?
@taytaytazermusic2539 10 ай бұрын
at around 18:20... why do you create Hi, Mid, Low chains then create a new chain in the Low chain just to split the low frequency?
@nikku1166 3 жыл бұрын
nice one man. I've been using the phase cancelation trick to make transparent multiband splitters in Ableton for a while now (with EQ 8 though, never though about using EQ3), but your explanation was way better than I've heard others explain it. Plus the final rack you made was sick af! Got a question for you, what do you think is the best most transparent multiband splitter VST? How's the kiloharts multiband stack up?
@artfxdnb 3 жыл бұрын
Well the most transparent would be simply by using linear phase filters to do the frequency split, that would work very well if latency is not a concern (like during a mixdown or mastering stage), but when you are writing your songs that might not be ideal due to the huge latency it adds. That is why people often grab the method that shifts phase, like explained in this video, however if you want it to be phase accurate then using the phase inversion method would be most transparent while also keeping the latency low. You just have to remember that none of these methods are perfect, they all have their own downsides. Regular splitting with just filters alters the phase and often colors the sound. Splitting with phase inversion doesn't color the sound and also doesn't alter the phase (as much) but with the downside of having more 'bleed' between the bands, but that bleed can be controlled by using steeper filter slopes. Finally linear phase splitting would probably sound most transparent, but it also introduces something called 'pre-ringing' which can cause issues and of course it adds a considerable amount of latency. As long as you are aware of these differences, you can choose whatever method should work best for the job.
@nikku1166 3 жыл бұрын
@@artfxdnb nice, good answer. I do use Linear Phase when sound designing bass. like how Joe Ford does it with 2 or 3 instances of Pro-Q in a very high Linear Phase mode... but you are right about latency with that method. I have yet to fully test the multiband plug-in by kiloharts. so far just used it for processing single drum hits a little. phase inversion is nice and latency free.
@fabiokoll2280 2 жыл бұрын
so. i tried, but it only works if i put another EQ Three on the Dry Chain and enable all bands Lo, Mid and Hi. I realy don't know why it works different to yours.. is there a similar oppurtunity to an 4-Band Freq split?! i will just try the next hour :D
@HiddenTechnique 3 жыл бұрын
There is a free m4l device called invisible band splitter. which is 100 % transparent and doesnt mess with the phase ;)
@artfxdnb 3 жыл бұрын
That does the exact same thing as what I did here with stock Qbleton effects, you don't need m4l to do this.
@Sheaf 3 жыл бұрын
Two desirable properties of crossover filters are: 1) The bands sum back to allpass (flat magnitude response) 2) The phase shift is consistent across bands The problem with your approach is that it doesn't satisfy 2). Meaning: if you run a sine wave through this rack, the phase shift in the low band is not equal to the phase shift in the mid band. OTT and other multiband processors don't have this problem because the Butterworth lowpass and highpass have an equivalent phase response. The closer to the crossover frequency the more pronounced this effect will be. Try to run a sine wave near one of the crossover frequencies and slowly turn down the gain on one of the bands. You will hear the amplitude of the sine going up and down because of this phase differential. It could also explain the dip in the spectrum you show later, but I'm not sure about that. Only in the situation where you don't touch the bands will they sum back perfectly, but of course we don't split bands to leave them unaltered.
@alphashokk7998 3 жыл бұрын
So this rack is useless? It will alter the phase anyway?
@Sheaf 3 жыл бұрын
@@alphashokk7998 I wouldn't say it's useless, but it does alter the phase yeah. It's just a different phase response, which might be more useful in some cases, and less useful in other cases. Only when you leave the bands untouched is there no phase shift, because they then sum exactly back to the original. I think this property throws some people off into believing this system is phase neutral. But it's not, and it couldn't possibly be because you're still dealing with IIR filters. Once you start adjusting the bands the phase alteration will become apparent. From a mathematical point of view I'd say the way this messes with the phase is worse than what OTT does because of the inconsistent phase shift across bands. I believe this is also the reason why you don't see multiband processors using this technique, but using the modified Butterworth (Linkwitz-Riley) filters instead. From a creative point of view there is no right or wrong of course.
@alphashokk7998 3 жыл бұрын
@@Sheaf I understand, and yeah i always wondered why developers don't use this method if its supposed to work better. so if I want to split a psytrance bass, leave the sub intact (to phase align with the kick), and distort the top layer, what would be the best way to do it?, this rack maybe? , maybe with another eq plugin? or its better to dont split frequencies and just distort the whole bass? thanks
@pawepanasewicz7679 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Artfx! See 9:15 This MID doesn't sound like a mid freq band filter. See the spectrum if you play solo the MID channel.
@bide7603 3 жыл бұрын
Nice
@Nirossen Жыл бұрын
I dont know why but mine didnt look the same on the graph when it came to the last step around 15:45 it had a slight curve in it. everything is exactly as you did and i watched it like 3 times
@neuroxik 2 жыл бұрын
Does this also happen (phase screw up) with XFer's OTT? Sorry if ever you mentioned it, I watched this a while ago & can't recall
@artfxdnb 2 жыл бұрын
Yes it does.
@Blemji 3 жыл бұрын
My G
@xdvn1290 2 жыл бұрын
Hey thanks for that interesting workaround, I just built the (pr)OTT but I'm stuck with 8 macros, how did you manage to design a 12-macro-knobs device, M4L ?
@xdvn1290 2 жыл бұрын
I just tested on different sound sources, it's strange because my rack outputs a sound with less bass / midbass and more highs than regular simple OTT, the sound is definitely more changed than in your own final comparison, I verified all parameters and seems right... very strange... but the splitter works like a charm, thats a thing in its own, thanks a lot!
@artfxdnb 2 жыл бұрын
To have more than 8 macros you need to update to Ableton Live 11
@xdvn1290 2 жыл бұрын
@@artfxdnb ooh thanks I didn't know, I guess I'll stick to 8 macros thats fair :)
@Iyamcole 3 жыл бұрын
This is going to change how EVERYONE does ott
@civismesecret 2 жыл бұрын
someone know how to achieve this in FL STUDIO ?
@kb420ps 3 жыл бұрын
Great video. I knew that OTT has a way of colorizing the sound. I didn't know exactly why. I guess it's good and it's bad at the same time. Many people love using OTT for what it does to a sound and for how it adds color. I only use OTT for sound design. When I want a phase accurate multiband compressor, I just use Fabfilter Pro MB.
@krta1773 9 ай бұрын
I watched your first video on OTT and also Fox Stevenson's clip aswell that you referenced in the vid, and the main conclusion from yourself and others is that you don't need to worry about phase when sound designing. But at the end of the day, all those crazy phase-ruined sounds do have to end up getting mixed, and isn't that the stage where they are going to cause the same issues for the limiter and everything else regardless? Or am I just overthinking/missing the point of the discussion?
@artfxdnb 9 ай бұрын
Many sounds rely on phasing to begin with, best example a reese bass. Phasing isn't always bad, in a lot of cases it can be desired when designing sounds and thus during this stage I would say tools that affect phase a lot are not a big deal, use them as you want. However, when you start doing the final mix of your track, a lot of your sounds will probably have already taken shape quite a bit. This is when I would not want to introduce phasing, since it throws off the balance of what you already spend a lot of time on creating.
@bluefire9113 2 жыл бұрын
The exact formula of a Butterworth filter Q is 1 divided by square root of 2
@SinanSindicate 3 жыл бұрын
I recognized one thing: when you set the amount of the low band to 0% then your low gain knob isnt doing anything anymore
@artfxdnb 3 жыл бұрын
I'll investigate this tomorrow, thanks for pointing it out. When I fixed it I'll update the racks on Patreon.
@J4n1k1 3 жыл бұрын
This is exactly what i've done last Week ! The Problem is when you Split With 24db/okt you have too many Low Frequency in the middle Band, which is Not what i want for Processing the 3 Bands seperately. ( Play a Low f0 sine and Look at the middle Band, the sine is almost exactly AS loud, maybe 4 Db quieter! However It can make good Results for the ott Split. What you can do , what you cant do With the normal Ott is a dry/wet Makro knob, cause the linear Ott has No Phase Shift when Combine With the dry Signal. ( Amount is No dry/wet)
@artfxdnb 3 жыл бұрын
You can always use this method with 48db/Oct curves if you want the curves to be steeper, the beauty of this method of frequency splitting is that it doesn't color the sound, even when using filter slopes way above 24dB/Oct. Now you say this, I just noticed I left the filter slopes on the original [PR]OTT at 24dB, while in [PR]OTT Advanced I set them to 48db, I'll update the original rack later today and fix that. See at 48 you get less of that bleed into the other bands, thus it will sound a little cleaner.
@J4n1k1 3 жыл бұрын
@@artfxdnb OK i try !
@loonaru1 3 жыл бұрын
Please upload more cities skylines videos!
@raphlesiamusic 3 жыл бұрын
Somehow i still have sub on my mid band after inverting and all
@beckingmusic9637 Жыл бұрын
so I shared this vid in Buunshins Patreon/Discord and the response I got from fellow producers was that people use OTT because of the f*ckery it does to the phase... Im kinda confused about why you would wanna use a liner phase OTT? can someone explain? :)
@artfxdnb Жыл бұрын
The thing I want to make clear is that there's multiple ways of using OTT, if you use it during sound design then nothing wrong with that, which is probably also what people in Buunshin's Discord were referring to. It's when I see people using OTT as a mixing tool and swear by it, that's when the points in my video apply, hugely because of that phase messing that it does. With sound design that is fun, because it can give interesting results when running it through a lot of processing. But when you've already made your sound and it sounds big already, then throwing a tool such as OTT on to just get some extra high frequencies out of it, might not be the best option. The OTT will do the same messing with the phase, just to maybe gain some extra high frequencies in the mix, which could probably also be achieved with some EQ and much less of a change in phase. Finally, this is not the same as linear phase, this method used phase cancellation to do the band splits and therefore does not have the added latency you would get with linear phase, nor does it add pre-ringing. This edited version of OTT would be for people that want to use OTT during the mixdown stage, or to just have another version of a more phase accurate OTT for during sound design. Because it leaves the phase more intact, the end result it produces will be different and might sound better (or worse) given the situation.
@beckingmusic9637 Жыл бұрын
@@artfxdnb thanks a lot for this response! much appreciated :) makes total sense! you're the goat
@Timmsstuff 3 жыл бұрын
Check your mid band with a frequency analyser
@artfxdnb 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, what about it? You are trying to point something out that I already discussed in the video?
@keithmiller597 Жыл бұрын
Hey man I know I'm late to this but idk if you ever null tested the multiband dynamics plugin with the frequency splitting off before, but it definitely still creates phase issues. Try it for yourself. I'm sorry to say but what you show in the video doesn't fix the phase problems that Ableton's multiband causes, even when you turn off frequency splitting on each instance.
@artfxdnb Жыл бұрын
The 'fixed' in the title is between quotes for a reason. Yes I'm aware there will still be phasing between the bands, but this method is a lot more phase accurate than the regular OTT which was the whole point of the rack.
@imjeffvaderofficial 2 жыл бұрын
It's Butterworth, not "Buttersworth".
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