How I Mic Drums For Live Sound - W/ Kenny Aronoff On Drums - Also A Look at the Porter & Davies BC2

Рет қаралды 47,986

Жыл бұрын

Examples and tips on how I mic a drum kit for live drum mixing. Drummer Kenny Aronoff is the drummer here. Microphones used, stands and clips used, overhead and hi-hat mics are all discussed in this video along with a look at the Porter and Davies BC2 Tactile Drum Monitor ( throne shaker ) and the concept of throne shakers in general.
Cable management around the drums, drum mixing tips, etc...
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K & M 210/8 mic stand on Sweetwater Sound:
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K & M 210/9 Mic Stand on Sweetwater Sound:
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K & M 210/9 3 Tier Mic Stand on Sweetwater Sound:
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Porter & Davies BC2 'Throne Shaker' on Sweetwater Sound:
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Sennheiser E604 Drum Mics on Sweetwater Sound:
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Shure Beta 52A Kick Drum Mic on Sweetwater Sound:
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Shure Beta 56A Snare/Tom Mic on Sweetwater Sound:
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Shure Beta 57A Mic on Sweetwater Sound:
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Shure SM81 Condenser Mic on Sweetwater Sound:
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Drum Mic Bundles on Sweetwater Sound:
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Atlas DMS7E Low Profile Round-base Mic Stand on Sweetwater Sound:
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Atlas DMS10E Low Profile Round-base Mic Stand on Sweetwater Sound:
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Shure A56D Drum Mic Rim Mount on Sweetwater Sound:
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LP Claw Drum Mic Mount on Sweetwater Sound:
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Midas M32 on Sweetwater Sound:
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Kenny Aronoff's website:
www.KennyAronoff.com
~~~
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Пікірлер: 117

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

This week's video is a run-thru of my 'go to' mic setup for drums. I talk about the mics, clips/claws, stands, positioning thoughts, etc. Kenny Aronoff was on the deck for this one, and so it offered a great opportunity to do a drum-centric video like this. He also had his throne shaker, a Porter and Davies BC2 with him, so I got to add a look at that for the video as well. As always, likes and subscribes are appreciated. They help to get YT to promote the channel. And sharing of the video links are always appreciated too! Affiliate Links: Drum Mics at Sweetwater: imp.i114863.net/Gj9VB6 Drum Mixing Tutorial Playlist: kzfaq.info/sun/PLWtgwSNlxTjMsX8H1K87UcAP17zYSZqsT 3 Tips for Live Sound Mixing - Live Sound 101: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qquIZbOj3MzMXZs.html Patreon - PDF Tutorials, Behringer channel and scene files, video scripts, etc.: www.patreon.com/AlanHamiltonAudio Facebook: facebook.com/groups/livesoundproduction

@wranglernator Жыл бұрын

Excellent video as always. I use the Porter & Davies both on acoustic and electric drum kit. Sending out of the board from an aux to the BC-2 works amazing. Cleaner signal, and more control of what to send to the throne, such as a little bass guitar, floor tom but mostly kick drum. Best purchase I have made in a long time.

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Very cool! The BC2 is a nice compact solution. Well thought out and packaged.

@RobinHow Жыл бұрын

Hi Alan. I love my sennheiser e901 mic for kicks. It has a directional top end which makes getting the amount of 'click' you want from it easy. Lay it inside the kick. Point it at the batter head for lots of top end (metal etc). Point it at the shell of the drum (90 degrees off from the batter head) and it's warm and wooly. Anywhere in-between gives you increasing amountd of click the further forward it's pointing. So easy to do. I rarely need to eq the kick now. Requires a 5" hole though so I always keep a d112 in my mic box for when the drums are not ported.

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Cool. I don't own a 901 but I've had good results when I've used one.

@donaldrankin7859 Жыл бұрын

Great video... detailed & covers the basics.

@theimagine1 4 ай бұрын

Well, damn these are some of, if not the best tutorials I've seen! Well done. Yes i've been watching for the last 3 hrs. :)

@AlanHamiltonAudio 4 ай бұрын

Thanks!!!

@sharonraizor2839 Жыл бұрын

The drummer in our band uses a small jazz kit, 18" kick, one crash, one ride. He gets a surprising amount of tone out of it, but two overheads would almost touch each other. I have been using one overhead, a KSM141 in omni and am getting great results. Each show I have to experiment a little to get just the right placement. I also use a KSM141 in omni over our percussionist for bongos, congas, hand percussion and timbales, although the timbales don't need much help so I keep it slightly away from them.

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

The KSM41 are great mics. Versatile. And speaking of 1- OH, I probably should've mentioned it in the video, but there are times when maybe the stage and room size dictates no OH"s needed overall... but maybe the ride itself just needs miced.

@donaldrankin7859 Жыл бұрын

I get away w/ an older beta 91 in the kick w/ 1 overhead over my right shoulder pointed @ the snare. Get a lot of favorable comments on this combo. Jazz or honkytonk gigs.

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

@@donaldrankin7859 I've got a new Beta91A and the old SM91. It's funny because when the Beta91 first came out, everyone still wanted the SM91. These days, nobody seems to even remember the SM91... LOL...

@BrianSimmons Жыл бұрын

Having the snare mics on stands makes any band changeovers easier. They will also have a lower chance of getting packed up with the band/drummer's equipment at the end of the night if they are on stands and not attached to the drummer's snare.

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Yip! I mentioned a snare swap in regards to a broken snare head, but your point about also quick band changeovers too is good. Same concept but I didn't think to mention that. And yes, a mic can walk off pretty easily connected to a snare rim. Especially in combat conditions, quick changeovers and all of that. Even if the drummer has no plans to steal the mic, you don't want to have to go to the prep area to search for a missing snare mic that is still attached to the snare. The snare is such a quick grab in a changeover- grab it stand and and all and it get off the stage, that it's easier for the attached snare mic to get missed than about anywhere else on the kit where there is a little more time for you to grab mics. Even if you realize you didn't get the snare mic yet, you're still back to the point of chasing it down. Which can cause other issues taking you away from changeover duties. Good point!

@ToddWCorey1 Жыл бұрын

With 2 overheads, it's a great idea to place them the same distance from the snare (it's loudest and hit often). This eliminates phase issues. And trying a polarity flip on both overheads as mentioned can also help. Alan always has great advice!

@jas_bataille Жыл бұрын

If you want to avoid phase issues then do an XY... period. Why did people stop doing them is beyond me. You *will* run into phase issues with spaced overheads unless they are absolutely pin-point perfectly spaced equally from the snare, front and bottom of the kit, *and* angled at a perfect 90 degrees. Why bother? An XY also saves you a stand, and you can make it go higher or lower to adjust the natural reverb. If you have a lot of space, like an outdoor festival, make it an ORTF. Way huge sound...!!!

@InYourDreams-Andia Жыл бұрын

Great video! I mic my studio kit like this, my fave kick mic is a AKG D12VR, amazing mic!

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

I've not had a chance to try the D12VR. A drummer I worked with used to have an AKGD12E.

@InYourDreams-Andia Жыл бұрын

@@AlanHamiltonAudio whow! .. The 50s vintage model? Pricey. The VR has 3 switchable filters, active or passive. Beast of a mic

@johannjohann6523 6 ай бұрын

Another reason Kenney is also such a recorded drummer, he usually only needs 1 or 2 takes to do a song. Learning how Kenney plays the drums, and handles the business side or recording and playing live is good for any drummer. Kenny is a great role model on how to be a "complete and Professional" drummer.

@lkbakken99 Жыл бұрын

Great video man, really useful! I`ve started to use a mic holder like the K&M 234 for my hihat, mounted to the hihat stand. Any thought about that approach?

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Should work fine. When you're working with your own kit, or your own band's kit, you have a lot more flexibility to do things like that without someone complaining about clamping anything on the hardware. ;)

@ryan_cross Жыл бұрын

Great video mate!! At some gigs, I've also seen crash + ride cymbals etc. mic'd individually, pointing below the cymbal, with a condenser mic. Have you tried this and, if so, what's your advice for mic'ing like this?

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

I've done the under-micing thing. It kind of depends. One thing I like about overheads is the life they add to the snare. Probably especially when not using bottom snare mic, but either way I still like the OH's (if the stage/room can support OH's... if the stage isn't very big then the vocal mics serve as OH's ;) ). So, the under-micing thing (alone) on cymbals kind of loses that. If you do a combination of under-micing and OH's then you need to really pay attention to the polarity and what works because you have mics pointing up and mics pointing down, and at the same things sometimes. And space too. So a lot of mic/sound interactions at play. A lot depends on the drummer too... Sometimes you just need a mic on the ride cymbal, just to make sure it's fitting in the drum mix where you want it, and maybe the OH's don't get you enough ride for one reason or the other. And one of those reasons could be the drummer just not digging into the ride like the crashes or hats. Plus, the hats are almost always mic'ed, so you DO have that control anyway. Or maybe it's a small stage and you don't really need the overheads, but do need a ride mic. So it could be a case of under-micing around the cymbals on the kit, or an under-mic just on a ride... or even just a mic on a ride just like you'd mic the hats, and there still could be OH's too.

@watchman316ly Жыл бұрын

I like the Audix DP elite set- I believe they do a great job!

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Audix makes good stuff.

@johannjohann6523 6 ай бұрын

Kenney Aranoff is one of the most recorded drummers. One reason is his sight reading ability. He usually needs just 15-30 minutes (usually the drive to the studio, with someone driving him naturally) makes a few notes and goes ahead and writes out the parts for the song while listening to the song on the drive. Gets to the studio and is ready to play.

@brianfoster7486 Жыл бұрын

great video - appreciate it. one question ... I thought I read somewhere that the hi-hat mic should be pointed/angled away from the snare/drummer (so as to not pickup unwanted noise from the drums themselves). So, kinda down and away ... toward the outside edge of the hat. No? Matter of preference? Thanks.

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

I tend to point it on the backside, top of the hat, at whatever angle I can make work depending on the rest of the set (space). So the hat becomes a bit of a natural shield between the face of the hat mic and the snare drum. I don't normally put it at the edge of the hat where it catches the clashing of the top and bottom cymbals more than anything. So... about half way between the center of the top cymbal and the outside edge of the cymbal, on the opposite side of the snare drum. Roughly. BUT... loud snares are going to get in the mic. And about all snares are loud snares in pop/rock/country. Some louder than others ;) I'm typically using a HPF on a live hat mic so that means at least a 400Hz HPF. So that filters some meat of the snare out of the hat mic/channel (technically the hat still gets it, but the console is filtering it). That still leaves a lot of crack and snap potentially getting in the snare mic, but there's only so much that can be logistically, so in some ways that bleed just becomes part of the overall drum sound. That said, between the placement, the hat acting like a shield between it and the snare drum, and the HPF (and maybe a bit of further EQ cutting), it's not like the snare dominates the hat mic/channel. But, still, it IS there... There's only so much that can be done. Especially live where you can't tweak and tweak it like in post in a studio and play with DAW plugins and tools. Not that those couldn't work live, but the studio gives you multiple passes to find exactly what works for a particular drummer on a particular song. And even then... for most things, that's probably not happening anyway.

@TalentLe8159 Жыл бұрын

For what I like when micing drums is Audix D6 for kick, for snares I like a SM57 2 of them for top and bottom, E604 for toms, hi hat and stereo over heads SM81

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

I need to get an Audix D6. I like those too.

@TalentLe8159 Жыл бұрын

And E609 for mixing guitar amps and a E945 for talkback

@TheRealBKSchyster Жыл бұрын

Great video Alan!!!! Very informative for upcoming engineers!!!! I do like your choices for drum micing, albeit as a drummer and engineer, I am a bit partial to Audix "D" series mics, with the exception of the kick, I am still old school on that... a "AKG D112!" And if I can, "EV RE-20's" on the floor toms at or over 18" and even some 16" floor toms, depending on the drum characteristics and manufacturer! ANYWAY, KEEP ON KEEPING ON BROTHER ENGINEER!!!!!!!!!! PEACE !!!!!!!!!!🤘🏼

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Rock on!

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

RE20's are awesome mics. And now that I think about it, I do have 2-AKG D112's.

@goodtimejohnny8972 Жыл бұрын

Granelli labs modified 57 on snare top. AKG D40 on toms. I'll hopefully hit the lottery someday and purchase some earthworks.

@tarkett8529 Жыл бұрын

Beta 52 on kick, sm57 snare top, SE V7X snare bottom, e604’s rack toms, D112 floor toms, Rode M3 hihat, SE 8 oh’s relatively inexpensive, sound good and easy to dial in, seem to all be pretty robust not had a failure yet.

@jas_bataille Жыл бұрын

I met Kenny personally once and he is a complete gentleman. He signed my sticks saying "You Rock!" on them. I was just a kid in college but now I'm about to sign a pretty serious deal with a major label! Kenny even remembered me when I reached out to him on Instagram and gave me good feedback on one one of my video. He is truly the best! I hope to hire him on my first album too! :) Edit : I love the beta 87 (although very expensive!) on the kick. It's a very tight pattern super-cardio and I like to put it literally into the hole and to tape it to the foam/pillow inside the kick drum. It has 0 bleed at all this way! You can hear it on my channel.

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Yes. Very cool guy. He has really set himself up well for working on other people's music/projects. And of course it would be hard to do much better than having Kenny Aronoff playing on your music! :)

@Bluem00n7 Жыл бұрын

great video snare drum mics such a hot topic looking at e604 but so many different opinions lol

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

You got that right! As much as the SM57 has been a standard for years, you can also find people to tell you it sucks. LOL... Honestly, the times I've used an E604 on snare, I've quickly forgotten what mic is up there. It's not like I'm at the console hating the snare sound I'm getting with the mic and wishing I'd put something else there. I just listen, tweak what I think needs tweaked, and move on to the rest of the kit. And I don't notice myself tweaking something vastly differently than I would with an SM57 or B57. While I am sure there are differences with the mics, there are also differences with the snare drums. And beyond that, the way the drummers play. One player's attack and feel will be different from the next. Even on an identically tuned kit. So, without ABing the mics with all other variables staying the same, who's to say if the main difference someone is hearing is the different mic or these other factors? Thanks for watching and commenting! :)

@ToddWCorey1 4 ай бұрын

Love the 604s and, for a few more bucks, 904s

@jonathanarleys Жыл бұрын

Good idea for Subsnake.. Never think about it before on current setup, because my current setups is about 2 meters far away from XR18 (1 Snare, 1 Kick, 2 Toms, 1 OH)... Can I using Behringer SL75C as close snare mic and Behringer C2 as my Overheads? I need your opinion, I'm limited on this price range... Great Video... Thank You...

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Yes to both of those mic types.

@jefflozon8000 Жыл бұрын

Do you ever use right angle mic cables for the toms? I like the low profile look of them.

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

No, but I probably would if I was working with one band and carrying a mic/cable package for them.

@jps_musics Жыл бұрын

Man I wish my local venues had drum mics. It’s always a little discouraging when they don’t mic the kit, and sometimes throws me off a little. If anything I’d just like to accentuate the low end of the bass drum and toms, and the attack of the snare. Just so the audience can ~feel~ it a bit ya know? Can’t always get what we want though 🤷‍♂️ Great video!

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

I'd say I feel what you're saying... but without mics and some low end from the drums it's hard to feel 'em! ;) Thanks for watching and commenting!

@yannyloyer7177 Жыл бұрын

sim to what I use. cool video ! love my bc2 also. kicks ass . I have a matched pair of 414's for ov's

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

AKG 414's Nice! 😍

@DrnkTheWildAir Жыл бұрын

Go Kenny!!!!

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

"Crack, boom, bang!"

@briangray4640 Жыл бұрын

Alan, for singing drummers, do you have any particular recommendations for microphones, mic stands (the K&Ms?), and/or mic placement (e.g., coming in from the left side or over the head from the back)? Thanks, love your videos!

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

This is a tough one. A lot depends on the drummer's preference and comfort. I'd definitely want something heavy duty like a K&M stand if I went with a tripod. And you certainly want it sitting so that one leg matches the direction of the boom to help take the weight. Some people even get some small canvas sandbags that they can put on the base of the stand (draped over the legs). Most drummers tend to have the mic coming from their left. But some have it coming more from their side or front side, and a few have it coming more from their rear a bit. The ones that have it coming from the rear tend to have a gooseneck or small boom attached to the longer boom. This gives them a little more flexibility to move it on the fly, plus clear their shoulder since they can angle the tall boom higher, or the entire stand higher. The ones that have it coming from the side, in my experience, just have the one boom (typically... I'm sure there are probably exceptions). For a round base stand, the Atlas MS20 or the triangular MS25 would be the next place to look. These have heavier bases than normal round base stands, and the tubes are heavier too. imp.i114863.net/XxJzVo These don't have the footprint of a tripod stand, so if space is an issue, might be something to consider. Then just add a boom like the K&M boom to that. And even with the heavier round base or heavy triangle base, you can still add sand bags if you need more weight for counterbalance. Obviously, some of the counterbalance stuff comes into play as to how much you need to pull the boom out, and the weight of the mic. FWIW, I've also seen some drummers using the Shure Beta56A as a vocal mic. It's super-cardioid, so it checks that box for drummers, basically it's the same mic as the B57 or B58, so it can do vocals, and I guess the low profile and flexible design make it handy for drummers to adjust.

@ToddWCorey1 4 ай бұрын

I love using the beta56a for drum vocals! Supercardioid and low profile, plus it sounds great.

@briangray4640 4 ай бұрын

Weird, somehow I missed your response and am just now reading it one year later. I decided that since I drum open-handed (left on hi-hat, right on snare), I just have a pedestal mic stand coming up between my legs with a beta 56a on it. The mic stand is in the center of the triangle formed by my chest and two arms. It works really well!

@arneolson7114 6 ай бұрын

With a lot of cymbals and drums and a low ceiling I am micing concert toms from below and using two akg d225e from behind picking up side cymbals do you suggest a third Overhead to pickup the front cymbals as they don't come through the headphones much... or perhaps and out front overall kit mic I should try being as the snare is already plenty loud. I think I will try that actually....

@arneolson7114 6 ай бұрын

Akg d224e are my overheads actually

@AlanHamiltonAudio 6 ай бұрын

If you're mainly losing something like a ride cymbal(s) you could try just micing the ride(s) more or less like you would a tom (or maybe better said, a hi-hat). Whether it would work best as an above mic or 'undermicing' the cymbal(s) is a different question. You'd just have to experiment. In theory, there'd be less bleed under a cymbal.@@arneolson7114

@petarpavasovic6333 5 күн бұрын

Thank you very much for the valuable info! One question tho, when flipping the polarity on overheads do you do it on each overhead or on both at the same time? I have my overheads stereo linked and flipping the polarity would then mean flipping it on both channels at the same time, right? Thanks!

@AlanHamiltonAudio 5 күн бұрын

Both of them. Give things a listen either way. It might not make enough difference to matter, especially with a high HPF roll-off setting.

@petarpavasovic6333 5 күн бұрын

@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks!

@larrykingrey5647 Жыл бұрын

How to hookup a Sub-N-Up Octaver in kick mic (D112) line to submixer to get rich lows on a 22x14 1969 kick?

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

I've not used one of those. Looks like it's designed for guitar or bass? I think the way I'd try connecting it would be via an insert cable, if you're on a mixer that has inserts.

@dougaltolan3017 Жыл бұрын

I see you aim the high hat mic to the centre, isn't that favoring the "ting" over "tsssht" which is what HH are for?

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Maybe if it was really, really close, but it's loud and the mic isn't lasering in on that single spot. But if it was 'hearing' too much ting I'd move it. But if you're meaning move it to the side and aim it between the cymbals of the hat, then no... I wouldn't put it there.

@jthunderbass1 Жыл бұрын

My drum mic choices are strictly for the sound they give me. When you put a 604 on a snare, what does it sound like?

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

It's SM57'ish... It doesn't have the top of the 57 so probably a little warmer when you factor proximity effect into the equation. Although it's not dull by any stretch. It's not a night and day difference, and especially on a live stage. If you're not A-B'ing them and just throwing and going as time permits, then you're just going to dial in the drum and go. It's not a case where you're fighting the snare mic because it just won't get you where you want to be.

@rickdey5407 9 күн бұрын

Hey Alan I have a problem that maybe you can help me with. In our band I have a pair of RCF Evox 8 with wooden 12” ported subs and I use a Yamaha 1600 watt 18inch center filled subwoofer. I have the sub set at 90 Hrz cross over point. All the instruments are plugged into my Midas mr18 mixer and are going out to the subwoofer and then into the RCF Evox 8’s. I gain stage the kick drum so I’m peaking at -12 to -16 and my snare at -18. My problem is as soon as I bring up the fader volume to hear the snare I hear my top line arrays start to crackle like it’s digital distortion. When I turn down the fader volume it goes away but then I can’t hear the snare very well in the context of the whole kit. I built an eq setting of your snare from one of your videos and the snare sounds great but am I doing something wrong in the gain staging part or in the signal path from the mixer to the sub and to the line arrays. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Rick

@AlanHamiltonAudio 9 күн бұрын

It's kind of tough to say but it sounds like your input gain is conservative enough not to be getting you into trouble. I've worked with the RCF Evox stuff a little, but not anything really demanding (there were no drums). I don't recall the metering on the RCF stuff. Is there a clip and/or limiter light on them? I wonder if you're just hitting them with more signal and expecting more output than they're capable of? So the first thing to make sure of is that you don't see a clip or limiter light flashing (or staying on) when you're putting your drum thru them. Second to that would be that you're not hitting the limit light on your console. I assume you're not because you've probably already looked for that. If you're hitting the clip on the console output, but NOT hitting the clip on the speakers, then it's just a matter of rebalancing the gain structure in the signal chain... turning down at the mixer and turning up on the Evox. I'm assuming you're hearing the distorting from the RCF's and not the extra Yamaha sub. What happens if you remove the sub from the equation? Does that Yamaha sub allow you to pass the signal straight thru or choose DSP? If it's not straight through then I suppose there could be something in the sub settings messing with things downstream from it.

@stephentyler4352 Ай бұрын

Hi Alan. Do you notice any drum shell construction techniques that routinely yield the best results in a mix? If so, what are your preferences to work with, and why? For example solid ply steam bent shells. Or perhaps multi-ply wood shells. Do you prefer brighter sounding drum shells or shells with more resonance and complexity? I know what my preferences are but I don’t have too many professional audio engineers to bounce my ideas off of. I prefer darker tone woods generally such as walnut or beechwood. Cherry is quite nice as well in some instances. I also prefer solid shell drums over anything else. Although I am getting turned on to Noble & Cooley’s alloy classic snares of late. Ludwig makes a phenomenal solid brass snare as well. Correct me if I am wrong here. Guitarists talk about how great gear played by a less skilled player will only serve to highlight their shortcomings. Do you find the same to be true for drummers? Thanks Alan! 🤘🏽

@AlanHamiltonAudio Ай бұрын

It's funny because I can mic and set up a drum mix for a drummer. Then someone else in the band plays that same kit, or they get a guest drummer up, even people that are technically very good themselves... and it never sounds the same. Same drums. Same tuning. Same mics. Same processing. Different drummer = different sound/mix. Dynamics, attack, probably even just the angle and way they hold their sticks... all makes a huge difference. Especially, to the person behind the desk. Maybe not as much to the audience. Although, I'd say in many cases, even then they notice it too. Of course, there's a good chance a few tweaks could rebalance things well enough to keep it from being a distraction. And then a reset when the band drummer switches back in. Now, obviously, if someone is inconsistent in how they play within the dynamics of the material, not confident in their timing, etc... then they're not going to sound good even on good drums (iow: Well-tuned). One thing that always surprises me, though I don't see this as much anymore, but it is older drummers with the drums ultra-muted. 60's and 70's style kits. Front kick head off and just stuffed full of bankets/pillows. Drums that are the opposite of 'resonant'. If their playing is confident and consistent, I can generally get the kit to sound pretty good. Even if onstage their kit sounds dead. I might rather work with that than a more open kit in the hands of a less experienced drummer who maybe hasn't learned to tune the kit, nor play it with confidence. So, long story short, I don't tend to notice the difference in drum materials as much as simply the differences in drummers and their approach to the kit and style. I'm sure I'd notice if the same drummer switched out his brass snare for a wooden marching snare during the gig, but I'm talking comparing the kit of one drummer from a month ago to a different drummer a week ago with an entirely different kit. The drummer makes too big of a difference overall to the drum sound. From tuning to attack and style. So, the piece of hardware that probably makes the biggest difference to a drum sound is the nut on the drum throne! ;)

@stephentyler4352 Ай бұрын

I’m happy to hear you say this. It helps me realize that success is actually within reach for any of us drummers out there. We are in control of how much we practice. We can choose to further our music education. We can practice tuning techniques, stick control exercises, ear training, sight reading, etc. And also work on being a good hang around other professionals who are there to help us look and sound better than we are. Somehow hearing you say that it comes down to the individual drummer makes it feel manageable and attainable. So thank you for that. To be honest, especially in the early years I was all caught up in believing that it came down to the right gear and knowing the right people. I may have been partly right about making connections with the right people. But in terms of gear, it might not be nearly as central to a drummers success. Education matters more and same with being disciplined in a daily practice routine. I appreciate your insights, Alan. Thank you for your time.

@MichaelDionneDrummer Жыл бұрын

For the Sennheiser e604, I find it funny that you pass the cable between the clip and the drum instead of using the actual cable clip specifically made for that 😆

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

LOL... You just can't get good help these days! ;)

@texxhexxmm Жыл бұрын

starclassic Performer japan birch only- around 2004? ;) Got this sark cherry beauty also

@armack95 Жыл бұрын

That was my 1st thought… I’ve got it in blue. Great kit!!

@buddyalbert5808 Жыл бұрын

Did Kenny’s kit have any dampening on the heads?

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

I don't recall. I'm sure it was minimal if there was. I don't remember anything like the little donuts or any of that kind of stuff. Don't recall seeing any tape there or during editing of the video either.

@ReverbAndBeer 9 ай бұрын

What mic do you use for drums without a port on the resonant head? Do you ever mic the beater side? What do you use? So, I got a little story that drummers might like: For the past 10 years I have had the occasional privilege of mic'ing Denny Carmassi's kit. The first time was in a small brick-walled pub, 20ft wide, 120 ft long, 18ft ceilings lined with copper, and he was set up in front of the 10ft x 10ft front window, without curtains. I usually mic'd drums in there just to add gates and compression and to basically drown out the reflections in the room with brute SPL force (I had Meyer speakers flown above). Denny said, "I don't think you need to mic the drums". I said, "Please? Just so I can say I did?" He smiled and said, "Sure". (He is such a nice and humble guy). When Denny hits the snare he doesn't just use his wrist or his arm; he uses every muscle in his upper back to hit it like it's the last time he ever will. And his snare gets a workout - he often plays entire tunes without ever hitting a tom. I mic'd him with a b98 top, no bottom. Midway through the second set he blew out the BOTTOM head of his snare. He instantly reached behind him, expecting another snare to be handed to him, and then realized he wasn't in a stadium, he was in a little brick pub in the Cascades. His wife had to go home and grab another snare. Since then it's been mostly outdoor gigs. He destroyed my beta98 (my fault) and also my BeyerDynamics (that claimed they could withstand hits), so its just a 57 on a stand. For kick I use an Audix D6. He does not have a port on the resonant head so no internal mic (I usually use a b91). I've tried various mic's but I have never been able to translate that "Rock Candy" tone of his drums into the PA. Not that he even needs a PA.

@AlanHamiltonAudio 9 ай бұрын

I've used the B52 for kicks with no holes on the front head before. Not my favorite way to get a modern kick sound, although it works great if a modern kick sound isn't what's called for with the genre. I've probably tried an AKG D112 too, although I can't remember for sure. Apparently, it didn't thrill me enough to remember it... or the opposite- hated it so much I never wanted to try it again! ;) I've mic'ed a kick on the beater side before when more attack was needed than I was getting from the front head and no hole. I'm pretty sure I've just used a couple of options when I've done that... Either an SM57 or a B57. It's been a while and I don't particularly remember one being far superior to the other, but I would THINK the B57 would be the better mic for that situation. Heh, that probably says more about the utilitarian ways the SM57 than anything else. When all else fails, stick an SM57 on it. Or just start with the SM57 and move on! ;)

@IslandDigital Жыл бұрын

Where can I get a copy of that photo of Chester Thompson ?

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

If I'm thinking of the one you're talking about, it's on the Porter & Davies website in the endorsers section.

@IslandDigital Жыл бұрын

@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thank You. Great video !

@keith_hudson Жыл бұрын

I can't imagine a skilled drummer EVER hitting a snare mic that's placed properly.

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Yes, that's the point... place the mic(s) properly. Skilled/experienced drummers should have no problem with a snare mic, or any mic, when placed properly. But the person micing the drums needs to know what proper placement is, and think about the differences in how each different set they come across is set up (placement of toms and cymbals and how the drummer will be coming across the toms for fills and getting to the ride and crash... and woodblocks... cowbells... hat... etc.). And a little bit of pre-emptive measures taken when they are doing a gig and have a warning that the drummer might not be all that experienced... All depending on the scope of gigs someone is doing, or doing at this point in their journey, of course.

@keith_hudson Жыл бұрын

@@AlanHamiltonAudio understandable

@dougaltolan3017 Жыл бұрын

I can't imagine a skilled drummer not hitting a mic (out of sheer drummerness)

@keith_hudson Жыл бұрын

@@dougaltolan3017 Been playing miced for years and I don't think I've ever hit the snare mic.

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

@@dougaltolan3017 'Skilled' is the key word... 'Experienced' is the other. And it goes both ways... An inexperienced A2 'in training' might be inclined to improperly place the mic. I'm speaking to that too. Plus, on a smaller festival stage, you might have a regional or national headliner later, but early in the day you could have a garage band on one of their first gigs. The A1 or A2 will need to compensate for that potential flailing drummer. Or a church tech, trained on the church system with electronic drums, and he or she has been informed there's a new drummer coming in with real drums for next week. In that case, that tech might just need a quick understanding of baseline mic placement.

@2m0nster Жыл бұрын

❤😊

@huntercurry Жыл бұрын

Hi Al!

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Hey Hunter!

@johnstewart7619 Жыл бұрын

Not to offend anyone here, but no triggers? I see so many drummers using triggers now days (especially on the bass drum) that it was kind of weird not seeing any………yes, Kenny is an awesome drummer, and contrary to what a lot of people are thinking while reading this (or going to roast me about here in the comments lol), using triggers is not always a metal thing (or worse, cheating lol). Triggers are also MIDI’d in with the lights, and sync’d with the lighting program (scenes). That being said: I like your set up, the mics and stands you used, and your sub-snake. 😉🤘🤘🤘🤘

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

I rarely see anyone using triggers these days live. There was a time it got semi-popular but that was several years ago. Like in the days of the Alesis D4. And there were a lot of drums in the 90's being recorded that all seemed to have the same snare sample. Producers having their pet drum samples they liked. But these days, not so much live as far as what I run into. I think it's partly because drum tuning techniques are so solid these days with serious/professional drummers so the source is normally solid, sound systems and digital consoles especially have nearly unlimited tools at the disposal of engineers, sound system tech has evolved to one with plenty of power and fidelity, and lastly acts traveling with their own console and mic packages (and digital recall as well) bring in a level of simplicity and consistency to the equation without resorting to triggers.... Triggers, while adding a consistency of sound, also add the wildcard of dying triggers (although the mics themselves can be triggers), false triggers, dynamics not lining up with the drummer's actual dynamics, etc. to a live environment where there are no Mulligans like a studio. Plus the studio has more time to fine tune things like that in post. Really, outside of a bad mic or cable that's quick to swap out, it's pretty easy to eliminate any show tripping or stopping problems on drums with mics and normal processing, yet still get great drum sounds. I can't remember the last time I've ran across an act was using triggers.

@johannjohann6523 6 ай бұрын

Yes but you lose that "organic" natural drum sound. I figure if you are using triggers you might as well go all the way and just use electronic drums. Not a big fan of triggers. Then again I'm one of the notion more notes do not make a song better. I don't mind double bass. Alex Van Halen is a good example. But alot of drummers have taken double bass playing to the points of ridiculous. And just muddle up the song with their playing. It's usually the same bands that have "cookie Monster" on the vocals, and ya can't understand a single word. So maybe playing crazy double bass doesn't matter, cause most of those bands are not really popular. And is the problem with Heavy Metal in America today. Want some good metal you gotta go outside the U.S. Japan: Ningjen Isu (check out the song "The Mad Man), Bandmaid (Thrill), Rolling Quartz (rock, not really metal, but fantastic), LaCuna Coil (Italy. Blood , Tears, Dust), Ignea (Ukraine), MotorJesus (Germany), Takis Solis (Greece. "Among the Fires of Hell") You won't be disappointed if you can handle singing instead of someone sounding like they are trying to eat the microphone. Keep on Rockin'!

@roberttaylor1275 Жыл бұрын

I slap the set like kenny...what's funny is in a small room I always tell the sound man..." hey man you're not gonna need a hihat mic..." his response:hey I always use em".... then whats funny is as soon as I four count....I see him dial down......always funny

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

I don't always use (turn on) the hat mic but every so often you get a light hitter and the snare mic isn't quite enough hi hat bleed to compensate. So I can understand someone with the default position of putting it up. Lot easier to turn it down than to have run a mic on the break... And also there's just sitting at the board thinking "I need to hear more hat" ...Until you can deal with it and stick a mic there ;) But that said, usually, maybe with some EQ adjustments and compromises, the snare mic can fill that hole with some hat bleed. Heh, and sometimes it's a different issue- the snare mic is not needed because the snare is so frickin' loud. So you don't have the snare mic on to pick up hat bleed. Of course in that case, even if there is a hat mic, it's going to be hard to get it functional and not picking up the snare that's already too loud in the room ;) But yeah, small room... drummer with some power... hat can be many times be dropped pretty easily.

@eddiedrummer7484 Жыл бұрын

There is small mic booms that connect or clamp to the cymbal arms. Too.

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Yes, and they can work really well to give you a compact, neat setup. But that's kind of thing that you want to do for your own drums or own band that you regularly mix. As a production provider, a lot of drummers, or band production managers, don't like you clamping things onto the set like that. For multi-band changeovers, if the band has their own mics it can really speed up their strike from the stage. They just drop the cable and the entire stand, clamp, and mic goes offstage. But if it's the production company's mics it can slow things down since the drummer (or stagehand) can't just grab a cymbal stand and get it off the stage but instead someone has to remove the claws from the stands so the A2 or someone with audio has to strike those. Someone has to remove those from the stands rather than just grab stand, cymbal and all, and get it off stage to the prep/pack area. Whereas, with mic stands someone can just drop the cables from the OH's, hats... etc... and take the entire stand and mic offstage where they can be totally struck and packed away offstage as the next act gets ready to go. Or in some cases, these things are not struck, but reused as-is for the next band. Just move them out of the way a couple of feet for the drums to clear, and move them back into position when the next set is there. With things like the clamp-on tom mics, the mics are going to go where they go on each kit. The kit setup won't make much difference. But when you're clamping onto stands, what works for one set might not at all work for an entirely different set since each drummer's set config and comfort can be so different. So a clamp system might not even work for some sets... but the tom mics and rim clips and regular mic stands can always work. But, for a self-contained drummer, having things like clamps on cymbal/drum stands to cut down mic stands can speed things up for these situations, and remove clutter. It all depends on the situation and which angle a person is coming from... Production company and multiple drummers, or a drummer/band with their own self-contained mic package and PM/BE.

@danhandskillz 3 ай бұрын

Anyone else see the DW kit with 2 bass drums, both mic’d, but only one with a pedal? Wondering if that’s purely for show, or is there benefit to capturing low end from it?

@rotorhead58d Жыл бұрын

OK, real world situation. I am the sound man at a small gig. You have 15 minutes to place your mics and only 4 dedicated channels on the mixer. Go...

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Assuming rock or pop-country - Kick mic, snare mic (probably)... 2 toms= mic each tom. 3 toms = split the 2 racks or 2 floors. 4 toms = split each pair. More than 4 toms in a situation with only 4 channels for the drummer? Ugh... Snare gets a "probably" because it's possible the room is small, the stage is small, and the snare is loud and already too loud. But even in that scenario, I can unassign the snare from the house mix but still put reverb on it. For jazz, big band, old timey country.... Kick mic, snare mic 2 OH's (with minimal HPF settings). And the snare mic may or may not be needed/used but it's nice to have it 'just in case'. Could be plenty snare from the stage or in the OH's.

@rotorhead58d Жыл бұрын

@@AlanHamiltonAudio that is very helpful because I deal with it quite a bit. Thanks so much!

@jas_bataille Жыл бұрын

I'll add that if I don't know the music, I can only assume their might be brushes used; a good thing is to ask the drummer or look in the their stick bag : if I don't see any brushes, and the snare is plenty loud already, then I can skip the snare mic. Otherwise, better assume the snare sound cool get real low in the middle of the set for that one critical ballad at 50BPM where everyone is relying on the brush work to keep time... then, well, you screwed up big if everyone's on in-ears...!! Otherwise... Snare, kick, overheads in XY on a single-stand would me my go-to for me. But, Alan has good points; for me at this level of high-hitting in a small stage tho, I'd probably not mic anything too close except the kick; then add in the overheads and a room/ambience mic in front - worst scenario, flip the phase of the ambient mic, then raise it up to cut out the bleed! You can also use a boundary microphone on the stage's back wall if it's too close - and too reflective - to the kit, and then invert the phase to completely cancel this unwanted reflection. You could be surprised as how much clarity you can gain without passing any of the drum sound through the PA at all! A nifty little secret, this one! Some studios have one of thouse boundary microphones on each wall...! There are studio techniques to capture the tom perfectly as well with three to 4 microphones, but in 15 minutes, you'd have to know them by heart as they require extremely precise positioning.

@crustyjusty7 Жыл бұрын

When channels are in short supply I usually go kick, snare and 2 overheads - then do a bit of EQ work on the overheads.

@williamweiss6128 Жыл бұрын

🤣 right. My gig? I'm already too loud most the time on the drums, not miked.

@IMGOATOF2K 26 күн бұрын

Show your Eq

@AlanHamiltonAudio 19 күн бұрын

If you look on the channel video list there are a few videos showing my EQ techniques on drums. There's even a playlist with several drum videos in it.

@johannjohann6523 6 ай бұрын

Plus, the guy never ages. Am I right?

@AlanHamiltonAudio 6 ай бұрын

He's a dynamo for sure.

@dalemullins4562 Жыл бұрын

You don't mic Kenny's rig he just bleeds over into everyone else's mics

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

LOL... Kenny had an earset mic and I had to watch closely to when he would play or want to talk to mute/unmute that mic. That earset channel was no match for those drums! :D

@TheRealBKSchyster Жыл бұрын

Hi Alan!! Was those specific mics part of Kenny's rider??

@AlanHamiltonAudio Жыл бұрын

Those were all my normal go to mics, except Kenny brought his own B91 for kick in (but I have one). I looked to see if I could find the paperwork and don't see it... I'm pretty sure it was up to me to use what I wanted. I don't think there was a list to be honest with you.