Do check out Thomas' skillshare class on productivity for FREE at skl.sh/hellofutureme - he's a fellow KZfaqr, and I use his app setup to help me write! This video was a ton of fun to put together, and I hope it offered a different perspective on the legacy of Tolkien and The Lord of the Rings. We often like to focus on how he codified the genre tropes, but looking a little bit at genre theory is fascinating. ~ Tim

Tolkien basically set the standard too darn high for any other author to reach. Plenty of us have sufficient imagination and writing skill but very few of us are accomplished professors capable of building worlds based on linguistics.

Never forget that Lewis included the lamp post in "the lion, the witch, and the wardrobe" because Tolkien, his friend, said it was a bad idea.

I love the fact that Tolkien's arachnophobia is the father of thousands of giant spider monsters in all forms of media.

COPPA: Fantasy is made for children. Tolkien: Well yes, but actually no.

So what you are saying is that Tolkien wisely abandoned the Isekai genre.

It would be amazing if you make a video about the opinion Tolkien had about Disney (not a good one). He went to see Snow White with his friend C.S. Lewis in 1937 and they disapproved it a lot. Especially the design of the dwarves and the general tone of the movie. They were impressed by the quality of the animation though. It is said, I think, that Tolkien prohibited his heirs to sell the LOTR rights to Disney.

"isekai is overrated" -tolkien

it really makes me happy that after all these years there are still people discussing and analyzing lord of the rings

iN mY oPiNioN, I would say the greatest aspect that distinguished Tolkien was that he created stories for his world rather than a world for his stories. (Or more specifically languages, but you take my point.) It allowed for a lot more depth and themes to be gotten across as it wasn’t constrained by the main characters because they themselves were only small pieces of a much larger story It’s something that every fantasy creator has done since, but will never be able to surpass.

7:55 this reminded me of a review of A Song of Ice and Fire that said it was "Fantasy for smart people," implying that other fantasy - and by immediate association LotR - is childish and not intellectual. And I'm like "Bruh, LotR still has more thematic depth and world depth than 95% of the genre and it's been decades."

Last time I was this early we still had Gandalf the Grey

Just walked out of a movie marathon at event cinemas of all 3 lord of the rings movies. It definitely impacted my life, I’m glad to say long after Tolkien has left us he is still impacting lives, and will continue to do so for many generations.

So wait i just realised that Alice in Wonderland might be one of the first isekai ever made

Skillshare, Squarespace and... Raid Shadow legends. The Holy trinity of paid in-video advertisement

An excellent video essay. You've really hit the nail on the head on why LOTR works as both a fantasy story and as a foundation for other fantasy stories that came afterwards.

I always think of Fantasy as being based on Truths (Ideals) and Sci-Fi as being based in Laws. Fantasy stories don't necessarily need complex and defined magic systems, but they need in universe truth: the power of humility, the power of love, the inevitability of time and decay. Magic maybe, but more importantly truths. Sci-Fi on the other hand lives on laws. Ships that fly through space use black hole technology and theoretical sciences that are only just beyond the imagination of real life. We have lazors powerful enough and small enough to create a replica of a video game character's gun, a replica that can set your drapes on fire from 3 meters away. Sci-Fi takes the just unrealized, and pursues it to it's logical extreme. Then you have Science Fantasy. The mixture of Truths and Laws. I think examples like Star Wars and the modern Doctor Who speak for themselves in this regard.

You should do a video on the dark twin of Tolkien, M.A.R. Barker, the forgotten creator of the World of Tékumel that never reached his fame, because his deep world-building is as dark and twisted as LotR is hopeful and noble.

One book that people seem to miss, when talking about pre-Tolkien fantasy, is E.R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroborous. Which is utterly bonkers, but also really good fun.

It was The Fellowship of The Ring that really got me into worldbuilding, and I'd really like to thank it for that. I feel like it really helped to deepen my stories.

5:04 Marketing vs Creativity. A tale as old as time...

HFM: Fantasy existed before Tolkien. Me: HERESY! BURN HIMMM!!!!!

So instead of making a fictional world existing in the books its more of a simulation or reality. Would Tolkien make a good video game developer?

He's got his kids making millions off his silmarillions

3:08 So are you telling me that the Isekai Genre is ideologically indebted to pre-Tolkien Fantasy

I have seen the wardrobe in “The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe” used as a symbol of escape, and I fundamentally disagree with that. I think C. S. Lewis’ books are in one form or another escapism, but the book clearly paints a picture of children going into another world toward danger not away from it. I don’t think Lewis’ world is always a means of escaping the daily grind. It does appear such as in “The Silver Chair,” but TLTWATW I think carries a different purpose. As a Christian, Lewis believed in the idea of a “true country” and though Aslan’s country becomes the literal manifestation of this is the final book, Narnia is a place that mirrors that other country. I do think he uses the didactic fantasy elements throughout the series, but I don’t think it is supposed to be a means of pure escapism as some people see I today. I think it could be read that way of course, but I’m not sure that was the authors intention. Obviously though this sparks a completely different question around whether or not a book is defined by the audience or the author, but I tend to lean toward the authors intent, not what people think it is.

"that book you've been working on for half a freaking decade" 11 years now, but it's also now 3 books and I'm 2 chapters of edits away from finished. SOOOOO close to finally being able to move onto the next story. This one sucks, but I have learned some great skills from my attempts to polish a turd. The new story will be much better

At first I thought, "well, Tolkien is just making mythology, it's no different than something like Beowulf" but I can't believe it *just* occurred to me that those ancient stories take place in the real world and never leave it, while making an entirely new world for it's own sake was something totally new. Every year I find out something more genius about the man

And that's my Middle Earth is my favourite fantasy setting of all times.

Elfs existed in mediavel folclore for cdnturies. But every time we heard the word elf it is the tokian elves that come into mind.

Could you do a video on the outcomes of Team Avatar taking the offer of Long Feng to leave Ba Sing Se outright in exchange for Appa? I know they dismissed it immediately, but if they hadn't, it would of had some interesting outcomes. 1. Azula would have never known about the invasion plan, or have been able to take over Ba Sing Se, which would mean that the Day of Black Sun would have likely been a success, or at the very least much more successful, and that the Earth Kingdom would have never 'fallen' like it did in the show. 2. Zuko and Iroh would not have reconnected with Azula, meaning that they would be free to live their lives in comfort and prosperity serving at the Jasmin Dragon. 3. Aang would have been able to master the Avatar State without interruption, but would probably not been able to find another fire bending master, or discovered the true meaning of fire with Zuko. 4. All the events that took place in the Fire Nation, or happened as a result of the invasion failing would not have been necessary. So no Sokka sword mastering, no reconnecting with Suki, etc. (Sorry Sokka) 5. No one would have betrayed Azula, meaning she (probably) would have never become crazy like she did at the end. 6. Ba Sing Se would have had no reason to be saved, and therefore would still be ruled by the Dai Lee. Or... Team Avatar, having defeated the Fire Nation After the Day of Black Sun, spend the rest of the season liberating Ba Sing Se from the inside.

I think it's easier than that. Most fantasy existed outside of English (German literature from the 19th and early 20th century is nothing but what we would now call fantasy). Tolkien was just writing his works at the right time and in the right language (+ of course being a skilled writer)

Got it: Tolkien literally ended the Isekai of his time. We need another Tolkien.

I know this video is about " lord of the rings" and tolkien. But i've gotta say this: i Love "the chronicles of Narnia"

2:30 actually for our group it was a Paladin that did this, he also checks rooms for traps with his face and somehow lived, my Rouge said you know i can disarm then without them stabbing you in the face to which he said i was taking too long, it made my job less dangerous as now i could stand WELL BACK and let him go first.

I was rewatching the return of the King on TV ..and my Dad (who didn't watch the movies) passed by just as Aragorn bows to our 4 hobbits .. he just stopped and was in awe ..and asked me why was the king bowing to them . ..he got even a little emotional even though he didn't watch the movie ..that's what made Lord of the Rings unique ...it made us care about a universe that doesn't exist and isn't familiar to us..but the connections between people ..Hope ..friendship..love and sacrifice ..that's familiar ..that's what we seek ..Lord of the Rings will remain the best because it had heart

Everytime I read his works and watch the movies I FEEL like I'm in the world, I SEE MYSELF in Middle-Earth. What makes his works stand out from other fantasy authors such as George R. R. Martin and Frank Herbert is everything from the names of locations, to the point where they feel like REAL places, to the descriptions of places as if Tolkien himself was there before. The way Tolkien described EVERYTHING makes it seem like he was there, in the moment, and that makes it more submersive.

I'm a simple man I see LOTR I click like.

I have found that with Tolkien's work you need hours, if not months, to digest the genius and wonder of it.

When it comes to writing, you can't wait for a good time. YOU have to MAKE time for writing, even if it's only a little bit at a time. Everyone has busy lives, and everyone gets tired because of these busy lives, but the reality is if you can't even square away 30 minutes or an hour just for writing, you're never going to put that idea to page.

Tolkien took inspiration from norse and other mythologies and then set the standards and stereotypes for fantasy races and beings.

2:25 *looks at current dnd campaign* can't deny that

Tl;dr: He made it AWESOME and INTELLIGENT and INSIGHTFUL!

I have to disagree with you on Tolkien being the first to create a serious fantasy world. LOTR was published in 1954. Prior to that was pulp fiction specifically Robert E Howard and his creation of Hyborea and Edgar Rice Burrows with John Carter of Mars (and other worlds) I'll grant that Tolkien wrote more in depth but he was not the first.

This is why I always click on your videos man. A unique take on Tolkien of all subjects is so hard to find, and I'm willing to bet that a lot of other KZfaqrs wouldn't be able to pull of a video of this depth in a month, much less a week (if that's how long it took you to make, but feel free to correct me). You're a badass!

You know it's interesting you namedropped the Shannara series, as that's such a good example of how a fantasy series can actually break out of those confined tolkienistic tropes. Those first few books tenatively dipped their toes in ideas but didn't make the real leap but god there are some GOOD and varied fantasy ideas throughout that series

I'm surprised he didn't at least give a nod to Robert E. Howard and his Conan the Barbarian series which was close to contemporary with Tolkien. He, H.P. Lovecraft, and Tolkien were at least aware of each other in the 1930's I believe it was. Howard's world and genre has at least a lot of parallels to Middle Earth. It's considered Dark Fantasy or possibly "Low Fantasy" by some, and this would include the Thieve's World series as well.

I would love to see what do you think about worldbuilding in Dark Souls.

My one problem with Tolkien is that he set the bar so damn high, I doubt anyone will ever truly reach his level 😭😭

Tim: Tolkien didn't invent fantasy. Me: So you have chosen... death.

Honestly side note, I'm so happy to have discovered this channel. I remember I stumbled upon this when I was needing inspiration for a big bad guy in my D&D campaign. And literally just one video has me watching every video so I can get a better understanding of how to do better storytelling, how to do better world building, how to make interesting villains, unique side characters, and etc. Honestly love your channel and will always keep supporting it.

Thank you, I needed this video! Seeing how "just writing a book" may not be enough - it seems important to consider the time we live in - as bringing readers in a new direction can be done well or less so. It would be interesting to see a video about finding that balance between using a "formulaic genre" and "breaking the mold": using something that the reader is familiar with, yet provide something new to the metaphorical table.

So Tolkien woke up one day, wrote an entire language and said, "Man this needs an epic back drop" It is amazing how much Tolkien influenced the genre. The genealogy of almost all modern fantasy can be traced back to that one man. It's almost sad that so many of the little things that he introduced were put to the wayside.

As it says in the video, with what Tolkien did, makes him the greatest Author of all time. No Author has EVER done (or come anywhere near) to what he did. Also the knowledge, the depth, the history etc, made it soooo believable you could truly imagine such a world existing. He made the story not just deep but believable. Motivational, inspirational and a world you could/can escape to. It has affected and impacted so many lives, including mine. Also helped me when I was in/at a dark time and has helped save my life and made it stronger. Also an Author that truly believed in his own work and even had the names "Beren" and "Luthien" inscribed on his and his wife's gravestones. A true Master, a Genius and I am honoured to have lived in a time to experience his story, his books and the movies. There truly will never be another Author like him and unfortunately there will be no-one/nothing like him or the movies ever again. God Bless You J R R Tolkien and thank you for what you have given us. Mae Govannen and Namarie Mello nin.

There is a massive Conan and RE Howard shaped hole in the history section of this video.

It's worth noting that anyone familiar with Norse mythology will know of far older examples of the old wandering wizard with a pointy hat. The original also has an eyepatch, a couple of pet ravens, and the horse he calls upon is a little more interesting than Shadowfax, given it has 8 legs. Odin is the prototypical wizard, Tolkien just popularized the idea in the modern English speaking world.

I think part of what makes book like Lord of the Rings (and lesser known works like The Earthsea Cycle and The Book of the New Sun) so special is that they're talking about things that are incredibly real, but cannot be described literally. Frodo's path of darkness and light is something that is a real process, that of growing up and finally going to Heaven, wearied and laden down and ready for rest. Ged's cycle of growing, maturing, stripping of power, and eventually finding a family mirror something very real but interior. The Book of the New Sun chronicles that awful realization one has when they come to know how deeply flawed they are, and that much of what they think they are must end in order to truly live. One could go on. But, like you'd said, Tolkien's literalization of Middle Earth (this is a real place with its own history) allowed for the interior conflicts that we all go through to have some form of concreteness. It's different to tell a reader that the things that they go through that no one else sees will be fleeting and strange than saying "No, that has real effects. WHAT YOU FELT WILL GO ON". I think Tolkien captured something that no one before him had captured. And he managed to strike when the iron was hot, post WWII, when people desperately needed to be told what he was saying. But that's a digression for another day.

You forgot to mention about Robert E. Howard's work, he never wrote for children.

I thought the fantasy genre existed forever, since the ancient myths of Theseus, Perseus, Beowulf Siegfried Gilgamesh etc. Aren't these considered epic fantasy?

One aspect of Tolkien's influence that I think is worth bringing up is his influence not only on the fantasy genre, but on the medium of gaming. You mentioned the D&D classes deriving from Tolkien, but the way that this carried into the RPG is notable, and I don't know that it would have happened if it hadn't been Tolkien. His commitment to worldbuilding and lore, is the big thing, of course-- the way he describes the immersive world rings with foresight. But I also think that sensitivity of an author directly affected by both war and the destruction of nature contributed to a framework on which something like the JRPG could grow. Tolkien wrote of forest guardians being burned to power war machines and the idyllic Shire falling to the powers of industry, and you don't have to look far to see the same sort of themes, in fantastical trappings, in Japanese fiction and media of the latter half of the 20th century. Combine Western gaming's inheritance from Tolkien with Japanese game developers who, as children, still felt the scars of war and watched the spirit-filled wilderness in their backyards paved over for apartments, and you get the makings for a great legacy of games. I'm still not sure about "escapism," which I think functionally is used as a dismissive term, but Tolkien's almost spiritual reclamation of it makes sense. I just don't think his semantic understanding carries when we throw that term around. The implication is "waste of time for cowards who can't face reality," or "mindless fictional comfort food" at best. I think it assumes that readers engage with reading or storytelling on a spectrum of engaging with reality (which can only ever be ugly) to escaping from it. It's one of those terms I feel like we use out of convention but it's so loaded and subjective as to not serve very much meaningful use.

Not to mention the depth and dimensionality of his male characters. They're allowed to love and to mourn and to express those things freely, it makes the characters feel so much more real than most rigid, one dimensional male characters we typically see.

Very well done! I have been perpetually rereading tolkiens works(with a focus on his writings on the first age) since my mom handed me a copy of the hobbit in 1995 when I was 15. Im an illustrator and have spent thousands of hours interpreting his words visually. I LOVE living in this time and having such easy access to others work that gives my little new pieces that further the Tolkien puzzle in my head! Ty for your efforts!

I love your stuff, and you've even gotten me inspired to read this series! I'm on the first book now. You should do a video explaining what orcs are though. I've seen different theories (fallen elves, generic monsters, forged by sauron, etc). Im sure you could shed some light on it!

Tim, Your books have helped me so much in the book I am writing. Your advice has helped me map out my mythology. I tell 4 stories each completely different from the last. Thanks

This is an extremely good video. The depth of understanding for fantasy, it's history, and it's place in our world really shows. And the script is well phrased, well paced, and well presented. Most of all; I learned something.

So, I spent a lot of time when I was younger playing Lord of the Rings Online, (and am thinking about getting back into it), and I _really_ loved it. You can tell that the people who make it _love_ all the background Tolkien wrote for Middle Earth. They take time to flesh out so much of Arda, especially the various cultures of Men. The Dunedain, the tribes of Dunland, the people of the Lone-Lands, the people of Bree-land, and _so much more._ And that's just in Eriador. And for a pretty low price tag, at that. The game itself is free-to-play, but you can buy fairly inexpensive quest packs that are _massive,_ and the main quest line is _always_ free, you'll just have to find ways to grind to get to a high enough level to play it if you don't want to give the LOTR fans who make this game any of your money. I love it more than any other LOTR game on the market, simply because it really feels like a labor of love, and not just a corporate cash-in. (And also all of the lore the game makes up to further flesh out the world fits in seamlessly into what is already there.)

Things you bring up in this video: The fact that scifi and fantasy were conflated in early years of publishing + The idea that LOTR changed things by using a framing device to make the story more real and consequential = The association: Science fiction, including Lovecraft and going all the way back to Frankenstein, use framing devices to ground their stories in the real world. You could say Tolkien changed fantasy by making it more scifi.

I was afraid Brandon Sanderson wouldn't get quoted in this video, I'm glad you got it in there.

I just happened to be re-reading LotR. Every time I come back to it there is so much depth and history to learn and enjoy that goes fast beyond the basic plot. I also forgot how many songs and poems he added in the story. Almost every history of something is told in song which makes sense as it is a world that is based on cultures that really valued the oral tradition of keeping history through song.

Ahhhhhhhh a Tolkein episode from Tim. Fantastic as always. I can't wait till the prequel TV show airs so you can do episodes explaining the lore / characters / themes etc.

William Morris' booms and worlds were a great inspiration to Tolkien. He even used some of the names from them. Gandolf being one of them. Also no one travels from the real world into Morris' worlds.

Your background musics for the endings are the best in all of KZfaq

“J.R.R. Tolkien has become a sort of mountain, appearing in all subsequent fantasy in the way that Mt. Fuji appears so often in Japanese prints. Sometimes it’s big and up close. Sometimes it’s a shape on the horizon. Sometimes it’s not there at all, which means that the artist either has made a deliberate decision against the mountain, which is interesting in itself, or is in fact standing on Mt. Fuji.” ― Terry Pratchett

Loved this video essay. I wish I could play DND in a world created by someone so knowledgeable of world building as you are! Keep up the good work!

Highly recommend The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant The Unbeliever because of this video but if not that Stephen Donaldson also wrote an essay on Epic fantasy that goes in detail into some of the differences between fantasy before and after Tolkein and what he was trying to do with Thomas Covenant. Donaldson was a Tolkein scholar and it's a very interesting essay if you don't pick up the covenant books

Well done sir! One of your best ones yet, I’d go as far as to say!

I’ve just come out of the cinema after watching Return of the King (extended ed.) @ IMAX - the final part of a 3 week long marathon. I cannot tell you how buzzed and happy I am to see this video 😁 ... btw am I the only one who forgot “The Scouring of the Shire” wasn’t included in the extended edition ... I just remember it so vividly that I thought it had been filmed.

Amazing video tim!

LOVED this video thank you I'm making a diaporama on how Tolkien changed fantasy for a school presentation that is like 20% of my grade and I had only read the hobbit so this helped me A LOT!!

Name dropped Thomas Covenant, my personal favorite fantasy series.

I feel like fantasy in anime and other Japanese literature has done an intresting semicircular swing in popularity. Were as popular fantasy before Tolkien was literally escapism to a fantasy world of little consequence. And after popular fantasy was escapism in the metaphorical sense in a world of greater consequences. Now a popular sub genre of Japanese literature, called isekei. Were escapism is once again literal. Main characters find themselves summoned, reincarnated, or spirited away to a fantasy world. But the world does make sense as it's a real world with real consequences. Thus the semi circle. Isekeis are often power fantasies to as the main character usually has a huge advantage over the residence of the fantasy world either cause they were granted powerful abilities apon arriving or their advance knowledge of natural and/or political science and economics from modern society grant huge edge over the locals. Big examples this would be "How Realist Hero Rebuilt a Kingdom" a story of a college student studying history, economics and political science, was summoned to a fantasy world by a declining kingdom, and how he rebuilt it. Another is "That time I was reincarnated as a Slime" were a mid level manger of construction company was killed and reincarnated as a puny slime monster but was granted a powerfull ability. Through this ability and his modern knowledge he creates a nation from scratch. And my favorite Overlord, where an avid vr mmorpg player finds himself mysteriously summoned into a magical world similar to the mmo's world in the body of his undead avatar and all the vast resource of his players guild. His maxed leveled avatars bodies and abilities alone makes him God like in comparisons regular citizens, but the resource of his guild and now sentient and fiercely loyal NPC, means he commands more power than the greatest super power nations in the fantasy world. And from that point on the main character begins a slow decent from hero to anti hero to villian in a matter I'd compare to Walter white from Breaking Bad.

This gentleman is an inspiration.. Please continue to enlighten!!!

Hey Tim, love your videos! I was just wondering, if you knew Susanna Clarke's "Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell". The worldbuilding is very peculiar and it features a very interesting take on magic. Also I'd love to see you discuss more traditional, fairytale- and fable-based ideas of magic. Keep up the good work, greetings from the other side of the world. :)

Great video my man

The book I've been working on for half a decade? Side-eyes the story I've technically started working on 12 years ago. No idea what you're talking about. Great video, I loved it!

Pls do a review of the dragon prince season 3!!! I'd love to hear your thoughts on it

This might be my favorite video of yours. It finally put into words what I've always meant when trying to explain why I disliked stories where characters from the real world are transported to a fantasy one.

Very insightful. Thanks, Tim, you're an endless well of cleverness.

Love the obezet ghost council cameo @8:50 well done Tim

Let's not denigrate the pulps. Howard, Lovecraft, Bierce and Leiber all had marvelous fantasies.

Your video essays always make me want to do my own because your analysis is so deep and thoughtful and wonderful, but then I don't want to do my own because yours are so good, how can I compete? It's like reading a really good book, say Lord of the Rings, and saying, "Well, I can never do that good, so I'll just not write mine and read this again!" Whether I get to my own or not, this is my way of saying wonderful video and fantastic, strangely inspiring analysis of both Lord of the Rings and the fantasy Genre as a whole.

I can never find the quote, but Tolkien once remarked (something like) that it's easy to write a blue sun, the trick is to create a world where a blue sun makes sense. That always seems to me be the fundamental understanding of fantasy that he brought to the genre. His world almost never contradicts its own internal logic, and it therefore has a rock solid structural integrity. Anyone from Frank Herbert to George RR Martin writing fantasy since Tolkien have taken that on board.

Great video! A few Q’s: How did you do your research for this video? Where did you begin? What kind of book are you writing? Is it available yet?

I can’t talk for other parties, but I can assure you every D&D party I’ll be member of will have at least on snobbish elf.

I just love how the archetypes and tropes were fully fleshed out from Tolkien's races and it still carries forward in fantasy to this day, from books and gaming

2:29 LEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRROOOOYYYYYYYYYYY JEEENKINS.

Makes me feel like I'm going about my worldbuilding all wrong 😂 I had characters first, then started to create a world for them and am still going from there. Sounds like creating the world first makes for generally more coherent and in-depth stories ☹

So, Fantasy was originally mostly Isekai until Tolkien evolved it? I guess the genre is currently devolving then...

Nice video! I'd be interested in seeing a video-essay on the Hyborian Age from Robert Howard!

I would love to see your thoughts on the lore and world-building of that Netflix series Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance. It's such a good show.