I do. But you have to admit, what did they expect when they wanted to build and launch rockets on a nature preserve?????

everyone involved with faa wants to see this rocket fly (to surrect planets is how to live in a universe)

@@gamerfortynine every living being wants to see this rocket fly (to surrect planets is how to live in a universe)

@@gamerfortynine they plan to make starbase boca chica a mars space port

@@gregcavanaugh6259 do you assume they never receive prior approval for this, before investing so heavily in Boca Chica?

Very cool and definitely something to proud of!

I legit read that as "wedding academy" 😂

Space x will never reach mars in our lifetime. I don't believe a word musk says. At least they are getting paid 👍

Give me job sir

They defined flux core entirely "inside-out" ! 🤔

Yeah, they "mastered" something that is done all over the world. It's strange how people prace them for the most normal things

@@johpfit760 the video didn't say it's unique or anything else... They mastered welding just like you would master mathematics like millions of people around the world. They just explained how.

@@johpfit760 i don't think literal rocket science is a "most normal thing"

@@stanpines9011 Large stainless steel tanks with extremely accurate and smooth weldings are necessary in a lot of industries. Ranging from Food production to Chemical industries.

Had as much to do with training a workforce as anything, I think. Even the hand welding had the effect of training welders to understand what was required from robotic automation.

The approach pairs especially well with the ultimate goal of mass producing many hundred rockets. Start by trying the least expensive production method possible to see IF you can get that to work. If not, upgrade the process a little and try again. ...

Break *cheap* things

I believe it is the same as agile software development, but applied to rockets of course. Create prototypes to test concepts, changing the design as and when needed, and converging to the final product.

Evolution

" Pretty unique " literally no other rocket on the entire planet throughout all of human history can do what starship does

Also, Flux core gives a nasty weld. Better to go with some form of tig. Maybe wire feed tig. Even mig would be a better choice.

True, well said.

Flux core is mig welding.

@@joekerr168 Yes, and no. Flux core is a form of gas metal arc welding, but NO ONE confuses flux core with standard MIG welding. Just like they don't confuse either with dual-shield despite the similarities.

@@joekerr168 the AWS defines several types of welding processes such as FCAW: self shielded no gas, FCAW-G: dual shield uses gas, GMAW: spray transfer solid wire w low CO2 mix like 95/5, GMAW-S: solid wire short circuit w gas [traditionally called MIG or MAG depending on the gas mix] mig stands for metal inert gas so technically self shielded flux core is NOT mig cause there's no inert shielding gas.

Right, that makes perfect sense now that you said it. Obviously warping is especially strong with thin sheets of metal. But additionally (just as it was well explained in the video), from a hardness standpoint, the hammering has the added benefit of increasing hardness at the seams by flattening the metal grains and thus increasing the local yield strength at the seams. 304L is also well malleable (which further speaks for the usage of this alloy in regards of your point). And additionally, 304L is very well suitable for low temperature applications whilst still having great heat resistance properties, so its an overall excellent choice regarding the the big temperature differences Starship experiences in the course of its journey to Mars etc and all the other rough conditions a rocket goes through in its lifespan!

Planishing also increases HAZ toughness due to cold working as well as forming discontinuities in the crystallographic microstructure. Peening does a similar thing, too.

Exactly! The HAZ zone would be the greatest danger to failure for the structure.

You beat me to it - lol -. Weld/heat distortion is even worse with high expansion metals, eg alum, SS, etc.

@lukaepeluca impressive. This is why it's not open to the stock market. So people like you can't invest. Fickel minds kill ipo's. Nothing like marketing a reusable rocket. Such a scam. 1/10th as expensive payloads. Definitely not a high tech rocket company. . . . . . . JFC

the ITS is still by far my favorite, it's a shame but understandable it was replaced

@@memethief4113 It was cool but i like how they applied a real use of the belly flop on practice and the "sleekier" design of current Starship compared to ITS

I did not know the old giant starship kins of existed physically

I did not know this, why the hell do we use stainless steel anyway then? Wouldn't it be better to use something more heat resistant?

@@ryandavis4689 Because heat shielding exists? With that logic we probably shouldn't be putting humans in rockets either since we're not very heat resistant.

They use Various cooling methods to maintain the optimal temperature for the steel, such as active cooling aka super cold fuel pumped through the ship. There are no metals on earth that can withstand reentry from space.

@@ryandavis4689 Extreme heat isn't the only thing to consider. The material also has to maintain its strength in extreme cold due to cryogenic fuel. Strength to weight ratio is also very important. Spacex must have decided somehow that the alloy they are using had the best balance between all these properties.

304 also prone to corrosion.the amount of welding is huge,i am doubtful about the metal stress.I will be hesitant to fly in it..needs alot of test flight s. 316 costly but quality is high

Damn

It’s it funny how the welders never get the recognition they deserve? Most welding engineers cannot weld to a high degree as specialized welders do. Being a welder you have to know the material you’re working with and keeping in mind the correct angles and heat parameters as well. It’s a art

@@Highplainsdrifter44 I thought it is a science.

@@Deontjie it's a science. My professor, Dr. Jemian, a real-life genius that would memorize everybody's name in the classroom within two classes, in every class, helped NASA develop the technology/methods necessary to weld the Space Shuttle liquid hydrogen tank. He taught us about it in our Science of Materials II class at Auburn University. Robots do critical welding where possible, nowadays, and non-destructive testing is done to ensure the integrity.

@@Highplainsdrifter44neither do the scientists or other actual engineers on the project?

​@@Highplainsdrifter44 depends on the particular workplace. I'm the Navy, welding engineers tend to be trained welders as well.

Thanks!

It sounds like that's basically what they ended up with. Switching to stainless tig welders means they needed talented welders. The food and nuclear energy sector has plenty of them.

That's Musk for you! Pretending to solve problems that have been solved years ago with no fanfare. He truly is todays P.T. Barnum that dupes so many suckers!

@@colors6692 the fact that you think somebody was trying to swindle your thoughts by switching to TIG welding from flux core shows how inept your train of thought is. Flux core welders are extremely cheap. A dime a dozen. Nuclear stainless tig welders on the other hand start out at six figures. Oh, he solved a problem all right. One of money. Only the mentally deficient think it was some farce.

Super interesting!

Spacex does it all by itself to avoid the stacking up of profit margins. That's why their programs are cheaper than that of any other space organisation.

The merging of two people with pain

Carbon fiber has a practical temperature limit in air (oxygen environment) of around 800 - 1000 C, in a vacuum CF can withstand much higher temperatures.

@@davidb6576 Thanks for clarifying

Regardless, you can't just take away half of what carbon fiber is. The properties of the resin are just as importaint as the carban to make it a strong and light material. I'm sure the original design was just another case of an animator trying to make things look cool and futuristic.

Graphite fiber gas has negative coefficient of thermal expansion, a high temp resin matrix (withstanding 3000 degrees) has been available for decades ....see brake rotors of a FA- 18.

@@duncandmcgrath6290 Look up Fiber Materials Inc. in Maine. (Now owned by Spirit Aerosystems). They’ve been making carbon-carbon and 3d carbon matrix composites for rockets since the 70s!

Thanks for the help!

This very much depends on what type of FCAW filler wire is used. Many require shielding gas and are extremely intolerant of wind.

Fcaw stainless absolutely sucks in the wind. Oxidization and porosity run rampant with just a little breeze. Dual shield would have been far better. But TIG welding with an inert gas on the inside of the rocket as well would be the way to go.

@@KamotzII I'm referring to self shielded.

@@eyeballengineering7007 I think it’s very likely they did use dual shield stainless. I can’t imagine anyone would have though self shield would be applicable. And while inefficient, dual shield stainless can be a really nice process.

They where aware. Sometimes it’s better to build a crappy mock-up than to wait for the good stuff to arrive. It’s an opportunity for the team to align, and good for morale.

@@ddavidebor They are aware after having initially made bad mistakes. It would have been better to start off on the right leg with the proper information and the good stuff right off the bat. It's called knowing what you're doing and not wasting valuable resources.

If I remember correctly, elon tweeted that he was aware of this problem before production. If something is very obvious to anyone, and a space company does it anyways, there's probably a reason lol

@@dyslexicstoner2408 gotta keep investors happy i suppose even if its just for a minute 🤣

yeah I was thinking the same thing. I think what happens is they didn't know a thing about designing or fabricating stuff, so they hired some guy which happened to be not fit for the job to take care of it. Then the guy thought any weld is same. Seriously, any decent undergrad from mechanical engineering would do better job. But I guess elon and others noticed how bad it ended up, but kept going with it since he needs something to show to investors. And then they agree to target first successful one not at first several attempts. In long run it ended up interests more money

nice pfp lol

Two words 'toasted homosapiens'.

To the point that when I first saw it, I though it was a render

@@steren700 So did I

Exactly! (More/less anyways, pragmatics aside) Nothing about Starship makes any actual sense in any way of function, composition, or design. Elon is a pathological liar that is fully aware that a large portion of his popularity and relevancy is based on his perceived interest and innovation in space exploration while under the facade of philanthropic concerns. What Is unclear is to what extent his pathological Histrionic Personality Disorder and narcissism have manifested into deluded interjection or mearly distraction by means of deception. Using 304L steel approximate6 quarter inch thick increases the mass by 12 fold compared to carbon fiber aluminum hull and will never be human rated. So that they can maintain some sort of legitimacy of maintaining Stainless steel as a viable cost effective material for a rentry craft that size. They have vaguely described a coolant system of liquid methane and sometimes liquid nitrogen that would somehow circulate the hull along welds and will somehow keep the structural integrity from warping. When you account for the mass of the structure materials and reserve fuel for reentry. That leaves next to nil for payload let alone life support essentials.

1kg of carbon is lighter too, because carbon is lighter than steel

@@Noblyuntruthful 1kg of metal and 1kgof steel weighs the same💀

@@Aiirsine Think he meant that 1kg of carbon would cover a larger surface area of the rocket than steel would, ultimately making the rocket lighter.

@Scott Park Maybe he's red blooded , though and through, where the majority have only the briefest of interactions with the metric system in primary school. I have a masters in computer science. College was a life time ago , and on more than one occasion since I have started/ texted I was going so and so kilometers , instead of kph. So what if he compared the mass of two kg, he has more intelligence and deductive reasoning skills than any of the SpaceX fan boys that believe anything thay Elon musk says. A cubic meter of 304l steel weighs 8030 kilograms. A compressed M3 Of 5 mil carbon fiber sheets weighs around 2000 kgs. Aluminum and all its relevant alloys have a max density kg/m3 of 2730 kgs. A rough average of structural components of crew dragon and falcon 9 equals 6 mil carbon fiber / aluminum honey comb the frames and support structures of SpaceXs different variations appears to be all over the place aluminum being the primary material with titanium and various steel alloys about even, followed by tungsten and copper. For simplicity let's say Starship has a surface area of threefalcon 9s. Using comparable carbon fiber aluminum total weight for hull and supports Under that comparison 18 tons. The Starship hull alone without the bfr is carrying 96 tons of skin. I am not 100 percent on this but, what are the so called prototypes pushing 6? (Supposedly upgraded merlin engines) and nearly 1/4th or more of the propellant required for falcon 9 Leo launch. Yet, have gotten a couple miles up and only briefly. (Though and not positive on this either, but to be fair I do remember hearing that the fuel used in at least the past couple test flights was a lesser quality/ richness/ or something than falcon actual launch. ) Regardless, If Elon gets his orbital test flight, I HAVE SERIOUS DOUBTS STARSHIP WILL REACH higher than the mesophehe and will waste more h3lium in that 1 launch attempt than all previous falcon 9 and heavy launches prior combined. Even if it does achieve orbit. It's still and empty shell.. that weighs over 20 tons more than fully equipped and launch ready shuttle enterprise. Even if bfr can achieve the high-end of thrust estimates. Less than a quarter is left with just the weight of structural components and reentry fuel. Life support components / water and rations on the shuttle consisted of 12 tons it's total weight and that was a crew of 5 or 6 . I could go on and on , but the simplest reason this is all b.s, elaborate Elon nonsense for his ego or distraction for what other crazy scam he is working on either way . The welds can be absolute perfection steel can take high heat and mantain integrity, but actually begins to lose formation at relatively low temperatures especially uneven Extremes. There is absolutely zero chance Starship will reentry atmosphere and be reusable and that's if it doesn't break up or collapse under its own weight if by a miracle it lands intact .

That's exactly what happened! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

😂😂😂

Building huge steel tanks is nothing new and are something that is done all the time for different industries.

They'll probably never make one as finished as the chicago bean , but i'm fairly certain they'll put in a little extra effort to make them mostly seamless once they reach a regular flight rate

You mean a bunch of texicans with grinders? 😁 Come polish my rocket for $7 an hour.

Why Rocketlab? They can build a carbon fiber rocket that wide?

@@vistaero Given the resources I think Rocketlab could develop a rocket that wide. Yes SpaceX could develop a carbon fiber superheavy on their own but I'd rather see a collaboration with Rocketlab and keep SpaceX focused on Mars. There is a need for private sector collaboration in the development of economical space. Unfortunately NASA is politically entrapped in the high cost pioneering era of space. Artemis is the wrong next step for many reasons, the next logical step for space is the development of economical space infrastructure (fully and rapidly reusable heavy lift rockets, standardize orbital refueling, remote and crewed stay-in-orbit transportation systems with full orbital access, a stay in orbit satellite service station, standardize modular satellite architecture designed for in space servicing, etc.). A new US government Space agency is needed (something similar to the Army Corps of Engineers) to lead the private sector in the competitive/collaborative development of a fully integrated self-sustaining space infrastructure. A great reference of the great potential of an integrated space infrastructure is the global economic impact of the standardize intermodal shipping container

carbon fiber is plastic that breaks down at 200 degrees. rocket engines are fire. thats why.

@@George-Francis and, carbon fiber structures tend to have brittle failure, rather than ductile failure. When they go, they go to *pieces.* I’m surprised they haven’t used spot-welding (a lot) more.

@@dennisyoung4631 Rocketlab is leading the development of carbon fiber rocketry. Their next larger fully reusable first stage is a carbon composite structure. Interesting company to follow to see if heat and brittleness is an issue as they developed the Neutron Rocket.

nice man i weld stainless for a living. mostly 304 and 409. gonna be doing it in 45 minutes

The largest part of the ship does not need radiation shielding, only the crew compartment needs it and some sensitive electronics might also. Steel doesn't really degrade that fast when exposed to cosmic radiation, so therefore it's a good material to use. The radiation in space is definitely higher but absolutely not chernobyl reactor type radiation. There's also different types of radiation such as alpha, beta and gamma radiation. Alpha and beta radiation are blocked by steel, but gamma can pass through but doesn't have that big of an effect, at least i think. Hopefully i answered your question.

💯💯 agreed!

Flux core is extremely common in US construction. Much more so than anywhere else.

@@jackmclane1826 Not for stainless it isn't. Like I said, stainless flux core is available but is typically used only for quick repairs in the field on non critical parts. Stick welding is significantly better than FC and then comes mig and tig.

@@amosbackstrom5366 Okay, OK I didn't know that. I have never used flux core for anything. It is much less common in Europe. I wouldn't say it's generally bad, but less common. I think the use here may be the result of that "quick and dirty" - sometimes called "agile" - development approach. Let's get started quickly and fix the problems on the go.

You can get decent looking welds with stainless flux core, but you really need to use a gas shielded process, which obviously can't be done outside because of wind blows away the shielding gas. The other problem is all the shrinkage / warpage you get when welding, especially with stainless.

@@jackmclane1826 I agree it's not generally bad, it certainly has its place and you can totally get good welds out of it. You can even get good welds with stainless, no problem for water towers. But the stress from holding a pressure (be it water weight in a tower or the pressure in a rocket fuselage) is a tiny fraction of the stress contained in a GOOD weld, we could be 20,000 psi+ of tension pulling your seam apart. This stress will always happen, it's because of the metal contacts when it solidifies. Submerged flux, bubbles or any other impurities allow cracks to start and they can propagate quickly if they experience cyclical temperature changes. A good rocket body is practically defined by it's ability to survive extreme changes in temperature. Friction "stir" welding is really good, it doesn't actually melt the metal, it's more like forging two pieces by stirring their edges together. Since no melting occurs there is very little stress.

Thanks! I just didn't find enough info on their custom alloy. I'm also curious to hear about it!

@@primalspace I kinda figured that was why. SpaceX is doing the opposite of what they normally do and are keeping that info close to their chest. Makes sense though, my ex father in law was the head metallurgist for the American arm of the Swedish company Sandvik up until he retired last year. He said that developing a new alloy is a typically a huge undertaking and involves mountains of tests, retests and process tweaking. Not only in the metal ratios mix, but the actual process used to make the alloy (like a cake recipe. Ie. Mix this before that, but only when the temp gets to x degrees, etc) and all the testing that certifies the material will do what it supposed too.

The 304L is a standard low carbon commercial Austenitic Stainless Steel, less corrosion resistant than type 316 but also much more versatile … 301 wasn’t a type we’d use in the trade in NZ. 308 was a good heat resistant Stainless found in Commercial Oven systems . I’m curious as to what Stainless steel will end up in the production Cybertruck. Personally I’d use 304 and electro polish the body when fully welded like we did for Marine Stainless Fittings … great protection and very bright but also a good surface to wrap if you wanted colour …

Tesla is using a non-standard alloy for their mega castings. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are developing a non standard stainless steel.

@@TamagoHead yeah we know they have developed their own custom stainless steel alloy for Starship and elon's already confirmed it. There just isn't a whole lot of information out there about its properties and characteristics.

They made a water tower fly and then land itself. I really don't think the focus was on getting the welding right at that point. Their philosophy has been "bonus points if it doesn't explode" from day one.

Right, because prototypes are ALWAYS meant to be made from the same material that the final product is shipped with. Genius!

They didn’t expect notch sensitivity at cryo

There is a process used when engineering a new concept. Fail often, fail cheap, fail fast. If success isnt build on failure then how can you know how you got there?

Its about the process

Thats also wrong, in FCAW you use a gas shielding and the flux creates a slag cover. Gas can med CO2 or M21 for example.

Yeah he’ll get it done to API standards which are just about the most forgiving pipe codes. Water storage is done to ansi awwa100-11 and although I have not read it, I would assume that it is much more strict than any pipeline code. Basically I doubt it was the quality of the individual welder in question and more an issue of process. To me, I would not use a human at all and would opt for a mechanical or automated process.

@@iansmith8944 well said, not only that, pipe hands are good but they move like Union workers. Most don’t cut it at SpaceX.

Certainly, FSW was used to weld some fuel tanks for previous nasa rockets’ fuel tanks. However, these tanks were aluminum, which is much easier to weld with this process due to it’s ductility and lower melting temperature, when compared to SS. SS can be welded with FSW, but it is extremely rare to see, and unheard of for a project of this scale,

Thanks! Keep doing what you do 😁

@@primalspace Will do! 😉

Coulda gotta clue from St Louis Gateway arch too!

Just a phone call and will these people come and work at Boca Chica, in the corner of Texas? Elon have been talking about robots laser welding plan as early as when they posted Star Hopper built. But, what is wrong with using hand weld for early prototype such as Star Hopper? Save money? SpaceX literally hired water tower builders. Star Hopper flew which prove it was good enough for early system component testing. Save time? Who do you think it is faster to hire? Some water tower builder or aerospace grade welder or robotic welder?

What so sad is you have no clue about how SpaceX rapid engineering works. A separate engineering team have been developing their own robotic laser welding from the beginning. In the mean time, they were also hiring skilled welders. Also, they just hired water tower builders. Water tower builders got there first and build Star Hopper tank. A few month later, skilled welders were hired, got there and hand-build early prototypes. The robotic welders got there at last about a year later. There is absolutely no waste of money, time or labor.

Most welding inspectors are useless, some of them cant even weld.

@@pickettmandi My best compliment came when I, as a non-certified welder, was told by a certified pressure vessel welder that there was no need for him to do the welds on a boiler when mine were better than his.

I guess all we can do is wait to see where things go from here! Onwards and upwards I hope!

@@primalspace I really want him to succeed though. It’s probably one of the only ways we can sustainably use spacecraft

I guess we just don't know what we don't know haha. Looking forward to seeing what happens with Starship next though!

@@primalspace for sure, it’ll be fun to watch

how? lmao

@@lewis0705 starship exploded

@@HDCairnsAviation yeh but that was expected lol

@@lewis0705 sure buddy

@Silas it was literally a launch test and it successfully launched. everything after that was a bonus and they expected it to explode

Thanks so much for watching! Really glad you enjoyed it!

😅😅😅