TheBigExclusive One is meant kindly. The other is not.

I wish Lal didn't die. It felt almost as unnecessary as Yarr's death.

@@BPond7in addition to the OP, ahh, yes. Fantastic.

@@sokoTV2 .Only her physical body failed, data downloaded her consciousness thoughts and memories into himself, essentially merging them, like tuvix.

@@aarongreenfield9038 agreed. Just dont even mention Tuvix... We don't do that here :DD

@fenrif You hade in the first half, not going to lie.

@fenrif lads, we've been rumbled!

@fenrif I appreciate the laugh but I really regret what Star Trek has become.

@fenrif Data being an android was modular, so I guess he could have been she on Thursdays.

@@godzilladestroyscities1757 A soulless violent woke centrist mess that since 2009 has abandoned humanism, mystery, awe, wonder, intrigue, actual science, and a hopeful vision for the future of humanity.

Kurtzman has ideas? prove it!

Yeah, but Data was unique. One of a kind. Which was the whole point. The androids in Picard aren’t the same as him. Not even the ones on that planet I can’t remember the name of.

@@Shadowkey392 he isn't one of a kind he has a brother, Lore.

Shadowkey392 data was unique because of his positronic brain not his body. Every material suited for robot construction is notably less punchable than a normal human

data was always adamant that he would trade all his super strength to be a real human. these new androids seem perfectly fine with just being war machines. new trek is absolute garbage.

@fenrif Nah, they clearly saw one or two of the TNG films. It's the only place they could have got the idea for Picard to be so obsessed over Data, like they were close comrades or something. (As a side note, its really obvious to me now that they _really_ wanted a Kirk/Spock type relationship between the two in those films, isn't it?)

It's more like "Hey you know what's popular? John Wick. Let's have a John Wick fight scene in Star Trek" except it's just really stupid.

But that figt scen sucks though. For 80s/90s tv show the fight scenes were fine. Picard though, its like the stunt co ordinator was some producers nephew or something. Or they just found a guy who can do flips and told him to make something up.

The same group that came up with a show idea and titled it “Star Trek: Enterprise”, not realizing that there was already a show with the exact same name.

Kurtzman watched Kirk fight the gorn and thought "I can do better, so I can make great Trek."

Dont you mean, "for the *Next Generation* " 😏

Can I join you.

You're not the only one.

I'm actually do it. Im gonna finish 2nd season now

Sounds nice. I'll be in mine too.

Trek peaked quickly and was in declide for a long time

Stewart wanted more input on how the movies would go and that was the result. The TNG movies being such a flop and Picard being so bad is due to, at least in part, his meddling. Actors cannot write. Let actors act, and writers write.

@@compmanio36 It seems nobody ever learnt from Star Trek V: William Shatner really wants to punch god

Way easier to destroy than even a t-800 though

@Maintenance Renegade Maybe, but the good is still hella good tho

Probably because he didn't want to break it

He wasn't stuck he didn't want to break it

He emulated the strengh of a human to understand how a human would get out of it

@@NitpickingNerd Name checks out

It was probably an antique

All those spin kicks makes it seem more like a show designed for teenagers on the CW. It could be too. Maybe that's what they're going for? Impressionable young minds with no money?

@@godzilladestroyscities1757 Kurtzman and JJ Abrhams simply need to hire some Writers who are willing to tell them their Story Direction is shit. They also seem to not really care about Small Details. Instead going for Big Fan Service Bullshit which falls on its head almost every time.

The only... only... only true matches for Data, besides Q, was Lore and Lal...physically in particular.

@@NestorCaster You're right of course about lore, he slipped my mind. They did have a few physical altercations in the show if memory serves.. Lal also would make sense because I think data made her almost identical to how he was designed.

Metazare Lore modified himself and gave himself battle armor too

Yeah, it's believeable with a future andriod. Rather than a man. No matter how buff you are picking up a car makes no sense. Not every super is magical so... Also how do they explain thin ass women doing those things lol?

@@Tokmurok my exact thoughts watching Jessica Jones, lol.

@@CourtneyCoulson Yeah, but Jessica Jones is a super-human. Like, her body having impossible strength is no different than say Spider-Man's body having impossible strength. (I know their source is different)

@@TheBlarggle The difference there is a conscious bias. It is more believable to see a tiny man have super strength than to see a tiny woman have super strength. Not really believable either way if you spend too much time thinking about it.

@@Tokmurok Huh? Same as Data they are Robots. There isn't sexual differences in Robots dude they are Metal and Circuits. Plus the Chick Robot is like 50 years more advanced.

lol. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j5-aZsuWvsClm2w.html

I imagine it playing out more like this kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jJaPdbh9yK67Y4k.html

Or like when Kenobi kicked Grevious.

The 'androids' in Picard weren't even really androids for the most part. Most of them were more artificially engineered human closed than 'Androids' Also that scene about one of them being able to do a Vulcan mind meld because they studied Vulcan culture was pure BS.

@@TheotherTempestfox I think their justification is that Data did the nerve pinch which kind of doesn’t make sense (I was under the impression it worked on a psychic basis) except when you consider data could probably easily squeeze hard enough to completely overwhelm any humanoid with pain to the point of passing out or rupture blood vessels to the point of putting them in a coma

Maybe 1 of the countless non-Star Trek sci-fi sources that Kurtzman stole from was Dragonball Z, in which androids were as stupid as everyone else in existence when it came to sitting back and letting all fights progress 1-on-1.

They actually tried to _kill all biological life_ too, at least for a while. Lore didn't seem to mind... I mean, not *Lore,* that was totally Dr.Soong's biological son, _that_ makes _perfect sense._

They apparently all had bluetooth disabled for better battery life lmao

@@TheRPGenius The androids from DBZ were actually cyborgs, though, except for maybe 19 and 16. And going by the lore, in Future Trunks' timeline, 17 and 18 could never be defeated, because they always worked together so they couldn't be overpowered. In that sense, the DBZ "androids" are smarter and better than the STP dunces.

@@rouninpanda6318 You're sleeping on my boy Eighter

They Could Watch Terminator 2 if they have any questions.

lool, doin flip look like flying tho, loool

@Jimmy De'Souza He's fighting androids.

@@cattraknoff Are they real androids though? Or are they the Borg wet dream that is the flesh and blood Soji and Lal?

@@myrddinemrys1332 And Kurtzman's team has taken this without reflections....without thinking about the speeches behind blade runner....and it shows, because if this super-synthetic life form, eliminates the biological life, as they are biological (we can see it with the Golem), it means that they will be destroyed, the borgs too ! What made this finale ridiculous in my opinion was this detail of their big stupid threat! They are enhanced, biological creations, that can be seen with the Golem: it looks like a clone of Judge Dredd (the movie with Stallone).....but at no time do we see cybernetic elements: which is ridiculous because Data explains it at various moments: they are artificial, cybernetic, they have nothing biological. ...as opposed to Maddox's synthetics, which are more like the delusion of perfection that Dr. Arik Soong dreamed of with his augmented ones.... basically, they have taken over Blade Runner, without understanding its meaning, nor why the human/android boundary was destroyed to make them biological in the movie..... simply because the movie Blade Runner talks about human, about how we can take away the humanity of individuals because they are born artificially, cybernetically and biologically improved (so improved) .... but they are not real Androids, they are called that way because it allows them to have the public opinion against them: they say it in the movie: nothing allows to differentiate a human from a "replicant", except the lack of empathy. ...why? because they are biologically human.....so if we follow the same logic with STP, the Synthetics are biologically improved humans......broadly speaking, nothing to do with Androids, but they tried a good repompage of Blade Runner, without understanding anything of the movie.

Lol

Data’s stunt double is the strongest man/android in the universe

Exactly. I don't care if you have space wizards with magical powers, but you'd better decide up front how those magical powers work, and keep them consistent throughout your show/movie. Picard takes everything we've learned about the Trek universe in 30 years of media and says "Nah, fuck that, this is how things work now." And not even in a way where it's consistent from episode to episode in that series.

Totally agree. I'd go one step further to say for any story regardless of genre to work, it must remain consistent within its established boundaries.

Exactly and for another example Fallout the game series has really disappointed me because 3, 4, and 76 just basically said "oh yeah remember all those large and significant events from the other games? well fuck those, and fuck you" you can't just do that when since the first game on things have been certain way, it completely ruins immersion and belief

Someone explained the difference between Fantasy and Sci-Fi. In Fantasy basically anything is impossible. the "rules" are actually more of a guide and you can be anything basically. In Sci-Fi you are set rules that cannot be broken. ST: Picard is basically a fantasy.

Scotty: "The disbelief suspension bubble is at critical levels. She can't take much more of this!" Kurtzman: "I'm proud to announce a new Star Trek series, Strange New Worlds." *Engineering explodes*

Should of? What does that mean?

nah, you can defeat them with dancing

Why would you even try and punch an android in the face, we only punch to the head because that is where our brain is, and our brains and skulls are relatively fragile, to do that against an android is literally possible, the only possible way to beat an android would be in finding a way to restrict its movement

I always thought Data was grinning like that because he was trying (too hard) to seem less intimidating. "Do not fear me. I am kind and friendly!" Figured that some humans, prior to Data arriving on Enterprise, had expressed fear at his strength and when he needed to use that strength, he over-compensated when smiling...that was over the top and did indeed look a little psychotic. 😂 Don't know how much was scripted and how much was Spiner, but over time one does see the character more polished.

Yes. They have discovered the power of the Force. Soon, Star Trek will begin incorporating Midichlorians into its lore... which actually wouldn't seem at all out of place at this point.

@@BioGoji-zm5ph part of the mushroom network

"i will try spinning"

That's not necessarily a bad thing in and off itself. :P

No need to insult Power Rangers like that, my man.

Considering *Spoiler* The Red Ranger in Operation Overdrive was in fact an android

@@LeeroyPorkins Y'know, funnily enough, I always thought Megaforce Red would be revealed to be some kind of android, too, on account of his actor's wooden, lifeless portrayal. :v

It looks like something from any number of shows none of which are star trek.

Its a taxi

Super strength doesn't make you super heavy. Unless Data was able to brace against some other strong or very heavy object (besides the ground), the car would still be able to move him back, as he weighs far less than the car.

Nah, it should be lore, I can't imagine data ripping people apart

@@eta_carithebrightlord3396 true, he was the evil one. Only said data cuz he uses his arm pretty much every episode. And iuno I could totally see data as a killer. Even in this clip where he grabs the one guys arms ... he could have kept going and just folded his arms behide him then right after when he grabs the next dude by the chest and lobbs him across the room. He didn't have to, he could have just broke thru his rib cage and pulled out a still beating heart

0:55 Just pitcher this seen a little less PG 13 and a bit more R

That's why it ain't cannon

Data was also a "one of a kind" design of Soong.

I think the argument could be made that you're looking at different decades here. Think 60s vs 90s. Tech changes over time. At the time of TNG, Android tech was in its infancy and Data struggled with being a prototype android - there's even an episode where his creator creates an emotional chip for him but dies before he can install it. In Picard, it's decades later, and so you're exploring a universe where Android tech has progressed a ton. It's like comparing computers decades apart, yes the ones in the future will be way better.

That said, I totally agree Picard flies in the face of what made Star Trek what it was. It has NEVER been about the violence, violence has only ever been used when it made sense, to add gravity to a situation. Even then, almost every time it ends up being the threat of violence and not the real thing. Look at how many times TNG climax has them facing a hostile ship where they might have to destroy each other, and how almost every time Picard finds a diplomatic solution. Violence in Star Trek shouldn't be spectacle.

It's odd because they made them pass for human when scanned, etc, and show the girl leaping really far, yet make the rest of them weak. that can only be bad writing

the golem is biological lifeform (hack from BR the movie), no cybernetic lifeform

Not really as they are shown to be stronger like the easy neck snap of the worker from Utopia Planitia or the what her name android able to jump over 80ft. It was just TNG was more consistent while Picard was the plot. If they have their main characters fight them at all, they are super weak. If they have to show their strength, then they are super strong and fast

@@raw6668 The A500s are the work of Maddox, they were Androids but not conscious. It is after the "failure" that Maddox fled from Starfleet to visibly continue his work alone (allegedly). And Data has as much power as the A500, maybe less because we understand that the A500 were created for a specific purpose: work in dangerous areas and heavy work. ...Data and Lore were not created for this purpose...but STP is very illogical and random....if you think too much about the logic of the STP scenario, it breaks down. ...Just the existence of Altan is a big problem of coherence: that Arik and Noonian Soong look alike: it was possible: almost 300 years separated them but here we are talking about Soong's "SON".... which is equivalent to qualify Altan as a Clone, not as a natural son of Noonian (especially since they admitted he was not Julianna's son, and if Altan is the same age as Spiner: he was born right at the moment of Soong's wedding. ...or even a little bit after....which gives another reading of his words in Inheritance...and makes him totally irresponsible, hypocritical and liar....And gives reason to Lore in "Brothers").....Only for Altan's Synthetics: when we see the fight, technically they shouldn't even have flinched, but they are not cybernetic beings but enhanced individuals, biological creations: the Golem proves it by far. ...just like the "twins"...who by the way are not Data's "daughters", but Maddox/Altan....rien's explanation on positrons fall down: it's like hoping that the electrons of our PC will give back the lost data of our computer: if they have a scientific adviser, the guy is like the historical adviser on 300: he was used to make a pretty face and he was given a scene to make it look

@@nikitazkolibri5560 The writing is a major problem with the show, as they are not consistent. I would not mind if as much if it was different from the series. Otherwise, I would be a hypocrite since they change things in the TNG era compared to the Orginal series, such as the Klingons or technology. Things need to be updated to keep the story consistent as they could do things with better technology or technique. Not to mention, we have a better understanding of things and realize that things need to change to consist of true science or make them stand out better. The problem is they are not consistent within STD or Picard, for both show that it is very much a case of the power of the plot, if not by how awesome it is. And not even we made a new procedure or new technology to get out of a jam like the old series that is consistent with their technology. It is, as you said, unless you look at it with mindless fun, you won't have fun, for it really pushes the audience's acceptance of disbelief in the nth degree. The fact the writing is not written with a timeless way of speaking or even their own slang hurts it more than anything.

*U* think *I'D* rather give you these extra letters...

Because they don't understand that the "Androids" of Blade Runner are Augments, not androids: in the movie, they are humans, an augmented biological creation: It's easier to make people believe that we are killing "machines" than artificially created humans, like the Augments of Star Trek. This would explain some things: the fickle physical strength of synthetics, the fact that they can die from a fork in the eye, bleeding ect.... they are not Cybernetic beings, they are not Androids, they are Augments, biologically advanced beings, improved via cybernetics: Cyborgs at the limit...but not Androids! The movie Blade Runner takes this side to destroy the border with the human, precisely because it asks the question, at the same time on the Ethics but also on the humanity of such a creation.

@Billy William Blade Runner

@Billy William Not Cyborg, not biological humanoides

@Billy WilliamSynthetics are not biological beings, they are creations made of silicon, they are androids totally, nothing to do with the improved biological creations of Blade Runner, which can reproduce with humans, and therefore are human, CQDF. If we look at the background of Blade Runner, we create human beings, living, calling them "Androids" with what it implies (being considered as a machine because they live only 6 years and have superior physical abilities), in order to hide that the only and last resource used is human....(Blade Runner depicts a world where the resources are so exhausted, that they force the departure to the outer colonies). This absence of the androids was a big drawback to K. Dick's novel, but it implies an interesting reflection in the movie. The only problem is that the director has obviously never understood what the writer of the script wanted to express.... in view of his outbursts on the subject of Deckard. The famous synths of soong are like the "Replicants" of Blade Runner or the Clones of Judge Dredd: Totally biological, which is a nonsense towards Data.

@Billy William Les Synthetiques d'Alien sont des Androides, ils n'ont rien de biologique, ils reproduisent des éléments biologiques, mais ils ne sont pas biologique: il faut différencier définitivement cette composante, chose que le film de Blade runner a raté justement et qui lui a été fortement reprochés a l'époque. Les synthetiques d'Alien ont un fonctionnement qui ressemblent a une entité biologique mais il n'en est rien: ils leur faut une maintenance tout les 4-6 ans, sinon ils dégènèrent physiquement et idem de leurs puces mémorielles qui commencent a avoir des problèmes sans maintenance informatiques. biological is not cybernetics.... What is black goo? The entities of Blade Runner are biological, but nothing is explained in the film on how or from what. But it is said in the movie that they are indistinguishable, except psychologically and empathically, from a human, so that means they are genetically indistinguishable from humans: so they are humans.

I always assumed the humans winning was more based on technique, sort of in the way that a smaller human with practiced technique can take down a human of much greater physical strength, like despite the Klingons being a warrior race they seemed to fight based more on emotion and sheer violence (except for worf, who had the practiced technique of humans.) Beating Vulcans only really makes sense through guile (which of course, we’ve seen used to expert effect in star fleet) but an android of data’s capabilities should be able to easily defeat any humanoid, even 10 at a time, given his improved strength speed dexterity and mental speed. An android would be able to simply think and move too fast to ever face any danger from a single humanoid

@@Pepesmall technique wont help against 3x stregnth unless they have a massive iq difference too

Vulcans are stronger physicly then klingons humans are weaker then both those races i dont know about romulans they always seem to weak on all the series

@@gabrielfranco1899 considering they are usually villains, they have to be depicted weaker since they fight a lot with the good guys. Vulcans are almost never seen in fights against the crew

(Human + metal pipe)>Vulcan. I at least know this much

It's gotten to the point where whenever the cast and crew of any production goes on interviews or social media and begins begging for the audience to "give it a chance" my immediate reaction is to think it's going to be terrible.

Wait wait wait, he really said that??

@@dolomighty74 Yep! He did, during a panel for... I don't remember, but it's in pretty much every review of the show. Including RLM.

ah thanks for the comparison/context. thought it was a technobabble term.

@@worldweaver2691 if you don't know what bars are you're just ignorant

How would data's strength compare to a kryptonians or alara kiten from the orville

​@@chrishague8759 no idea who the kitten is but Superman aka the kryptonian is extremely overpowered in modern versions. You know originally he couldn't even fly, he just jumped like the hulk

@@kg4boj no never knew that about superman being overpowered. What about data's strength against lou ferringos incredible hulk version

Sounds like this guy hasn't heard of Star Trek: Discovery.

Was there ever any doubt?

@@michaeljones1686 STD is better than Picard

Not been paying attention to current events, I see.

a lot of picard was pretty good. the ending was a little messy but that's a common problem.

"...stop it... sTop IT! STOP STOP STOP *STOP* !" basically all trekkies rn

I just realized you had to say "was." I'm gonna cry again. ;n;

*Look up "Star Trek: Picard making Bunnicorn Pizza" on KZfaq and you will see where the majority of the show's focus went into.* :)

True, but the point still stands.

In the same episode Soong says they are virtually identical except in programming.

What episode is this? I've seen TNG all the way through many times and I don't remember that scene in any of the episodes.

@@compmanio36 I think it should be season 4 episode 3. I can give you a synopsis, but if you hadn't watched that episode that would not be nice.

compmanio36 I believe the episode is called "Brothers." It's the episode where Soong activates Data's homing beacon so Data completely takes over the ship, owning the crew in the process, and heads to wherever Soong is. Of course, Soong had no idea Lore had been reassembled and so was summoned by his beacon as well.

Nobody has reliably been able to explain that.

W.A. Mozart Probably Kurtzmans idea of reinforcing the point how they are "just as alive, buts its synthetic life!", without that the whole "plot" of synthetics vs biological life wouldn't even exist, so Kurtzman just decided to make AI, androids, and robots all part of the same "faction", the "synthetics".

Because someone jokingly told Kurtzman that he'd have to pay royalties to Google, and he actually bought it.

In "Relics", Scotty said "synthetic commanders" when referring to Data. So, for me, this is not an issue.

Because its the in thing to call them synths, because reasons. Probably something to do with the 80's.

I forgot to include a scene in Insurrection when Data lifts a huge rock

Nooooooooooo. He's a softie who likes cats and paintinggggggggggg

@@Squib-kb2tn and then he snaps necks and completely obliterates the borg. He also pulls the borg queen into acid. But sometimes he can be a “softie”

Even so, you would imagine that they weren’t made from cardboard? 😂 one backhand and they fall like a pack of cards

Nice theory, not in the show. Seriously what sentient cabbage thought a romulan kicking android butt was a good idea?

In this case it really doesn't matter since they are physically identical

Since data & lore obviously have the same physical strength, i know it doesn't matter, I didn't say it did but either way its still good acting from the actor who played the characters

You're talking about sentient robots. Those robots that became sentient. And data made an argument for them. But data was the only one of his kind. Aside from I guess B4. All other robots didn't magically be considered a sentient thing. They still were TRYING to make another data. It wasn't about how they looked. It was about how they were as a being. Those robots were still JUST robots. And as JUST robots...they destroyed a lot of shit. It makes sense that they were used as just very capable robots... because that's what they were. They weren't on the level of data or those robots that became sentient..that he made an argument for. They were just following orders and doing their job just as any other computer. So..not slaves. Now maybe the sentience sparked...but they fucked shit up..so then it was safe to just say HALTto all the attempts. Because then there would be another risk of such magnitude.

I RELATE TOO MUCH TO YOUR COMMENT

Probably, an overwhelming force of Borg drones, augments and… maybe greek gods :v

I would wager much more than twice Khan's strength.

@@THall-vi8cp How so? Khan was tossing guys around like rag dolls just like Data. The Augments in Star Trek were kicking Klingons down entire corridors with one hit. In Wrath of Khan, old Khan lifts a piece of the bridge's ceiling supports which would weigh thousands of pounds. I would say the only thing that gives the edge to Data was him holding back that taxi car with one hand. 10 times seems a good ballpark.

@@charzanboo9940 Super Humans have the Upper Limit of Physical Human Strength. Which is no where near the ability to bend a bar of metal like Data did.

@@ExecutiveChefLance Tell that to Sherlock Holmes.

lmao. They learned it in the Mirror Universe in Discovery and Spock's Half Cousin Billo left a message for Picard explaining it.

Data hit him so hard, he spun in the opposite direction!

Woke AND gay. What a combo. XD