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"if you were successful then you wouldn't be teaching" is an attitude that comes from a completely broken education system. "Those who cant do, teach" still permeates our culture because teaching is looked down upon as something less important, like the real work is being done by the rockstars while the little leagues go teach the new guys. Teaching is a legitimate and extremely important profession for our society. Literally everything that we have today, everything that separates us from cavemen, is because of humans passing down knowledge to eachother and finding new and more effective ways of doing so. No breakthrough would mean anything if it that information wasnt effectively disseminated, and we can see that throughout history with examples like how the beginnings of calculus was invented hundreds of years before we thought it was, but it was lost to history until after it was later reinvented. It is perfectly valid for someone who *is* successful to want to pass their knowledge on so that others can use it and learn from it. Finding ways to disseminate your knowledge and find ways to more effectively educate new generations is a very important and respectable skill.

You know your life has hit rock bottom when your on reddit sending death threats to an indie game developer for making a game you don't like.

U guys should get like 2 more people and start a podcast

David Wehle and Thomas Brush talking together about gamedev... Literally the best thing ever

Dad game developers. Man, I just discovered you guys on youtube, and I gotta say, as a father of four and hobbyist game developer (working with my oldest son on games), you guys discussing the family balance with your development is both helpful and heartwarming. It's very encouraging. Thank you.

You both should Collab and make a wonderful game

Man, this talk just makes me feel so good that I'm not the only one who's just grinding all day long.

This video is basically David Wehle and Thomas Brush fangirling over eachother for an hour and 40 minutes.

I failed early, I failed late, I'm still failling, but here I am, doing what I love

This is hands down one of the most useful and transparent conversations around game development and content creation I’ve seen in so long. Thank you so much for doing this guys.

2 very talented game devs having a conversation.. love it! Keep up the great work guys!

To be honest, this is the first hour and a half of the interview/show on KZfaq that I don't feel bored at all. It is just pure goodness to me as I am in the process of learning to make a game myself too.

This was such a treat for me. My two favs just talking about game Dev and their journey. Thank you guys I loved this. I am now taking a look at my bank balance and seeing if I can afford the course which I so want to do. Thank you guys. I don't know why you guys don't work together bringing more into the course. You guys would make a wonderful team

Media: “Avengers is the greatest crossover of all time” Thomas Brush: “hold my ice tea”

Unity is like : i am such a proud father look at those two cute developers 🙏

I’ve been dying to hear a convo like this between two creators. Thank you guys amazing.

David is probably one of the most inspiring figures to me right now in the indie industry. I relate to him so much and his situation, and it's awesome to hear his story and how he goes about game dev.

Sat through the whole podcast. Did not disappoint. I learned so many things, thank you both so much! Heading over to David’s channel right now, love the vids you two make!

I have less than 30 days developing my first 2 games and 1st anddroid app. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your youtube channel. Thank you Thomas! and I also subscribedd to Daves channel too. I 'll be watching alot of your content from now on. Take care guys.

Two big inspirations sharing their ideas and struggles is just invaluable.

Two of my favorite devs. Thank you for such an awesome talk. Really congrats on never song. I was so happy to see it do well, because it was clear you put so much work in to it.

14:45 "...What separates the great developers from the failed ones" Thank you for that insight; this question is one that hounds me incessantly, I am relish every opportunity to hear someone's thought on what separates the two.

Finally! I have been waiting for you two to do something like this!

There was so much positivity in this ( alongside the advice on how to be balanced); it really got in my feels. At the beginning one of you were saying that you're not 'cool' at all. Well, cool isn't the only thing that people are drawn to; a lot of people are drawn to people who come across as genuine, honest etc. You both seem to give off that vibe. I really enjoyed this and although I have no aspirations of being a game dev, I found it motivational in terms of other areas in life; just all round reasonable advice. Thank you!

It's so cool that you made this clip. Best collaboration on youtube, we want more...

Great podcast, definitely enjoyed this and the long form discussion gives a great look into type of work your both doing!

wow crazy how you are promoting his course and his channel like that. u r a really good guy bro.

The way both of your lighting and camera focus matches is really visually appealing.

So glad to have you guys :) will always be watching and learning

Thanks for these videos, they really are inspirational. I am currently spending any spare time watching both you and David and leaning Unity. your videos are pumping me up ready to start making games this year. Love your work.

I just started working on my own game, and this has been one of the most helpful videos I've seen. Thanks to the both of you!

This talk was VITAL! Thank you both so much for sharing your knowledge and expertise! Really appreciate it cos I am in exactly this boat trying to complete my first game and push it out! Loving your channels and your content!

It's really cool to see people who went through what my brother and I went through for a few years. I see that you have a family and have a normal job during development, and I know that it is much more difficult to gain financial autonomy to quit your job and focus on game development. My brother and I are almost able to quit our jobs, we aim to do this by the end of the year, but for that to happen, there have been years and years of frustrated projects and nights of work with almost no feedback. In the end, I believe that whoever works and dedicates a lot, will realize the dream. Congratulations on the work you do, it encourages many people to start and continue with development.

Watching this again afyer a year. I love hearing about game development and the passionate story of devs. I go out of my way to find and experience these amazing indie games. I love games truly pushing boundaries and bringing the medium to an even higher level. Not just AAA has that ability. Triple A stagnates more than anything. Along with many other goals in life I hope to make a few games myself one day.

I listened to this like a podcast, a little every day. Great video, very insightful; I've since purchased The First Tree and Pinstripe (came here with Neversong). Thank you guys for sharing!

This is easily my favorite video of yours. Would be addicted to a podcast if you made one

I love his GDC talk! So cool! I used assets to start my current game~ (But i have edited them heavily to make them my own! and added equally my own) DO THESE SOME MORE!!!!!

You two are so chill together, could watch you all day long :)

Thank you both for sharing this amazing long form content. So much good stuff here. 😊❤

You guys are so truthful and inspiring, super interesting, and not only for people that want to create games but for anyone who wants to start there own business, thanks to you both.

Being a musician - around the 45 min mark hit a note. Something I learned about recording and making a record at home, you gotta have the end in mind and focus on completion. The first record we did took months to finish - not because it wasn't all recorded, but because I was paying waay too much attention on the minute details (compression, reverbs, eqs, etc). But if I just hunkered down and just focused on the finish line, I would have saved at least a month if not alot more of my life if I just released it. I guess maybe I feared what people experienced in the field would pick apart all those details. But most people will actually just be proud of you for simply putting out a finished product. Stop caring about what people think, follow a step by step timeline, launch it, and move on to the next project.

Fun conversation. I love the comments about the asset flipping. Gives me confidence to finish a game that will require them due to budget constraints.

Great talk I needed to hear. Right now i wake up at 6am so i can work on games for 2h before going to work. I realised I am most productive in the morning so, no other way. Love your success stories, you clearly went through the struggles and frustrations but came out on top.

I feel so inspired listening to David Wehle talk and I have such admiration and respect for his character. I hope that I can also combine my desire to help people/make the world a better place with my passion for game development in the same way he did! Thanks to Thomas and David for this fantastic discussion, I feel that I've learned so much!

Very inspiring talk guys! I have been watching both your channels while developing my own little game which is dedicated to my daughter. I have been wondering about marketing and publishing, and all the hints help a lot. Luckily I have a very stable day job though to keep providing for the family, so no stress! Just wished more people would play it haha! Keep up the videos guys!

Every minute of this was worth my time, thank you for putting this together!

Thank you so much for doing this! It is so uplifting and insightful. Inspiring people and encouraging them to life fuller lifes is such a great thing to do!

Loved this. You should do more podcast type things like this!

In ten or twenty years from now, when a new generation of indie developers gives a Ted talk or interview I'm 100% sure they will reference THIS exact video/interview. It's the most transparent and informative conversation between devs I've heard. Thank you!

This is one off the best game dev video on youtube and al internet...., must usefull advaice....keep going guys and good luck with your next projects!!!

Great Video guys! Really appreciate the time you have taken to share your knowledge, experiences and yourselves with us all! I hope I can justify your effort by learning and growing & hope oneday to share with you both something that I have created from your influence!

Awesome videos Thomas Brush, thank you for making these!

2 creators who are an inspiration to me in one video. My heart just melted away. 💖 I'm Crying it's like they know me and who Iam and they know my struggles. Their words are so relatable.

On using assets from the asset store, I wish I could remember who's video it was but I watched a guy take a 5 or 6 frame run animation from the asset store and re-draw it with his original character by tracing the poses over a run cycle illustration from a book I have on my shelf from back when I thought I needed a degree in animation. The result was brilliant looking and clean and changed my paradigm on what it means to use assets from the asset store.

"You gotta just start finishing stuff" is kind of along the lines of, "you can't win if you don't play." Very true! I've been working solo on a game that's a passion project of mine for a few years off and on (with a full-time job), and I also am raising a growing family. I've been trying to focus only on developing what's essential for the game and playing to my strengths, because that's all I have time for, but it's still difficult to see the path forward to an end. I know that, no matter what happens or whether anyone likes my game, I will be satisfied with the finished product, because I won't let myself release it without ensuring that it is in fact a complete game, even though it can't meet the standards I would like to meet with it (after all, I'm not a triple A game studio). It's encouraging to hear about how important it is to just finish a game, and this video is motivating me to take concrete steps to achieve that. I'd rather fail now than later, and better to fail than never try!

This is so excellent. I will be watching this quite a few times. I belong to both of their programs and they are each wonderful and worth it for anyone who really wants to become a game dev. They are both good teachers.

I'm a complete novice who decided to try and make my own game for fun and I'm so happy to have found both of these guys. They help to remind me that it is indeed possible to release my own game I just got to work hard.

didn't know him, now already following! two awesome devs that help the horde! tnx to both!!!

I'm Super excited to start my journey making my game. I just bought a Wacom One that will be at my house on Thursday. Can't wait! Your videos have inspired me thanks Thomas.

That whole billable rate comment really really helped me out. It just messed up the way I think about how I spend my time now. Yeah we obsesse over the weirdest little things. Thank you!

Honestly watching you guys videos while making my game keeps me going and motivated

Appreciate the convo, thanks guys

Great video with so many nuggets of wisdom in it! Thank you!

I watched to the end; thank you, very informative.

You Thomas and David are both awesome people. You both inspire me. I worked 10 years in the game industry for large game companies. I am making my first indie game. My first game that is my idea and design. It has a freeing feeling. So thank you for the content you put out. Thank you for your KZfaq videos. Keep going strong!

Great conversation between two smart indie devs. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

Thank you so much for this inspiring video!! I really enjoyed it and as an aspiring game developer, I'm so glad for the advice.

Oh, you two are the cutest, I love how open you are about your process and I can relate to so many things you are talking about. Thanks for all the great insights! ^.^

This man right here is a genuine good guy. Keep up the good work!

First of all amazing videos Thomas!! Both of you are so inspiring, Just a question did u animate the hanging vines in your game Neversong? or did you use a shader? Thank you for your awesome videos and time i cant wait to finish my game!

This was such a great chat guys! Very insightful. As I'm about to delve into the journey that is fatherhood myself, I'm so glad to hear you guys talking about successfully doing the thing WHILE being good dads. Cheers!

36 minutes in he comments on diversifying income...This is why I don't think you should have killed your Patreon...You may be good now, but there's no guarantee that will last long enough to get to your next completed project...I have no idea if you really benefit much from it, but my personal opinion is to keep as many revenue streams going as possible. Even if you end up with millions in the bank doing nothing, you have no idea what could happen 10 years from now where you might need that cushion. Just my perspective.

Wow! Thanks for that video. It nearly feels like I'm in a room with you in this discussion about game development and entrepreneurship. I hopefully will some day achieve what you did.

I am too much of a perfectionist in my projects. I like these kind of videos because it's kind of a practical slap in the face that that thing I'm spending 2 hours modeling is probably not going to be noticed by most players. Sometimes I feel like I'm being too ambitious and I get overwhelmed and want to quit. This was very inspiring. Whether or not I end up making any money off of it, the process is what I love about it - the world building and storytelling. Thank you for the advice.

I just watched the first trees trailer..what a gorgeous looking game! Those soft pastel colours!!

I see using assets as this. First they were made to be used. I have characters I sell because I dont plan on using them but I hope someone does. So as a creator I think we can all agree, we make our stuff to be used, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Secondly, its like buying an apple. Then turning that apple into an apple pie and sell the recipe. Do you feel bad you didnt grow the apple or any of the ingredients yourself? No, cuz you cant do it all. Its just not logical. Somewhere you have to compromise because if you try to do it all then you are either going to only make 1 of your ideas come true or you will get frustrated with the parts you dont know well and dont like to do and just quit. Which is selfish cuz then no one can enjoy your idea now you selfish prick. lol -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hearing how he used assets really does quell my own fears of using assets. Not just being known as an asset flipper or getting sued but I fear not being able to say I made everything. The game is truly mine cuz I did it all. When in reality to truly have that title I would need to create the programs I am using too. So its good to hear this from someone who has succeeded.

Great conversation, thank you 👍🏻

I'm a Game Dev and Cartoon animator and a fan of Thomas and this was a great podcast yall should do this more often! I loved it

My two favorite developers in the same video?? YES PLEASE

loved this video would actually like to see some sort of podcast like this continue

Thanks for this, some really good stuff here!

Great conversation, learned and agree with so much of this

Great interview! Thanks fellas

Man such an honest talk. Really loved it !

I watched the whole conversation and I identify with a lot of what you guys have said Thanks for this :)

I was thinking why don't you both collaborate and make an amazing game... I'm certain it will do great!!!

as a 13 years old game developer I always felt like my games are bad and, maybe it's just because I work with unity for 6 months but those 6 months felt like 6 years, I learned so much and I still learning every day so much stuff and, as one that has awful art skills and 0 pre-knowledge or pre expirience my games always felt bad especially now when I working on my first big game and I always feel like no matter how much I will progress in my huge Trello board, the game will never be fun or good.

This is a awesome format Thomas.

Wow this is really encouraging! I am an 18 year old game developer and your videos are very helpful. I am currently making a game with 0$ and I like very much how its going.

Also deved for 3 years on my second game xD After 3 days on steam released I got 18 copies sold and a couple of heart attacks. Fail fast and make more games is a very important advice in this video. I got lucky to get covered by a bigger youtuber past weeks and people liked it and bought it, a good push in the right direction :)

You can't stop the spirit of freedom in these guys hearts!

When David said “when you’re single and no kids that’s the season to start as a game dev”. Thank the lord that I’m both of those right now. Lol

1:35:00 In my opinion David Wehle created one of best, if not the best game dev youtube channel that is currently available on youtube. So it makes sense to me that he got those amazing numbers so fast. I really enjoy seeing that meritocracy still sometimes work on youtube and good creators are able to break trough the noise.

Great job, guys. Thanks a lot!

Guys, what a fantastic conversation. Inspiring to all of us creating our own games and trying to make a living out of it. Not even be millionaires, but to make an honest living paying our debts.

1:02 yey! i am not the only person who drinks water with a jar :D

see indie game developer support and respect each other are very mindblowing my game was back in 2005, a 2d racing game and i share it for free in a forum.

Best combo of creators!

34:00 hit me hard :/ I feel the same thing: I look forward to days off so that I can work on the game continously. Especially coding is hard after a long day at work... maybe asset creation is something that I can do, but not the hard but important tasks.