How to Calculate Position Size & Lot Size in Forex

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How to Calculate Position Size & Lot Size in Forex

Рет қаралды 84,848

Күн бұрын

How to calculate position size in forex trading ? Here's a video on forex lot size explained to teach you how to determine lot size and what is position size in trading. It is an important part of money management forex.
Position sizing forex is a tricky thing because you need to take care of your trading position size even though you might have the best forex trading system. Your forex trading lot size or trading position size is going to determine whether you become profitable in forex trading or not.
A lot of people know how to buy and sell but don't know how to determine lot size and how to calculate position size in forex trading, which is why they end up not profitable despite having a proven forex trading system.
You need to determine you forex position size before you even buy or sell. Your forex position sizing will help you keep your risk constant. Which is why i want to share with you the forex position size calculator formula to help you properly calculate your position size or lot size.
I will also share with you what is position size in trading and the common mistakes the forex traders make when it comes to determining their position size trading forex.
Use this formula everytime you calculate your forex trading lot size or forex position size. Your lot size in forex trading will make or break your strategy.
Money management forex is a very important aspect of trading and should not be neglected.
Disclaimer:
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Singapore youtuber profile:
Karen is Singapore Forex trader, Singapore motivational speaker, Singapore youtuber, Singapore vlogger , author and was ranked #1 in a Singapore nationwide Forex trading contest.
This trader vlog showcases the trading lifestyle and entrepreneurship life, plus weekly motivation for those that are not traders.
It's also a Singapore vlog where most of the shots are done in Singapore. She will also be bringing you around the island to explore Singapore.
Karen is a motivational speaker based in Singapore and Malaysia and delivers talks that touches the heart of her audience members.
She is a motivational speaker that is well sought after by many schools and event planners as she is known for solving several teenage problems as she has experienced many setbacks as a teenager back then.
Email: karen@karen-foo.com
Website: www.karen-foo.com
Facebook: / karenfoospeaker
Instagram: / imkarenfoo
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Music Credit:
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• How to Calculate Posit... Disclaimer:The content here is for informational purposes only and should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice. It does NOT constitute an offer or solicitation to purchase any investment or a recommendation to buy or sell a security. In fact, the content is not directed to any investor or potential investor and may not be used to evaluate or make any investment.Investing and trading is a high risk activity and should be approached with caution. I am not a certified financial advisor. Hence, it is important for you to seek a certified financial advisor to craft your portfolio.

Пікірлер: 238

@KarenFoo 6 жыл бұрын

P.S. That thing on my nose is not a booger.... it just so happens that my skin on my nose peeled that day and if i plucked it away it's gonna get bleed and it's gonna be painful. I tried but it hurts. I have dry skin often due to my swimming commitments. Could you please ignore that shit for now :)

@KarenFoo 6 жыл бұрын

Ibrahim. The key thing is the formula and the 2 common mistakes to avoid

@KarenFoo 6 жыл бұрын

Christopher. Lol who doesn’t ?

@SortoutGeneration 5 ай бұрын

Karen thank you so much just wish I can meet you in person

@AuntiePerspective 2 жыл бұрын

Out of all the content I've been watching, this is the FIRST time I have seen anyone show how to properly CALCULATE position size. Thank you!

@Koldyfuego 3 жыл бұрын

I recently started following you and I have to say your content is priceless, so organised, simple Just how it should be. Thanks Karen for such good free content.

@martinettenes1789 4 жыл бұрын

Having seen many video's, I can honestly say: Yours are the best ...

@KarenFoo 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for making my day

@bellaolum9768 3 жыл бұрын

I agree 💯☑️

@joshuarobert85 3 жыл бұрын

I'm a beginner in trading but I'm so glad I came across your channel. I don't think I've meet anyone who explains it better. Thank you Karen

@asb2608 5 жыл бұрын

serious value in this video that i had absolutely zero clue about before and the best thing is this video is FREE what a time to be alive. thank you karen.

@KarenFoo 5 жыл бұрын

You're welcome. Grateful people like to makes the world better :)

@atelierstudios7761 4 жыл бұрын

This is the defining definition of managing emotions!!!! It is imperative, that traders learn THIS! Risk management with lot size helps regulate attitude and also keeps us in the game. Risk little, Win much! A trader can have 10 losses and two winning traders and come out positive in their account! I LOVE YOU for sharing this Karen. I hope to meet you someday.

@KarenFoo 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your kind encouragement

@melchizedekaguguom2579 3 жыл бұрын

Best teacher, among the rest. I’m always learning from you ❤️

@KarenFoo 3 жыл бұрын

❤

@emmanuelobuobi8150 Жыл бұрын

Nobody has explain everything like this… you are the best trust me. Thank you

@racquelburton9613 4 жыл бұрын

You are really one of the best at this. I appreciate it alot all the way from Jamaica.

@KarenFoo 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your kind compliment

@huntingjaguar 3 жыл бұрын

Thank karen! The formula nailed it for me. I can always count on your videos 👍

@user-sc6hy8lc8f Жыл бұрын

Hey Karen, I enjoyed watching your videos. I just started trading and didn't even know exactly what and how they do calculate position size, S/L, Value per pip until now that i came across your videos. But it's unfortunate that I had to loss all my $300 investment before coming across your videos. Thanks for your time in giving us who want to trade valuable insights and guidance. Can't thank you enough for what you are doing. May you stay bless.

@halehraeesi2999 4 жыл бұрын

Karen you have answered so many of my questions. believe it or not I have watched so many videos online and you are the only instructor who keeps it simple and pragmatic. you are just the BEST!! tnx thousand times. keep up the wonderful work Karen

@KarenFoo 4 жыл бұрын

You're welcome. I'm glad I could help!

@jaywandery9269 4 жыл бұрын

revenge trading ! when you said i feel sorry for you. i was like, damn thats me.

@KarenFoo 4 жыл бұрын

Most traders would have done some form of revenge trading

@richard21995 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this tutorial, it is really helpful and you explain it very well.

@TIGERDICK 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Karen you are a good mentor 👍🏼. Very insightful and experienced advice you give. Thank you 🙏🏻

@jxjeff 4 жыл бұрын

hi karen, this video really inspired me. Previously i decide the lot size first then calculate SL, with this i am able to know how much maximum risk if it completely goes wrong. But after watching this video, i found out that your approach is definitely a better way of controlling risk per trade in the long run..

@MkhoMA 5 жыл бұрын

I CAN'T BELIEVE I DELETED ALL THE SHIT MOVIES,AND SONGS,AND VIDEOS I HAD ON MY PC JUST TO MAKE SPACE FOR YOU KAREN,YOU ARE ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO CHANGED MY LIFE,I JUST STARTED FOLLOWING YOU A WEEK AGO.I SPENT HOURS AND HOURS WATCHING YOUR LESSONS AND MAKING NOTES.I THOUGHT I AM READY TO START TRADING FOREX BUT AFTER WATCHING YOU ,I CHANGED MY MIND.YOU SAVED ME...MUCH LOVE AND APPRECIATION FROM ME.

@KarenFoo 5 жыл бұрын

Wow. Now that's some real commitment right there. I'm glad that my videos helped. All the best to you!

@keissetje 4 жыл бұрын

5:40 Damn, some generally applicable life advice in the middle trading education. Didn't expect that, but sound advice!

@KarenFoo 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@tafarahove9592 Жыл бұрын

I use the babypips position size calculator and I only risk 1%. If I manage to secure big accounts like 1M, i might reduce it to 0.5%. Thanks Karen for the video.

@mak_r 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Karen, thank you for all this world-class info that you share with us. Be blessed abundantly!

@KarenFoo 4 жыл бұрын

You're welcome!

@thatipamularsmesh3583 4 жыл бұрын

Im learning many from u Karen.U are the best for teaching in easy way

@zakbiz611 3 жыл бұрын

After following for long, i concluded to say your channel is underrated.🤦🏽‍♂️ You’re beautiful n smart ☺️😀

@KarenFoo 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your compliment. Well, some people discriminate me for my age, gender or even my accent.

@zakbiz611 3 жыл бұрын

@@KarenFoo I can attest that’s for people who always wish they were you.☺️ Trust me! :)

@ludoesmusic9877 4 жыл бұрын

👏🏽👏🏽u really help me believe in my self...thank you

@KarenFoo 4 жыл бұрын

You're welcome

@wills5978 2 жыл бұрын

KAREN 👸🏼 , this is Best training video. Figuring out Lot Size , Wow 🤩 , Ouch 😓 , I’m on emotional 😭 Roller Coaster 🎢 .. Haha glad you feel Sorry for me. Shows you care . I Love ❤️ you too. Really appreciate All your video’s. Specifically this one. I finally understand how to figure out my lot size our position size. I was guessing all time by using my foot 🦶 size of 11.5 wide Haha 😂 😆 no wonder why I been losing 4 years. With all your training materials available free. I’m starting to understand all things I was doing wrong. Thank You again Karen 👸🏼.. Ps You Nailed it about Ex

@ifiokudofia6074 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the encourages it really helped me Cause.......😊you're my role model in forex

@abdouelhardoul73 3 жыл бұрын

How easy to explain a complicated subject with smiles patience and love you have a big heart ❤️ full of energy confident and pure values to give such more informations for frees without you giving up or tired to do it other charge people for money for that All my respect and love for you and your family Karen.

@KarenFoo 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your compliment. I do get tired of teaching almost every month. Ppl on the internet are just mean and entitled.

@abdouelhardoul73 3 жыл бұрын

@@KarenFoo you the best I mean wherever you tired you keeping moving forward without giving up that’s a great 👍 from your pure beautiful soul may God bless you and bless your families respect and love from New York City 🙏🙏🙏

@lions9790 Жыл бұрын

Great job Karen. I just love how you articulate your points. I've subscribed already.

@misfitdess3222 4 жыл бұрын

Man Karen, I'm learning so much. Thank you so much

@KarenFoo 4 жыл бұрын

You're welcome

@andrestrat 4 жыл бұрын

Very simply and WELL explained. Thank you Karen!

@KarenFoo 4 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@katingaman 4 жыл бұрын

hello karen, for calculating pip value i use this formula, its similar to yours and gives the exact same result, its a matter of preference. pip value = (pip/ current price) x standard lot ex. EUR USD =(0.0001/ 1.0834)x 100 000 = 9.23€ very helpfull video, thank you for sharing

@KarenFoo 4 жыл бұрын

You need to convert it to usd if your account is denominated in usd:)

@katingaman 4 жыл бұрын

my account is in euro, thanks once again :D

@kronos1017 Жыл бұрын

Great job Ms. Foo!!

@feraricar 2 жыл бұрын

Glad rightoff I started with the best master

@carlo9524 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Karen, not all brokers have a Volume input. I use IQ option and the only inputs are AMOUNT LEVERAGE TP value SL Value Entry price However the pip value is auto computed.

@gezor20 4 жыл бұрын

very valuable information. Thank you!

@brendaodonovan8435 6 жыл бұрын

Yes I learned it further in and it is really important for a trader to understand it.

@KarenFoo 6 жыл бұрын

I wish you all the best in your trading :)

@richardpermejo9751 Жыл бұрын

Thanks mam for the knowledge

@igwepeace1559 4 жыл бұрын

Karen, you're just good!!!

@ezrasitali7575 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Karen. just wanna say thank you! and keep up the good work. Love and Blessings.

@ezrasitali7575 2 жыл бұрын

hey Karen, I have a question. if I'm in a buy and my stop loss is 30 pips down do i add a negative stop loss value in the equation or a positive value.

@gayanrodrigo6637 6 жыл бұрын

from today, ill do my process with this formula.Thanks Karen for valubale advice & let me to check the probability.

@KarenFoo 6 жыл бұрын

You’re welcome Gayan. All the best to you :)

@gayanrodrigo6637 6 жыл бұрын

thanks karen

@victorhernandez4207 4 жыл бұрын

Got a question; I use a position size calculator with a 100 dollar trading account and my risk on every trade is 1%. The calculator says that my position size should be 361 with an entry price of 0.68445 and a stop loss of 0.68722 in the AUDUSD pair. Looks like way too much isn't it?

@philipcook6191 7 ай бұрын

Thank you so much!

@naomigslight444 5 жыл бұрын

great video, nice and clear.

@KarenFoo 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@joshuarobert85 3 жыл бұрын

I'm going to watch every single video you have online Karen.

@jamescut466 2 жыл бұрын

same as before still new to trading so i normally calculate position size by just winging it if in the demo im losing then i just randomly select size learning is a slow process

@bonganemathebula7556 3 жыл бұрын

I understand how the Position sizing formula works but... 1) When we calculate the pip value we have already decided the VOLUME, then why are we calculating the VOLUME again? Im so confused. 2) In the Live market it would be extremely hard to calcute the position size & enter the trade on time. So how do you overcome this? ...Which calculator do you recommend? Thanks in advance ;)

@_Amy9Tro_ 2 жыл бұрын

She so confusing

@hometeamrecords3798 Ай бұрын

One thing I can't understand ever--- Why so smart people, intelligent and diligent in any work or business etc, they have SOOO Many Video Cuts???

@brendaodonovan8435 6 жыл бұрын

I wish I had seen this years ago when I first started trading

@KarenFoo 6 жыл бұрын

Hey Brenda. Better late than never. All the best to you :)

@thekingmormon279 5 жыл бұрын

Me too

@wavymj3301 4 жыл бұрын

how do I calculate the stop loss.

@rahman162 6 жыл бұрын

Amazing content FOO, the way you explain your gained knowledge gets two thumbs up 👍🏿👍🏿👆🏿

@KarenFoo 6 жыл бұрын

Hey Ameee. Thank you so much for the thumbs up. And thanks for the compliment . Glad that you liked it

@pkp2023 3 жыл бұрын

Yes you are the Best ! Ever

@xLeo_xD Ай бұрын

Thank you a lot! I have one questions why is 1% risk equal to 0.01 , and would 14% risk be 0.14?

@DavetheTrader420 2 жыл бұрын

Your English speaking has improved soo much :) nice vid!

@KarenFoo 2 жыл бұрын

don't know what you're trying to imply. I am a top student and straight a's student in school . My english has never been bad after graduation

@DavetheTrader420 2 жыл бұрын

@@KarenFoo sorry I mean nothing bad Honestly! And I don’t doubt that you are very smart!, I mean I can understand you more clearly in your recent videos today then I could this one that’s 3 years old, your accent is changing over time and I can understand it more, I didn’t mean no offence, I watch all your videos and they are so helpful, you’ve helped me a lot and I’m very appreciative for it, :)

@DavetheTrader420 2 жыл бұрын

@@KarenFoo ?

@emekahezekiah8721 6 жыл бұрын

got this advice the hard way...wish i saw this early but still the same am better now...so love this guy...nice advice

@KarenFoo 6 жыл бұрын

Hey Emeka. Thank you for your compliment. It’s better late than never. Btw, I’m not a guy though :)

@carlsongwazaza7215 5 жыл бұрын

amazing staff, thank you for your love

@KarenFoo 5 жыл бұрын

You're welcome

@iamolaoluwa 9 ай бұрын

Thank you ❤

@milanvlogs112 3 жыл бұрын

Very good working

@itsumair001 2 жыл бұрын

Hello Thanks for sharing us your video content something learn new from your tutorial So my Question is here that we have calculated our 2% risk and also find how many pips are they accroding to our lot size So here I am confused that how to find that exact pip value on the live chat to put that value in Stoploss in pending order ?

@Oladayodamilare3 Жыл бұрын

You are doing good

@overthinking8270 3 жыл бұрын

VERY GOOD EXTREMLY PERFECT JOB

@notbxeller 5 жыл бұрын

Very helpful and useful information thanks.

@KarenFoo 5 жыл бұрын

Welcome

@niyikizaemmanuel2050 7 ай бұрын

Hello Karen, so I have question that 0.333 you get after calculating position size, stand for what is it money is it rate, what is that. Thank you

@CryptoMainly 5 жыл бұрын

Very clear. Great video. ❤

@KarenFoo 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@c00lbreeze 2 жыл бұрын

Man this is crazy, I just came from another very recently uploaded video where this guy swore up and down that he searched high and low for how to calculate position size, then he bought (video maker's) book and it changed everything.... so he didn't find this video, that I found by typing in "how to calculate position size". Karen, you help me uncover BS just by existing 😆

@gurpreetkapoor5576 3 жыл бұрын

GREAT 👌 DARLING 💕💞💞💞💞

@raymondsign4407 2 жыл бұрын

How do you add positioning with leverage....I haven't found any video that speaks both at once🤔

@aghoghoeni426 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Karen... The question i have about this. If one intends to scalp, how do you go about this this calculation everytime?

@johnathangrey3463 5 жыл бұрын

This is real tough one.

@farhanmohamed6420 5 жыл бұрын

Hi Karen, when talking about the capital, is it the total amount of money that I'm controlling (Deposit+Leverage) or it's my deposit/margin only?... pls reply. thank you for this wonderful and educative video.

@tumisangselemogwe9547 3 жыл бұрын

I'm a beginner I would like to ask how you came to the value per pip

@fkimprovements6420 11 күн бұрын

Where do u get 30 as pips and the value of pips as 10

@krgoins3531 3 жыл бұрын

Hello Manager Foo, Thank you for sharing your knowledge. My account went through a brokerage company in Shanghai. I was accepting the analyst advise and I was doing very well for a long time. Then all of a sudden I lost my entire account in one instance during a trade. They claimed it was a brokerage stopping mechanism that prevented massive losses. That's when I recognized I need a lot more education. Have you heard of any situations like this?

@nabinsarkar1145 5 жыл бұрын

Very good videos and very helpful to me thank you mam

@KarenFoo 5 жыл бұрын

You're welcome !

@atafavour2120 2 жыл бұрын

Pls I want to know when we are calculating for position size is our answer in unit or dollar?

@theeaglestrader3442 3 жыл бұрын

Good job mentor. But how do you calculate the stop loss. Do you measure from your entry point to where you want to place your stop loss then you add up

@zomb3kill3r 4 жыл бұрын

great video!

@ervin1jp 2 жыл бұрын

Luvin' it.

@shawnwaldron8912 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Karen how would you manually calculate an account size of $1,000 with a risk of 0.5 % so less then 1% to gain about 50 - 100 pips swing trading

@carlo9524 4 жыл бұрын

My daily ATR is set at 1.5 times. Meaning if the ATR is 100 pips, my stop loss is at 150 pips. Then, the profit is at 80% of the ATR sto that would be 80 pips. However.... if a breakthrough is imminent I'll let it run as long as it can so I get more than the 80 pips.

@jackolantern9581 2 жыл бұрын

Hi coach Karen, so I got your idea that Stop Loss should be determined first before the Lot Size, yeah? ...and so to solve for the Lot Size, you mentioned that we need the Amount of Capital, the Risk Percentage per Trade, the Stop Loss (in Pips), and the Value per Pip. But before the Value per Pip can be established, we need to have the Lot Size among other things; therefore, when we have the Value per Pip to multiply it to Stop Loss (in Pips), the Lot Size was already determined. So, coach Karen, which Lot Size is the "true" one?

@veesticks1605 3 жыл бұрын

I love you, what broker do you advise we use

@Magicmh7 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your explanation but how do i calculate it so fast for lower time frames? I want to trade 5min chart but i just struggle to calculate lot size fast enough to enter the position on time 🧐

@JamesSmith-ds2hi 4 жыл бұрын

When doing risk management should u go by your balance or the equity you have?

@sureshthangaraju2672 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Karen, I have $2000 account set with 1:1 leverage I have used a position size calculator to determine the lot size. Example: EUR/USD Set with 1% risk of my account value Stop loss :30 pips Contract size is left as: 100,000 Calculated lot size: 0.067 When I used the above lot size to open a trade it says insufficient margin. Using the margin calculator from my broker, Calculated margin: $7,956.25 • Unless I leveraged, I cannot seem to take the trade. • Will that mean my risk is now factored by the leverage amount (min leverage with my broker 1:25)? • Does the position size calculator not work with consideration of my account size to provide a suitable lot size? • What am I missing?

@wehttamak 6 жыл бұрын

karen I understand calculating the lot size but I still don't understand the stop-loss calculations you stated its determined by market conditions/currency how about an example cause putting it like that doesnt help me as a beginner to determine the specific amount a working example may help as oppose to just saying its determined by market conditions

@KarenFoo 6 жыл бұрын

Matthew. I'll consider doing examples on those. What I meant was that a lot of traders would have their stop losses not fixed everytime because they need to look at market conditions to determine their stop loss level. But if you have a strategy with a fixed stop loss level, then you can ignore that statement :)

@wehttamak 6 жыл бұрын

Karen Foo don't have any strategy I'm in the learning process hence the questions and the confusion on my part :)

@KarenFoo 6 жыл бұрын

I see. Well you've understand what I mean eventually. :)

@zoyten8279 5 жыл бұрын

But theres just one problem that nobody seems to struggle with, i open trades on the 5m chart so i calculate my position size 10seconds before candle closing but the price can move so much in 10 seconds and i have to calculate all over again cuz otherwise if i open anyways my risk to reward% changes and i end up losing more of my account than i wanted and gain less money. This always results in me missing a lot of opportunities and i dont know what to do i tried calculating faster but its impossible to do it faster than 8s im really struggling please help 😢

@KarenFoo 5 жыл бұрын

I use an automatic calculator on my metatrader 4. And also...I dont scalp. Makes life a lot easier

@MeiYingLim 3 жыл бұрын

Volume 0.33 is it standard lot or microlot

@prakashpaulraj4361 4 жыл бұрын

Hai karen please clarify me...for the calculation we used 10000$ account.....but the pip value we given was 10$..... For 10000$ pip value is $1 that what we calculate in previous video Thank you for your videos

@jonathanarevalo2721 2 жыл бұрын

Is the value per pip $10 because of Standard Lot size? 🤔

@edwinhernandez6505 4 жыл бұрын

How do I calculate lot size on let’s say the us30 or nasdaq? Thanks for help

@AndrewDTOX 3 жыл бұрын

How do you incorporate spread into your positions?

@rhysmerrifield7568 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Karen, still going through videos and learning 'lots' sorry excuse the pun haha - is that broker in you description still your broker or do you have a different one to recommend?

@KarenFoo 2 жыл бұрын

ya that's the one i currently recommend. I update the links

@rhysmerrifield7568 2 жыл бұрын

@@KarenFoo you are amazing, thank you :)

@7771ham 4 жыл бұрын

So 0.33 on a 10k account would be 33 cents for each pip correct? I just wanna make sure I’m doing this right. I’ve been saving up and I’m close to 10k no, exited to start my forex journey, but I wanna do it the right way, the Karen foo way! Ik if I do it like that I’ll be successful in the end! Thank you Karen :)

@magma3525 5 жыл бұрын

Hi Karen! How do you include LEVERAGE into the equation, because that would change the number of LOTS you could trade wouldn't it? Do you multiply the result with the leverage you have? I am not good with math at all, can you help me please? And, thank you for the good and detailed explanation!!!

@KarenFoo 5 жыл бұрын

As long as you manage your lot size...leverage wont be an issue

@kevinvest1208 3 жыл бұрын

I like that ex bf/gf part.. 😁 but thank you learn a lot.. 👍

@whiteswordwarrior9995 4 жыл бұрын

Hey quick FX question nobody answers me on the few youtubers i asked :( Why would anyone buy a gold ETF when they can buy a gold FX long position with like 2x leverage? Who would ever think gold will drop to 850.. Or is this not possible in forex to long a position as an investment in gold?

@chidieberekenneth101 2 жыл бұрын

I love you Karen your the best 😘😘😘😘😘

@hometeamrecords3798 Ай бұрын

Karen, ur a Smartes one, but who is editing ur videos?...

@haarvey8363 2 жыл бұрын

If i have a 1:100 leverage relative to a 1:10 leverage how would this affect my position?

@huooful 3 жыл бұрын

So lets say we have a 5000$ account and risking 1%/trade(assuming) First trade risking 50$(if losing then second trade Then second trade 45,50(1% of 4550) And so on? So the 1% gets just smaller. Or can we just go with the 50$ risk every trade?

@huooful 3 жыл бұрын

Second trade supposed to be 49,50(1% of 4950$) If losing again then third trade we have capital left 4900$ so 1% is 49$ and so on.