lol I’m working right now and I was like true that

Same

SAME

Same!!!

Was literally drawing when she said this haha, I mean hey sometimes I watch at lunch too!

11:32

@@Avendesora ?

@@marianr.2155 Sorry, I must have paused it later than I thought I did when I made the comment. Try 11:26. I am pointing out that she didn't forget to say this and you just missed it lol

wait so what's going on? T-T

It was also... THE GOOFIEST announcement teasers. Tone deaf, indeed.

​@@basicallyno1722 that's a silly thing to say

@@basicallyno1722Nah, a ton of countries have free wifi everywhere. Some governments even have free wifi as a public service. The comment in question I think was about Thailand and how 6USD was about half a day’s pay for an average worker, which is more about currency conversion than an indicator of their living conditions because the cost of living is lower and based around Thai currency and not USD.

@@basicallyno1722it's sad that americans can't imagine a country providing a free service for their people and having affordable groceries

THIS!! 1$ is worth about 4.5 of my currency. this is far from affordable for people like myself, who not only have to deal with converting but also just not having much money in general. if it was 6 in my currency it would be affordable, but i doubt they want to make people pay a 1.50$ a month because atp its not worth it for them at all

Yep, 6$ USD is 8$ CAD here which while that's not a massive difference, we're in a massive cost of living crisis and I personally am on disability

YES!! This exactly 💜

exactly this! like i don’t care about the production value- just give us a black screen with text again

My favorite series of their by far is "are you scared" bc its literally just ryan narrating a creepypasta with cool illustrations to go along with it. Also the fact that they kinda moved away from horror/paranormal 😔 that was literally what tied it all together

Yes!

EXACTLYYYYY!! also, I feel like having cheaper production actually helped with the overall vibe of the show. if we wanted tv quality, we'd watch one of the many ghost hunting tv shows

yeah I'm just here to watch people talk about movies I haven't watched and books I haven't read, or the occasionally controversy like this

Especially Steven in his Tesla

@@j.yang7 If wi-fi wasn't part of my rent, I probably couldn't afford it haha! But yeah, KZfaq entertainment is a destress time. I don't want to have to get out my wallet every time I watch.

I have money to spend on streaming services and have literally several, I do not want to add another. There's already too many.

Jack's skit about this entire mess was on point "we forgot about the poors" lol

Parasocial relationships, baby 😎👉👉

"but my Precious UwU Smol Bean would NEVER betray me like this! it must be that Evil Other Guy!" - literally like half their fans after the announcement

actually I take it back, feels like half the comments even on *this* video are doing the same thing. 'I'm gonna ignore the culpability of Anyone Else Involved Here and just blame the food guy' like? did we watch the same video?

Same. I'm literally doing data entry on a spreadsheet at work right now. I can listen to hours of KZfaq in a day and watch virtually none of it.

same omg 😭 i was doing chores and making lunch while "watching" this video lmao

Real! On my lunch break at work and had no clue what this was about before watching 💀😭

I was walking my dog lmao

I stopped my knitting to acknowledge how accurate this was

“This adult man I don’t know would never betray the morals I projected onto them into crevices in personas they created for that purpose” fandom is celebrity but with different flavor options on the same food change my mind (impossible)

the way oompville talked about the general feeling of the fandom very much summed up: "shane is innocent, ryan is learning and steven is a villain" lol

The expensive food show is dumb and no one wants it but yes, all 3 are guilty.

It's easier to scapegoat the less popular guy than to accept your favorite ghoul boys are greedy hypocrites. They definitely all played their part in this. There was no way that it was just Steven.

@@Shaqiliciousseven if it were entirely Steven and he’s this horrible greedy villain, Shane and Ryan have a choice. Just like they left Buzzfeed by choice. Yeah it’d be hard to leave the company they built, but their new direction is insane and going to flop, it actually would’ve been better to leave. But they haven’t, so it’s equally their fault.

same!!

I thought she said wh0res 😭

I mean it is basically that. I can not afford another subscription

Right! I would’ve respected him for being honest 😂

Yep - that’s why I stayed unsubscribed after that apology

Thiiissss

it’s giving Capitol

Tbh, this

I mean, it is funny how he's like "it is morally okay to still from the rich" and then he does this stupid thing, like what he expects??? Also, turns out his wife is also tone deaf despite all the woke preaching, defending the decision on Tumblr XD

This is hilarious, thanks for the laugh!

Same here, looked down at my sewing and felt called out :P

Absolutely looking for this comment, as I work on my next embroidery demo....

Cross stitching as I listen...

Same here- I'm working on an illustration commissionXD

Oh my god you right though. I was thinking of those guys who think they deserve a girlfriend just because they have money.

@@nicoler5713 Or Nice Guys (TM) who claim to be nice and deserve a reward in the form of a human being for doing the bare minimum. It's always the same question with situations like this, what do you bring to the table? What is it you can do?

exactly omg

They spend like hundred thousand dollars on their wedding too... So much financial struggle 😔

This is quite literally what I thought abt too.

Yeah. Also, wasn’t CH a company long before they started the streaming service, while Watcher has existed for like 5 years? There is a pretty big different between them to my knowledge.

@@thetruebadevilyeah collegehumor started in 1999… and were never profitable afaik. Dropout started out as a very small service that was like $1/month for basically bonus content while the KZfaq was still free and uploading , then when they lost their VC funding they transitioned to more money/month and pretty much all exclusive content.

Yeah i kept seeing people talking like it was the same thing, and these situations aren't even comparable.

What a lot of KZfaqrs do not talk about, it is that Steven owns a Tesla. The rest of them have shown in the past that they do not struggle financially. They do not struggle to keep the business alive, they just cannot afford their lifestyle so the audience has to do it.

so true. I literally can not afford another subscription.

For real. People tell me “you must have money to spend” because I purchase what to some is a recreational substance. But for me it’s medication I could die without. A lot of people live in luxury they can’t even recognize.

It made me laugh when Steven (?) said in their apology video that this was a 'learning experience'. How out of touch with reality you have to be to realize that there are people living paycheck to paycheck, there are people in the world for whom $6 can be half a day of work. I'm an engineer but I come from a piss poor country and earn something around American minimum wage. So $6 is in fact a lot to me. I could afford paying it monthly but I just don't want to because my priorities for the next couple of years at least are different

a dollar's a dollar.

right or when that $5 a month is what gets you toothpaste or something you actually need lmfao

and all those employees are family and friends so they feel like they CANT let go of any of them

​@@cassinipaninithey should, if they want to financially survive

@@cassinipaninithat’s their own fault. Don’t hire people if you can’t afford them

Seriously it’s why their stuff feels so inauthentic and over produced because why are there 15+ people credited in their videos of them just playing a videogame.

And this is why you don't hire too many employees, and you definitely don't hire all your friends and family. Economics 101.

Yeah, honestly half the time youtube videos are "what I fall asleep to" content (sometimes intentionally, sometimes not), and the rest of it is stuff to watch while I eat meals or browse on my phone.

I know like almost every episode is full of those extremely quotable moments, the banter was unequaled and I just haven’t seen the same thing in any of their Watcher content

I still see that meme a lot, including other moments from unsolved but I rarely see any from watcher 😬

TWENTY FIVE? That is. A lot more employees than I would have expected???

Some youtubers aren't very smart with their money...not realizing how quickly it can go AND their content can dry up lol

25? That's more than the H3 podcast. What are all those pple doing

I’m guessing a lot of those 25 people are employees thanks to nepotism.

BUT they have 10 directors of photography, so they look very nice and cute while making their "gimme money so I don't have to fire my cousin or my friends pls" video.

At least it was for something they did rather than the actions of an ex friend/coworker

@@craigjenkins5434 purr

SOFIYA WOULD NEVER

This is like comparing a burning forest to a burning house lol

@@deano8894 I would argue the tri guys weren’t even on fire. They just had one bad egg they felt they needed to apologize for

Agreed! The only shows I watch from them is Mystery Files and Puppet History. Occasionally I will watch a top 5 beat down episode. Truly all of those things should not require big budgets and a half hour runtime is enough for most people

Plus they forgot the reason why Unsolved got so popular is not because they are ghost hunting channel -- they are ghost hunting PARODY channel. We don't need their tv level cinematography super advanced system stuff, we just want them to be funny.

Not to mention them going to the UK for Ghost Files was also them doing live shows that should have helped finance that trip to begin with

They're in the beginnings of a tour right now, someone I know is booked to see them in London in a couple weeks... Is that not bringing in a ton of money??

@@dolphinloser6546 Hooooly shit, no way

@@ChildrenUnder30 yeah, they were in the O2 in London on Wednesday this week! Literally less than a full week after their announcement. What were they THINKING.

I think it's wilder that they want to go international but Watcher TV is not available to international fans so those said fans will have to use a VPN and will be paying way higher fees for the website's subscription.

Yeah, I was about to say - it's not a rumor, they confirmed it in their interview to Variety and backwalked it so fast in the first like 5 hours after they uploaded the initial "Goodbye KZfaq" video because the backlash was so bad. Now they're pretending like they didn't say it because it was such a bad look and frankly kind of a dumb decision because like Swell says in the vid backlogs make a lot of passive income from KZfaq.

This is as bad as the Bon Appetite breakdown.

Thank god I found this comment, I watched the Goodbye KZfaq video within the first hour it was up (haven’t been back since). Then watched a bunch of other commentaries about it and was confused that people say Watcher isn’t taking their old content down. I thought I was imagining things. But it seems they backtracked and pretend it was never the case. If I had any ounce of respect left for them after the apology, it’s definitely gone now.

Wow...they're absolutely dumb guys 😅, I feel like they didn't wanna listen anyone who TRIED to stop them from this

I tot agree Buzzfeed felt more idk immersive like we were with them as explorers, I don’t really have the same vibe with the Watcher series on their ghost expeditions they probably went into more centralized mode where their public personalities were more defined, which was probably a bad idea they should have kept the same vibe and maybe tweaked it into more on creativity side where fans get to pick and choose where they investigate idk..just a example…whatever I still like them but vibe feels bad man

They just enter the house and insult the "Ghosts". The chemistry feels almost scripted and Ryan goes crazy too often.

I mean...content creators deserve to be paid for their labor, even if they already live comfortably. If you don't want to or can't afford to pay for entertainment, there's tons of free options available to you (I had no intention of shelling out for another streaming service either!) but it's not unfair for anyone to want to be paid a livable wage for their career even if they started their career creating free content. I have to say I'm baffled by all the "I'm entitled to free content from my favorite entertainers" responses. You're...not, actually.

@@willd.4808I think the ick is coming from the “livable wage” part. They’re well above livable wage.

@@willd.4808 that's just it, livable wages implies that they need income that can covers basic necessities such as food, shelter, child care and healthcare. Someone who can afford to spend their money on multiple luxuries certainly earns more than 'livable' wages as she has stated on her post. It just comes off as dishonest and out of touch when you're an influencer who's salary is higher than what most people earn a year (even if the people have worked their ass for years) - and to turn around and say "hey, we actually need you guys to pay for our content, cause you know what? We don't have money to live, but please do ignore all of the expensive things that we have bought and paid for cause that is part of our basic necessities, teehee" that's just scummy as hell, so yes, people DO have a right to get angry at that. And no, it's not unfair that they want to diversify their income by putting their content behind a paywall, you don't see people get angry just because a creator is going down the patreon route or making a deal with a streaming site for their show - no, it's usually the opposite where fans give them support whenever their finances allows it. In short, NOBODY expects that a youtuber to stay and create their content on youtube ONLY. What Watcher has done is not diversifying their content, but instead cutting off one of the major platform (arguably, the most important one that supplies them with potential new fans and new deals with other businesses) and say "yeah, we've been spending a whole lot of money more than what's necessary, but it's all for you, cause you guys are the one who wants a TV production, right? You guys wants our shows to be just like what other TV shows are, so please pay us more money for that" when NO ONE ever asked for that. Again, it's scummy to be making financial decision that you know that you can't afford (hiring 25 people plus more now that they seems wanting to bring thee 'worth it' gang back, wanting to make a TV show, etc), then PUTTING it on the fans to pay for it when the fans never asked for that while clearly living a lavish lifestyle that they keep flexing to the fans (not to mention how manipulative it feels for them to create an emotional intro to just then ask for money from the fans afterwards in the 'goodbye youtube' video AND the fact that they always maintain this 'eat the rich' persona all these years, especially from Ryan and Shane). It's like that one rich friend of yours who invited you out for lunch at an expensive restaurant, order all of the expensive food for both of you and then expects you to pay the bill. So no, it's not unfair that they want their content to be paid for (which honestly already has by adsense, and sponsors that they regularly gets) but it is unfair to expect the fans to pay for their financial decision which again, nobody asked for. I'm baffled by how diehard you go defending their decision, without trying to understand from the fans' perspective and called them entitled, when there are a lot of justifiable reasons for a fan of theirs to get mad at them.

@@willd.4808 That's just it, livable wage implies income that can cover their basic necessities such as food, shelter, child care and healthcare. And I assured you, someone who can afford to buy multiple luxuries earns more than what Sara has stated as 'livable wage'. What content creators earns per month is usually a whole lot more than an average person's income per year, even if that person has been working for years. So to turn around and say "hey, can you guys pay us more money, cause boohoo, we can't afford to just live on these wages, please do ignore all of the expensive things we have bought recently cause that's honestly what we considered as basic necessities, teehee" is just dishonest and scummy as h*ll (not to mention, the level of audacity to get mad and blocked those who have pointed these out). So yeah, it is justified for people who got mad at her for posting that. And no, it's not unfair for a content creator trying to diversifying their incomes by going down the patreon route or having their show on a streaming site, you don't see anyone getting mad at a youtuber for having a patreon and promoting it on youtube. Instead, you would see fans trying to support their favourite creator by buying the services that they provide (merch, streams, etc) whenever their finances allows it. What Watcher has done is not diversifying their income but cutting off one of their major platforms (arguably, the most important one that can potentially brings in a horde of new fans and new deals from other businesses), making irresponsible financial decision that nobody has ever asked for, and then saying "please give us more money, I understand that most of you are financially struggling, but hey only $6 per month! What a steal, right? And we're doing it for you guys, you did asked for shows that has TV production level, right?" while STILL living a lavish life that they keep flaunting to the viewers. It's like that one rich friend of yours who invited you to have a lunch at an expensive restaurant, and order all of the expensive food but then expected you to pay for the bills. So yeah, while it's fair for a content creator to go down multiple routes other than youtube to increase their income (which NOBODY expects a youtuber to make content ONLY on youtube), it's not fair for a content creator to be making decisions that none of their fans has asked for (increasing their production values and set) and then asking the fans to pay for it while pretending as if they don't have extra money that they would use on their next expensive purchase for themselves. It baffled me how diehard you go supporting their decision, while ignoring the viewers' perspective and calling them entitled, when there's countless and justifiable reasons for one to get mad at them for doing what they did.

@@willd.4808 That's just it, livable wage implies income that can cover their basic necessities such as food, shelter, child care and healthcare. And I assured you, someone who can afford to buy multiple luxuries earns more than what Sara has stated as 'livable wage'. What content creators earns per month is usually a whole lot more than an average person's income per year, even if that person has been working for years. So to turn around and say "hey, can you guys pay us more money, cause boohoo, we can't afford to just live on these wages, please do ignore all of the expensive things we have bought recently cause that's honestly what we considered as basic necessities, teehee" is just dishonest and scummy as heck (not to mention, the level of audacity to get mad and blocked those who have pointed these out). So yeah, it is justified for people who got mad at her for posting that. And no, it's not unfair for a content creator trying to diversifying their incomes by going down the p*treon route or having their show on a streaming site, you don't see anyone getting mad at a youtuber for having a p*treon and promoting it on youtube. Instead, you would see fans trying to support their favourite creator by buying the services that they provide (merch, streams, etc) whenever their finances allows it. What Watcher has done is not diversifying their income but cutting off one of their major platforms (arguably, the most important one that can potentially brings in a horde of new fans and new deals from other businesses), making irresponsible financial decision that nobody has ever asked for, and then saying "please give us more money, I understand that most of you are financially struggling, but hey only $6 per month! What a steal, right? And we're doing it for you guys, you did asked for shows that has TV production level, right?" while STILL living a lavish life that they keep flaunting to the viewers. It's like that one rich friend of yours who invited you to have a lunch at an expensive restaurant, and order all of the expensive food but then expected you to pay for the bills. So yeah, while it's fair for a content creator to go down multiple routes other than youtube to increase their income (which NOBODY expects a youtuber to make content ONLY on youtube), it's not fair for a content creator to be making decisions that none of their fans has asked for (increasing their production values and set) and then asking the fans to pay for it while pretending as if they don't have extra money that they would use on their next expensive purchase for themselves. It baffled me how diehard you go supporting their decision, while ignoring the viewers' perspective and calling them entitled, when there's countless and justifiable reasons for one to get mad at them for doing what they did.

totally agree, the mixing of the two made them BOTH feel disingenuous

So many people were pointing that out because it's so obviously such a bad move. And, yet, no one on their team picked up on it? Or they just ignored them, thought people were too stupid, and/or they were blinded by their ego? Because if you wrote that into a script people would say it was a stupid plot point to even have in because it's so ridiculous.

Yes exactly this, it made the whole message read as "we are failing to properly manage funds internally, by making content outside of our financial means. Instead of fixing these internal issues, consulting our audience on what alternate streams of income they'd be willing to contribute to to widen our budget, or lowering the budget on certain productions so we're producing within our means, we instead decided to pass the buck onto you the viewer, without addressing our financial mismanagement. We (an incredibly small media company) want to make the TV quality high production content that _you deserve_ (and also didn't ask for), so long as you pay us $6. You're welcome."

Even so. At the end of the day. It's not the audience's duty to save their failing business because they've been mishandling their company's money. No one wants to be the bad guy and fire people or downsize but when you're a company and you misuse your income, it's the people who work for you that suffer. And them glossing over that still irks me

What I think really happened is these people just have very little business management sense. When they moved their content off of buzzfeed, they didn’t think about the fact that both Worth It and Unsolved were big production projects that they would have to fund without buzzfeed’s support. At the same time, I don’t think any of these guys know how to pivot from these big projects, because that’s what they are known for. So if they’re thinking “people won’t want to keep watching if we don’t jetset around the world doing amazing things,” they probably believe it’s necessary for the company. Don’t get me wrong, it’s stupid and I’m not defending them. But they aren’t like uniquely evil or anything, this is just what happens when you start a company with no business sense.

About Shane and Sara - OMFG!! I can't believe Shane at this point 😭😭 He was alwayyyyys the kind of guy to take jabs at people who flaunted their wealth and praised ppl pirating content - now you're creating an exclusive streaming platform to profit off of, in addition to the $$$ from yt? it's insane how people get so disconnected from who they were after getting some cash

Exactly in the same boat, followed them from BuzzFeed to Watcher, all those different shows I loved, EXCEPT the cooking content. And only now that you mention it does it become clear that Too many spirits, Puppet history, and the scary stories one are super low budget! Like, one off expenses for set up and simple animations from one animator, not to mention fans doing the writing for them, so was all the money just going on the cooking??

@faultyfox669 cooking AND expenses from hiring (likely) exclusively family and friends from their vastly oversized crew 😀

They have to know Steven's content isn't what ppl want. I also agree with the cooking content at the beginning feeling genuine. I liked the episodes where Steven would go to ppl's houses and he would learn to cook traditional foods. Liked those but now it just doesn't seem interesting. Really I only subscribed for Shane and Ryan. Hopefully this is the wake up call they needed

Y’all arent getting it. When you have your family as employees, there is a tax they don’t pay in California. They aren’t doing it out of the goodness of their own hearts.

Especially how there has been "food is a luxury statement" discourse with celebrities flaunting how they shop in Erewhon. They indeed should not do a show that requires taste, woof.

This definitely came across very poorly, but people are really overblowing the expensive food thing. Those videos are probably significantly cheaper to make than the on-location shoots for the ghost/true crime videos they want to be doing. People watch those videos because the food is expensive, and they get a good amount of views. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the only show where they are running a budget surplus, considering that it’s like their only show where they aren’t renting out a set.

@@longlivedodos It's a little deeper than the food being expensive on its own. I don't believe ppl are (just) upset about the food itself being expensive, just that on one hand the Watcher team "can't pay their employees" and on the other they are asking loyal fans to pay for them to film something with "luxury" foods when people can't afford bread and eggs right now in the States (context if you're not in America). So it feels disingenuous and grift-y for many, like adding insult to injury.

Yeah the amount of babying I see people doing for these 3 idiots is crazy.

LITERALLY. pop the parasocial bubble!

So true. The other two are main creators with major stake in this, I doubt they were just reluctantly brought into this by Steven.

in the past 4 years ive seen way too many people defend ADULT content creators who make poor decisions and be like "oh they just didnt know" and baby them to no end. like those are grown ass men, if they are that stupid to not raise their discomfort or think "should i say this?" they are probably too irresponsible and shouldnt be getting your support in the first place

And tbh, I follow crime youtubers who do much more explicit content than even Unsolved TC. Plenty of them have a sponsor every video.

I never realized that was because of sponsors. I thought it was because of the (often) exploitative nature of true crime content 😅

@@ia490 Their stated reason at the time of launching mystery files was, if I recall correctly, that true crime was just too dark and depressing. I suspect both things are true. They wanted to veer away from that content to have an easier time getting sponsors, but it also probably was a bummer to be researching and talking about horrible murders all the time.

Except crime isn't the only content KZfaq advertisers don't like. The only show I could see not having advertisers issues with is dish granted. Ghost files: usually people associate hauntings with tragedy/violence so when they are giving the backstory there is content advertisers don't like. Too many spirits there could be unfriendly content in the stories, but also advertisers on KZfaq don't like drinking. I think depending on the game or historical event survival mode and puppet history could broach topics advertisers aren't super into as well.

@@naonao9528 They had significant brand deals on 12 out of their last 19 videos. Too Many Spirits has literally had special sponsorship episodes where they do a one off mini episode just for a brand deal.

I think the reason a lot of people blame Steven mainly is because he's now sole CEO so he has a lot more say over things and that his focus on shows that are a lot more expensive just for the sake of them makes it feel like he's the one pushing higher costs for no reason. I do agree that people need to be spreading the blame a lot more evenly across the three of them and not just excusing Ryan and Shane because they're the presenters they like, but I can see why a lot of people would assume it's largely a problem caused by Steven. His content wasnt what most people checked into the channel for and compared to the more grounded premise for a lot of the other series which could easily be made with lower budgets, the luxury taste testing stuff just feels like an expense that should have been first on the chopping block if they were actually having money issues. The whole thing is just a major mess of all of them not bothering to ask their audience what they actually want because they thought they knew better

Hey I'm not super familiar with Steven, what are his questionable opinions?

@@earthwormjim1125 I'm not super familiar with him either but from what I gather he's a bit like the community meme of 'ill accept racism but I draw the line at animal cruelty' where he'll happily forgive people being racist even when it's towards people and groups other than himself and it's not his place to decide how offensive or forgivable something was. Plus he's a Tesla shill maybe? Not 100% sure on that either but considering how much he focused on high priced stuff and needing to always be bigger and more expensive it would be more of a shock to me to learn he wasn't

@@earthwormjim1125 people recently found out the pastor he invited onto one of their shows is virulently homophobic (and is also HIS pastor at the church he attends), and have noticed homophobic books in the background in some of the videos filmed in Steven's house. And he has said openly he is friends with racists and homophobes. Also brags about having a tesla which is just obnoxious rich person behavior.

@@MxchiefMaykrsole CEOs do not realistically get 100 percent say over everything. This sort of decision had to be put to a vote. I speculate Shane, his Wife Ryan and Steven voted on it and the decision won 3 to 1. Based on the info, it was Steven and Maybe Shane's Wife. So now who's the tie breaker? I fucking hate it when "The Boys" are absolved of responsibility when it was either Ryan or Shane as a tie breaker in a major vote that could change the direction of their company.

Ugh, that just gave the ick

ty for saying this ! Ive been super bothered by this part bc imo they said it loud and clear

Also it was in a Variety article the Watcher boys' interviewed for. Explicitly stated their series would become exclusive to the new site.

They literally were gaslighting us.

Fucking thank you! I knew I remembered them saying that in the video, but Swell and others saying it was rumored made me doubt myself.

A lot of us remember hearing it. Denying it is just outright lying.

meanwhile Quinta Brunson became the Beyoncé to Buzzfeed’s Destiny’s Child and is chilling with 2 Emmys and a Golden Globe

Some of the Try Guys are ok... and Quinta is doing really well

Kristen and Jen are doing well too! I watch a lot of their food reviews because they help me not buy food that I won’t like lol

Quinta came from buzzfeed?!?! Safiya is infinitely likable but I would worry her content would be too repetitive. And, tbh,usually kinda pointless. Overall, it’s painful to watch ex buzzers as they ignore the value that production & marketing brought, and persist in their belief that the public clamors for them.

There are a bunch of post-buzzfeed ppl who are doing great. I know Safiya is the prime example most people mention and she is the most popular, but shes rlly not the only one. The others are doing other projects too tho I do have to say most of the ones doing well are the women (with the slight exception of the current try guys tho YB who was also part of buzzfeed is also there).

And with over 2500 likes! 🙈🙈🙈

I saw her post and thought, she really should have stayed out of it. Then the update happened, and I thought wow now she REALLY should have stayed out of it.

Shane was also at LEAST middle class (maybe upper middle class) before Buzzfeed. He talked about it on the Bad With Money podcast years ago; he's never really had to struggle to pay his bills, much less worry about other expenses. Dude is living the high life now but he kinda always had it easy. :/ Explains the entitlement.

Translation: "creators don't deserve to be paid for their effort if they're not poor"

I've always wondered what she does to make money. She has a print store but I can't tell how she makes money apart from that

​@@willd.4808 Found Shanes' wife y'all!

It’s insane, fans dog piled on Steven, when clearly it was a group decision, they should all take blame- the only thing I know is Steven wanted to do a more ‘expensive series’ and fans hated it.

​​@@Clownbunnycosplay I pretty much only watch puppet history and am not in the fandom but like Steven is both the CEO and the host of a show where he travels, sometimes out of country, and eats hundred dollar meals. Like I can see how that'd create some animosity when the company starts publically talking about money issues. I still think its parasocial but when the public appearances of the CEO have been him quitting a filming halfway through and the show where he eats hundred dollar food it's like understandable that he'd have a reputation.

not gonna defend the nasty and racist comments toward Steven at all, but I did see a fair amount of people also pointing out how Shane's whole 'capitalism sucks eat the rich' thing he's done throughout the years now felt... hypocritical at the very least

My guess is from what I have seen of Steve, he has an naive bordering on toxic positivity on camera persona similar to Jimmy Fallon does. This can come off as insincere especially when compared against Ryan and Shane.

i haven't been in the fandom for a hot minute, but that kind of dynamic has been present even when watcher was newer. it's really unfortunate

the cackle I let out at this hurt my stitches lmao

We love the Ned slander

To be fair, having an HR department wouldn’t have stopped the affair from happening, it would have just meant they had internal employees to fix the liabilities. And it seems like they did reach out to an HR company to navigate the fallout of a bad business partner.

That's what got me. I can afford the $6, but that hasn't always been easy to afford, and the whole situation has made me have questions about how they run their business. In what world do you make a change like this with seemingly no market research?! Cause here's the thing, I was leaning towards joining their patreon because of them adding the other worth it guys. Now? I'm going to wait and see, because that still is a lot of money to me.

@@maggiep6605maybe they should branch out their dumb Worth It series to test their streaming platform against the 100 others out there. Sure I have $6 a month, but is it worth it for Watcher? Nope

Agreed, they didn't do ANY market research or proof-of-concept work. They were so up their own asses that they really thought, "if we just announce this as an exciting surprise, then people will happily give us money, without question or pushback!" All that money they're spending on payroll, and it's all just on "yes" men, apparently. No one stood up to them and told them it was a bad idea. 🤦🏻‍♀️

They did poll their patreon ONCE and its inhrently biased because they already pay

plus ghost hunting is supposed to be low quality, thats how you see the ghosts!!!

Without a disclaimer bad audio gets around 2 minutes to clear up or I'm out

​@lilymulligan8180 they really used the same strategy I use when I have to give my cat a pill. "Oh a treat! An extra special treat!"

And drawfee is independent from dropout and still on KZfaq. Because it's just people bantering and drawing and doesn't need the higher production value, so it wouldn't make sense to move it to a premium platform.

Not to mention that Sam Reich dropped a lot of his own money into getting Dropout afloat and to be able to hire people back on. Dropout works well because it has a pretty varied cast and a lot of different content, watcher has a much smaller selection of shows and releases content pretty slowly compared to a lot of productions with their crew size and budget, and only really has Ryan and Shane in front of the camera 90% of the time so there's no real variety of value for money in comparison. Dropout worked out of necessity and had a good couple years of barely scraping by before it turned enough of a profit to be viable in the long run, Watcher clearly had short sighted goals of cash grabbing with it without understanding what their audience wanted and how that situation isn't desirable if it's not absolutely necessary

​@@williewonka9805 afaik that's because after the CH shutdown, drawfee chose to keep their own IP. most of the shows on dropout are new IPs for this reason, the CH exec team made sure all the creators had full control over their own work even after the company went down

Yess this and the additional comments. I was floored by how obviously they were trying to do Dropout, including the whole ass interface of their website just without the app.

It smells to me less like dropout and more like Fine Bros. Remember React World?

My favorite podcast is filmed by two friends in a bathtub!! People talking to the camera is my Favorite content to watch on KZfaq!! If I wanted high production I’d go to traditional media is my thought process

​@erensalias what's the name of the podcast? It sounds interesting

⁠@@Caterpillar0fDoomI might be wrong but I’m pretty sure they’re talking about Nicole Rafiee’s podcast called talk nasty to me

and are they planning to upload more over there, because even people who have money wouldn't want to pay the same price as netflix for a streaming service with only 4 or 5 new videos every month

yeah if you're making youtube quality videos and have 25 staff members you're probably spending money poorly. They want people to pay a streaming service fee for videos that are of youtube quality? no shit meant on youtubers, but theres a reason this site is free.

Jenna marbles was probably the cheapest and least thought out videos, but damn if I didn't watch every one because she was so entertaining! I didn't care what she did! She was th reason people watched, not the content itself.

They know we don’t care. But it would probably hurt their egos to be known only as that goofy ghost-hunting channel. Higher production and they can tell themselves “we’re basically making high quality television”

I literally just wanted more Buzzfeed unsolved. I just want them to give commentary on a story. I only listen most of the time. I barely ever watch it

It's crazy that they said filming their ghost show costs about $100,000 each episode while also telling us that they need more money for higher production value 😭

This is what happens when you make a company but neglect marketing. It’s incredibly important to know what your consumers want, what the value of your product is, and what your profit margin is going to be. I’m not an avid watcher but I know that their fan base has been begging for more regular content schedules for years, yet they tunnel vision into high production quality every single time.

Change the intro and riots begin.

If I ever meet Amanda, I'm introducing myself by taking off my sunglasses and saying "that's it, that's my intro" and then hoping she thinks I'm cute UwU

That’s it, that’s my breaking point 🥸

Tbh, it's not really going to affect my enjoyment of it if they're in Italy or Georgia. I'm not at either place and will likely never go to them. They're going to all those places for themselves and trying to tell us how much we want to see it.

@@Firsona Will you sign up for Watcher?

@@user-rh1kq9xj9c Nah. They were buried in my subscribe list and I more or less stopped watching videos from them awhile back. Think the last one I saw was one of the puppet episodes.

Hell, that's the only reason Adam Sandler keeps making movies...

@@user-rh1kq9xj9c Don't think so. They were buried in my sub list a long time ago. Last thing I watched and really enjoyed by them was a puppet history episode.

This was my immediate thought too. Given how involved it would have been to make an entire streaming site, why didn't they do any proof-of-concept work first?? This whole thing could have been avoided if they just (gasp) asked their audience what they wanted!

Right? A $6 a month "Join" channel membership with an exclusive series seems like a much smarter move! In the age of a dozen-or-so sites dominating the entire internet experience, why are we trying to go off-platform? How do you get more viewers to a new site without blowing tons of money on advertising? A member-exclusive series or two would have people who want ALL Watcher content to join, they would make memes and inside jokes and gifs that give the viewers not paying FOMO, and it would be an extra money stream for them. I know the answer of why they went with their own platform is to dodge KZfaq's fickle censorship and algorithms and to take money directly and not w a cut off the top but I just can't see people this day-and-age willingly paying ANOTHER streaming service.

they could have easily asked their patreon supporters for input seeing as they are obviously already invested enough to pay for more content fans live that kind of stuff, being able to know what's going on behind the scenes and potentially helping the channel they enjoy grow into something bigger/better

I'm surprised they didnt at first attempt a crowdfund for something first, like as Ryan mentions a season of Ghost Files in the UK. I feel like people would much rather drop a 5-15$ one time thing to fund that season rather than a reoccurring fee theyll forget about without the promise of the show they want.

This is such a good point.

great comment

I think their buzzfeed start is also the reason they plan their business model as having so many employees. Buzzfeed was structured as a media company, not a youtube channel. That’s the way they know how to make content

Idk, I think being the Internet Villain for the Week can be good for business especially if you have a redemption moment. But burning the audience you already have is never good

Idk even Shane Dawson managed to claw his way back.

I thought I heard them say that too. I think it was Ryan if I am not mistaken. I wonder if they deleted that from their original video right away? I lot of us remember hearing it. That’s gaslighting.

Particularly when they have like 2 "talent" people

Apparently many, if not most, of their employees are friends and family members. (This is what I’ve seen in various comments sections, not sure of its veracity to be fair)

a lot are professional contacts from buzzfeed/ friends which definitely makes their position harder from a business decision standpoint

I mean last I recall Smosh had 30ish full time employees (though that’s probably higher since the Ian Anthony merger) but Smosh has a dedicated studio, four channels, puts out content nearly every day and all they have is KZfaq memberships for BTS and a handful of live shows

From my friend who watched their channel its basically friends and family that would cause issues if they fired/let them go. Which again bad planning on their part

Seconding your comment, it's perfectly said. I only watched PH and LOVED Mystery Files -- so their other shows, and the little one off things like gaming(?) and reading user submitted stories, I just figured were things to fill upload slots while they produced/researched/ect their higher-costing shows. So not a super fan, but enjoyed the shows that I liked. Now like, I don't think I want to come back if they were so quick to toss us aside without any thought. WE were the "filling time" viewers, I guess?

Me too. It seems ryan and steven already know and anticipated there will be backlash to their statement. Now, i don't feel like re sub to their channel. The apology video showed up like they are just crying,makes me cynical towards them. Why showing the cry face 🙄

And maybe they never were. Eat the rich sounds good until you get rich.

@@melissakivanakurniawan1495 Don't forget the sad couch! significantly cheaper looking than the first announcement couch.

Hi Keyan!

Seeing that creator’s i love also like OTHEE creator’s I love is always wild. Pleasure to see you here

Keyan, please start a streaming service with Quinton with a show where the gimmick is you consistently make him weird scrambled eggs

Yeah, that didn't sound right to me either. I was thinking along the lines of sponsorships fro things that are true crime or spooky-adjacent: like escape rooms, mystery solving games, etc. I've seen these sponsorships before. That could have been a slam dunk and I'm sure those kind of sponsors wouldn't ask them to water down the content.

​@@TheGhostofAbigailMills I remember a company called Hunt a Killer, some sort of mystery puzzle subscription box, that did a bunch of sponsorships a few years ago. While there are definitely companies that don't venture into true crime/paranormal areas, there are still plenty willing to. While not a true crime KZfaqr, TomSka has a steady sponsorship with Surfshark VPN and even made a video about it and how lenient they are with the nonsense he pulls in his sponsor segments and content. It just seems like a cop-out excuse to dump their money problems on the viewers.

They also have an ad break/brand deal in almost every video

I think she was talking about Google Adsense specifically there. Sponsorship is another revenue stream.

@@mhawang8204 I can see that, but they could easily bargain for a higher rate from sponsors to cover that

Hard agree.

This whole thing has kind of made me wonder whether they thought they were too good for Buzzfeed - That their frustration wasn't about being poorly appreciated, having their ideas shot down, or being made to feel like a cog in a machine, but that they thought the "cheapness" of the production was beneath them. Like they were embarrassed not to have movie studio set-ups and bitterly wished they were on TV instead of the internet. I now can't escape the idea that they don't actually like being KZfaqrs. In which case, why should I watch them? I like KZfaq.

Honestly, hello games is such a good example of a company learning and growing from their past mistakes/terrible decisions and then continuing to be a better company. That's the kind of growth and apology communities want to see. It's easy to just apologize and say you're going to do better but to actually make good on those promises without relapsing back is rare.

Presumably hello games never meant to create a bad game, it was just overhype and massively underdelivered within the time of the release

Hello Games is a shit example. They 100% meant to create a bad game, and if anyone ever tells you otherwise, just remember that 100% of the media PR leading up to the release of No Man's Sky was all fraud. Not doctored, not edited, no exaggerated--it was pure fabrication. Some of the 'gameplay' videos they showed during interviews with Sean Murray were, in fact, not even made in the game's engine or using it, featuring assets made exclusively for the showcase, and in some cases with features that are STILL not in the game eight years later. NMS has had defenders since day one, when half of the game's players couldn't get on and play and the other half were met with one of the worst, least finished games ever made, pushed out by a company with a track record of lies so massive if they had been headquartered in the US they would have been criminally liable for fraud, with a release so fucked up and provably malicious that it forced the seven biggest digital game retailers on the internet to literally redo their entire suite of refund policies just to host all of the people defrauded by Hello Games. These defenders have been trying to gaslight people about the game being fun and attempting to set it up as a maligned dark horse, an indie game scraping by however it can, and it took many years of heavy updates and complete overhauls to get to a place to where it's been a successful campaign--which leads us to these comments. Hello Games is an unfortunate, sinister company that never intended to get called out on under-developing their sole claim to fame, and if the company ever ever wanted to make money or push out future games fixing No Man's Sky was their only choice--they should not be lauded for crossing the finish line of a race they never even intended to enter, some nearly six years after it first went on sale, and they do not deserve the chance to be praised going forwards until they manage to do more than climb back up the drop into hell they created themselves to meet their biggest fans at what is, in the end, still a neutral position. Hello Games is not your friend; they will not make a better game if you cover up for them like this, nor will they reward you for your loyalty. They are a company who set out to screw people over, and did right by customers years later only once they failed to do so--being a smaller company doesn't change that. Lowering the bar to make Hello Games out to be anything close to a good example or a good company will only make such intentionally poor releases more possible in the future.

​@@LevyathynSweetie, are you okay? I think you've spent way too much time on the internet to be holding this type of grudge against a game studio that made mistakes and rectified them over time...

​@@Levyathyn least deranged gamer rage moment lol

Same! It bothers me when videos have a significant amount of written/visual content that isn’t spoken out loud. I click off so fast

God, that sucks. I'm sorry you are going through that, it can be a horrible process. I hope things turn around for you. Hang in there ❤️

I’m so sorry that happened. You will get a better place and land on your feet soon. Sending a virtual hug.

yes same unless i’m sitting down to eat and watch a video i mostly listen to stuff. it’s like having the radio on while working. i also think from an accessibility pov it’s better to have all the information you need in audio for blind people/subtitles for the deaf

@@wen33 this is super interesting! I've always assumed because youtube is a video platform that creators should cater their content to that.. otherwise why not just have a podcast? But if ppl just wanna listen then that's easier for everyone lol

KZfaq goes out of its way to unnecessarily age restrict and demonetize videos. How can anyone feel morally inclined to financially support these practices?

​@@Creampuf1977 my convenience is more important than being morally pure in the eyes of people like you Also providing traffic to the site is financial support in itself

@@Creampuf1977cannot cope with ads

@@Creampuf1977 KZfaq premium is the only way I can watch ad-free on my tv, because I can't download adblockers there. Plus youtube/google's war on adblockers meaning they're constantly being shut down or needing updates to block some new code youtube have added to override them. It's a mess, but YT Premium is just easy even if it is overpriced.

Stop using YT altogether then ​@@Creampuf1977

How about a 2001 nokia. That has worse quality than a potato

Right?? Like, I wouldn't pay, but I also know that other people LOVE that kind of stuff!

They said in another vid that the company almost went under during covid but Steven's decisions saved it btw. I don't think they did this out if greed, I think they did this out of desperation to try to save themselves from eventually having to fire people or possibly go under if they don't make changes to their business model. Everyone wants to immediately jump to greed instead of trying to understand other possible reasons for why they tried to do this.

@@-xxMelissaxx-I get where you’re coming from because that’s how I feel emotionally and I’m sympathetic to Watcher. But I believe the expectation is they make hard decisions and likely lay off staff if they can’t afford their current production.

@@-xxMelissaxx- I understand you, but people are also quick to pin the blame on Steven alone. They're all adults who are capable of thinking ahead, and instead of talking to their fanbase to get ideas, they went full steam ahead with their decision and only rolled it back when the backlash came out. With the ways they earn income, they're fine. They could have just reduced production costs and gone back to a simpler video format. But they made a bad decision, and they have to learn from it. I sympathize with making mistakes, but I don't sympathize with the way they handled this.

So...the hype backfired???