man this is realy bs. first time i got genuily tired of a boss after demon prince in ds3

Yes agreed. It's really unnecessary. The amount of hours I spent to learn to dodge it, is really far beyond what "normal" players would go through and it's really a gate keeper attack (ofc you can learn it, but that should not require a slow motion analysis 😅). Else the fight would be a 12/10.

@@TPhGames yup you either learn how to dodge a completely bs attack and she does it when you're close then you're screwed Or use a mimic and make the fight unsatisfying

This exactly

I thought trying to beat and learn a seemingly impossible move is pretty cool

Apparently prerelease Waterfowl didn’t track nearly as much. It actually looked easier to dodge. This version really hate

yes it's a terrible attack =/ They should reduce the tracking of the first dash at least.

if this attack could be interrupted with any jump attack, that fight would be a lot more balanced

At a certain point this attack becomes the only difficulty of the fight if you dont figure out how to avoid it

Not fight, the fight is a 10/10, the attack ruins the entire thing tho :/

@@alexandergray5977 light and medium rolls got buffed, you can dodge at close range without messing with the tracking but there still is a trick to it.

haha yes 😅 I practices dodging that stupid attack for hours. It's terrible

Which is the only attack that makes this fight hard

Jump attack, light hit, procs on maces and katanas give a small stun but her dodging any punishable dashes is a glaring problem in phase two

Maybe it's a strength build problem I don't understand but I think her recovery time is fine, she has low poise and quite the low hp pool, and there are a lot of attacks that I can constantly punish with a jumping heavy attack, proceeded with an L2 or LB dual katana flurry, which I don't do if she moves after the jumping attack

Malenia has no flows. she has different rules but they are consistent. it's very easy to do no damage once you fully understand the fight. check my channel for few demonstration. I am not trying to promote my channel, I am not a KZfaqr

@@Aignith easy no damage malenia? lol

They wont, miyazaki is a chide

haha OK that is unfortunate. I have seen it 3-times in a row, but it#s extremely rare - at least if you play melee. She does not far more often, if you attack her with ranged attacks.

Yes esp. this attack is simply unfair. I spent really a lot of time figuring out and learn dodging this attack. It's just too much and not fun. Everything else is pretty awesome though.

Whoah that reference takes me back lol

Wow what obscure reference..lol dope though..

dog I feel you. She's killed me over 350 times. I refuse to summon or use my spirits. I will fight her as I did Radahn. And I will win. Eventually. I'll always think of her as Teresa from now on. If I could just get past this damn waterfowl dance I'd almost have her.

Shit now I want to watch that anime again

Happy you found this breakdown helpful. Good luck and much success in your fight!

haha no problem, hope it was helpful 😄

the fromsoft foot polygon count finally coming in handy

Sorry for the late answer 😅 Really well done and I'm glad my guide helped you. One of the toughest bosses (if not the toughest) in Souls for sure (it depends a bit on preference, situation and build, etc). So you can be proud to beat her like that. This attack is also not well designed. It should not take a guide like this (and me grinding this attack for 15+ hours) to overcome it. Playing without summons here is a huge challenge. I "recently" (few weeks ago) beat her in my Level 1 Run (also without parry, no shield, no summons, no ashes) on stream and it was quite tough 😂 I was completely out of training dodging it. As a result it took me 17 to 20 hours to beat her. So I can relate, that final try I had to dodge 5 Waterfowl Dances and nearly died a few times. I still want to grind Level 1 no damage taken.

Thank you ^^ I really tried my best to explain it. I also noticed at some point, that you can circle without sprinting if you start moving early enough, which is even very consistent for me. Only if you are very late on the dodge, e.g. because you were still in an attack animation, then you have to sprint to get behind her enough, it's really tricky then.

I felt that too! It's like if you have a high damage output or DPS she gets mad and does it until she breaks you and saps you of all hope!

I think That she uses this attack at 70-80% health first time and if she is able to heal by hitting the player And again reach that 70-80% mark, she will do it again

Thank you ^^ Yes for sure. I tried some different talismans and noticed that I suddenly survived her grab attack and received far less damage overall. Soi thought it's a good hint for this video too.

Good thing then that she’s probably not dead yet and you’ll likely have another chance to fight her as a true godess of rot.

Thank you, glad you liked it and that it helped you ^^ Yes I completely agree. It's out of place. To find out how to dodge it when the game came out, I practiced and experimented for like 15 hours, including recording the attack and looking at it in slow motion. It's just unnecessary.

@@TPhGames That's an admirable dedication to a goal and I'm very appreciative of your kindness to share your hard earned knowledge with us. People who downed her when the game was fresh are the true gigachads xD

Thank you as well. Glad you liked the guide 👍

no problem, glad it was helpful 😄 Yes Waterfowl Dance is a terrible attack. They should reduce the tracking of the first dash.

Glad to hear that you found it helpful. I wish you much success and good luck! I assume most people who made a guide did not grind this fight for 20+ hours 😂

Glad to hear ^^ Yes I feel running away can be also a bit inconsistent. You often still get hit lightly and you need to be on low equip load I think. Very impressive, that you got the close range dodge first try 😮 It's imo quite tough timing wise. Though the later you start moving, the more difficult it becomes. I guess i explained it well 😂

Thank you ^^ A few things are I found out since I made this guide are missing though: - There is a weird back roll dodge, that is possible; not sure how consistent it is yet. - And you can cancel Waterfowl Dance with one Freezing Pot (as long as Malenia has no frostbite state). This works 2 (or 3?) times instantly, then you need an additional pot to freeze her. - Also there is this lock the camera out and circle around her move to close range dodge WFD. It seems to be more consistent than my method.

Congrats and thank you ^^

Good to know ^^ I assumed it worked too, but did not remember (also tried her early on with a cold proc sword). The reason I picked the turtle shield was that it gives Stamina Regeneration (so a lot of people might find it interesting) and it's really easy to get, so I went with that. But ofc other shields would work as well. Vow of Indomitable is a good hint too.

@@TPhGames Turtle Shield was a good pick pre-nerf. But since the physical negation is lower now, i think it's better to go with a %100 physical negation shield if your intend is to block the first flurry. Can always craft Pickled Turtle Neck for stamina regen if you are into that. But obviously you can keep it offhand just to get stamina regen if you are not gonna use it for blocking.

@@hakimonn thats a terrible strategy because she gains health every time you block, regardless if you take damage. You're better off using bloodhound step, or vow of indomitable

@@gwynbleidd1917 I didn't mean to block the entire combo. You can block the first flurry and dodge the second and third. As demonstrated in this video. It's not a bad strategy at all. Easy and accesible for most builds.

@@hakimonn except that you're literally healing her every time you block. It's literally a bad strategy, regardless of your delusions.

Thank you ^^ Glad you found it helpful.

Yes agreed =/ I guess once you get it down, the fight becomes cool, but the way to that point, is just too long and frustrating even for Souls.

@@TPhGames agreed I am able to pretty consistently cancel her dance with my frost bombs (which I also do with her clone attack I don’t like that one either but not as much as waterfowl) but you have to have really good timing 1 extra roll or drink form your flask and you are screwed You may be happy to hear that I have successfully beat her legit twice as if this comment

Oh that is an interesting technique as well. Nice to hear. Congrats and well done ^^ (Unfortunately I look far too infrequent into the comments here, esp. over the holidays 😅)

Thank you much appreciated ^^ (sorry for eh late answer)

Thank you :) Glad it was helpful ^^

No problem, glad you liked it and found it helpful!

Really unfortunate 😅 As said in the video, I had it it almost 2 times in a row. I think she did a kick or something in between. Can be really unfun.

@@TPhGames yeah me and buddy were trying to use anything besides RoB to kill her and we almost had it too but if she didn’t do the waterfowl dance twice we would’ve probably gotten it lol

wow that sounds devastating =/ Yes Rob is basically her hard counter 😅 It's a ridiculously strong weapon

@@TPhGames I just found out with a lot of buffs and the raptor feathers claw talisman, Millicent prothesis and rotten winged talisman, and lord of blood exultation with white mask while using dual godskin peelers one with frost and one with seppuku makes short work of her

she did it 3 times for me once

Thank you much appreciated :) I hope it helps people dealing with this annoying attack.

no problem, glad people find the video so helpful ^^ Yes once you can deal with Waterfowl Dance it becomes a lot more fun fighting her

Yes they should reduce the tracking of the first dash. It's imo a terribly designed attack in its current form.

Thank you ^^ Yes this attack is really nonsensical. Could be a 12/10 boss fight without it, I agree. I guess it at times also feels a bit random (really hard to predict what she is doing next). I figured it out by accident that you can get behind her before she dashes and got less damage. From there I experimented with that a bit but I was highly inconsistent. I grinded this boss for 15 hours or something and after that I was decent, but still not consistent. By now I'm OK-ish, but for "no damage taken" I still need to practice some more. It's hard to believe that this attack is in the game at all. It feels really off. I think if they would reduce the tracking of the first dash, it would fit a bit more. I also struggle with her Phantom Spirits if I'm too close (or whatever this attack is called), but here I know it's my fault for messing up the timings.

Good luck! Hope my videos helps. Yes the camera spin really is a problem. It often had me dodging in thee wrong direction when I started practicing this. Waterfowl Dance is really annoying and has too much tracking on the first dash. Also when you fighter on higher terrain in the boss arena, you can also get into trouble during her last dash.

nice, it was really tough for me to get somewhat consistent with it 😄 Hope it takes you less time.

haha, well glad it still helped you that one time 😅 But yes can happen that she does not use it.

I did not want to advertise without permission 😅

yes it actually is, but this attack is sadly quite bonkers and depending on the situation very difficult to dodge 😅 No idea what Fromsoft was thinking.

Glad you found it helpful. Yes the hint with looking at her foot is really helpful. There is also this variant of this where you lock out the camera and circle around her very close and run out of it. Interestingly this only works when the camera is locked out. I have not learnt that technique yet, but plan on trying that out as well. Still "my" current technique works quite well too. Only If I'm a bit away from her, it gets really difficult to impossible.

Thank you too for commenting, glad you found it helpful! 😄

Thank you, much appreciated! I unfortunately rarely upload videos here, so subs are hard to get. On my main channel I cover Lord of the Rings lore stuff and it's better there sub-wise (almost 45k), but that's also where most of my video output capabilities go 😅 Really need to make some gaming related content for this channel again.

Yes I guess the approach can make a difference. I didn't use a shield on my first playthrough, so Malenia took me the longest. The 2nd Godfrey/Hoarah Loux I got in like 10-15 tries (irrelatively fast). Maliketh also took a long time for me, but more because his timings are my Kryptonite (took for ever to learn them), but he dies very fast. I played with a normal straight sword (Lordsworn's Straight Sword ) for the most part and later just with the Uchi and glass cannon-ish, so some of the bosses took a lot of time 😄

awesome, well done ^^ And thank you, glad it helped :)

Thank you, glad you found it helpful ^^

Yes it's a nonsense attack 😅 The rest of her stuff is more straight forward to dodge though, but also very difficult.

@@TPhGames Yeah I am really enjoying countering her other attacks. Honestly, this would be one of my favorite bosses if it weren’t for this one attack.

awesome congrats, glad my guide helped ^^ (sorry for the late answer)

congrats ^^ glad my video was helpful (sorry for the late answer)

Thank you, much appreciated. Glad you found this guide helpful. I make videos explaining stuff on YT for some years now, so I have some practice I guess 😄 (also sorry for the late answer; busy on my main channel right now)

It's really a terrible move. They should simply lower the tracking on the first dash. Dodging this one close range is really tough and as you say, it feels a bit unintended.

@@TPhGames I've had to resort to Bloodhounds step in my rl1 run because I cannot for the life of me do the close method.

yes that works pretty reliable in contrast. I really needed to grind the close dodge for hours to get somewhat consistent with it.

Glad it helped you, much success ^^ Also the roll distance on light weight was increased in the current patch, which can for sure help against her.

She still does this as of 1.07 XD. Call me a masochist but this is my favorite fight in the game so far, not just because of the lore and the circumstances you fight her in, but also because she is fair, for me at least. She gets stunned by attacks just like you do, she is relatively small to other bosses just like you and her reach is relatively short as well (though it can be surprising if you get cocky). She can heal and sustain just like the player, and when she takes too many hits, she steps back and recovers just like you have to. You have your freeze and bleed buildups, she has scarlet rot. You have very strong spells and ashes of war, she has waterfowl dance. You have a brain, and she has clever, many might say unfair and cheating AI. She has a LOT of HP, and you have....significantly less. Maybe it isn't fair in that aspect haha.

Also, she has hyper armour at times and you have I-frames and shield block and parry. I think I've listed it all. Have a good day.

Good luck. I also still have to grind a hitless try 😅 Usually I fail when she cats her phantoms in phase 2. I'm just too stupid to dodge that - I know it's my fault.

@@TPhGames that's quite a cheesy strat but now i use crystal darts to trigger her AI from afar, and shield block if i'm too close, works pretty well. P2 wrecks me tho

Yes this attack is really nonsensical. They should just reduce its tracking (also sorry for the late answer)!

Yes I have seen it phase two by now as well. Even 3 times in a row 😅 I think in theory it's possible in phase 1 as well, but it's extremely rare. Very sad when it happens.

@@TPhGames if this absolute heathen of a boss did that move to me 3 times in a row then I'd uninstall before her last attack even hit me, 2 times had me questioning 27 years of life choices so 3 times and id probably quit my job to go be a rice farmer in Vietnam or something never to touch a videogame again

Thank you, much appreciated ^^

haha agreed :D It's a cheap attack. Clones (Spirit Phantoms) are OK-ish, but still the timing is tough and the damage brutal. I agree with the final DLC boss 😅

@@TPhGames From's next game should give the players more speed and bloodborne quick step. They really pushed the limit of how broken some of these bosses can be in comparison to our speed

Thank you ^^ Yes this boss really crazy. Ofc if you grind the boss for 15 hours, you make the progress and it becomes much easier, but I have to admit it should not take that long to learn one attack. It's really a nonsensical attack.

Thank you ^^ Yes I'm also not a fan of this attack. Takes far too long to learn. They could simply reduce the tracking of the first dash and I think it would be a better attack.

@@TPhGames Definitely.

Yes if you have the distance that might work as well, but I think if you play melee and a bit more aggressive, you often won't have the needed distance. You might also run out of space to run.

You are most likely one of the few. And I guess it also depends on how you dodge the attack and what build you played. But imagine: short range weapon + being stuck in an attack animation when she flies up for Waterfowl Dance -> that results in a extremely precise dodge, that feels like it's not even intended by the game or your instant death, if you aren't extremely tanky. The close range dodge gets even harder if you have more equip load (medium and i think on heavy it's either impossible or pretty close to frame perfect). Ofc you can use a shield and block the first dash, which is easy. Or you can run away if you run early enough, have light equip load and jump at the end. You can also easy dodge it with Bloodhound step or try to stagger her out of this attack. There are options for sure to make it easy, but in all other configurations it's a pain to deal with. I have practiced this attack for countless hours and I still can't dodge it close range to 100% (maybe 70-80%). The later I'm able to move (e.g. being stuck in an attack animation), the more precise it gets and if you fail, esp. in challenge runs, you are dead. In my successful Level 1 Run attempt I had to dodge it 5 times. 3 times in phase two, where it can appear out of nowhere. And I think that is why a lot of people hate this attack. It should not take so much effort to learn dodging one attack. The rest is a 12/10 boss fight, but this attack feels cheap, over-tuned (too mich tracking on the first dash) and out of place. The only way to deal with it without being able to dodge it close range, is play more passively, which ruins the fight imo. That is why I think it's not a good designed attack, because it's like the Sword of Damocles above you and you have to be ready for it at all times, esp. in phase 2. I know though once you are able to dodge it somewhat consistently, it feels good, but getting there takes a long time. I have seen so many challenge runs uploaded online defeating Malenia, and you see this attack like 2-3 times at most. You rarely see tries with 5+ Waterfowl Dances, because people will usually fail at some point to dodge it and just die. PS: also at release it took some time for people (me included) to dodge it close range.

yeah i agree i beat her using radahn's full armor and weapons and i remember when she suddenly fly in front of me i used to dodge right but she still doing like a 50% damage to me but the rest of the swings she does i managed to perfectly dodged them but for sure after many attempts of dying to it XD thank u for replying already drop a sub and a like appreciate your effort take care man@@TPhGames

much appreciated, thank you, I always (almost) enjoy answering comments ^^

there is a variety of reasons for that. I experienced that too. E.g. Sometimes she is stubborn and won't do it at 60-70%, and it happens at 50%, but that was in my experience more an exception, but it can happen (the 60% and 40% thresholds are hard coded triggers; the 60% threshold just "unlocks" the move and the probability of her using it increases significantly; the 40% one is similar, but it considers the cooldown of the attack). Maybe you were just before the threshold and she did an attack that you can punish a lot, so that she gets a lot of damage in a short time, so it looks like she did it at 50%. If you proc cold or bleed or stagger her, when she just wants to start with waterfowl dance (on the first few frames of the animation), you probably won't notice that it was interrupted and then it goes on Cooldown and she does it much later in the fight out of nowhere it seems (had this a lot with my bleeding g build). All can happen. If the fight takes to long she can do it a third time as well. I assume even more than 3 times.

@@TPhGames Thanks :) I just killed her with restrictions set by myself... melee only, no magic, no shield, no summon, no great rune. Timing of her waterfowl dance was still strange but finally I did it~ See you again in NG, Malenia :)

congrats ^^

@@TPhGames Thank U :D

Thank you ^^

Thanks for the hint. probably have to test, when I have a bit more time. I only know it worked on 1.04 when I made the guide. Patchnotes did not mention anything, but that means nothing when it comes to Fromsoft games 😅 I write to you again when I tried it out.

​@@TPhGames any differences? My mind won't let me move onto the dlc until I defeat this bitch.

=/ Yes I can see how frustrating this must be for a lot of players. She is imo the hardest boss in Elden Ring and this specific attack is just badly designed and total bs. The close range dodge feels like it's not even intended, which just makes the fight stupid. On paper a 12/10 boss, but imo ruined by this attack. It took me like 15 hours of practice to figure out how to handle this attack and I'm not even close to be 100% consistent with dodging it. Luckily she is optional and you can beat the game without fighting her. Maybe level up a lot (get enough the survivability maybe up to 60 Vigor), summon an ash and try out bloodhound step or using a good shield. If nothing helps: respec your stats (dexterity and arcane), bring the Katana Rivers of Blood to +10 and just destroy her. Every bleed proc interrupts her. One could even try fighting phase 1 without a bleeding weapon and switch to a bleeding weapon in phase 2, so you get the procs faster (after very bleeding proc you will need more hits to proc bleeding again). Maybe that helps, if you have not beaten her yet. (Sorry for the late answer)

no problem, happy it was helpful and thanks for commenting 👍

Yes, it can happen in phase 1, but it's extremely rare. I have put in countless hours into this boss fight (like 30 hours or something) and i have seen that maybe twice so far in Phase 1. It can ofc depend on some stuff I always do the same, that lead to her not doing this, but i think it just happens rarely.

Some boss fights are for sure far too annoying. Currently play a level 1 run (also with no summons) and some fights were incredibly frustrating, while others are very easy. Took me so much time and practice to beat Malenia Level 1. Mogh Lord of Blood was also very difficult. I think most bosses are well enough designed, but some are overtuned and Malenia is one of them. Waterfowl Dance is not a well designed attack.

@@TPhGames yeah I’m definitely talking more about late game bosses. Earlier in the game everything felt like a pretty fair challenge.

Nice and well done, happy it was helpful for you :) Much fun on your further journey through Elden Ring!

Thanks for the confirmation. I also played her once with a clod proc build (before recording this video), but forgot how this interaction worked exactly.

I'm not locking the camera out and you can dodge with the camera locked. You can do this with camera lockout and circle, which is maybe more consistent. Some people place lockout on a different button. But it's possible to do with standard buttons. It's pure muscle memory grind. At some point you get fast 😅