How to Explain Simple Organic Church in 2 Minutes on a Napkin

Рет қаралды 17,618

11 жыл бұрын

In deze clip legt Roy McClung in twee minuten uit wat het verschil is tussen een eenvoudige kerk en een kerk zoals we veel zien in de westerse maatschappij. Leerzaam en handig om te weten.
In this clip Roy McClung tells in two minutes what the difference is between simple church and institutional church, as we know church in the western society. Good to know en to learn from.

Пікірлер: 16

@rorywynhoff1549 6 жыл бұрын

Very nice, very... simple!

@vv8134 5 жыл бұрын

Awesome. ❤️

@orastreet 11 жыл бұрын

Brilliant. Thanks!

@SpeakerBuilder 5 жыл бұрын

I would argue that when the four walls are added, all in the middle is lost. This has been my extensive experience with over a dozen churches in my area.

@taagard4609 4 жыл бұрын

I would agree except say "most" in the middle is lost. Some small amount remains. The box elements can be shown to be directly disobedient to specific scriptures. Showing these Biblical corruptions would be "rebuke and correction", two of the purposes of God's word. 2 Tim. 3:16,17 It would not be bashing, criticizing demeaning, but in self-justification and flesh defense mechanism, many saints would accuse me of giving these scriptures. We should not fear false accusation.

@lifecreator77 10 жыл бұрын

great!!!!

@Ironboots123 5 жыл бұрын

Using corporations as an example the flatter the organization the more efficient the organization and less bureaucracy The top down matrix bureaucracy organization is a massive expensive slow moving machine

@stevekerp1 5 жыл бұрын

The box is a Christian Community Center. The triangle is the ekklesia. The two are not the same, and the problem comes with confusing or conflating them. I have no problem with Christian Community Centers. They are generally safe places to go, and you can take the kids. Play basketball or foosball, hear an inspiring talk and listen to some good music. Have a community pot-luck dinner and collect clothing for the homeless. But it's NOT the ekklesia and, as any "church pastor" will tell you (if he's honest), being saved is not a requirement for membership. Just speak the lingo and behave yourself, support the organization and "play nice." This is a very useful distinction without hostility toward the "big box." Thanks, Roy.

@taagard4609 5 жыл бұрын

Steve, you don’t yet realize the box is such a severe convolution of Christian community. The triangle is the true and obedient expression of Christian community. The box is a severe marginalization of it so that only a tiny amount of it takes place. The box is: 1. Dominated by strict one way communication by one man. This is the opposite of the 58 “one another” instructions and the opposite of EVERY member of the body being a verbal participant. 2. A form that forces the saints to CONSUME 84% of their “giving” to pay for it. Only 16% of “giving” is left to go beyond the “needs” of the givers. This is a reversal of giving. Simple church frees 100% of giving to go beyond the givers. 3. A division of God’s people into clergy and laity. This division is severely dysfunctional to the “ONE” body of Christ. 4. A division of the family by separating children into age groups. If there was 100% mutual participation driven community, it would not be boring and in engaging for children. I am not “attacking” or being “hostile” to the box. I am “rebuking, correction, and instructing in righteousness”. We are all called to “speak the truth in love”. If I have said something that is not true, let me know. The box is disobedient. God has used the box in spite of the box. We should seek for God to use us for our obedience, not in spite of our disobedience and then perpetuate it and guard it like it’s obedient.

@KennyBare 4 жыл бұрын

@@taagard4609 in theory, that all sounds pretty good. But when I tried this whole organic church thing, it was pretty ugly. It really just turned into movie night with a prayer and arguing about the scriptures for 20 minutes. I feel like open participation meetings like what Frank Viola described in Pagan Christianity should be fostered in already existing institutions and facilitated by leadership. Starting from scratch is throwing the baby out with the bathwater

@taagard4609 4 жыл бұрын

@@KennyBare It isn't "theory" at all. It's scripture. Hebrews 10:24-25 24 And let US (all of us) consider how to stir up ONE ANOTHER to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to MEET TOGETHER, as is the habit of some, but encouraging ONE ANOTHER, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. Clergyism is raw Roman Catholicism. Movie night doesn't sound like this scripture. Mere discussion is not organic either. Existing institutions are fully trained in coming completely unprepared to speak truth and with no confidence to respond to others in spirit and truth. They are trained for expert driven performance. I'm attending a church where they have pushed small groups dilligently for 20 years, but can't get 50% of the people to show up for small groups. Their small groups are mostly micro expert performance groups. The 7 day a week diligence of "let us draw near" + "let us hold fast our confession of faith" + "let us consider how we can stir up one another to love and good works" is never developed. Why? Clergyism cannot lead by "example". They can only lead by lecturing. That isn't obedient leadership. That's perpetual dependency carnality. A hired man cannot "fully train" his students to "be like him". Luke 6:40 Clergyism and institutionalism are not babies to keep. They are the dirty bath water. Not everything Paul did was fruitful. The Corinth church severely corrupted. That does not mean you give up on obedience to practicing the true IDENTITY of believers.

@caroleimani9754 Жыл бұрын

But, what is the lingo?

@LearningToFollowGod 8 жыл бұрын

For more on organic church check out the new book: "Beyond Church--An Invitation To Experience The Lost Word Of The Bible, Ekklesia," available in paperback and Kindle at Amazon at www.amazon.com/Beyond-Church-Lost-Bible-Ekklesia/dp/1518744567/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1450264944&sr=1-1

@marknunes8444 3 жыл бұрын

I think the key is a group of people who come together to study the Bible. You study the Bible you will see that the whole Bible is about Love. The God of the Old Testament is just as loving as that of the New Testament. He seems to be really hard on individuals who disobey however that disobedience is almost always an act of extremely selfish unloving behavior. Lot actually is the most righteous person in the Bible because brought the homeless into his home despite the fact people were way more dangerous than they are today. Despite the fact that the people of that city would abuse him for his act. Despite the fact that he had two betrothed daughters and no other males in the house. He took a huge chance. He took a much bigger chance than we would take today by bringing a homeless person into our homes today. Lot truly was every bit as righteous as the Bible says he is.

@paulmichaelortiz8642 5 жыл бұрын

How about loving self - love your neighbor...as yourself But l like your simple illustration, pretty on da money... And to continue w/simplicity; no church is gonna grow until a couple things are obeyed like (GO) and preach/teach da gospel - if We don’t >GO< DO NOT EXPECT NO COOPERATION FROM DA Holy Spirit Further mo; Pastors are not da teachers of da church...yeah l said it There is a 5 fold ministry - apostle prophet evangelist (pastor) and teacher Apostles lay down da foundation - Christ and him crucified not da pastor Da teacher teaches da deep stuff - pastors do what? Well Pastor A pastor asked me so u saying lm not supposed to teach I said - l didn’t say that - l am saying that’s not your calling U are a pastor so pastor and stop trying to be this big time preacher Teachers shouldn’t be trying to be pastors’ and and pastors shouldn’t be trying to be teachers I will be finished here shortly, pastors ARE NOT TO BE NO CEO’s THIS IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS - Yet I DID NOT SAY THAT DA HOUSE CAN NOT COMMAND MUCH MONEY... PASTORS - listen to me HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MONEY AT ALL - (DO U HEAR ME)!!!!!!!!!!!!!NOTHING!!!!!! THINK OF ME LIKE A MOSES - plz allow my insanity just 4 a moment and see if your church won’t grow, PASTOR - DO NOT BE THE OWNER OF THE CHURCH BLDG DO NOT HAVE PEOPLE IN YOUR FAMILY TAKE CARE OF (ANY) MONEY - YES AT ALL!! YOU DONT LIKE IT - I DONT CARE - NOW SIT DOWN - UR TURN 2 LISTEN I DONT WANT NO GAY OR EFFEMINATE PEOPLES IN DA CHOIR - SORRY IF U DONT HAVE A LEADER THAT CAN CORRECT YOU - DONT BE TRYING TO GET PEOPLES TO FOLLOW U OH YEAH ITS GETTING HOT IN HERE THE APOSTLE DA PROPHET AND THE EVANGELIST ARE UR BOSS - YOU DONT LIKE IT THEN BECOME AN APOSTLE IF GOD WILL HAVE U