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How to expose SLOG3 using Exposure Indexes (Sony FS7/FX9)
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Күн бұрынFind full-length BTS on Patreon:
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Using exposure indexes are a great way to achieve clean images when using S-Log. The video portrait towards the middle of the video was shot using 200 EI. You technically CAN bake in your exposure index on the FX9, you'd just have to use S-Log3 as your mLUT and bake it into the internal recording. If you don't want to view LOG while monitoring, you'll have to use Gamma Display Assist (ew) or use an external monitor. It's surprising how many people still use Slog2; Slog3 has a higher middle grey (thus slightly noisier), but it has 1.5 stops more dynamic range. This is why Slog2 isn't even found on the FX9; it literally has too much dynamic range.
KZfaq compression was not very forgiving to this video! Here's a link to a Vimeo version to better see the reduced noise floor: vimeo.com/4549...
Video Portrait - vimeo.com/4513...
FX9 Guide: CineEI - • FX9 Guide Version 2 | ...
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@Superjeanmarc 2 жыл бұрын
With the new FX3 firmware upgrade I had to come here to finally find an understandable explanation of Exposure Index .. thank you
@adambobroy1958 7 ай бұрын
One thing I realized on my FX9, is that proxys to the SD card slot show the LUT and show where you set the EI to. so its a good low res reference for an editor to get the general idea of how you exposed on location.
@ihavemetnate 3 жыл бұрын
“I’ll never sell a lut pack” HAHA - subbed
@GastonShutters 3 жыл бұрын
Robert you are one of the best spoken / articulated youtubers out there. Thanks for this video.
@woahpaolo 2 жыл бұрын
When you say you add more light when shooting at a lower EI, are you talking about studio lighting, or iris right?
@MattiasSkoog 4 жыл бұрын
Very well simplified and helpful. Recently bought my FX9 (came from A7iii and FS5ii) but haven’t really shot anything real in S-log. To be totally honest I’ve been afraid to mess things up completely. But this is definitely one field I will explore and develop my skill set in. Thanks for great videos 👍🏻
@robchado 4 жыл бұрын
Using S-log will really help unlock your camera's dynamic range. Grats on the new cam!
@kwasabere 4 жыл бұрын
This was perfect. I use an Fs7 for work and never really got a good explanation for EI settings but this helped a lot
@danielgoncalves3143 10 ай бұрын
Wow, I finally got it! I’ve seen so many vids on this topic, but that was simples and right to the point!
@MatthPeder 2 жыл бұрын
Hmm...I'm still very confused. I'm trying to figure out what the advantage is. So far it just feels like additional steps, IMO.
@soundbreaker2485 10 ай бұрын
It’s just leaning into the fact that iso doesn’t do anything but digitally brighten or darken the image. This just sticks to the display without baking anything in. Shoot iso 800 or iso 3200 and brighten the 800 clip in post to match the 3200 clip and it will have the same noise as the 3200 clip. It’s just a way of tricking the operator to set exposure correctly without relying on the iso as an exposure tool which it really isn’t unless on a dual native iso camera.
@KeemIbarra 4 жыл бұрын
Just bought 2 Rob Chado lut packs! In case I lose one
@robchado 4 жыл бұрын
your footage will now be cinematic
@ProjectOverseer 3 жыл бұрын
@@robchado 😅
@ATADMedia 3 жыл бұрын
Geiew
@ATADMedia 3 жыл бұрын
Mmkmmmmmkmkkm
@ATADMedia 3 жыл бұрын
@@robchado ie
@Ssjutsu 4 жыл бұрын
I think the a7s iii is coming into my setup so I can’t wait to pick your brain more about Sony
@robchado 4 жыл бұрын
It's gon be hot. I'm going to do another livestream once I get mine!
@brianwennersten8456 4 жыл бұрын
"Make sure to buy my Lut pack" made me laugh. I almost stopped watching the moment you said that, so its good you didn't take too long to break the deadpan. Thanks for the well-done videos, keep them coming. Cinema5D's DR test came up with a strange result for the FX9 (11.5 stops) but your images look much cleaner than the FS7. It seems like the FX9 has a stop or two more usable latitude than the FS7. What are your thoughts on the latitude of the FX9?
@gusto519 4 жыл бұрын
dude almost fell out of bed with the LUT comment, had to log back in the next day just to leave a comment and not wake up my partner!
@Spiritcrusher86 4 жыл бұрын
Stunning images as always! Even I'm not a Sony user, the same rules applies to BMD and Pana, thanks for sharing!
@matthewwinne 2 жыл бұрын
Did I miss the "How" part of this video? Don't get me wrong, I learned a few things, but I'm still wondering how I determine the proper EI.
@soundbreaker2485 10 ай бұрын
I think the way to think about it is iso is honestly not an exposure tool it just digitally brightens or darkens the image unless it’s dual native iso. Meaning you may as well adjust the exposure later in post if you are relying on iso for exposure. Light,T-stop,shutter angle are the three real factors of exposure. If you shoot at iso 800 or iso 3200 it’s the same thing. Take it into your NLE or finishing tool of choice like resolve and raise the exposure of the iso 800 shot & the noise will be the same as the 3200 one.
@matthewbushey9455 2 жыл бұрын
Also, great job on the explanation . . . Still waiting on my FX6, so while doing so, I’ll follow those guidelines for high and low-key situations (more or less EI for cleaner files) . . . Also had no clue that I could bake in the EI on the FS7! Super handy. 🙏🏻🙏🏻
@nichegholm1 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for not selling cinematic LUTs! Great video!
@LMNBlog 4 жыл бұрын
Much anticipated, thanks Rob!
@ResizeFilms 4 жыл бұрын
Waiting to get my a7S III, can’t wait to try S-Log 3 gamma with it. Greetings
@joevargas3023 Жыл бұрын
Robert, thank you so much for the clear and informative video! I’m working with the FX6 and a couple of questions still come to my head. In your sample you’re shooting a very dark scene. Why not raise your ISO to the FX9’s “native” higher value and work with the EI proper to that ISO setting to help you expose? I did a portrait test with the FX6 against a living room lit only by some practicals - face was lit with a big source and a rim light in the opposite side from the key. The camera was set set to 800 ISO and 200 EI and I still got noise on the darker areas. The practicals were not in a dimmer, so adding more output to raise the background level was not an option. So, in this case, would it make sense to work with the FX6’s higher ISO to get more background level, then ND down to my desired exposure and set my EI to a lower value? Also, for this low light situations, would you recommend shooting with S-Cinetone? Thank you so much again for the video and your time.🤙🏻
@jalexanderevans 3 жыл бұрын
That sequence was sweet. Wish we couldn't see the light jumping when you turn it up.
@robchado 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, we really needed a DMX board but alas: it’s just for KZfaq. Haha.
@matthewburgess6352 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for producing this. Great stuff, very succinct.
@NARRASSAFilmes 11 ай бұрын
Best explanation
@ctoLarssonTECH 3 жыл бұрын
Fantastic. I never knew what you just told on the ISO vs highlight and shadow retention. Life changer. Thanks man!
@foggymossstudio Жыл бұрын
Nice video!
@claytonmedic 3 жыл бұрын
Mind blown. Watched the video and I few more confused than before 😂
@marinrealestatephotography 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the this video. You will have to make a tutorial on getting great LOG from Sony 8-bit. I know you mentioned about exposing only one-stop over for 8-bit, but how to avoid the funky green and magenta banding over neutral colors?
@evgeniyyavtushenko7653 3 жыл бұрын
External recorder. The issue with banding is because of compression and not bit-depth.
@CinematographyLischkaChannel2 Жыл бұрын
Thank you
@FloNick 3 жыл бұрын
With my new FX6 I feel a little bit confused in CineEI mode. Applied LUTs and EI setting seem to affect both the waveform and zebras without being baked into the recorded s-log3 footage. So for example, with the 709 LUT being turned on, the zebra shows clipping highlights even though nothing is clipping in the s-log3 footage. That being the case, how do you judge exposure and prevent highlights from clipping in run&gun situations?
@jeffkrieger1829 2 жыл бұрын
Yesss how
@johnnypuetz 2 жыл бұрын
You would need to adjust your zebra for s709. White Card is 77% instead of 61%. For run and gun use the auto AE and auto ND function. I recommend to overexpose AE by at least 0.5 to have less noise in the blacks.
@JonasBecker Жыл бұрын
Did you come to a conclusion?
@santoshamin7982 4 жыл бұрын
Thank u for making this...always your content is way too helpful... Cheers...
@ezontheeyesphotography 10 ай бұрын
I normally eyeball it, because unlike my a7iii I don’t have a visible light meter, can you guys help I own the FS7?
@jmd1770 2 жыл бұрын
"I'll never sell a LUT pack" - subscribed
@GastonShutters 3 жыл бұрын
Rock solid explanation.
@Nqrgaard Жыл бұрын
I recently got the FS7 and trying to prepare before I bring it for a shoot, so I shot a KZfaq video to play with it. I heard that I should always overexpose the FS7 by around 1 stop or a little more. How do I ensure I overexpose? I don't have the viewfinder, so I am using my HDMI monitor where I have the standard 709 LUT applied. When using an external monitor the zebras from the camera does not apply, so I can't use the 52% Zebars, which I have also read about. I hope you can help me in the right direction.
@retlwiz 11 ай бұрын
So if EI doesn't actually change your ISO how can it affect the dynamic range of the camera?? Surely changing the EI is just tricking you into exposing differently using the aperture or ND, which doesn't change the DR. But then how do you measure what the "right" exposure is anyway? Are you just eyeballing it on the monitor and guessing that a one or two-stop compensation is going to come out right in Log? I like to know what I'm actually recording in Log and secondly what the LUT is showing me and the director as an image - why can't I just toggle the LUT on and off to check and then at least have Zebras or a decent Waveform to show me the real levels on the Log image as opposed to the LUT? What is the point of measuring exposure on a LUT image at all when that isn't even what you are recording?? Absolute craziness if you have come to Sony from Blackmagic, as I have.
@PS-ys9yg 3 жыл бұрын
the cine EI only shows in the monitor as a reference? i dont understand exactly. thanx
@CameronHall 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this - I don't have too many issues with dynamic range but was recently researching how to get better shadow detail for a shoot on the FX9 recently as a lot of it would have been darker etc. this helped a ton and really looking forward to trying it out on the next shoot. As always will look forward to your next video!
@matthewbushey9455 2 жыл бұрын
“Buy my LUT pack” . . . 😂👏🏻 - got a sub from me! ✌🏻
@justinwood1063 3 жыл бұрын
Great info thanks. I have been shooting with the Fx9 and a lot of what i've read/watched, including from Alistair Chapman, has been that you don't need to overexpose SLOG3 in CineEI mode the same way as the Fs7. From what I've shot so far this just doesn't seem to be true... unless you overexpose you still get noisy shadows...
@TylerMcCool Жыл бұрын
It might not be straight garbage like FS5/FS7 with similar exposure.. but still looks a lot cleaner when "over exposing" - although I think that term is overused ironically.. Just exposure based on the SLOG3 waveform and know 93 IRE clips....
@adambobroy1958 7 ай бұрын
Yeah, 1 stop over and you'll be perfect. Even on fx6 and the fx3 etc 1 stop over seems to be the sweet spot
@BarefootMediaTV Жыл бұрын
so to summarize, your camera is always the high or low base iso, and all the different cine ei options are basically just different viewing LUTs?
@robchado Жыл бұрын
That is correct.
@kaiwenlidirector 2 жыл бұрын
Great video. Would you have a lut pack for sale?
@rovonnrussell 4 жыл бұрын
Omg bro where you been? We miss you
@schoeferfilm 3 жыл бұрын
Very good explained 👍🏻 i am waiting to test this with my new Sony FX6 😂
@Teacher2Polis2XtraRice 3 жыл бұрын
Can i use this camera for photography?
@richorman1422 3 жыл бұрын
This is super helpful. Thank you.
@iancorry9394 3 жыл бұрын
Great content Robert. Thanks!
@iangraham75 3 жыл бұрын
Great video. Thank you!
@DavidSkok1 3 жыл бұрын
Can you please do a video on how you Grade SLog3 in Resolve. In your review of the Sony A7s III you commented that it wasn't great idea to use Color Space Transforms. I personally like using them, and simply place one node before the transform to set the exposure correctly for how the Transform was expecting it. Given that Resolve has a 32 bit color space, there is no clipping, and Color Space Transforms don't clip (unlike LUTs). One reason I have avoided trying to grade without Color Space Transforms is because SGamut3.Cine colors are shifted form Rec.709, and don't immediately look correct. Thanks!
@robchado 3 жыл бұрын
I didn’t say it was a great idea, just that it won’t be ideal when using different exposure indexes. If they work for you, then great! If I’m adjusting exposure pre-transform, then there are only a few adjustments left before getting an image that I’m happy with in Rec709. This is more so applicable to cameras like the FX9 that don’t bake in exposure index when shifting ISO. I’ll definitely do video in the future on how I approach LOG.
@DavidSkok1 3 жыл бұрын
@@robchado Thank you!
@chad8gilmour 2 жыл бұрын
That was a great explanation! Thank you.
@karlvandenhole9342 2 жыл бұрын
Good explanation, thank you, but I'd suggest you to talk slower when explaining things and leave the music part out instead.
@JohnLuna 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this info! I just learned how ISO changes your dynamic range. I'm a Panasonic mirrorless user lol.. do you rely on the numbers that Sony gives you? This is where metering comes in handy!
@robchado 4 жыл бұрын
When I'm using EI, I find Sony's numbers pretty accurate. A fair amount of shadow information isn't all that usable, but with digital I'm more concerned with protecting highlights.
@otabwill709 4 жыл бұрын
On the point of baking in EI, i believe Allister touched on this in his FX9 video. At least when in comes to baking in luts, which is in effect baking in the EI. But are you saying that you could bake in EI without baking in a lut on the FS7? Edit: i just saw your note in the description about baking in the lut. Making my first point irrelevant. But the question about the FS7 still stands.
@robchado 4 жыл бұрын
Otab Will Yes, there is a menu option (in updated firmware) that lets you record your SLOG exposure index without baking in a LUT. It’s under System > Base Setting.
@stu9000 4 жыл бұрын
Well explained mate.
@sansan-fb2eu 3 жыл бұрын
What kind of light where you using here ?
@smepable 3 жыл бұрын
I actually didn t understand the video, are your sure you always used the right terms? I absolutely didnt get the sequence with what the LUT does in monitor and why. Can soneone explain this?
@ajlskate 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Robert, can you consider making a video explaining how to expose Slog3 on the FX9 while in a run and gun setting with only natural light. I recently rented this camera and struggled with exposing as I'm used to working with the A7 in slog2. Or can you point me in the direction of other sources? I've watched the Alister Chapman videos but still struggled when I'm not in a controlled studio setting. Thank you!
@robchado 3 жыл бұрын
With S-Log, I’m always monitoring with s709 (or some version of rec709). I’ll use a waveform to put skin tones from 40-60 IRE, depending on complexion. S-Log2 has a slightly lower middle grey which yields a lower noise floor but not as much dynamic range as S-Log3. I’d recommend using a waveform, which you can enable in the FX9 menus.
@AndrewTimosca 4 жыл бұрын
Cool set!
@robchado 4 жыл бұрын
Still refining... but it's getting there!
@andyschiemo 4 жыл бұрын
Something I'm misunderstanding... Does the Exposure Index change anything to the recording? If ISO stays the same at native 800 regardless of increasing or decreasing EI? Is exposure index more of a reference to tell you to increase more light/correct exposure to the image to reduce the noise in post? I think I'm missing something here... What exactly is the Exposure Index doing? haha Thanks for the info!
@robchado 4 жыл бұрын
You pretty much nailed it on the head, the exposure index is a reference and affects how the image will be handled in post. effectively
@andyschiemo 4 жыл бұрын
@@robchado Thanks for the clarification and providing the best filmmaking content on youtube. Keep it up!
@lightchild 4 жыл бұрын
I would have totally bought the lut pack :D :D :D
@KeepItUpProd 3 жыл бұрын
Best explanations I ever had about Cine EI mode !!! and great tips for over exposing by using LUT + lower ISO on the monitor !! If i'm runing an FS7 (2000 ISO native) and previewing it at 800 ISO do you know how much stop i'm over exposed ?
@robchado 3 жыл бұрын
That would be about 1.5 stops.
@KeepItUpProd 3 жыл бұрын
@@robchado Thanks a lot for your answer !
@adedamolamalomo6054 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this. I don't use a proper cinema camera yet so question on my mind is does this also apply when using a dslr like the canon 80d or how can I apply this info?
@robchado 4 жыл бұрын
I don't think the 80D has C-log, but you might be able to use Cinestyle for a flatter picture profile. Consumer Canon cameras are pretty limited when it comes to latitude- I'd consider making the jump to a camera with a higher bit depth. For now, I would try to protecting your highlights as best you can.
@adedamolamalomo6054 4 жыл бұрын
@@robchado thanks for the reply. When you say protect your highlights do you mean shoot on a higher or lower iso?
@robchado 4 жыл бұрын
Adedamola Malomo Not necessarily shoot at a lower ISO, but just keep in mind where they’re landing at whatever ISO/F-stop you’re shooting at. You can use things like lighting or NDs to help with exposure.
@Kuliginvitalik 2 жыл бұрын
what be if i set ei on 200, end exposure correction use +0.7, whats happened?)))
@robchado 2 жыл бұрын
Your camera spot meter is looking at something bright.
@ARThompsn 4 жыл бұрын
Great video Robert! Super clear explanation. I was wondering how you bake in the exposure index on the FS7? Can't find anything online about it. Cheers!
@robchado 4 жыл бұрын
Using updated firmware, go into your Base Setting under the System menu and it should be there.
@ARThompsn 4 жыл бұрын
@@robchado Thanks for the speedy reply Robert! Looks like I need to update my firmware! Cheers again.
@atdavidlee 4 жыл бұрын
@4:20 LMAO!!!! cheers Robert, cheers lol
@leminhluc5296 Жыл бұрын
So if we decreased the Cine EI we win information in shadow but lost it highlights?
@brotherjauffre770 Жыл бұрын
If you decrease the Cine EI and then expose it for the EI that you've change too (e.g. 400) it will mean that you are overexposing as in CINE EI it still films at 800 regardless of what EI you set it to. So you will win more information in the shadows by doing this. I'm new to it as well but as far as I understand that's how it works. The point of it is to help you see in camera what your footage will look like in the edit once you bring down exposure in the edit. Normally if you shot at the BASE ISO you are sort of guessing if you are overexposing and you don't really know what it looks like but with CINE EI technique you can overexpose but still visually see it in the monitor. I hope that helps a bit
@adambobroy1958 7 ай бұрын
Yes
@mbgcon 3 жыл бұрын
When you say that you get more dynamic range in the shadows by reducing EI, do you mean that by looking at it with reduced EI you will adjust lighting upward and that will give more range in the shadows vs. the highlights? Or does EI actually affect the distribution of the dynamic range?
@elainekeiningham3133 3 жыл бұрын
EI actually affects the dynamic range. Like the BMPCC 6K, which I have, if you are shooting in low light, you want a lower EI. If you are shooting in highlight, you’ll want a higher EI. Basically you are removing ISOs from the equation, you will want the brightness and darkness of your scene to be controlled only by light and aperture…not iso.
@mbgcon 3 жыл бұрын
@@elainekeiningham3133 Thanks Elaine. That's what I meant - adjusting exposure upwards with light, turning down ND filter, etc. I don't like to use aperture for exposure if I can help it - I like using it strictly for DoF and then adjusting exposure from there.
@directorjparker1415 3 жыл бұрын
Hey man great video I’ve been looking for these answers quite a while most people tell me leave the ei at 800 no matter what and I’m always getting a tone of noise in the shadows what ei would you recommend if I’m shooting a swimwear ad on the beach bright sunlight
@robchado 3 жыл бұрын
On the FX9, I'd probably leave it at 800.
@directorjparker1415 3 жыл бұрын
Ok is that because you want to keep all the highlight detail
@robchado 3 жыл бұрын
@@directorjparker1415 Correct!
@justinlee2638 4 жыл бұрын
I have a bmpcc 4k and base on the chart I get more dynamic range at iso 1000 than at the native 400 does that mean I should shoot at 1000 iso than 400? thx!
@carlscinema7086 4 жыл бұрын
You have more of your dynamic range allocated above middle grey (for highlights) but you get that by trading dynamic range in the shadows. So the image will have less shadow information and more noise. The total dynamic range is the same, its just a matter of where you put it. Hope that helps.
@justinlee2638 4 жыл бұрын
thx for all the reply!
@JimRobinson-colors 4 жыл бұрын
I had forgotten about this technique of exposing- Thank you for the reminder. I know that you are purposely going for a moody look on yourself - but for youTube type videos, it is a bit moody for a talking head.IMO.
@robchado 4 жыл бұрын
I would tend to agree; I only wanted to further demonstrate using a lower exposure index, although I'm not sure it was the right move given KZfaq's compression. I'm not planning on using this as my permanent "set" for talking head bits.
@adamdrakestudio 3 жыл бұрын
@@robchado what do you 'typically' do for the majority of talking head set ups expose wise?
@muriloyamanaka 2 жыл бұрын
Hahahaha lut pack hahaha omg
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