Daily bed time story. Paul, when you say "I'll see you tomorrow. Bye", I just close my eyes and fall asleep.

Finally, after 41 Years the loudness Button of my parents amp (grundig fine arts) makes sence to me :) thanks 4 the information.

Moving the speakers into a nearfield listening position can also help as the the listener would hear real increased levels while the total sound output, and hence what others perceive would still be less. Thanks Paul!

At low volumes, luv those tone controls!

I bought a Yamaha receiver with variable loudness and that made me happy

Paul thank you so much for being a friendly kind voice during. The covid-19 pandemic you guys are awesome

Very good topic Paul Glad that you discussed with us

Back in my student days I couldn't play music loud when my fellow students were sleeping during the day, but I had a modest Japanese integrated amp with a loudness button. The fixed loudness curve only worked over a very small range of low volumes, but over that narrow range it did sound quite a bit better than leaving it flat.

Back in the 80s when I first learned how to properly use a "loudness button" it was a great revelation. Shortly after that manufactures quite installing them. And shortly after that I discovered "high end" audio. Went into Stereo One in San Diego to find an EQ, or anything, to make my system sound better. He then told me, in only the smallest of snobbery, that none of their equipment even had tone controls. Then he let me listen to the Celestion SL600, that started the started the roller coaster.

Wow! I've been wondering about this for years and nobody could explain it to me. Thanks, Paul!

What I have found is you sort of get used to listening at a set volume but if you lower the sound gradually, it gives your ears a chance to readjust and what might have sounded too quiet a couple of weeks ago doesn't anymore. Alternatively, buy a pair of headphones. I've just bought a pair of Quad Era and love them😄.

Hi Paul. I have seen many of your videos and have learnt a lot. Not only you're full of knowladge, you are a very funny guy! Thanks for taking time to educate us. Paul for president!!!

Amazingly uncanny! I watch your informative, well-presented videos regularly and have learned a lot. But, recently there have been 3 or 4 (not necessarily new posts) that have hit right between my eyes...wanted something regarding subwoofers and there you were next time I went to youtube; same for speaker placement...and this one, as I low-level listen quite a lot. And, of the two requisites of a new amp I'm getting, one was loudness control function. Thanks for the great timing, Paul! Keep the super-helpful vids coming.

Simply great!

Wow, very timely. That answers the question I had.

Wow, that was some excellent information there Paul. I'd never heard of the Fletcher Munson curve before. That explains why I always have to play my LPs at a specific level to have them sound their best. Great video! 👽🖖"Na-nu"

You have a great speaking voice and cadence sir. The content is also Top notch. Thank you kindly!

Thank you for explaining how volume affects the overall hearing experience. When I was younger I liked music played loudly. I’ve discovered that for the most realistic hearing experience, the volume needs to be just right. Now I know why.

Thanks for the talk! I found my own solution for low level listening, and that is large speakers! I have kef concertos which I really like. Very old and not too everyone's taste, but they really do the business at low levels, due to thier warmth. Low frequenies are clearly audible with all the radiating area of the b139 woofer. At high levels they might overpower my room with all the bass, but when at a whisper, they permiate the space with all the presence I could want.

great explanation.. I was asking myself about that loudness button.. which sounded awkward at high volumes.. It all makes sense now.. Thank you dear sir!

Thank you Paul love all your videos 👍👍

hey Paul i am really impressed from your knowledge

Great explanation

Thank you for this extremely valuable information.

Wow! Thanks for that excellent explanation- I never really understood how the 'loudness' button can improve the listening experience- now I know. I think I need one!

Although i am not a qualified electronic engineer but i am working with audio amplifiers since 1979 so your information is quite a valuable thing for me and i trying my best to gain much knowledge form your lectures and i enjoyed a lot. i am from Pakistan

I had to turn down my computer speakers to hear Paul more clearly.... thanks for this video Paul

Good info....THANKS from an apartment dweller.

Great video as always. Speaker / Amp choice can of course make a huge difference. I’ve found LS50 Meta’s paired with a Hegel H120 work really well at low volumes without changing the dynamics / narrowing the soundstage too much compared to other speakers & amps I’ve had in the past. Quite a dramatic improvement actually! Hope this helps somebody.

Great explanation.

great amazing explanation!!

Great video. I have had some issues lately adjusting the volume. When it’s too low it just sounds flat and not real. When it’s too loud, it also looses some of its realistic properties, but the music is very much alive. When you turn the volume to the level which seems realistic, magic happens.

Speakers that sound frequency balanced just as they just become audible are rare gems.

Excellent explanation. We tend to forget it’s all just electronic trickery and instead put too much thought into how it sounds rather than the music itself.

Another fantastic explanation !!! I don’t know how you do it PAUL but you remain D best .....

Thanks for your explanation Paul, this is the question in my mind for long time, on my opinion the quality of the system can be tested on how the system remain give the details of each frequency at low volume level , that's my parameters if the system sound great at low volume level, without truncated the bass , and treble, then it will sound great at normal or higher volume level. Thanks for your insight about the loudness control. Stay safe and healthy Paul.

Good tip, thank you 👍

Very well explained! I have tinnitus which gets even worse anytime I treat myself to "high" volume levels...It is That which prompts moderation more than anything else ,at least for me...so I learn to enjoy at Moderate levels which cause no further ill effects to my hearing...I get a kick outta people in audio forums talking about running their 200 and 300 watt per channel amps at "reference" level..like wtf? How is that Not damaging ur ears? I would either be deaf or have tinnitus flare up so bad as to be unbearable...

I'm listening at low volume right now! :-) #sunday morning relaxing

a good SET ... alo sounds awesome and maybe sometimes even better then when its loud !!! :-)

Great question, I've always wondered about this too! Never knew what loudness control was for either, this video was great thanks!

hey Paul that is very valuable information from me "Loudnes" thanks a lot

Thanks Paul, as usual, great insights. I have been struggling with this issue on my desk top as I don't want to blast my ears up close to the speakers. I found a combination of Paul's suggestion along with some of the advise here useful collectively: 1. I use a lower power speaker (less than 20W) - I used a commercial speaker and replaced the drivers. There are some good options in PartsExpress. I chose a long throw driver for my kind of music. 2. I use an free equaliser - APO - its free but it works on PC only! Windows players also have an EQ option - good to experiment. It gives better control over each frequency band to customise listening curve. @StewartMarkley has some good suggestions for others EQ's. 3. I also keep the speakers towed in and at ear level. Raising a few inches to ear level made a big difference. 4. Used a high power amp. 5. Someone suggested a pre amplifier - I found it improves sound staging to a large extent. An option is using a DAC - their price is quite reasonable now - many have a preamplifier built-in.. 6. Another interesting option is to bi-amp and apply sub 1K frequencies to the driver and others frequencies to a full range - that may require a custom job though.

A few things that helps: 1. Use class A amp. 2. Reduce background noice (through walls, windows, printers etc) 3. Purer power. 4. Antivibration. 5. AMT-tweeters and midrange. 6. Listen in your sweetspot

Another thing I didn't know, I didn't know. Thanks to Paul, now I know.

Unusual topic. I listen to my kit at low volume a hell of a lot. Not that I have to worry about neighbours, I don't have any close enough. But I have never noticed that the overall sound diminish in any noticeable way. Or not that it doesn't sound as good as it does loud! You may want to close your eyes hear Paul, but I have Bryston equipment. My amp packs 600w per side, but sound great at whisper volume level as it does deafening me😄😄

I toe the speakers in more at night for low level listening so that the tweeter is firing directly at me from each speaker. It makes the center image sharper and makes the voicing more apparent. I don't like this during the day (it shrinks the sound stage and the speakers do not disappear) but for low level, late night listening it helps a lot. I can listen at very low levels this way. I also tend to listen to more singer-centric music or jazz at night (think Joni Mitchell) where the emphasis isn't on a huge sound stage but the singer themselves. So between the type of music and toe-in I can listen at low levels. Much different than other times when I want normal volume listening (I rarely crank up music).

The best explanation i have heard! Pioneer Cinema Amplifier had night mode which is a kind of loadnees!

Headphones eh? Thanks paul for your honesty

You always learn something new. I always thought that loudness buttons and knobs would compress the sound levels to make the dynamics more manageable at night hence allowing you to raise the volume. Something along the line of midnight mode on some soundbars and receivers.

Headphones work really nice for late night listening. They're a whole lot better now than the ones I had in the 60's. They might even sound better than your speakers.

equalizer apo has a GREAT loudness correction when properly setup. Couldn't imagine my setup without it

Great!

I assumed that was the reason for the “loudness” control, but it was great to be affirmed! That has to be one of the most abused buttons on a tuner. People crank it up AND hit the loudness. Distortion a plenty. I’ll bet that is the single greatest cause of blown home audio speakers. Thx!!

The Schiit Loki mini was the solution for my late night listening. It has a convenient bypass.

My hifi, determined where, and what i live in... A detached home, on 1/3 of an acre in a semi rural area... It comes to something, when you have to buy a house under those rules... lol What we do for our hobby... some would say we are just nuts... Frank...

I just bought a Sennheiser 560 for nighttime listening. I love them. Most headphones annoy me but these are extremely comfortable with beautiful sound that doesn’t annoy my ears like most headphones do. I’m using a massive marantz sr7500 to power them and I’ve cranked these things up to make my ears bleed with no distortion.

That answers the question for me, I've always wonered if it was an electronic thing or just my hearing. Thanks.

If only companies called the loudness button "night mode" or "whisper mode" it would have made so much more sense all those years ago

excelente explicação

Since the 70’s I’ve always used a separate equalizer on the a/b settings adjusted for lower volume….always works for me

Grea explanation - asl always from Paul. Another idea for llow volume listening could be adding artificial "sound excitement" by adding an extra device into the chain (e.g. between the pre- and main-amp). These devices are often used in studio mastering and even live on stage. Currenty, I am using an old parametric EQ from SPL (called Qure), taking advantage of a special tube powered "voice enhancement" section curcuit that adds some very nice sounding harmonics to the signal. And, I am considering to reach out to them for a more "exciting" type of gear, called SPL stereo vitalizer, expecting even more sound transparency. Reviews and testiminials appear very promising - and this device is below 1000 bucks. Another trick which I use regularly is to add a bit of reverb to the whole music - this works great for most kinds of music. the trick here is to keep the level very subtle.

Three years ago and we’re still listening to you at low volumes 👍 So when I turn the fully balanced ARC LS10SE down low as it can go, it swings to the left channel only, with the right channel dropping off early. So low volume listening is not so ideal in this system…

This is Brian. I had a pioneer qx8000 quad receiver. I used a Dual 1229 turntable with a top Empire Cartridge. I used 2 McIntosh rear speakers (3 way?) And 2 Old Sansui up front with 6 speaker array in them. All had 12 inch woofers. It was 3 a.m. , I was spinning vinyl in my apartment when my friend quietly whispered across the room, " Won't this bother the neighbors?" I responded whispering back, " we are whispering quietly and we are not as loud as the music" So , how are we bothering anyone. Personally, you either need better equipment or you need to know how to operate your your current system.

I found adding a subwoofer made a big difference to low level listening. I know it sounds counter intuitive but it's true. I can now listen and enjoy music late at night without waking wife/kids. Before I had a sub it wasn't enjoyable for the reasons you describe.

Now, to listen at high volume. 🔊🔊

This is why I like the Loudness dial and the 5-band EQ on my preamp.

Good to know.

Ages ago people understood that we need loudness function, tone controls or EQ to fix this exact issue and make music listening PLEASURABLE at low levels. Then came some absurd snake oil opinion that these controls somehow are unwanted as they "damage" the sound and even a bypass function can't be properly designed to avoid "damaging" the signal. Some products nowadays are designed with some care of this issue, but amazingly few. One reason is that 90% of audio engineering has moved to China and in China people listen to music that is mostly mid-range focused. Thus they don't actually realize this as a major problem and aren't raising the flag as audio engineers used to do. It's like a forgotten topic in audio engineering and that's a big bummer! I have some hope that Paul one morning will wake up after some dream realizing that loudness compensation (or EQ compensation for your treble loss due to aging or other reason) can easily be done in a DSP at the digital signal before the DAC and bypassing loudness is completely harmless when done such way...Paul save us...your Tesla car has DSP based loudness doing its magic, by the way...

Increasing the volume does not compensate for the lack of sound quality. Once you have built up a system that you can listen to at a moderate level, then you know you have reached a level of sound quality that you want to just sit and listen to. At this very moment, your eyes will close whilsts you drift into hifi heaven!! I love it! P. S. Headphones are not the answer. It's all about transparency.

Right to the point.

Therefore I currently like my ~30w speakers very much. It's not possible to make stage sound but for normal and louder listening they still give a great dynamic at low volume. I use the loudness function for extremely dynamic or badly produced stuff like some yt videos or movies/series when I listen very quietly. with bigger speakers i made some experiences with quieter listening, how the dynamics get lost even at relatively normal volume

Love my rme ad-2 dac ❤

Good open-back headphones.

turn out all the lights - sit in darkness and suddenly your music sounds much larger and the soundstage is back for the same level that was lost when the light is on - its about allocationg your senses - when the sens of sight is not used your hearing is more sensitive

I used to like loudness controls, and used them. Then I spent 20 years in broadcast engineering, and became accustomed to listening on studio monitor systems, which have no loudness compensation, at all kinds of volume levels -- and thereby I unconsciously trained myself to mentally compensate for the Fletcher-Munson effect. Now I enjoy music fully, even at low volume levels, with no loudness compensation needed. In fact, it even sounds flat to me, so good has my psychological conditioning been. Now I can't stand loudness controls. They sound bizarre and unnatural to me now.

I had this exact same problem and so I bought a headphone amp and headphones and connected them to my laptop. It's quite a good way to go I think, because you can get quite amazing results for not a huge amount of money. It's a different sound: in some ways better; and in some ways worse.

the mark of a good system is that it sounds good at low volumes

Hear music below 75 db. Like . In my place it's never gonna wake anyone . I realized hearing Netflix on a office sound level is like insanely captivating .

There is dBA, dBB and dbC. This is from wekipidia - Since the human ear is not equally sensitive to all sound frequencies, noise levels at maximum human sensitivity, somewhere between 2 and 4 kHz, are factored more heavily into some measurements using frequency weighting

Interesting topic. I try not to wake up my family while late night listening. My current amp has no loudness button but does have bass and treble control. Would these controls be able to reach the same effect as a loudness button? Or is the shape of a loudness correction too difficult to replicate with two controls?

I have a sound optimizer switch for low volume listening. Also near field listening and extreme toe in, 45 degrees plus, given the speakers, if possible, might help.

Hi Paul. I listen to your talks perhaps 10 times a day, at least. I know much more now than I could learn since 1973 when I started listening to my stereo. After listening to you this much I am convinced that I should recap and also upgrade some of the components in the crossovers. A friend suggested that upgrading will make my speakers sound clean. What are clean sounding speakers? And what are all the components I could change in my crossovers? Thank you and best regards. Azhar Zaidi

Most components with "loudness" switches boost only the low end; a few do also boost highs, but in either case they don't often do it very well. I have heard good compensation from, maybe, two properly engineered models. Variable loudness controls, such as those found on some Yamaha products, seem to do much better. Using an equalizer works, but doing it right requires readjusting the curve for each different volume setting. I have mostly avoided using the loudness feature on the equipment I own because I find it usually boosts the bass too much. Of course, if there is a bass knob, one can turn it down to partially compensate for the error, but I would prefer that the loudness circuit be better designed to begin with.

On my current 2.1, I find I just have to turn up the powered subwoofer a bit. My Klipsch synergy's have plenty of mid and high, at the volumes I use.

This is very interesting! Does this mean that V-shaped sound headphones are well/better suited for low volume hearing? Or is this perception effect only present with a speakers+room setup? If this is not present in headphones though... I would blind guess that that perceived drop in bass and treble could come from the room walls starting to stop bounding those frequencies? Cheers!

A good loudspeaker SET ... also sounds awesome and maybe sometimes even better when its at low volume instead of when its loud !!! :-) thats also how you can test how good a speaker set really is ... before you buy a set ... put the volume very low .. and listen if you are still satisfied with the sound :-)

A good indication that you should isolate between apartments is if you can hear voices from the neighbour. Fix that. And you will be able to play music at reasonable levels at day and evening. ( in night we are not supposed to play music in apartements ).

totally agree had variable loudness on my Yamaha and Technics receivers worked wonders. Why aren't the audiophile company's per se' bringing it back? its not the same as Auduessey and the likes that put that val over the music.

From my onkyo TX-DS797 manual: Late Night Cinema sound has a vast dynamic range; therefore, to hear the quieter sounds such as human conversations, they must be played back at larger volumes. When this parameter is set to “High” or “Low,” the dynamic range of the sound is narrowed down to allow you to easily hear minute sounds at low volumes. This function is especially useful if you wish to play a movie at low volumes during the nighttime. This can be set to either “Off” or “Low,” or “High.” When this parameter is set to High or Low, the dynamic range of the sound is narrowed down to allow you to easily hear minute sounds at low volume.

I had a similar problem. I liked listening to the music only loud, like I always wanted to turn the volume to the max. Until I changed my speakers. The Amp, cables, dac, music are all the same. But the new speakers got me the "big" sound. I suddenly feel everything even when listening quietly. Now, when using just 1 watt, I really enjoy. I can clearly hear and feel the bass kick, which on smaller speakers was there, but somehow didn't "drive" me, didn't make me wanna dance... Maybe its just in the size of the speakers, I don't know. Before, when I needed to listen loud, I had wharfedale 9.5 with 6.5 inch woofer. Now, when I enjoy quiet music, I have quadral montan mk3 with 12 inch woofers. They are old, but really big and great, with the sound just like that!

3:18 When you're talking about dynamic range, do you know for certain that the dynamic range doesn't grow or increase with higher and higher volume?

Most reasonable Bluetooth speakers do this EQ adjustment via the inbuilt digital signal processor (DSP). At full volume they are relatively flat EQ, but at each digital volume step, they change the EQ to suit that volume. So at low volume they don't sound too different to high volume in terms of perceived frequency range. They may also compress the dynamic range to help with that as well.

Yamaha used to have a variable loudness control, not simply on/off, so you could fine-tune the sound to your liking and it would follow the volume control on a curve.

Orrr ... buy a graphic equalizer and insert it in your system. The great thing there is, you can adjust the settings to taste, and turn it off when playing at louder levels. . I have been mixing music for years and have a 32 band graphic between my monitor controller and my monitors. Used reference tracks to calibrate it. Works like a charm. :-) .

Paul, Thank you for the excellent explanation as I had forgotten these "normal" anomalies exist in regards to "my" system. Maggie 1.7's based, (need I say more)?

I have a bedside clock radio with a speaker that's probably 2 inches in diameter. And I've wondered what it would be like to have a loudspeaker with a 10 inch woofer in the same room, playing from the same source, with the volume the same for each, measured with a sound pressure level meter, and "A vs B" switch them back and forth. You can have the same frequency sounds, playing at the same level, but with a much bigger transducer moving a larger quantity of air, I would think would provide a "fuller" listening experience, even at low volumes. I think that's a sound argument for going as big as you can for your speakers and amplification SUITABLY for a given room size, even for low volume listening. Obviously some speakers work better at lower volumes than others, and some great speakers probably really only sing when played pretty loud. Like paring wine with food, I would like to see reviews of excellent COMBINATIONS of Room-Speaker-Amplification ensembles. Steve Gutenberg's Audiophiliac channel comes as close to doing that that I've seen. But then you could always just get some headphones.

Looking at any spectrum analyzer will show that most of the "musical" energy is in the midrange. Our human hearing is also designed to be most receptive to the midrange. If you excessively boost an equalizers bass and treble (smiley curve) to flatten the response, it gives an unnatural sound. Few loudness controls do the job as they boost around 100Hz and 10kHz at fixed levels only. A variable loudness option (Yamaha) is more natural and a better choice. Or buy a graphic equalizer, the more bands, the better. Tough topic, but nicely explained. Thanks Paul.

Is there a recommended average db level that is a balance of loudness and accurate staging? That is, a point where you get all the music has to offer without being too loud for safety, or adding the "louder is better" skew to perception.

Why on earth did manufacturers ditch the loudness controls?? The 10 level adjustment on my vintage Yamaha CR-620 has proven to be quite useful, separating it from many other high quality amps even from recent times.