yes, before and after, we can not be sure if he bettered then or not

he didn't test the bars for N/S configuration before installing. Likely to sound STRANGE

@@dehved hope it gets fixed...would love to hear it

The channel heavymetalATC already did this comparison, he does a few different magnet setups, pretty much it ends up sounding like an AlNiCo with more bass response

Great! Watch my other video on magnet simulation kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p9N-f8hzvNXboGw.html and read the description to know what to expect. Try the other configurations and go for the sound that you like. Good luck!

there are a couple things you failed to consider. first, the magnets used in the mod are very small and, therefore, they are not as powerful as you might have imagined. second, the magnets are placed with a considerable distance from the strings. thus, the gauss level at the strings would be a little less than an Alnico 3 pole piece. it is not enough to cause unwanted harmonics or "wolf tones". it might also interest you that i have done this modification several times and the results of my modifications have been very satisfactory. this matter has already been discussed several times in the comments and are kept there for reference.

Thank you very much for such kind words. I'm really glad you like my video presentation. Cheap pickups are quite sturdy. The only thing that is delicate in a pickup is the magnet wire of the coil. But most of the time, the mounting wires are soldered inside the coil, which is covered by at least 2 layers of tape, so there are no exposed thin wires. In some pickups where lead magnet wires are exposed, they are usually routed in a groove on the bobbin and covered in wax, just like expensive alnico pickups. The thinnest part of the bobbin is around 0.8mm thick and the top is thinner than the bottom. You can tap the pole pieces from the top but if you miss, you can chip or crack the bobbin. Tapping from the bottom is safer. There is no need to provide support to the bobbin because much of the the force is directed on the pole piece and very little is distributed to the bobbin, unless it is stuck with rust or you miss hitting the pole piece. The bobbin is usually made from acrylic or HDPE (I think). You can toss the pickups around, just don't abuse them. After the magnet is removed from the pickup, the pole pieces are being held only by residual glue from the magnet and paraffin wax, aside from their snug fit in the bobbin holes. While the glue and wax are still warm, the pole pieces will slide out with little effort. In the video, I was just overly cautious because sometimes the pole pieces can still be uncomfortable to touch. It's better to err on the side of safety. Using a hammer was overkill but that was the first thing I saw on my table to use to tap the pole pieces but you can just push the pole pieces with a rod by hand. But I think tapping a rod gives better control. I do have a table vise in my other work table and I use it in a lot of things including pickup modification. But in laying out the procedure for this video, I had to consider that not everybody has a table vise. Besides, I have also used this method many times before and working light has its advantages. Pickups are very simple devices but the underlying principles behind them are quite complex. However, it's easy to understand the basic things about them and you can get by with little knowledge. There's no need to make it appear complicated, mystical and expensive.

... Which is very appreciated! Thanks for your reply, John. I just figured it'd be easier, if not safer for the pickup, to hold the thing still somehow. But your point's well-taken. I do guitar & pedal mods myself (have some good ones for Gretsch models with the Standby Switches... Gretsch actually mis-engineered them!), and knowing the benefits of moving from the living room floor to a decent work table with the clamping devices I might need, I guess I appreciate them more than some! By the way (a little off-topic, but...), from using the Gretsches I mentioned (I have 2) I've come to rely on having standby/mute switches in most of my guitars & basses! (It's SO simple - just a switch to short hot to ground at the output. I did more than that with the Gretsch Country Gentleman & its 3-way on/off/on switch. It's now off/on/on w add'l filter cap & well worth the effort!) The mute's especially useful when playing more than one instrument in live performance; you needn't change volumes when changing guitars, just turn it off. It's become vital in a Strat I use also with a Roland guitar synth. On more than one song, I'm switching between guitar & synth, & it's vital to be able to quickly turn the guitar off & on, so it's not playing when I use the synth. The "mix" selector on the synth pickup output is far too clumsy to make that switch quickly enough. Don't know why more guitars don't have 'em! Anyway, another topic for another time. Thanks again for your MOST informative video, and all the following writing. Great stuff!

... Which is very appreciated! Thanks for your reply, John. I just figured it'd be easier, if not safer for the pickup, to hold the thing still somehow. But your point's well-taken. I do guitar & pedal mods myself (have some good ones for Gretsch models with the Standby Switches... Gretsch actually mis-engineered them!), and knowing the benefits of moving from the living room floor to a decent work table with the clamping devices I might need, I guess I appreciate them more than some! By the way (a little off-topic, but...), from using the Gretsches I mentioned (I have 2) I've come to rely on having standby/mute switches in most of my guitars & basses! (It's SO simple - just a switch to short hot to ground at the output. I did more than that with the Gretsch Country Gentleman & its 3-way on/off/on switch. It's now off/on/on w add'l filter cap & well worth the effort!) The mute's especially useful when playing more than one instrument in live performance; you needn't change volumes when changing guitars, just turn it off. It's become vital in a Strat I use also with a Roland guitar synth. On more than one song, I'm switching between guitar & synth, & it's vital to be able to quickly turn the guitar off & on, so it's not playing when I use the synth. The "mix" selector on the synth pickup output is far too clumsy to make that switch quickly enough. Don't know why more guitars don't have 'em! Anyway, another topic for another time. Thanks again for your MOST informative video, and all the following writing. Great stuff!

I get your point. I am a little apprehensive about using big metal tools on plastic devices. The possibility that the plastic will slip and break is too great. It is very difficult to estimate how much clamping force is enough before it begins to break. What I do is just to hold the rod with my thumb and index finger and the other three fingers secure the pickup against my palm and gently put pressure down on it towards the pliers acting as a wedge. If you find holding the pickup with 3 fingers against your palm a little difficult, place a piece of thick rag over the pickup. I used to have a Chet Atkins Country Gentleman. It's a beautiful piece of art. I miss that guitar. I think it would be better to have a kill switch pedal, which is very easy to make. Place that between your effects pedal board and the amplifier or mixer so that any noise coming from your pedal board will also be muted.

Good stuff, John. "In the hand" makes sense, too... there's a lot of control and "feel" there. Yes, the Gent IS a piece of art, indeed. It's THE guitar that got me interested in guitars in the first place, when George played his on Ed Sullivan Show. Fascinating to me then, still is now! The kill switch on the floor is good - I use the volume pedal for that kind of "Master." But often when I play live, I have 3 guitars (the Gent, Ric 360-12, & Strat) all plugged in to a mixer, then to pedals, then to the amp. (AC30) So I have to be able to mute 2 guitars while I play the 3rd or I'm almost sure to get one on a stand feeding back. Keeping them all plugged in & ready is a major time saver when switching instruments. And as I said with the Strat, switching to the guitar between phrases on the Roland synth, sometimes very fast for just a phrase or 2, having that small switch on the lower horn is right where I need it. On the particular song I'm thinking of that's most "pedal intensive", "Hello Goodbye" with my Beatles tribute band (NO wigs or costumes, just The Music), I'm doing such a pedal dance on that, to add another would drive me to my grave! Between violins on the synth, then "clean" guitar for the legato slide, then the fuzz guitar line for the choruses, back & forth... it's a fun challenge, but that little switch literally makes it possible! There's no guitar through much of the song, only the violins, so for those all-important phrases, I can just turn it on when I need it, then off again. Pretty cool. Thanks for your thoughts, John! Cheers!

I'm glad you like my work. It is a common perception that any procedure that shows how to replace something implies that the replacement is better. But that conclusion is generally borne out of the reader or viewer's knowledge, experiences, and prejudices. That is why the very first statement I made in this video is a statement of its basic premises, and that is you don't like the sound of your stock pickups AND you don't want to spend a lot of money; nothing about ceramic pickups being bad. I also recommended not to use epoxy or super glue to secure the magnets and use plastic varnish instead, with the idea that it would make it easy to revert back to the pickup's original setup and sound, suggesting that changing the ceramic magnet may not turn out to be better. So I don't think I made any allusion that ceramic pickups are bad, per se. A well designed and made pickup has, almost always, good sound quality, whether it uses alnico, ceramic or neodymium magnets. The bad reputation of ceramic pickups is due to some manufacturers skimping on quality materials and employing shabby mass production processes to lower costs. Because of this, quite a number, if not a majority, of ceramic pickups are below par, to say the least. For people falling within the group of people described in the beginning of this video, the solution offered here may be an option.

It's the title that bothers me. It implies that ceramic pickups are cheap (some are quite expensive--Barden for instance) and that this will make them sound great--as if they didn't sound great before, which may or may not be the case. I'm also not sure about the quality of the manufacturing process. For example, Duncan consistently makes some of the worst sounding pickups I've ever heard, yet they use good materials, while Dimarzio makes great sounding pickups using the least expensive materials they can to keep the cost down (very thin lead wire, not cloth covered etc.) You can carry 5-volts on a strand of hair, so wire size really doesn't matter, and electrical tape works better than cloth anyway. I've never played any neodymium pickups. I really don't care what they're made of or how they're made. I either like the sound or I don't. Cheers.

I thought you were concerned about a supposed allusion from the video that ceramic pickups are bad. Anyway, regarding your new concern about an allusion from the title that ceramic pickups are cheap, I think you're forcing a conclusion that is not warranted by the statement. What is conveyed by the title is to change cheap pickups. The subtitle in parenthesis states that the change will be from ceramic to neodymium. What can be reasonably inferred here is that the cheap pickups are ceramic pickups BUT not the other way around because there is nothing there to suggest that ceramic pickups are always cheap. But even if it can be inferred that ceramic pickups are cheap, it would not matter much because it is not being recommended to modify expensive ceramic pickups, as the title clearly suggests. Perhaps, it would be better to sell it. Your concern that this video is suggesting to modify pickups that are already sounding great is unfounded. The first statement in the video, "if you don't like the sound of your pickup," already eliminates them as a possible candidates for modification. If the pickup already sounds great, whether it's expensive or cheap, why modify it? Also, I'm not advocating a particular brand as good or not good. It's the owner or user who determines whether a ceramic pickup sounds great or not. What may be good sounding to me may not be good sounding to others, and vice versa. In other words, what sounds great is subjective.

Loving your patience John

Got an MIM Tele bridge pup just like that!!!

To increase the volume output, try using 2 or 3 disc magnets on each pole piece.

Thank you. I'm glad to hear the modification turned out well for you.

Einstein is a genius. I am not. I merely picked up on the ideas of other people from the Music Electronics Forum, I researched and experimented, and came up with this simple procedure. It's not my original idea. Anyway, thank you for the compliment. I'm glad that you liked my tutorial.

Yeah, I probably use genius a bit too much, but I am impressed when someone learns to do something so well that they can explain it simply. Einstein might have said: I merely picked up Newton's ideas from the Principia Mathemateca forum, I researched the Michaelson-Morley experiment, and made some simple mathematical adjustments. It's not really an original idea. The same process you used. Anyway, I just bought 200 of these (cheap) magnets to experiment with some of my ceramic magnet guitars. Thanks, brother, Dr. G

I appreciate what you're getting at but you're stretching the argument too far and it really doesn't fit. As far as this tutorial is concerned, it all comes down to the fact that I just chose to use common sense. Most people choose to ignore it. I can see that you grasped the concept of this tutorial very well, that this is only the bare basic idea of the pickup modification. That explains why you bought a lot of magnets. It can get quite interesting and complicated (not really complicated although sounds intellectually challenging) when you place the magnet in between the ends of the pole pieces and/or use other magnetically permeable material or mix different kinds of ferro magnetic material and/or magnet configuration to contour the magnet field propagation. Good luck on your quest for a better "tone" on the practical and cheap side of the equation.

As an analogy and not as an example or for comparison: Newton and Leibnitz

I have not tried it the way you did. I suppose that the neodymiums increased the strength of the ceramic bar magnet and somewhat increased the output of your pickups. You can try putting the neodymiums on top of the pickups and you will get and an even more "punchier" sound but you would have to lower your pickups from the strings to avoid magnet-induced harmonics. But removing the ceramic bar magnet altogether and replacing it with neodymium disc magnets will give your pickups a different tone character, which, in my opinion, is much better. Watch my other video on magnet simulations and read the description to get an idea on the different magnet-pole piece configurations. Good luck on your project!

Thank you sir for your kind words.

Have you tried this yet Rex ?

I suppose that's one way of saying that you don't like my video. But your sense of nationalism is admirable, unless you're not Puerto Rican.

I love your video...not just informative but also entertaining. And because of the natural element of the countryside (I live in NYC) it was to me even more enjoyable. By the way I am Italian.

Grazie Signore.

Thank you. I would appreciate it if you will post any feedback when you make your modification.

Thank you for the thumbs up, whether it's for my chickens or my video.

john doesnt :o)

I'm glad to hear that. Thank you.

yes a before / after would have been good

The pickups used in this modification are those that have plastic bobbins and ceramic bar magnets at the bottom. Pickups that do not have plastic bobbins usually have Alnico magnet pole pieces. They do not have ceramic bar magnets. If your pickup does not have a plastic bobbin or a ceramic bar magnet, do not modify it. Instead, re-magnetize it if it sounds dull.

He stool it

Can you please explain why the neodymium disc magnets are the wrong choice? Also consider that the idea of this tutorial is to keep it cheap and yet make it sound great - it's at the very beginning of the video on plain black background so you can't miss it. A pack of 100 pcs of neodymium disc magnets will cost not more than USD2, which is good for 5 sets consisting of 3 pickups and you still have a few to spare. A 6-piece alnico magnet set for only one pickup costs around USD5. I have made extensive research on magnets (flux propagation, permeability, etc.) and coils (inductors [RLC], impedance, frequency responses, etc.). But since the change proposed in my video only involves the magnets, I did not bother to delve deeper into inductors. You can read some of the discussions below. You can also watch my other video on magnet simulation and the effect of material permeability to pickup tone to give you an idea on how the magnetic flux would propagate (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kN-Pd9CSvtbUnqc.html and kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qZZ_jdxp3J60omw.html). Magnet disc positioning in a pole piece is a new concept in pickup design that I have suggested in this video (in relation to my video on magnet simulation). I have my preferences, but try positioning the disc magnet a little below center of the pole piece (dead center is also good). If you will position the disc magnets at the bottom of the pole pieces, it will be best to use N52 neodymium magnets. If you position the magnet around the middle of the pole pieces, an N35 will suffice. I have also experimented with different magnet types and configurations, including alnico magnets. But like I said, I have my preferences and I will not impose it on anybody.

The implication of your statement appears to be based on hearsay erroneous assumptions. Please explain how a 5mm diameter N52 neodymium magnet with only 1mm thickness can a affect a vibrating string at a distance of least 20mm. I have discussed this issue several times in the comments and we can pick up from where you think I made an erroneous statement so that I can correct myself.

Burnt

Thank you!

Thank you!

Yes, the output of the modified pickup has a much lower output than when it had ceramic magnets. It's output volume should be like an old Alnico 2. But compared with its ceramic tone, it should now have a more "defined" middle range. It would also help if you clean the point of contact between the neodymium magnet and the pole pieces. As much as possible, there should be as much bare metal to metal contact. It is also possible that one or two magnets have their polarities reversed If you really want a high volume output, try putting the neodymiums on top but that would change its "tone" as well. When placed on top, secure the magnets to the pole pieces with a stronger adhesive. If you strike it strong enough with a pick, it might fly off. If you get weird tones, lower the pickup height. Hope this helps.

thanks for the reply john. the problem could be the reversed polarity.I had problem to tell the polarity because the neodymium magnets would stick to the ceramic magnet either side.

I'm glad you appreciate my work. Thank you.

Danang Sugeng Nugroho, I've been planning to make test audio recordings of the different magnet and -pole piece configurations. I have to ensure that the test conditions are identical for each test sample and only the magnet and pole piece configuration will need to be changed. I would need a dedicated guitar and pickup to work on this and other ideas I am planning to do but I don't have a spare guitar to use right now. I will post my work as soon as I have finished doing it. But instead of waiting for me to do it, why not do your own experiment and maybe share your experience. Doing the modification is not difficult and you can always easily revert back to the original magnet configuration of your pickup if you're not happy with the result. But I seriously doubt if you will use the original ceramic magnet again once you make the modification. Read the recommendations I made in the description in my other video (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qZZ_jdxp3J60omw.html) to get an idea on what to expect. Good luck with your project!

just thought the same

how to wire a guitar

Thank you. I am almost absolutely certain that a Squier has ceramic pickups.

Thanks.. Damn... I spelt Squier wrong !

Perhaps on very old magnet wires with varnish coatings, denatured alcohol may soften the insulation but you still have to rub the alcohol with moderately stiff cloth to strip the magnet wire. With today's cheap pickups, the polymer coatings on the magnet wires are quite resilient to corrosion and only strong solvents, such as acetone, lacquer thinner, paint stripper, etc., can melt the insulation enough to strip them of insulation to the wire. The polymer insulation actually adds tension strength to the magnet wire and once the polymer coating breaks down, the wire can easily break, which is more catastrophic than the wires shorting.

It was never suggested that you should not install alnico rod magnets. It is very clear that the topic, as suggested by the title, is limited to modifying a pickup's magnet from "ceramic to neodymium".

I am happy for you that you can buy a new set of pickups whenever you want to. But not everybody is as fortunate as you are. For those who don't have much to spend, or just don't want to spend much, on a new set of cheap alnico pickups, not even on a second hand set, they might consider the procedure in my video as an option, or a solution. It's still a lot cheaper and the result is quite noticeable, to say the least. You might also want to consider sending me your old ceramic pickups if your are just going to throw them away. I can use them for other ideas I have for pickup modification.

Actually John, I'm usually flat broke, but I find plenty of less-expensive pickups that may not be Seymour Duncan or Lindy Fralin, but seem perfectly adequate. In fairness, I'm not playing lots of gigs any more, just jammin' for my own amusement; and I don't change pickups every week. But again, thanks for a most interesting video, I learned a lot!

Your name is ALMOST David Bowie. I like that.

The gauss level of the stock pole pieces (mild steel) opposite the location of an N52 neodymium disc magnet is roughly the same as the strength of Alnico 2 pole pieces, or maybe a little less. Perhaps you could share the conditions of your setup since your results are in great disparity with mine. I am intrigued at how a small disc 5mm x 1mm neodymium magnet at the bottom of a pickup can have greater strength than a ceramic magnet, measured at the top of the pickup, near the strings. A pickup is an inductor, which is essentially a coil and a core. The characteristics of the core will determine the behavior of the magnetic field. It is the magnetic field that is in direct "contact" with the vibrating strings. The interaction between the string and the magnetic field is what is ultimately detected by the coil. The characteristics of the coil will determine how it will discriminate the changes in the field. The characteristics of both the coil and the core affects the the output of the pickup. In fact, the equation for the inductance of a coil includes the physical characteristics of the core, its size and material, as well as the physical characteristics of the coil. A change in the size of the pole pieces, physical size or field strength, will change the characteristics of the pickup in the same manner if the wire size or number of turns in the coil is changed.

You have one very typical misunderstanding of how pickups work. There are in fact only two basic kinds of electromagnetic transducers, moving coil transducers and moving magnet transducers. Guitar pickups are the latter type, and the moving magnets are the strings. The function of the permanent magnets in guitar pickups is to magnetize the strings so they in turn can function as moving magnets, thus inducing electrical currents in the coil that correspond to the motion of those strings. Your definition of an inductor is also incorrect -- an inductor doesn't need a core to have inductance, the presence of a core (which can actually be either inside or outside the coil) is simply a way to increase inductance without adding more turns of wire to the coil. The composition of the core material determines the linearity of the pickup's frequency response -- an unhardened "mild" steel core results in a pickup with some high frequency fall-off vs. hardened alloys like silicon steel that allow more high end response. The alnico variants used in Fender-style slug core pickups have far less permeability than ferrous poles and are quite non-linear in their contribution to inductance, which results in the rather uneven frequency response that contributes to the "Fendery" sound. The total energy product of a magnet has two components, much like electricity has voltage and current. The string damping effect comes from one of those components, magnetic attaction measured in gauss, the other is demagnetization force, measured in oersted. It is the latter that contributes to the electrical output of the pickup, with the former essentially being an unavoidable nuisance. The balance between the two components in rare earth magnets is favorable to that respect, but the total energy product is very high, so it makes sense to limit that either by controlling the size of magnets like you did by using very small discs or by other engineering measures that accomplish a reduction in the total amount of energy magnetizing the strings. The late Bill Lawrence's "Microcoil" design is a great example of a guitar pickup skillfully engineered to make optimum use of neodymium without resorting to tiny individual magnets like you've used, an approach that would be too delicate and time consuming for efficient production. www.wildepickups.com/images/ddce0d3d0b169381f97ece44a4c11a84.jpg

The function of the magnet is not to magnetize the strings but to envelope the coil in a magnetic field. While it is true that the strings become magnetized when the magnetic field from the magnet passes through it, it is merely derived from the field of the magnet and it is temporary. What is inevitably detected by the coil is the motion of the field, its compression and expansion, that is within the coil from the magnetic pole pieces and not from the magnetized strings. The magnetic field propagates in bands or lines and they follow the path of least resistance or the path that is most magnetically permeable. One peculiar feature of the magnetic field lines is that they propagate in quantized levels, meaning that they do not intersect and they do not leap from one level to another. The field lines that reach the strings will flow through the length of the string until they loop back. The magnetic field lines will pass through it until it is saturated. When the string moves, the field lines that are flowing in it will also move. Since the field lines do not intersect, movement of the field lines in the string will cause all the field lines to move simultaneously in a sort of a quantum entanglement. This will cause movement of the electrons in the coil in relation to the movement of the magnetic field. The fluctuating movement of flow of electrons creates a fluctuating voltage level which appears as AC after passing through a DC blocking capacitor in the amplifier, guitar or measuring equipment such as a voltmeter or oscilloscope. Without the DC blocking capacitor, the output of the pickup is a fluctuating DC signal. Your explanation of the function of the magnet in a pickup will not be able to explain the following situations. Put a magnet close to the pole pieces such that they repel each other. The pole pieces cannot be said that it is magnetizing the other magnet and the field of the said magnet cannot reach the coil of the pickup because it is being repelled by the magnetic field of the pole pieces. But when you move that magnet, it will create a signal output from the coil. The reason is that the compression and expansion of the magnetic field of the pole pieces caused by the movement of the other magnet is creating a signal from the coil. Now, let's change the setup. Remove the pole pieces and place small disc magnets or a ceramic bar magnet on top of the pickup such that it is between the coil and the strings. It cannot be said that the magnetized string is creating or inducing a field in the coil since the magnet is between the coil and the string and its magnetic field is stronger and closer to the coil. But when the string vibrates, it will create a signal from the coil. Again, this can be explained by the movement of the field of the magnet that is within the coil caused by the moving field in the string at the opposite side. Since the magnetic field is propagating in all directions from its poles looping from one end to the other, it is susceptible to be "disturbed" by stray fields from all directions. One solution to this problem is to place a "magnet shield" to redirect and control the magnetic field, to a certain degree, around the pickup. A permeable metal plate that is a little larger than the coil placed at the bottom of the pickup will change the shape of the magnetic field and reduce noise but it will also change the frequency response of the coil. The base plate in a tele pickup functions as a magnet shield. The very nature of how inductors work and how they are constructed shows that they have cores. All inductors have cores. The absence of a tangible object does not mean that it does not have a core, it only means that it has an "air core" which is a core with mu0. A plastic or ceramic core is considered an air core. You also have misconceptions about the function of the core. The presence of a magnetically permeable material as a core is not merely to increase the inductance of the coil, which will change the frequency response of the coil. Its shape and material will determine its efficiency in transferring or converting energy and also its susceptibility to stray fields and noise. Higher permeability pole pieces appear to have a "clearer definition". I have tried using hardened steel as pole pieces and they have more pronounced high midrange frequencies. With high permeability pole pieces, it is advisable to keep them short. The only problem with hardened steel is that it is almost impossible to cut and form them with ordinary tools. One solution I found is to use hardened steel set screws which you can buy according to the diameter and length that you need, or at least close to what you need. Dimension measurements are available in imperial and metric units. I have another video on this type of modification (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kN-Pd9CSvtbUnqc.html). In my other video on magnetic field simulation (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qZZ_jdxp3J60omw.html), it shows how the location of the disc magnet can have an effect on the "tone" of the pickup. Knowing how the field propagates in free air or space and through the string, showing which portions of it may have a greater effect on the field, in conjunction with the properties of the coil, can tell you what the characteristics of the pickup will have. In the description, I described how this relates to the output, as I perceived it. I even suggested that placing the magnet in the middle of the pole piece might be the ideal location for a disc magnet. I have tried this and I find it very appealing.

My understanding of how a pickup functions as a transducer comes from a world-famous expert -- one of only two people to have designed pickups for both Gibson and Fender -- with whom I studied for over a decade on and off. A good deal of your verbose explanation(s) apparently comes from trial and error experimentation with a rather incomplete theoretical background in the pertinent electrodynamics. As a result, there is a combination of accurate information -- e.g. different core materials result in different frequency response curves in otherwise identical coils -- and misconceptions/generalizations in what you write. E.g., it is conventional to call a coil without a ferromagnetic core an "air coil," but this is misleading because such a coil would function exactly the same in a vacuum -- IOW, it actually doesn't have a core that functions as such. FYI, you can buy silicon steel, suitable stainless steels, and even very highly permeable permalloy in shapes suitable for pole pieces right off the shelf, so there's no need to cut or machine anything in order to use such materials in a pickup. I will not bother correcting you anymore -- being nearly 70 years old I have neither the time nor the ambition to be seen as a pickup guru to the U-Toob masses. Moreover, one doesn't have to possess a thorough understanding of this stuff to make a good pickup -- guys like Seymour Duncan, not to mention old-timers like Leo Fender and Seth Lover, knew a good deal less than you do and have succeeded in making world famous pickups anyway. Good luck -- IMO you stand a better chance than most. :-)

Sir, your reply was sent to my spam folder by KZfaq and I only discovered it just now and approved it. I really do not relish in describing myself but your reply leaves me no choice. I would like to apologize now as I foresee this as another "verbose explanation." How I wish it was true that what I know comes from trial and error experimentation because that would mean that I have access to sophisticated equipment to test what I have described, such as manifestations of quantized levels and quantum entanglement. These are concepts in theoretical physics and quantum mechanics which an average learner like me can only read from textbooks. I am not tutored by only one mentor so I do not carry intellectual prejudices. I have read many journals, articles and publications and papers from university libraries or their department resources that are available online from Princeton, Cambridge, Harvard, MIT, etc. You can Google these papers. I have also read a lot of books. It is rather interesting that you find that I have an "incomplete theoretical background in the pertinent electrodynamics" but what is it in electricity and electronics, analog or digital, as a field of study, that you find related to pickups, aside from the study of inductors and electromagnetism, which I have not already discussed? What aspect of inductors and electromagnetism, and magnetism in general, that you are expecting to be discussed which I have not touched upon? With all due respect, sir, I have not found any article, publication or paper, even those that have been archived, that supports your description of the operation of a pickup. Perhaps, you misinterpreted or misunderstood what has been conveyed to you. Or you may have drawn strained conclusions from illustrations depicting a magnetized string over a coil. You are correct in so far as the string is magnetized but you are totally wrong to say that it is the magnetic field of the string that is inducing EMF in the coil. There is nothing to support such a conclusion. In the first place, it is the magnetic flux of the pole pieces that is causing the string to be magnetized. And, second, the coil is surrounded by the magnetic flux of the pole pieces. It stands to reason, therefore, any induced EMF in the coil would be coming from the magnetic flux of the pole pieces. For example, sir, this paper from the Physics Department of Princeton (www.physics.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/examples/guitar.pdf) (link was provided by GCKelloch in our discussion below), in presenting a very intriguing and interesting pickup phenomenon, follows the model I described. I did not make up my description of how the pickup works but merely simplified it, omitting to mention that the string is magnetized preferring, instead, to dwell on the fact that magnetic flux is flowing through it, which is the same thing but avoiding the misconception that the string is an independent magnet. Assuming without conceding that your model is correct, in the two case studies I described in my previous comment, you failed to explain those phenomena using the model you are espousing. The world-famous expert on pickups you relied upon cannot argue here to support his thesis but you are not also supporting him by failing to properly describe the properties of his model to explain the case studies. Perhaps you can present a paper that he wrote related to this matter, or link to it, or a discussion involving it, so that I can better appreciate where you are coming from. I would also like to point out, up to this time, you have not yet explained how a tiny neodymium disc magnet on an iron rod (pole piece) can have a magnetic strength greater than a ceramic bar magnet on a pickup. I respectfully submit that you have now even contradicted your earlier statement that, "no magnet change is going to fix a poorly wound coil". Sir, you mentioned that I have misconceptions and I stated mere generalizations but its unfortunate that you failed to mention which ones are these from my "verbose explanation(s)", leaving me no opportunity to explain and expound on those supposed generalizations or misconceptions. However, you mentioned that the "air core" that I referred to in my reply is a misconception because it is the same as vacuum, and therefore, according to you, it is the same as no core. I agree that air core is the same as vacuum and its permeability actually presumes a state of vacuum. However, that state of permeability (vacuum) is still a physical state that describes such core. It is still a core but its value is mu0. Textbook authors refer to it as an "air core" and not as a "vacuum core". In fact, plastic and ceramic cores are considered air cores but they are not actually vacuum. As I have already said, coils have cores by the very nature of how they function. An air core or vacuum core has mu0 permeability but it is still a core. All books treat air cores as real cores, integral to the function of the inductor. I am not trying to project myself as a "guru" of any sort. I am not even an expert by any stretch. I am continuously learning as I try to understand so many things by reading and listening to lectures. Although I still have a few more ideas on pickups, I have no plans to go into serious pickup research and/or production. I am only trying to find a way to improve crap and/or scrap pickups. I am merely explaining aspects of the video I presented. But suffice it to say that technical matters can be simplified. As Einstein said, if you cannot explain it to a bar maid, you do not understand it, or something to that effect. Both of us agree that one doesn't have to posses great wealth of information and knowledge to make or modify a pickup. That much is our common ground. I think my video presentation has sufficiently demonstrated that.

Yes, indeed.

Thanks! I still don't have a spare guitar to make recordings of a before and after the modification. See my other video on magnet simulations kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qZZ_jdxp3J60omw.html and read the description to get an idea on what to expect.

Wire size and the number of winding does affect the output of the pickup. Simply put, the coil is responsible for "translating" the magnetic field variations into an electrical signal. This modification changes the magnetic field propagation of the pole pieces which changes how the strings affect the field variations in the coil. But it's much more complicated than that.

@@john.doesnt Thank you, I guess there is a lot of physics stuff one should know to understand it properly, that's why I'm so confused XD

Yes sir, you can put the neodymium magnets at the bottom of the pole pieces right after removing the ceramic bar magnet. Before applying glue I suggest that you try putting one neodymium at the bottom first, then two neodymiums at the bottom, then one neodymium at the top. Go for the configuration that sounds best for you. Spread a light glue over the bobbin and neodymiums. Avoid putting glue in between the neodymiums and the pole pieces so that it will be easier to separate them if and when you decide to modify your pickups again. If you decide to put one neodymium on top, push the pole pieces in the bobbin just a little bit, so that the neodymium, or part of it is in the pickup cover, then apply a thin glue on the side between the pole pieces and the neodymiums. This will prevent the neodymiums from separating from the pole pieces in the event that you hit it with a pick while playing.

@@john.doesnt tell me, why did you even remove the magnet at all? simply sticking a neo magnet under it WOULD increase the pull just the same.

You ("us") have asked that question, in one form or another, several times already and I have answered all of them. One of you ("us") have even graciously provided a link.

Yeah, I heard the chickens (rooster), and it sounded like he was getting very excited at the completion of the pickup mod.

Thank you.

There are several ways Fender manufactures its pickups. As you described, the Alnico-flatwork pickup is the defining standard of a Fender single coil. But there are also Fender pickups that are made with ceramic bar and slugs, similar to the "cheap" third party pickups. There are also P90-style pickups made by Fender. Presently, there are a slew of "noiseless" pickups from Fender. The part of the magnetic field that greatly influences the sound of the pickup is the external part of the field that passes through the strings. Defining or predicting how that external field propagates will greatly influence the "tone" of the pickup. In the description in my other video (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qZZ_jdxp3J60omw.html), I briefly discussed the effect of magnet placement in the pole pieces. Defining the ideal tone is very subjective and I would refrain from making a recommendation on what is the best configuration but I have my preferences. Pickup construction involving magnet-coil-string coupling affects the output "tone" of the pickup. But another reason why Alnico pickups have their distinctive sound is also due to the magnetic permeability of the pole piece material, the Alnico rod itself. In modifying a cheap pickup, changing the stock pole pieces made from mild steel to high permeability hardened steel will further change or "improve" the tone of the pickup. Watch my other video (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kN-Pd9CSvtbUnqc.html) and read the description and comments.

Disregard on certain importance of my consideration, still I did not expected answers much, especially that fast, so thank you! Anyhow, I addressed it to all interested for the "mystery" of simplest, but branded single coil pickups. The main first part of my comment was not only about Alnico, than of course Ceramic single coil pickups also, and I am was not about considering finesses in any of pickup materials, magnetic constructions ... which of course affect the sound, but not so significantly, like o. e. guitar wood do not affect much. I am not sure what was intention of many branded manufacturers of single coil pickups they considering what I am talking about, or not. But, we can see that practically none of them wound magnetic wire over plastic bobbin, than directly over the rods. From whatever reason, they just following basic original Fender construction. For about electromagnetic pickups, Fender together with Gibson provided long ago almost nonchangeable standards, considering electronic path of amplifiers, ... but also many other nonchangeable things are there, like o. e. - the top of magnetic construction nearest to the guitar wires must not be too strong, otherwise would affect the guitar intonation. Or, adding more pickup windings will affect the intensity of pickup signal and tone most significantly, but on the other hand there is limit because tone will became more and more muddy - what is contrary of this initial intention to get stronger pickup output, but with clear tone like basic construction has. Exactly this addressing my point I am repeating, that main part of pickup windings is just nearest to the magnetic rods, where is achieved most clear and intensive sounding.

It is actually a terrible idea to wind directly on the metal pole pieces. That is why old-style Fender pickups are so inconsistent -- it's better to have a thin layer of electrical insulation like paper tape between the wire and the poles or, better yet, to put thin-walled plastic bushings on the two outer poles. Either way, you prevent shorts between the inner windings and the poles (the insulation of magnet wire is very thin and not reliable when in contact with a big metal object under winding tension) and also limit capacitance between those windings the pole piece surfaces.

Of course it is not so good to wind literally directly on the metal rods, and exactly - that IS the reason why many of Fender vintage pickups become inconsistent. It is because of influence of time with moisture, oil, any dirts, that corrosion appear exactly where wire touch the metal rods and broke it. I heard Fender applied thin layer of lacquer on the rods before windings to isolate them, but it did not much solved the problem. if you put THIN paper or any thin isolation there it would not change original sounding in general, but if there is thick material like mostly in cheap Chinese pickups it will be exactly like I described. Capacitance between wires and rods is not much considerable also, especially because rods are not grounded. To say, roughly and simplest made pickup would be the best sounding one, most solved pickup would not so. But, believe me people do so many things like o.e. even make pickups "without" feedback that is not poured in wax. You can always make some enough good compromise in design between sound quality or durability, or to go in any of extremes, but it is just on you which kind of result you want. Cheers

Thank you for your comment. Finally, a viewer comparison of the neodymium-modified pickup with "overpriced overhyped pickups". I'm just curious, what configuration did you use in your neodymium-modified pickup? Did you use the stock pole pieces? Did you use N35 or N52 neodymium magnet? What was the thickness of your neodymium magnet or did you stack magnets? May I ask your indulgence to share the details of your neodymium pickup and your observations in comparing the pickups. I want to know how to improve the neodymium modification. Thank you.

@Charlie Foxtrot The 3rd - Hello! Your comments were intriguing and I'm very interested in your learned insights. In what way were the Fender Tex Mex and DiMarzio True Velvet pickups you mentioned "better" than the neodymium-modified pickup? Your reply will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Charlie Foxtrot The 3rd - I'm sorry but your comment cannot be taken seriously and must be dismissed as conjectural and baseless for your failure and refusal to elaborate. But in order to give some perspective on the prices you mentioned, the neodymium disc magnets used in the modification described in my video will cost an average of US$2.

Most of the time, the pole pieces are already "waxed in" the bobbin holes so you do not have to put wax in the stock pole pieces. But if you are going to replace the stock pole pieces, putting wax is an option to keep them from vibrating but do not apply wax on the neodymium magnets. Wax is applied hot and it might degrade the neodymium magnets. If you want to wax pot the coil, do it before placing the neodymium magnets but you have to scrape off all the wax at the bottom of the pole pieces to have a good coupling between the magnet and the pole pieces.

There will be no appreciable change in "tone" if the ceramic magnet is not removed. The essence of the modification is to change the shape of the magnetic field propagation, which will change the "tone" of the pickup.

The magnets used in this video are N52 5mm diameter x 1mm thickness.

I did not have an opportunity to experiment at length with bar magnets because early on, my neodymium bar magnets (60mm x 10mm x 2mm) broke. The concept I had in mind for attaining substantial improvement is to alter the propagation of the magnetic field. There is a very discernible distinction between pickups with a single bar magnet and individual magnet pole pieces. But to answer your question, using a single neodymium bar magnet will increase the volume output but will not substantially change the frequency response or "tone" of the pickup. Keep in mind that an increase in volume output is usually perceived as an improvement in "tone".

Short answer: No. Coils of ceramic pickups are wound in plastic bobbins, unlike alnico pickups, which are wound directly over the pole pieces that are held by phenolic boards called "flatwork". Not to be flippant, but, bobbins are bobbins. The confusion is caused by guitar parts suppliers who refer to alnico pickup phenolic boards as "bobbin flatwork". In coil construction, a bobbin is a material that secures the coil and separates it from the core. It is sometimes called a "coil former" or "coil mount". So, a "flatwork" is not a bobbin because it is just a board that functions as a flange to keep the coil from slipping beyond the core, which is the pole pieces, and it also keeps the pole pieces in place. So, why are parts sellers creating this confusion? Probably to make cheap boards appear unique, more functional and make it sound expensive.

This modification should work with the pickups of a Precision Bass. I haven't tried it but I suggest that you put magnets on the top and bottom of the pole pieces instead of putting them on the bottom only. That should give the sound more "definition" and still maintain a clear "bottom" or bass sound. But you should secure the magnet on top with a stronger adhesive.

"Improve" is a relative term. The change will be noticeable but whether you will like it or not is another matter. If this is any indication of the quality of the change, it has been over a year since this video was posted and, as far as I can recall, nobody has commented that the modification was not good and only one has confirmed to have made the modification and had a good experience. I have not allowed or have deleted a few comments that contained too much profanity and as far as I can remember, they were really not relevant. In any event, it's up to you to evaluate the risk and decide whether this is worth your time, effort and cheap pickups.

john doesnt ok....thanks!

Based on how I hear it, unlike ceramic pickups, which usually have very pronounced upper midrange frequencies (2-4 KHz) and strong midrange (500Hz - 2KHz), the neodymium modification as demonstrated in this video, with only one disc magnet at the bottom of the stock pole pieces, low midrange frequencies (250-500 Hz) are more pronounced and the midrange frequencies are stronger. Changing the material of the pole pieces (magnetic permeability) and/or their length will have an effect on the "tone" of the pickup. Also, magnet strength (number of magnets) as well as its location in the pole piece will also have an effect on the "tone" and the output power of the pickup. Watch my other video on magnet simulation (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qZZ_jdxp3J60omw.html) and read its description to get an idea of the other possibilities. Also, watch my new tutorial on using hardened steel as pole pieces (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kN-Pd9CSvtbUnqc.html). The magnet modification in my videos are very easy to do and if you are not satisfied with the result, you can try the other options for modification or revert back to the original ceramic magnet. Humbuckers have different structures, and they usually have one set of adjustable screws that are mounted on a metal bar. Also, their pickup covers will prevent adding disc magnets directly under the pole pieces, unless you cut them. I haven't tried modifying humbuckers but I suppose the easiest way to modify them is to replace their ceramic magnets with a similar sized neodymium or alnico magnets. Either way, it will not be a cheap modification. There are several tutorials out there on how to go about magnet swap on humbuckers. You may want to view or read about them.

The height and/or length of the pole pieces are some of the variables enumerated in the video that can affect the output sound of a pickup and it is better left to the preferences of the viewer. This video shows the procedure to make the basic modification only since there are many variations in doing it.