How to Make Your Own Anti-Backlash Nuts - Ask a Tech #39

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GuruBrew2

GuruBrew2

9 жыл бұрын

Backlash is an engineering term that basically means slop or play between two surfaces in a mechanically moving device. Gear trains or lead screws are typically the subject of this discussion. I show how I made my own simple anti-backlash nuts to compensate for this problem when installed in a CNC router cutter machine.
Your Name: Jim
Title of Question: CNC
The Question: Watched your video on your reworking your old CNC machine. You talked about the anti-backlash nut and was wondering if you could provide more information on how to build.
I built my own CNC machine using MDF and the drive shafts are 1/2" 13 TPI steel rod.
You have great videos!
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Пікірлер: 69
@leelipinski4667
@leelipinski4667 6 жыл бұрын
Hi. Just getting into the whole cnc diy project and have to say I didn't know what a Backlash spring nut even was. But by the end of your video. Clear as a bell. And so simple to. Thanks for sharing your skills.
@edwinortiz2513
@edwinortiz2513 6 жыл бұрын
I had received a bad anti-backlash nut from a CnC kit I purchase and the company did not respond back, I was going to purchase one, but came across your video and it helped a great deal in making my own anti-backlash nut, it was for a 1/2" 5 start and 10 TPI ACME screw. Thanks for the video!!
@retiredtom1654
@retiredtom1654 8 жыл бұрын
Nice easy fit. I'm going to build my first CNC using box store screw rod, so I will need to solve this issue. Thanks, Tom
@ananpillai2783
@ananpillai2783 8 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing that information. Great videos.
@kyleedugger
@kyleedugger 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Very nicely done. Simple and to the point.
@bakers2581
@bakers2581 8 жыл бұрын
Thanks, this was exactly what I needed
@petersmith5277
@petersmith5277 5 жыл бұрын
Very helpful and - for me - to be immediately applied. Thanks
@maxximumb
@maxximumb 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the clear explanation.
@carlcox6563
@carlcox6563 9 жыл бұрын
Thank you! It's a great tip!
@keithnoneya
@keithnoneya 6 жыл бұрын
Cool, i'm going through this problem right now designing and building a custom CNC machine. Love your videos. I just noticed I hadn't subscribed. So I fixed that problem. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Best Wishes n Blessings. Keith Noneya
@davidschwartz5127
@davidschwartz5127 3 жыл бұрын
The most critical item in backlash technology if there is such a thing is not only the nuts ability to be adjusted to fit the screw thread tightly but, the screw rod threads must be exactly the same over the entire distance of travel of the nut, if not, it wears the nut out in only a few passes to fit the unworn thread sections, that why the spring may be the best chance?
@thx1138y
@thx1138y 7 жыл бұрын
Regards from Chile,very elegant job. a Question, can i do it in aluminun or other metal?,there are some diferences? in the designe? TKS A LOTS!!
@kennethkustren9381
@kennethkustren9381 5 жыл бұрын
another version might use a coupling nut (tpi count issues) that could be modified. It is 4x the length of normal but. Also precision ground threaded rod is not expensive, and available in many tpi counts.
@rickmccaskill7888
@rickmccaskill7888 6 жыл бұрын
Are you still using the threaded rod or have you changed to an Acme screw? If you haven't gone to an Acme screw how is your thread rod and anti-backlash nuts working out? I am working on a larger CNC and was looking at using threaded rod since they are considerably less costly.
@hootinouts
@hootinouts 2 жыл бұрын
Good explanation. Delrin is s good material but if you really want a great material, consider MDS filled nylon (Nylatron). It is a little pricey but has excellent wear resistance and a very low coefficient of friction. Your motors will thank you for using it.
@moodasio
@moodasio 8 жыл бұрын
really helpful ......
@pocaranza
@pocaranza 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@AlexandrosNikolakis
@AlexandrosNikolakis 9 жыл бұрын
So if i understood right these two screws bring together the two nuts?
@realjaxon
@realjaxon 7 жыл бұрын
would this work for a camera slider?
@TimMeschke
@TimMeschke 9 жыл бұрын
The plastic used in those cutting boards is High Density Polyethylene (HDPE), just for future reference.
@ronaldnickell6110
@ronaldnickell6110 6 жыл бұрын
Just for future reference, that is the same thing your milk jug is made of . So just cut up some milk jugs , and melt the pieces at 400 degrees F and pour it into an empty soup can. Instant stock for making anti-backlash nuts.
@Freetheworldnow
@Freetheworldnow 7 ай бұрын
Using springs is a much better choice when the lead screw is unevenly worn out.
@Abhisphukan
@Abhisphukan 5 жыл бұрын
just subscribed your channel
@greggsenne1268
@greggsenne1268 8 жыл бұрын
What about using a piece of threaded rod as the tap to get a really close fit in a plastic nut? You could file a cutting edge into the rod to cut the plastic (delrin or some such). Such a tap would be an inefficient cutter which might leave a slightly undersized internal thread form in the nut. Could this prevent backlash? Any experience with this?
@1pcfred
@1pcfred 8 жыл бұрын
+Gregg Senne I made my own ACME tap to thread HDPE out of a piece of threaded rod and the nut came out too tight until I modified the teeth of my homemade tap a little by peening the cutting faces to spread them out a little.
@PrevailingDanger
@PrevailingDanger 9 жыл бұрын
can you apply this same method to make linear bearings/bushing?
@lmeza1983
@lmeza1983 8 жыл бұрын
+PrevailingDanger Im not really sure what you mean by "making linear bearings" but in this one backlash is way better explained. watch?v=NqF_ETWvBCA
@williamjames2225
@williamjames2225 8 жыл бұрын
Great Video! Quick question though, did you tap the cutting board material by hand? If yes, does it not wear out? I'm currently using a hex-nut and threaded rod and am getting way too much backlash. I would like to try the method you have shown but don't know if the threads on the white material will wear out quick? Thanks
@GuruBrew2
@GuruBrew2 8 жыл бұрын
+William James Hi, Ya, I tapped the cutting board holes by hand. Actually I used a little battery powered screwdriver on low speed. The backlash nuts I made work great and I never needed to replace yet. When you first start using them make sure you put plenty pressure between the two plates with the adjustment screws and it will wear itself in nicely.
@williamjames2225
@williamjames2225 8 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much! :) If I may, I would like to get your opinion on the X-Carve by Inventables. I'm looking at cutting aluminum, coroplast, and wood. The router I would be hooking up to it would be a DeWALT DWP611, and am sure that the router can handle it. However, I'm not sure if the system is capable. I'm fairly new to the CNC scene so I thought it may be a good idea to run it by you. As well, I'm a little thrown off by the name... it's called "x-carve"... does it simply carve shapes, or will it actually cut shapes out like a normal CNC machine does. Thanks again.
@GuruBrew
@GuruBrew 8 жыл бұрын
+William James well it's hard for me to say because I don't own one but I would say it's a lighter Duty machine that is mainly built for carving but I don't see any reason why you couldn't do any real cutting weather you just would have to use slower speeds and I think you could do some really good projects with it
@williamjames2225
@williamjames2225 8 жыл бұрын
+GuruBrew - Thank you so much for your input :)
@Peeseebeeb
@Peeseebeeb 7 жыл бұрын
The High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) used in the cutting boards is a low friction material. It is friction that causes wear and the lower the friction, the lower the wear. Of course they will wear to some extent, that is the purpose of the adjusting threads to compensate for the small amount of wear as it becomes apparent.
@solarsynapse
@solarsynapse 9 жыл бұрын
Nice design! I think the slop comes from the threads being a 75% depth cut which is typical because it is just about as strong as 100% without the problems of precision. It also allows for lube, crud and imperfections. If it was possible to have a 100% depth cut I think that there would not be any backlash (slop). Maybe that would be possible with a plastic "nut" and metal screw but are there any 100% taps that exist??? Has anyone been creative and put an 8-32 screw into a heated plastic 6-32 hole? That would be tight.
@kickpublishing
@kickpublishing 9 жыл бұрын
I am guessing somebody tells you that you sound like Seth Rogen every fews days or so
@donepearce
@donepearce 2 жыл бұрын
The springs you get on hobby machines don't work. They appear to be fine when you are measuring backlash on an unloaded axis, but as soon as they start leaning against a cut to drive a bit the spring is not up to the task and all the backlash reappears. A rigid structure such as you have made here is the only working solution. It would be even better made from metal, and with the mods you have here you can easily machine some aluminium to do the job.
@kammowright7081
@kammowright7081 9 жыл бұрын
How would you thead it for a start 2 rod?
@RobertSmith-we4hm
@RobertSmith-we4hm 9 жыл бұрын
Kammo Wright I would take a short piece of excess 2 start rod and create a tap out of it with a grinder. This would be tapered from full diameter to your predrilled starter hole size and slotted along its length to create the cutting faces. The slots should be deep enough to allow for some scarf to accumulate.
@kammowright7081
@kammowright7081 9 жыл бұрын
OK thank you!
@donovanpl
@donovanpl 7 жыл бұрын
As I understand it, you can add a variable in software to take care of backlash, why would you not just implement the fix in software?
@aaronshed
@aaronshed 7 жыл бұрын
You can't fix it in software properly. You could hack in something that could help a little, but it would not be accurate. The "wiggle" can change over time as parts wear out, different amounts of force, how level the machine is, etc. There is no way to accurately predict it every time. Making your own anti-backlash nuts is cheap and easy, there's no reason to compromise on accuracy by not making them.
@1pcfred
@1pcfred 7 жыл бұрын
Why make a crappy machine? The machine just being accurate is your best bet.
@MsSomeonenew
@MsSomeonenew 7 жыл бұрын
Unless you are adding an additional and highly accurate sensor array the software has no actual way of knowing where your machine goes, so the simple fix is mere guesswork.
@1pcfred
@1pcfred 7 жыл бұрын
MsSomeonenew yeah but it all still works. My machine can put down dots, then draw circles around those dots. It can do it repeatably, and without fail too. It used to amaze me, but I've gotten used to it over time. See this picture? i.imgur.com/YjsaF5g.jpg My machine didn't draw it once, it didn't draw it twice, it drew it three times. All it did was make the ink darker with each pass.
@donovanpl
@donovanpl 7 жыл бұрын
Paul Frederick Meaning what, you implemented backlash compensation in software?
@ksneric
@ksneric 6 жыл бұрын
dude! your are Ron Swanson!!! great info buy the way!
@chicagolathe-shopmaster-sh1680
@chicagolathe-shopmaster-sh1680 9 жыл бұрын
The term is AXIS not ACCESS
@shotgun2a
@shotgun2a 7 жыл бұрын
Also, "tapped" and not "taped".
@jothain
@jothain 5 жыл бұрын
@@shotgun2a makes a lot sense. I was looking at drawing and wondering what "taped" hole? Cause I was skipping parts of the video. Realized that after seeing actual parts. Also got slight grin from the term "backslash nut" :)
@shotgun2a
@shotgun2a 5 жыл бұрын
@@jothain Yeah, there's actually a lot going on in this video that made me cringe.
@jeffbeck6501
@jeffbeck6501 8 жыл бұрын
Skip to 2:00
@ArcAiN6
@ArcAiN6 7 жыл бұрын
Axis, not access. ..
@sz72909
@sz72909 9 жыл бұрын
Just a little constructive criticism, it's a Z-AXIS (pronounced as: ax-iz), not a Z-ACCESS. Thanks for all your hard work on the videos. The plural is Axes (pronounced as ax-ie-z). Sorry, I don't mean to be negative, just trying to be helpful.
@binness
@binness 8 жыл бұрын
+Steven Zara Please, get a life, it does not matter how he says the word, or how he spells it, or how he punctuates it. YOU KNEW WHAT IT WAS, THE WORLD AND ITS DOG KNEW. Go put your own videos up, the mans doing everybody a favour with all his videos, and all you can do is knock him, by the way I am not knocking you, just trying to be helpful.
@sz72909
@sz72909 8 жыл бұрын
Did you read my comment? I was very polite to the guy, and thanked him for his hard work. Maybe you should consider getting a life, and not annoy people who are not being rude!
@junang3
@junang3 7 жыл бұрын
Steven, i pronounce your name as estivin, does it matter? Regionally there are differences, but that's what globalization is and i understood him fine. It could have been fine if you said, 'i usually pronounce it as ax-iz' than saying it's wrong.
@adisharr
@adisharr 6 жыл бұрын
Informing him how to pronounce 'axis' properly has value. This is not a regional pronunciation. It has been 'axis' since the beginning of time and provides credibility.
@jdog4534
@jdog4534 6 жыл бұрын
binness you're out of line with your comment. It does matter what it's called. It should be corrected by someone who knows. to let it go if you know it's wrong is something a punk would do. To get upset over being corrected when you're wrong is, again, something a punk would do. I don't know the man who was kind and brave enough to share this video, but he didn't come off as a punk to me. When you have to talk to the professionals about this stuff, when you speak their language, you get better help because you're taken seriously. To let this go uncorrected is to encourage mediocrity. Mediocre people don't care about backlash. I think its highly noble of you to want to stick up for the guy who posted such a helpful video. But I feel your efforts here are counter productive. I hope my words are received in the manner they were intended. It's okay to be wrong. Its not ok to stay wrong.
@norahung588
@norahung588 4 жыл бұрын
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@garym1550
@garym1550 6 жыл бұрын
If you do it, do it right! Yea, you could use a spring? Come on, how many people want to keep adjusting the tension. The spring is to make it self adjusting and to keep a constant tension on the nut so that the nut performs consistently for it's design life. You explained how it works but you failed in your attitude when it comes to making one.
@anthonytuttle5354
@anthonytuttle5354 6 жыл бұрын
There is more to this than short comments in videos and in the comment section. That kind of anti backlash nut has the problem that If the mill table is moved the direction towards the flange with significant force, the spring will compress and there goes your backlash. This can be a big problem because you can't guess whether the spring will compress for a given job, once it does it's unpredictable what will happen, and you will only know after you've made the cut. Some people say to use a stiffer spring, but this increases the force needed to turn the leadscrew, and makes it harder to turn. In reality a solid nut like this has reasonably low resistance and as he said he has never had to readjust it. This nut works just as well in both directions and works predictably. If he ever does have to readjust it, I doubt he will be disappointed. After so long, it will probably actually be kind of stimulating to do this kind of maintenance, like a rare trip out of town.
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