How to Measure UA Apollo Aux Delay/Offset and Align & Compensate for it

Рет қаралды 3,939

Жыл бұрын

Measure the offset with your dry and wet signal when using auxes to do simultaneous recording or creative routing in Console. Applies to Sphere, amp sims, etc.
CORRECTION: In the video I stated that Medium adds 100 samples, but Medium adds 200 samples.
Console IDC Values are as follows:
Short - 100 samples
Medium - 200 samples
Medium-Long - 300 samples
Long - 1000 samples
Here's a chart with all UAD plugin latencies listed - docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
#matthepworth #studionu #uadforums #matthepworthrecording #uaapollo #protools

Пікірлер: 97

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

Correction - Medium is 200 samples. I said that wrong in the video. Short is 100 samples.

@DeadOriginalMusic 10 ай бұрын

Do the inserts vary depending on what plug in you are using? Or is it pretty consistent?

@MattHepworth 10 ай бұрын

@@DeadOriginalMusic I suppose they could vary. There's a latency chart I made that may be helpful here - docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XjfD0GxEnWS_4nqWcz3J_RUEQDuBjCYhnO8YeiBuKWk

@tmartin6717 Жыл бұрын

Thanks, always good to learn these details.

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

Thanks for checking it out!

@raymondb8596 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this. New to Apollo and all of this and I am losing my mind and so this help!

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

Glad it's helpful!

@fannarfreyr3282 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for this great explanation! Very good video :)

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@68Snaps 6 ай бұрын

Clear and simple. Thanks 🙂

@MattHepworth 6 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@christopherjbutler 2 ай бұрын

This is great stuff, Saw your correction below pinned in the comments here too. I am an RTFM kind of guy, but there's a lot of M(anual) pages to read with UAD and I am not even sure if they cover this detail clearly.. I got my start with analog tape and SMPTE synced sequencers... Never really had to think about stuff like this back then. (there were other annoyances and details instead lol) Subscribed. Thanks for the tip in the UAD forum and the link that brought me here. I have been working at 44.1with the default IDC at medium since I got my x8p.. I only really use Console Auxes for effects in the headphones for the talent during tracking, I never print effects (or anything else) through the auxes in UAD console.. When I track my vocals I DO however run my 1073 in unison and an 1176 legacy in an insert slot and said insert is set to print usually. I commit my vocals the same way I used to when using tape, with the mic pre and tracking compression that sits well in my cans, prevents overloads and is inspiring to sing with and work with my voice without squashing the life out of it. If you set an insert to print, does it have the same exception to the rule of sample delay that the unison slot does? (I need to re-watch this video again until I fully grok the math and how it applies to what I am even asking.. I need coffee lol)

@MattHepworth 2 ай бұрын

Thank you! So, Unison will ALWAYS print. Keep that in mind. If Unison is feeding an aux, you're still dealing with the same number of samples of delay, which, if you're using 100% wet FX is only a predelay happening. One that that's super hard to wrap your head around is with IDC disabled (I always use it this way, personally, for the lowest latency) your tracks will print out of sync with each other, unless you compensate manually by using bypassed plugins (I do this). However, if you DO use IDC, the tracks will actually print on the timeline offset (late) the same number of samples as the max of the delay. When I switched to Carbon after some terrors with Apollo delay comp (turned out to be a PT setting that caused a bug) I was STILL running into wacky delay issues so often I was REALLY considering buying a tape machine again!

@christopherjbutler 2 ай бұрын

@@MattHepworthI am aware that Unison by nature always prints. I also happen to choose to have the insert for the compressor printing as well while tracking my vocals. :-)

@MattHepworth 2 ай бұрын

@christopherjbutler I usually do as well.

@BadiMusic Жыл бұрын

Super informative!! Thanks!!

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@dude_dulude 5 ай бұрын

Great vid!

@MattHepworth 5 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@DeadOriginalMusic 10 ай бұрын

Thank you for this!!!!

@MattHepworth 10 ай бұрын

Glad it's helpful!

@davidgerald2634 Жыл бұрын

Thanks Matt!

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

Happy to help!

@MurdaMetz Жыл бұрын

Oh wow , so unison prints correctly but inserts don’t , and I see now your right there’s 73 samples of latency on the aux ! Good stuff .

@DeadOriginalMusic 10 ай бұрын

Do the inserts vary depending on what plug in you are using? Or is it pretty consistent?

@MurdaMetz 10 ай бұрын

@@DeadOriginalMusic it consistent , the latency comes from the plug in being on an aux track , so if put the plug in as an insert and use the wet dry feature you’ll be golden . Also make sure to click whether or not you want to print the fx or not .

@DeadOriginalMusic 10 ай бұрын

75 aux and insert is about 128? @@MurdaMetz

@MurdaMetz 10 ай бұрын

@@DeadOriginalMusic there shouldn’t be any delay on the inserts , I was talking about on the aux track in console . Let me start over , you should have delay comp which takes care of the delay on plug in inserts in console , but the aux track in console will have 75 samples of delay no matter what you do .

@xforeverwarx 11 ай бұрын

Great info! How would you go, if you had an UAD 4710 running through the Apollos ADAT? Would you need to compensate for this, too?

@MattHepworth 11 ай бұрын

Thank you! Depending on what Apollo you have, you may need to compensate. I would measure the same way for both the Apollo vs Aux and the 4-710D vs the Aux. Whatever the difference between the two offsets is is how much difference there is between the Apollo and the 4-710D over ADAT.

@MurdaMetz Жыл бұрын

How do I record the aux track in pro tools , aux doesn’t even show up as io in console , I have an x16 and twin .

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

Here's how I do it - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mdhggdej3Km5f6M.html

@KIRKALAN123 3 ай бұрын

Excuse me but why not using Little Lab IBP ? I’m using it with my three microphones balance .

@MattHepworth 3 ай бұрын

IBP can be a great tool, too.

@MurdaMetz Жыл бұрын

So when you set idc to medium did it print the aux track 100 samples sooner on the timeline ? And am I correct hearing you say unison adds 73 samples of latency to the timeline ? Is your buffer set to 256 ? I notice the buffer will affect the way tracks are printed to timeline , so if I’m running a buffer of 256 samples then my tracks seem to be delayed by the same amount which is a problem imo when accuracy is fundamentally being compromised.

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

The aux is 73 samples later than the normal signal. However, with IDC on, the normal signal will actually print LATER than the aux because IDC will add 100, 200 samples, etc. to the timeline. Buffer will not affect it as long as that Ignore Errors is unchecked.

@MurdaMetz Жыл бұрын

@@MattHepworth hey so I unchecked ignore errors settings and did some recordings and I was surprised to find that you were right ! I find it really strange , and am wondering if this is meant to be this way , or if it’s a bug . I’d never guess that unchecking ignore playback errors would solve latency issues with tracks printing to the timeline correctly. Thanks Matt this def helps . I guess now I’m considering long term stability within the pro tools environment and dealing with 1 which is ideal when using the carbon vs Apollo , and I need to rewatch your videos about the pros and cons so I can decide if carbon is worth it for me .

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

No, it's definitely a bug. UA indicates the fix is on AVID's side, but it's a tough one. I'm glad I'm able to help!

@christopherjbutler 2 ай бұрын

@@MattHepworth Relating to your comment of it being an AVID bug... I use Reaper, and I wonder if I might see anything similar with that DAW..

@MattHepworth 2 ай бұрын

@christopherjbutler I wouldn't think so, but let me know!

@earlludwig3614 Жыл бұрын

One of my major concerns as a beginner, is making sure each and all tracks are aligned. I'm on a quest to study this topic to avoid unknowingly having a bunch of offset tracks as a result. Got to figure this out for the use of Console and Logic. In my searches, this topic isn't discussed enough, at least clearly and to the point. Your video helps to become aware of all the steps needed. I have an interest in Little Labs Time Align plugin for this purpose. Would this plugin help? Also, when compensating which track becomes the reference in which all others are to be positioned to? Thanks for posting this video!

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

Simply put, use IDC if you're recording sources that need to be phase coherent AND you aren't planning to keep things lined up manually by using specific plugins in Console (even bypassed) to line things up. Analog and digital inputs are delay compensated, but aux is not. With Medium IDC in Console, all compensated channels will be placed 100 samples later in the DAW timeline than if IDC was disabled.

@earlludwig3614 Жыл бұрын

@@MattHepworth Thank you Matt! Using IDC, as I understand it, is just a general compensation value. Just to ball park the adjustment? Too bad the prompt doesn't give a value, besides small, medium and large. Maybe an alignment resolution of 1 sample is not needed?

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

Correction - Medium is 200 samples. I said that wrong in the video. Short is 100 samples. IDC in Console is two fold: it delays the sound of the tracks *without* any plugins by the actual amount of the plugin latency (i.e. 55 samples for API Vision), in the DAW, however, it delays the signal by whatever the IDC value is set to (i.e. 100, 200, 300, 1000 samples). The reference time would actually be the track without IDC enabled, rather than posting the delayed signal to the timeline.

@kevinlentz7604 Жыл бұрын

@@MattHepworth I got smart turned it off completely no effects,no inserts,hardware compressor on the way in

@aeiplanner Жыл бұрын

So the more plugins I add, the more samples I need to compensate for?

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

If the plugins you add add latency (a little over half do) AND you're not printing them or using in the Unison slot, yes.

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

There's a latency chart at the top of uadforums.com under Resources that I made. Most new plugins add 55 samples.

@bobbieoneal Жыл бұрын

And what about two Guitar mics ?

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

With two guitar mics it's easiest if you initially align then with a clean, percussive tone, then you can dial in the dirt and blend.

@youngsikkk Жыл бұрын

If I am using the Neve 1073 w/EQ plugin in Unison and the Tube Tech CL1B Mkll on insert. I am printing the insert. What should I set the offset in pro tools when I have delay compensation? I have delay compensation in UA console turned off.

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

If you're using the aux you'll want to do -77 (CL1B mkii is 4 samples). Unison always prints, so I don't normally compensate for that, but if you wanted to be ultra-precise you'd offset -55 on the dry and -132 on the aux.

@youngsikkk Жыл бұрын

@@MattHepworth Sorry I am a bit unclear about the aux part. I am essentially monitoring through pro tools, thru an 'record' audio track, not an aux. In the Console app, I want to emulate the famous Neve 1073 + CL1B chain via unison and insert where I have 'print' active instead of 'monitor'. Also in Console, delay compensation is off. Now in pro tools, I record in 32 buffer size with delay compensation on with no issues whatsoever, however my concern is if the vocal chain in console are causing audio latency to the record takes? If so, I want to set an offset to the 'lead vocal' audio tracks that I will be dragging the punched in vocal's from the 'record' audio track from. Yes, I want to be ultra-precise. Please advise, thanks Matt!

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

Interesting. Monitoring through PT with Apollo isn't as typical, since the latency is higher, but totally fine to do, of course. 55 samples for Unison and 4 for the CL1B, but I don't think I'd try to compensate for it, as strange as that sounds. -59 samples would be the offset, but the offset is only active for playback, not recording, so rather than trying to deal with punch ins, I'd not worry about the offset. The way to test is to split and record two tracks - one without processing and compare in an overdub and offset active to see how it changes. In my opinion, it won't really be a concern.

@youngsikkk Жыл бұрын

@@MattHepworth Thanks for the reply Matt. I'll give it a test tonight with one track with the -59 offset on the playback track and the other one without it. I'll try to perform as tight as possible on beat and inspect which track is most accurate of the real time performance.

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

The only way to accurately judge is by doing both simultaneously. Only in punches/Overdubs will there be any variance. This is because the offset doesn't work during input monitoring. It doesn't have to be a mic to test, either. It could be a stereo cable from your phone playing a mono Transient (snare, even) recorded on two channels.

@teddybeargram3 Жыл бұрын

I want to see this on studio one. Noone can afford pro tools lmaoooo

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

You may have seen it already, but I cover the offset compensation in Studio One in this video - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/abZdmLun3NWRooU.html - start at about 7 minutes

@teddybeargram3 Жыл бұрын

@@MattHepworth that's it bro. Im just gonna come over there and spend a few weeks so you can teach me everything. Lol. I'll bring some steaks and the beer

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

I take my steaks medium rare, haha!

@kevinlentz7604 Жыл бұрын

Devil is in the details,Is what I’m finding out

@kevinlentz7604 Жыл бұрын

Hi Matt,what if you use ,external pre,amps ,no unison,I use hardware first,into Luna,no unison,Mix into other hardware also

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

External preamps are fine - no Unison delay. You'll still have Aux delay if you print wet/dry (safety/processed). If you're using ADAT preamps, though, you'll need to compensate for that.

@kevinlentz7604 Жыл бұрын

Hi Matt I don’t record with any effects either,on the way in,I just purchased Townsend Lab spire ,awesomeness is all I can say

@kevinlentz7604 Жыл бұрын

@@MattHepworth how much latency is in ADAT,SEEING HOW IM USEING TWO APOLLOS,AND 4710-d,set up with exsternalWoed clock

@MattHepworth Жыл бұрын

Every converter is different. There's no inherent latency to ADAT, so we're just talking about converter latency. 4-710D is 1 sample difference from silverface Apollos, and within about 10 samples of the mk II or X series.

@kevinlentz7604 Жыл бұрын

@@MattHepworth Matt I can’t believe the stuff you know ,how smart you are ,defiantly a game changer for me,Thank you so much ,staying tuned for what ever else come along Thank you again