How to mix on headphones professionally and achieve optimal translation

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Күн бұрын

How to mix on headphones professionally for optimum translation
Produce like a pro podcast episode with Emrah Celik
open.spotify.com/episode/5NJP...
My name is Paul Third and I am a Scottish youtuber / audio engineer / mixing engineer / audio geek. I mostly cover audio engineering related content ranging from audio plugin shootouts / plugin comparisons (acustica audio plugins, universal audio etc etc) to actual analog vs digital / gear vs plugins plugin tests via access analog and mix analog. I even include ddmf plugindoctor tutorials in my plugin reviews so you can be your very own plugin tester and experiment and understand whats actually going on under the hood. I also discuss digital music distribution from time to time and like to give my viewpoint on online music distributors such as onerpm and distrokid.
All of my audio blind tests involving music production software are conducted in avid pro tools 2021 which is my main daw and I also use HOFA blind test 4U as my blind test software. In terms of my audio interface I record and monitor through a universal audio apollo x6 through topping dx7 pro+ dac/amp and use an se dynacaster for all of my voice overs.
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📖 CHAPTERS
0:00 intro
1:58 investing in the right headphones
5:05 the importance of headphone amps and digital to analog convertors
6:48 why you should be using a harman curve when mixing on headphones
9:28 using a crosstalk headphone plugin like goodhertz canopener
11:53 the downfall of most headphone mixes
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Пікірлер: 447

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

open.spotify.com/episode/5NJPhH4DGZncXfrhlG3DI5?si=cBL2swMWROWCrnNDxMRkHA Link to Emrah's podcast episode 🙌

@paszTube Жыл бұрын

The link in the description is dead!

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Just checked it. Works fine 🤷‍♂️

@paszTube Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Here too, weird! Glad all is well.

@TopTierAudio Жыл бұрын

Are you only making the show available on Spotify?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

No on various platforms

@shubertmusic 28 күн бұрын

this video has demystified so many things for me on this topic in a way I've never found from any other video. Really appreciate the content

@PaulThird 28 күн бұрын

🤓🤓

@ytbeatsmusicproductionetc.6229 Жыл бұрын

Paul, thank you exactly what i needed. These Videos have such a huge value I am even writing the knowledge down and trying to apply the techniques. Its like free music school here, I love it.🤝

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤜🤛

@ronnielad1928 Жыл бұрын

Love that you got a pro mixing right now involved for this,,, big up my dude 🤘🤘

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@tisbonus Жыл бұрын

You most definitely know what you're talking about. I've been mixing on headphones for a few years. The bottleneck is definitely DAC's and headphones. I've learned this the hard way. Keep doing what you're doing brutha! Really like seeing what you're doing with the studio and getting set up.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@rhalfik 10 ай бұрын

DACs don't matter. It's all in the headphones. DACs have 100% inaudible distortion. The only shortcomings of audio interfaces is lack of power, because these audiophile headphones are insensitive.

@camstanley Жыл бұрын

Love the info here and also your personality too, you make these geeky topics very interesting! Earned a sub

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤜🤛

@ClarityJustin Жыл бұрын

Just listened to your podcast with Emrah Celik and you guys are providing an absolute wealth of knowledge!! Thanks for pointing me into the right direction 🙏

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤜🤛

@ClarityJustin Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Hey Paul, I have decided to invest in a pair of ananda nano, is it alright if I email you and could you share the harman curve with me?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

@ClarityJustin Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Thanks! :)

@ClarityJustin Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird I've sent you an email. Cheers.

@mageprometheus Жыл бұрын

Thanks Paul. I will check that out.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@elonthebass6870 Жыл бұрын

Podcast is amazing. Thanks!

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@chrisibbetson Жыл бұрын

Thanks Paul, great info!

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@DazzleRebel Жыл бұрын

I've been making some of my best mixes lately on just a cheap pair of Sennheiser hd206 headphones. I also use some even cheaper in-earphones just as my 2nd check. I started mixing predominately on headphones on the first warm, sunny day of the year. I didn't want to be couped up in the attic, so started mixing a track outside. Turned out to be my best mix to date. All of my mixes since have been translating so much better. I guess its horses for courses. It's whatever works for you.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

It is whatever works for you. This video is more for those who are complaining that when they mix on headphones it doesn't translate compared to speakers bla bla gives them certain reasons as to why it's not working

@Electricowlworks Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video Paul! I think you're pretty spot on with your comments. Having inadequate headphone amplification will make even the best headphones sound like rubbish. My UA Apollo Solo headphone amp is not suitable for mixing. The Focusrite Clarett 8PreX headphones amp works well, and I really like the Drawmer MC3.1 monitor controller headphone amps that we have. I've also tried the Rupert Neve Designs RNHP Headphone Amplifier and it is amazing! I switched to the Ollo Audio S4X headphones in autumn 2021 and they have been spectacular! Quite the upgrade from my old Sony MD-7506 headphones used with ReferenceID/Sonarworks. The Ollo's are detailed, not hyped in any of the frequency bands, affordable, and provided me with a portable baseline referencing solution that I can use whenever I'm working in other studios or traveling. They are so good that I no longer need EQ correction when using them. That said, I do use a cross-feed plugin at times while mixing from AirWindows called Monitoring3. I'm not a fan of room simulation plugins, so a clean cross-feed works better for me. It is possible to create great mixes with headphones once you've trained your brain to work in that environment. Give it some time, listen to music that you know well, and your brain will acclimate to the environment! Thanks so much and cheers from South Wales, NY, USA! -chaz

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@BurningBushPedagogy 7 ай бұрын

can you go more into details, so w can try what you saying in your comments, too many things to remember everything you said, but seems interesting, i love the idea od mxing whereever even without a computer, Like an AKAI MPC or anyother hardware music making gearm that has the eq comps, etc and I would love to see exactly your ways and what gearm real details, you just talked generaly and its cool, but if you really care then write something with exact details, maybe a little phamplet to download, even ifs you dont its a big maybe it turns out great for others, its about sharing that is why my man made this video, and if a comment makes sense we could also try that,

@Studio22mix 10 ай бұрын

My studio is down for some major upgrades so had some time to dive into this topic. Temporary mixing in the box, which I don’t like 😢 But it got me into a headphone amp, canopener and hifiman headphones. I definitely will use my headphone setup more often. Great video, ear opener 😊❤

@PaulThird 10 ай бұрын

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@sonicart1808 Жыл бұрын

I loved how every time you put the headphones down there was a really low boomy ring sound.....great content as always Paul thanks sir 👍

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

I didn't. I had to listen to it over and over during the edit haha I was actually pretty annoyed after the recording 🤣

@sonicart1808 Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird 😂😂Haha I would have been exactly the same if I had to keep listening to it! To us, these things are super magnified of course but too many others are inconspicuous....

@Super-id7bq Жыл бұрын

Love my Sundaras. Actually did away with my headphone amp the other day and now I go straight out of my SSL2 as it's cleaner / more detailed. I noticed my headphone amp (which was a decent amp) was squaring off sine waves if I played a loud sub and I couldn't believe I hadn't noticed sooner. I guess maybe it was too much gain for the 30ohm headset but going straight out of my SSL2, they are still super loud and noticeably more detailed. I also use Realphones as it's got the benefit of being standalone (so I can listen to Spotify or whatever for reference) as well as VST. I don't have the speaker emulation on permanently but I go between having it on and off as well as switching profiles from time to time. My mixes have be

@starkid9736 Жыл бұрын

1 year ago i startet my headphone journey. game changer i barely use my speakers anymore sundaras are crazy good for sure i also use stellias and aryas and my loved 660s

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@SamHocking Жыл бұрын

Airwindows Monitoring is a nice tool for mixing on headphones. Main thing is to monitor with some crosstalk that sounds more like stereo speakers. You could also monitor through a 2.0 > binaural room emulation like APL Virtuoso which also builds the cross talk. Meier's Crosstak VST is really nice too. Very minimal DSP.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@davidchurch8828 Жыл бұрын

Hay Paul this is a fabulous video. Really answered a lot of questions for me about using headphones for mixing and how to go about it the right way. Your last name might be Third, but to us you're definitely FIRST!

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@SimonSalloway1 Жыл бұрын

Great summary Paul, I watch you all the time and really enjoy your more down to earth and real content. As a fellow (with a another proper real job) novice who's done some successful tracks, I've always struggled with small home studio on a budget and headphones. Amazon Prime day was perfect timing and I've just snapped up a pair of Hifiman Sundara at half price - no brainer to see if they're better than my old Beyerdynamic DT880's! Keep up the good work!

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@SimonSalloway1 Жыл бұрын

Any chance of those EQ correction pre-sets for the Sundara's? ;-)

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

It's on the video. If you pause it you'll see Amir's harman curve recommendation as well as the q's, freq, gain etc

@SimonSalloway1 Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Just got my first Planar's the Sundara's you recommended. They sound great, better than my old DT880's. I've used Amir from ASR's EQ. Also got some Kali LP6's in my small home studio, the Sundara's really give me the missing sub-base, detail & clarity I've been missing! Like you in not a fan of the mighty SW, I tried their correction on the Sundara's which turned them into a plastic sounding cotton wool ball! I use MathAudio Headphone EQ with the ASR EQ, it also has a simple crossfeed built in, so neat and tidy. MathAudio also do a very good Room EQ which there is a very detailed thread on ASR on all the major DRC's and MathAudio come out nearly on top and is very cheap too.

@johnvender Жыл бұрын

I work almost exclusively on headphones and have no ambitions of doing audio production professionally but I like the results from my work to be as good as I can get them using relatively low end gear. My DAW is Logic, my interface is Scarlett Solo and my headphones are Shure SRH440. The software I use to get a better translation to speakers is SoundID Reference and Goodhertz CanOpener Studio 3. I'm very pleased with how my mixes are translating to speakers and also phones, televisions, laptops and tablets and glad you confirmed CanOpener was a good investment.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@Hassan_Omer Жыл бұрын

I mix on headphones now, Ollo S4x, upgrading to a good AD/DA converter is on my list. When I heard the difference between an Apollo and Focusrite sound, that was enough for me to understand how much a AD/DA converter can do atleast between these two kind of interfaces the difference was quite audible.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@jesperborgstrm3385 Жыл бұрын

Do You use correction software? Mine doesnt translate without sonarworks (and crosstalk plug-in as Well)

@dazza1000 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video Paul. : ) I was using Realphones & Can Opener until I heard Andrew Scheps say he does lots of mixing on headphones and doesn't use any correction software. I turned them off after that and started getting better mixes. I guess you have to try these things out for yourself. Darren (Wales, UK)

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@SkeadFerdinandMusic Жыл бұрын

Also got the new Slate VSX mixing earphone system about a month ago. Still need to get use to that sound but my mixes are definitely better. Also get great mixes with my AKG k701. Main monitors Munro Sonic Eggs and SSL2 interface with great headphone amp.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@troeteimarsch Жыл бұрын

Yep. ToneBooster's Morphit + K712pro user here. Using EqualizerAPO under windows to alway listen through these headphones corrected. Using CanOpener in my daw. Then Take the mix to my living room and tweak it to my hi-fi listening space.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@sagarchawla8145 3 ай бұрын

I listen to this video on my crusher evo (skullcandy) and every time you put down you headphones on the desk, the boom of it was felt till here in India !

@PaulThird 3 ай бұрын

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@jloiben12 Жыл бұрын

(1) What I find most important with headphones is making sure I can get… “variety.” I use Soundworks not so much to give me a flat response but for the different frequency responses I can get from it. I use CLA Nx to check with a more “speaker-like” environment. To get things like crosstalk. (2) I 100% agree with the headphone amps. Get a good one. It doesn’t have to take a lot of money. Cranborne Audio has a great value headphone amp that just isn’t expensive.

@andivax Жыл бұрын

With Verum 1 you don't need crossfeed plugin. Just simple correction curve to make it close to Harman curve.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

They also recieved a good review from audio science review 🤓

@Herfinnur Жыл бұрын

I've been using Austrian Audio Hi-X65's and it's brought my mixing up several levels from where it was. My next time investment is going to be L-Acoustics' L-ISA software and a head tracker. High level FOH engineers swear by this, and since the software is free and a supported head tracker can be had for about 70€, I can't see myself regretting it. The demos of it sound incredibly natural, and the included reverb algorithms are the dog's bollocks!

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@digitalmarketinghumans Жыл бұрын

My favorite, Slate VSX. I was skeptical at first and bought them and ended up liking them so much, I"ll probably just mix on them from now on with a little bit of monitor through my KRK's. It translates REALLY well on so many people's speakers, just as long as you have a good reference track. I never referenced mine but I did a track with them on my KZfaq channel under Hybrid Clone with and without VSX. The VSX one sound better because frequencies weren't fighting each other as much. There's a bit more space now. Controlled low end. Drums sound more audible. I only worked on it a little bit. It has only been a week with VSX, I think my next songs/mixes will sound a bit better in time.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@Barncore Жыл бұрын

I've seen you post this sorta message about VSX on 3 separate videos now haha. You're a busy boi aren'tcha

@niklaskarlsson3206 Жыл бұрын

Amazing knowledge, this video led me to listen to the podcast with the amazing Emrah Celik who happens to live in the neighbouring town to me. Learned about correction and the Harman curve. Downloaded equalizer APO and got presets for my headphones (HD 650's) and one for a harman curve. Did a quick balance of a track im working on....its the best sounding thing ive done in 8 years. Please check the podcast out. Amazing work as always Paul!

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@BurningBushPedagogy 6 ай бұрын

Thanks a lot I listened to the podcast, with Celilk they are, 1 Use good headphones, planar magnetic open back, if possible. 2, Fix you'd headphones tuning, to follow the Harman target curve. 3, Find a way, to hear both left and right in both ear to mimmick listening to speakers in a physical room. Use Canopen if you using your headphones raw, ot just use platforms with all harman target curve and Cross feed done,. 4, Make sure your low end is clean and tight, if you use a good pair of headphones with harman target, everything in the low frequency should be clear enough to lead you to make good mix with great and pure low end, or use special oftware to check low end independently till you can hear the notes and whatever in your low, things should not be jammed together or smear they should be all distinct, this is how you know you got a good low end, the rest of the frequency is piece of cake because you are hearing well enough to make the right EQ and compression descision, reverb etc. and your mix should translate even in cars, night club etc. Wow thanks I LEARNT A WHOLE LOT

@kevinstransky93 6 ай бұрын

Brother this is golden, thank you for saving me research on what actually works and giving details that nobody else seems to give. It becomes overwhelming navigating products and forums that aren't all necessarily pointed at translation. Really bro, you saved me massive headache and pointed me in the right direction, much appreciated. I do have two questions though; you mentioned Slate VSX is very well suited for imaging and translation so would you recommend someone that hasn't invested much into headphones bypassing harman calibration, DAC research, and imaging software to buy those instead? Also do you have any stereo imaging plugin recommendations? Thanks!

@PaulThird 6 ай бұрын

You still need a good dac amp with slate vsx as its only headphones and software. I use dSONIQ realphones when it comes to room simulation

@PAPABOOMBANG Жыл бұрын

I've watched a lot of videos on headphones and mixing...but this is the absolute best out there + the podcast..just wow! Could you possibly share the EQ curve for the Hifiman Sundara pls here...which EQ are you using? will the Fabfilter Pro Q or Sonarworks (?) also work for this.., for example. Thank you much for your work man!

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

I was using realphones with the sundaras but if you go on audio science review you'll get Amir's or even the part of the video showing it. You can pause it and you'll see the reccomended hifiman sundara eq along with freqs, q, gain etc But if you are copying it dont use proq3 as it has a different q behaviour to other digital eq's. A Q of 1 in proq3 isn't the same as a Q of 1 in studio ones stock eq

@PAPABOOMBANG Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Aha ok, I missed it in the video. i have to find out which EQ this is :D Thank you man, much appreciated!!

@erkamau9629 Жыл бұрын

Great analysis! The most difficult step for me is how to calibrate the hrtf settings of Sienna, could you do a review about it ? I use monoprice monolith M1070 with Vrmbox as amp and Sienna for correction and crossfeed and rooms emulations...

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

I don't use sienna so I'm of no help

@braunsonlalonde3546 Жыл бұрын

Awesome and informative as always! Noob question when connecting a dac like the dx7 pro, am I better to plug it directly into my laptop or to one of the outputs on my audio interface? Is there an audible difference connection wise since theres a dac running into another dac (on interface option).

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

No audible difference. I connect dx7 pro+ to apollo x6 via spidf and there is no difference when compared to listening via usb

@moritzc8999 9 ай бұрын

Hey Paul, thanks a lot for the quality content! Your videos have been a huge help for me getting into mixing with headphones. I have still have one question: I currently own some Hifiman Sundaras and the Audient ID44 MKII, which has a quite good DAC in my opinion (THD+N:

@PaulThird 9 ай бұрын

I personally mix through a topping dx7 pro+ as my amp and DAC so I would say a seperate DAC AMP but if you like that id44 ii dac then l30ii will be all you need

@deplaag.techno 25 күн бұрын

I wanna thank you for existing! The Herman curve helped me a lot! The only thing is I make music on the DT 1770 PRO and honestly for me it is fine, I don’t need high high quality mixes for my genre as a Industrial techno producer I’m saving money for the RME en the hifiman headphone but for now I’m just doing my thing, what is your opinion

@PaulThird 25 күн бұрын

If you want to get better results then upgrade wherever you can in your monitoring. Id say at the moment I'd personally upgrade the headphones first

@deplaag.techno 25 күн бұрын

@@PaulThird what do you think of the apollo solo / arrow?

@deplaag.techno 25 күн бұрын

@@PaulThird I mixed for over 6 years on the beyerdynamic 770 pro 250 and my master being played world wide in clubs and festivals I really know this head phones so what is the reason to go for a Hifi headphone?

@deplaag.techno 25 күн бұрын

I upgrade to the 1770 pro 250 ohm and for me I hear a lot more than the 770 but at the same time there are similar. I understand that you are mixing on those and got your professional advies, but is is not just a human taste and what works best for each other?

@PaulThird 25 күн бұрын

There's no such thing as hifi and studio headphone. Odd marketing terms as audeze and hifiman are both planar magnetic. Both need tuned to harman as do beyers. All I can tell you is that if you want to hear more detail and accurately hear low end without colouration then the hifimans are the way to go. All headphones have a purpose but I have a very strange relationship with beyers where I've had translation issues and I've had others face the same problem. Honestly the most arguments I get online are from beyer users. On the podcast we've found that the majority of comments that completely disagree with the common consensus are beyer user's. Myself and others have seen a pattern over the years where beyers have their own sound which mostly translate to beyers. Beyers are coloured in the low end. You need to go up the price bracket to get dynamics that are really clean where planar magnetic headphones are a different design and don't suffer from the same colouration, as well as not being affected by impedance. You can put a planar through any impedance hp amp and it'll tonally remain the same, where dynamics are directly impacted from impedance. I don't know why but the most resistance I get is from beyer users haha you can still keep them as a second reference but if you get a pair of ananada nanos you'll hear what you are missing, especially in the low end Ed Thorne has closed bank audeze and switched to Ananda nano after hearing them

@tedepstein4940 8 ай бұрын

Hi Paul, thanks for the excellent podcast and videos. I just listened through this one, the podcast interview with Emrah, and a few related videos. I have a few questions for you and Emrah (if he's available to respond to these): 1. What DAW plugins and/or outboard processors do you use to EQ for the Harman Target Curve? 2. How do you switch between corrective EQ profiles for different headphones and listening configurations? 3. You recommend the Topping L30 II, which sells for $150 USD, and the DX7 Pro+ at $700 USD. Wondering if there's anything you'd recommend in between those two price points that combines a high-quality headphone amp with a DAC would be a meaningful upgrade from a typical home studio interface? For reference, I have a Focusrite 2i2, 3rd generation, which is supposed to have a decent DAC built-in. So, on my limited budget, I'm inclined to buy the L30 II headphone amp and save the DAC upgrade for later. But I wonder how much I'm missing, and if there's something in the $200-400 range that would close some of the gap between the 2i2 DAC + L30 II amp combination and the DX7 Pro+? 4. Wondering if Emrah uses Harman Curve EQ correction on his Slate VSX headphones, or relies on the VSX software without any further corrections? 5. You and Emrah talk about planar magnetic headphones, in particular the importance of linear response in the low end. But you also use conventional headphones with EQ correction. Is there any particular approach to switching between these monitoring setups in the mixing and mastering workflow? Is there a method to this, or do you just switch when you feel it's time to get a different perspective, assess translation, etc.? Thanks, Ted

@PaulThird 8 ай бұрын

Harman eq correction you can use any linear eq (you just need to ensure the qfactor matches that of auto eq or whatever you are using to get your harman eq correction) For different headphones we have different curves so we would have 2 or 3 instances of eq for the headphones we want to reference (mines are HE1000SE & Ananda Nano) and I'll have an instance of realphones for the ollo S5X. Always have canopener at the end but bypassed when using realphones with Ollo. Id say buy the topping dx3 pro+ for that budget. That would cover you for DAC and amp. Emrah uses slate vsx on its own, no eq or crosstalk. Me and emrah use different headphones for different things. I use ananda nano to assess transients, punch and feel but use HE1000SE to assess panning and soundstage. Then the ollos are for room simulation so I can get some speaker reference (emrah uses slate vsx for this) The more references you have that give you different perspectives the better as essentially if your mix is translating to all those different systems you know your mix is in a good place translation wise.

@tedepstein4940 8 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird, thanks for the insights and the prompt reply. I had a look at the Topping DX3 Pro+, but the amp specs (output power and THD in particular) don't match the L30 II. For now, I'll go with the L30 II as a single-purpose headphone amp, and wait for an opportunity to experiment with DACs to see how much difference it makes in my case.

@PaulThird 8 ай бұрын

Tbh l30ii is just ridiculous so not much will compete with it. The dx3 dac is very good and the amp will give you all the power you need with distortion levels you will never hear However if you want the absolute best of both worlds then you can buy the L30ii and save for a standalone dac but I just find that the gains you get aren't that perceivable. There are people still arguing that my dx7 pro+ compared to dx3 pro+ is just high specs for the sake of high specs

@AlexNiedt Жыл бұрын

Slate VSX has truly changed things for me, especially version 4.0

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

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@Sandvinch Жыл бұрын

This is a really well-thought-out video! I have two questions. 1. Do I get the Hifiman Sundara 2018 version or the 2020 version? 2. What do you think of the Topping E50? Will that do the job just fine or can I still do good work with the DX3 Pro+ that I have? Thank you.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

1. 2020 2. Stick with dx3 pro+

@Sandvinch Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Thank you! 🙏

@Unknown-yz6md 10 ай бұрын

Very informative video Paul! I wanted to ask something, can we use both an audio interface and a DAC together? Like can we use the audio interface while mixing with analog for example, while monitoring through the DAC? I only have and 14mk2 so I'm asking should I invest in both or like a RME interface basically.

@PaulThird 10 ай бұрын

You can use a dac and interface together as long as they both have optical spdif or coaxial spidf (interface spdif out/ dac spdif in). You want spdif as you are looking for the digital signal to pass through the interface without touching the converters. If you have to use the line outs then better off with a headphone amp connected to the interface as apposed to DAC.

@Unknown-yz6md 10 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird Thanks for the quick response man! Love the channel 🤟

@ramspencer5492 Жыл бұрын

Well the monitor companies have been working out harmon curve style curves for years. I was surprised back when you were recommending a totally flat curve. Working out a new headphone setup right now. They're in the mail. It's also important to keep referencing how the mix translates with the Crosstalk turned off! Because honestly, sooooo many people are just listening to music on earbuds these days.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤓🤓

@michaeljlouttit 6 ай бұрын

Hey Paul, thanks for the thorough explanation. Got a lot out of the podcast episode too. I was just wondering if you or Emrah had any thoughts on the Hifiman HE400SE for mixing/production? Amir also rated them fairly well on ASR, and it seems like they would correct to Harman relatively easily. Can you see any reason why they wouldn't translate? They're about half the price of the Sundaras.

@PaulThird 6 ай бұрын

I've not tried them but I can't see why they wouldn't fit the purpose. In comparison to sundara, online I have read people saying that sundara is more detailed (possibly because it's slightly more accurate in the mids and highs) with a slightly wider sound stage which tbh I'm gonna go out on a limb and agree with as I prefer Sundara to Audeze LCD-X. There's nothing that compares with Sundara in its price range, He400se is plastic but looks to be arguably one of the best in its £100-150 price range.

@dickjonesify Жыл бұрын

I just started the video so I have no idea what you're going to say BUT oh man, I got Slate VSX headphones and they're so amazing. There are no surprises once you get your mix where you want it. The translation is perfect. Incredible system. You should try them if you haven't.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤓🤓

@drcross Ай бұрын

Man, why haven't I seen this video much earlier... I now have DT700X, Audio Technica MX50, DT990, Sennheiser 650, DT880... I bought Sonarworks in the past... but the results were pretty well.sh1t.. Then I got Realphones it works better, but I always found the EQ curve very weird. I don't know which headphones I should use now. The DT990 sound really good on my A20 Headphone AMP, with the Harmann curve... but my interface is pretty shit Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 3rd Gen.. should I sell everything now and start all over again :D.. I hated to mix on Flat Headphones because I always tried to compensate for the lack of bass... so my mixes were all bass-loaded. I think I'll soon be able to finally understand what's important thanks to your help...

@PaulThird Ай бұрын

Personally yes, I'd sell all and start over

@Barncore Жыл бұрын

Paul you've sent me down quite the rabbit hole! Ever since seeing this vid a week ago i've listened to the podcast, trawled through hundreds of comments in gear threads, watched over a dozen videos, and i even saw Emrah in a facebook group i'm in and asked him a bunch of specific questions about the Nano's vs VSX over the course of a few days. So, thanks i guess! It's all very interesting and i believe headphones is the right path for me. I'm totally stuck on whether to go for the Nano's or go down the VSX direction. Both would be great options. Any thoughts on VSX vs Nano?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Nanos for me personally but in ideal world both haha

@fragmentq 8 ай бұрын

Hi Paul, could you elaborate? I'm in doubt myself between buying the Ananda nano's or the Slate VSX (as they are about roughly the same price) but can't seem to find enough specific information to push me in either direction.... (Purpose would be production/mixing electronic music) Thanks in advance!@@PaulThird

@PaulThird 8 ай бұрын

For you I'd say slate vsx as it means you don't have to find a harman curve and buy crosstalk & room sim plugs. The ananda nanos on their own won't do you much good till you combine it with everything else. The more I get into headphones the more I've realised that you need at least 3 pairs. One for slam and close up detail, one for soundstage and another for room simulation. There isn't one headphone thats best suited to them all

@fragmentq 8 ай бұрын

Hi, thanks for your response! Does your answer stay the same if I say that I forgot to mention I already own the Realphones plugin? So it would be combining that with the ananda nano or the Slate VSX in itself... @@PaulThird

@PaulThird 8 ай бұрын

Realphones doesn't have an ananda nano preset. I'm not sure if it even has an ananda preset. I've found that with stuff like realphones, how the headphone is built to perform really does have an impact on how effective stuff like realphones is. That's why I'm solely using the ollo S5X with realphones

@InFiNiGhTe Жыл бұрын

Thanks for reminding me. While I love my DT900 Pro X as they sound regardless of the harsh treble, SoundID for headphones in that case is just plain trash to listen to because it kills the air no matter how I set the custom curves. Created Harman curve in Kirchhoff EQ and it sounds perfect in translation .. I'd wish I had TotalMixFX for this, sadly not with a hdspe RayDat. And CuemixFX on my ol' Motu 896mk3 isn't exactly helpful in comparison.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤓🤓

@BurningBushPedagogy 7 ай бұрын

This topic is worthy making many videos about, now my huge questions is, Verum 1 is said to better than Sundara, and am turned off by what I heard Igor, but I want gppd for mixing heaphones, been looking for a monh now, and still dont know which, where can I find the info about this. sundara is also said to have less than enough bass or low end, and low end is critical to mixing, even vocals have some low end so you dont under do or over do how you eq whatever you are hearing, if the cans have less than enough bass, so maybe you can research this further and share with the world , no one is taking this topic serious or just maybe KZfaq is not showing the right videos about is the perfect headphone for around 300 to 400 dollars. Thanks

@PaulThird 7 ай бұрын

That's why you EQ sundara. Emrah mixed professionally on sundaras for years eq'd to harman. I mixed for 2 years using them. When eq'd I'd say sundara are one of the best for mixing in it's price range

@exileisland2675 Жыл бұрын

I heard Getter of all people say monitors are a hassle with all the acoustic problems so I got a pair of open back sennhiesers and still rock my $40 logitechs from Walmart.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤓🤓

@PAPABOOMBANG Жыл бұрын

How do you clock the Topping DX 7 Pro from the Apollo x6? thx, great video as always👌

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

I connect via coaxial spdif because the x6 doesn't have optical spdif. Select spdif as main output in daw. Tbh i don't do anything else.

@PAPABOOMBANG Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird thank you very much sir🫡

@sagarchawla8145 3 ай бұрын

Hey Paul, I have recently bought the DT1990 and use them with analytical pads paired with the FiiO k7 dac amp, that samples upto 384khz @32 bit depth. I have been getting phenomenal results with this setup. The details are so distinct that I was sitting in front of my desk for about 6-8 hours on a stretch cuz generally I take a break every 2 hours when I produce or mix (especially). My question to you is, do I really need the upgrade to a high end planar magnetic or this will do me good? Cuz I already have a mix that is translating almost 85-90% to where I want it to go. Some thoughts ?

@QFXmusic Жыл бұрын

Nice Video paul :) Use real tones and can opener with my HEDD headphones.. But for Binaural work use my OLLO S5X which are the muts nuts for Spatial Audio

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤓🤓

@vincecrow4512 Жыл бұрын

Has anybody here compared the Audeze MM-500’s to their favorite Hifiman headphones? I bought the MM-500’s a few months ago and have not been entirely pleased with them. I know they’re not supposed to sound 100% good, but they sound really boxy and overly mid rangey to my ears. They have good low end extension down to 5hz, but the amplitude of the low end is very low, and I have to boost it up a lot to be able to even hear the sub bass in a hip hop or EDM track.

@flamersss Жыл бұрын

Do you think Senheisser HD 560s have a harman curve eq ? and do we mix with the EQ & Good hertz Can openers on the master ? like mixing through it ?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

I dont think any do being honest. Most headphones have a "hifi curve" as default And yes mix through the eq and canopener which live on the mix bus or listen bus in my setup as I use studio one

@franlarsen80 Жыл бұрын

Very helpful vid and podcast. I checked out Realphones and it is not clear which options give the Harman curve. There is the selection of headphone model for correction, and then various environments. It it all applying the Harman curve, or only with certain rooms?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

As I said in the video the correction (if I'm right) is based on anachoic chamber so the room simulation can work more accurately. The speaker simulations are all based around harman but correction on its own is pretty useless without the room simulation. Realphones is a one stop shop where its setup for you to use the rooms

@franlarsen80 Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Thanks P^3

@transonicregime6573 Жыл бұрын

Hey Paul, Thanks for this video! I wonder, if you have time, what do you think of 250ohm DT-770 with an SSL12 interface? I was told these were both good but after watching this video I am worried I have wasted my money... what do you think?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Personally I wouldn't use that setup as the beyers are historically more for tracking, not mixing, thus the cheap price, and tbh the SSL interfaces don't measure that great compared to standalone headphone amps and DAC's like topping That's not to say you couldnt make it work but I can't say I'd use or reccomend that setup for professional headphone mixing personally

@transonicregime6573 Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Finding good information you can trust is so much of the battle in this industry. You ask 10 engineers what to do and you will get 10 different answers. (except the ubiquitous and not helpful "if it sounds good it is good" that I keep hearing.) Objective truths are nearly impossible to discern it seems. Thanks for taking the time to respond, it means a lot to me.

@Studio22mix 10 ай бұрын

@@transonicregime6573 The SSL, the Motu M2 and the Audient ID4 are known to have decent headphone amps, most interfaces lack on the headphone amp.

@subterraneanpimpernel9455 Жыл бұрын

I use dt100s and krk ks8400 in the studio and I check mixes on beats.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤓🤓

@sparella Жыл бұрын

I really like the KRK 8400 for tracking: comfortable, one cable, in line attenuator. But the drivers' channel imbalance is too pronounced to mix with on my set. Plus I like a more neutral tone for mixing and KRK have never been accused of that!

@andyparker5331 Жыл бұрын

Great Video. I have a question I hope you can answer. When mixing on headphones would I use the SoundID Reference Plugin to flatten target and then EQ to Harman curve? Or is it Sound ID Reference OR Harman Curve but not both? Thanks so much.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

No sonarworks. Just harman eq

@andyparker5331 Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird thank you

@guerillabeatz8517 Жыл бұрын

Just in time while looking to buy a new headphone pair n dac to level up my mixing game 👍 ..im not sure if i can afford Sundara but looking to buy Hifiman HE400se along with Topping DX1 , am i making the right choice? ? i usually mix with DT770 Pro + DearVR Monitor set to Room B.. how will it sound?? is it gonna be night n day?😀 thanks 🙏

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

If you really want to level up your mixing game, my advice is save up your money and get the best setup you can afford. Your monitoring setup should be the thing you invest the most in. It's your bottle neck, more important than ANY plugin or piece of hardware. . Honestly If I were you I would go for the sundara and upgrade the dx1 to something like dx3 pro+. You are only talking like an extra £200 all in or whatever. If you REALLY want the best then get a topping dx7 pro+ but if your budget can't be stretched that far then dx3 pro+ will give you everything you require I use dx1 for my portable setup and trust me it's the best for the price all day long BUT it's still nowhere near the quality of a dx7 pro+. The dx1 is like having having an Audient DAC with a good quality headphone amp. I use it for pre mixing when I'm away from the studio but I can't fully trust it to finish a record. It can get me like 75% of the way there but I always end up tweaking here and there and making adjustments on my dx7 pro+

@PsycleDSR 11 ай бұрын

@PaulThird, I actually just recently picked up a pair of Hifiman Ananda Nanos. Sound super nice and seem like they addressed a lot of the criticism leveled against the original Anandas, but I was wondering if you have been using an EQ curve with your pair since you have had them for awhile? Anything that Toneboosters Morphit or Fabfilter Q3 could accommodate?

@PaulThird 11 ай бұрын

Yeah I use a proq3 preset emrah made

@PsycleDSR 11 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird Awesome! Is that something that you could share? Either as an actual preset file or even just the basic Freq/Shape/Q/Gain settings?

@Winter-CIG Жыл бұрын

A couple questions from the podcast and this vid mate: 1. Could you do a followup video expaining how you implement the Harman target as well as sharing link for the Sundara Harman curve you guys mentioned in the description? 2. If I want to have crossfeed in my headphones without room or speaker emulation, would you recomend using cannopener over realphones (with the room and speaker emulation disabled)? Just wondering if you think I would get better results. Thanks mate!!

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

1. The sundara eq is in the video. If you pause it during the audio science review bit you'll see it. Or alternatively go on Amir's sundara review on audio science review 2. Realphones eq calibration is only to be used with the rooms simulations. You can use it solo but it's pointless as the eq calibrations are based on an anachoic chamber so the room simulation is more effective. Without those specific rooms it doesn't really make any sense. An actual harman eq correction in combination with canopener is what i would advise. If you are using realphones. Use everything in the plugin and nothing else

@Winter-CIG Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Perfect, cheers. I'll grab CanOpener then. On the eq, my question was more how is this implemented. It probably seems like a silly question as you're familiar with the process already but as someone who never heard of Harman curve's 'til watching this vid I'm not sure how it's actually applied. Is it as simple as taking any EQ plugin and matching the curve that is in that image then slapping it onto the end of your master bus? Thanks again.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Yes. But canopener goes after. You have to ensure that if you are copying Amir's not to use pro q3 cause of the q difference. Most stock eq's should be suffice And remember to disable them on export. It's very easy to forget but you never want to send a client that

@Winter-CIG 11 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird Wicked cheers mate. Definitely gonna check this out. Thanks for all the help.

@bugeyedmudafuka2 10 ай бұрын

Very interesting. The DX7 pro is a DAC and headphone amp. Is the DAC on it better than a higher end interface like a RME fireface etc? Also, when using it, does it come up as the audio device in a DAW and allow you to change buffer size? Or does it need to be used alongside something like ASIO4all for example? Cheers

@PaulThird 10 ай бұрын

Specs wise as a DAC it's technically better on paper than a fireface. It can be used as an audio device in daw without ASIO. You can change buffer size but it auto detects so when im listening at 192khz in Spotify and then open up my 48khz studio one session it automatically changes sample rate. You can also change anti aliasing filters as well. Even does super high quality Bluetooth as well.

@bugeyedmudafuka2 10 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird Interesting. Just deciding whether a mid level interface and a DAC is the way to go, or just a whole interface upgrade.

@jamiec1ify Жыл бұрын

Acustica audio Sienna is amazing. Surprised this was not mentioned.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Cause I don't like it

@michaelguardenti2253 Жыл бұрын

it sucks !

@AlexLapugean 5 ай бұрын

Hi Paul, few short questions: 1. How did you EQ your Ananda Nanos? From what I've seen they are not tested by Emrah, they are also not available in either Sonnarworks or Realphones. 2. How much of an improvement is a headphone amp over an UA Apollo Twin MKII amp? From what I've read, it is not as important for low impedance headphones. 3. You seemed to keep the Ananda Nanos for quite a short time switching for the HE100se. Are they significantly better, to justify almost double the price? Thank you very much!

@PaulThird 5 ай бұрын

1. Emrah found a measurement somewhere and made a custom eq which he sent to me 2. Big improvement to my ears. Apollo hp amps aren't great. Sound bloated and coloured on planars which even though are low impedance, are not affected by high impedance amps frequency wise, only low ohm dynamics that suffer frequently response wise. So I would say you will hear the same difference with high impedance headphones. Dunno what it is, maybe high THD. Hard to get UA to give any details regarding the hp amps 3. I still use the ananda nanos in every mix. They are my reference for transients and low end. If you want to know if your track is slamming and has the right groove or feel then nanos are best for that. Most detailed cans I've ever heard. I mainly use he1000se for imaging as the nanos are so punch driven that I feel it's harder to evaluate the side information in a mix. So I go between both to get the right balance, and then I would add ollo S5X with realphones in the mix to judge speaker translation and go between the 3 for the best balance. Now I have the kali in-unf I use that for speaker translation

@AlexLapugean 5 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird Thank you for takling your time to answer. Is there any chance you could share the EQ curve/measurements? Also, I understand what you mean with the diference between Ananda Nano and the HE1000se, but say you could not get both, just one, which one would you say it's more important to have?

@PaulThird 5 ай бұрын

The nano proq3 preset is on my patreon. Out the 2 i would pick he1000se as soundstage is more important to me for translation

@AlexLapugean 5 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird Got you. Cheers!!

@musicxtech6680 Жыл бұрын

Paul thanks for this amazing video but i was just curious, u said ,at 8:10, Sonarworks make heaphone completely flat but Sonarworks has their own (Harmann curve) called SR curve (which is their version of Harmann Curve). They claim(on thier website) that they tune the headphones to a target frequnecy that resembles that of a flat speaker in a studio. (exact words were "Headphones calibrated to 'FLAT' frequency response by Sonarworks are frequency response wise matched to flat calibrated in-room studio monitor speaker systems"). Do u by chance know more about this? 😮

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

If you use the additional eq in sonarworks you should be fine

@musicxtech6680 Жыл бұрын

so do u mean that I should use the personal eq (within sonarworks) to make it match more towards the Harmann curve? (by this mean, u trust Harmann Curve more I assume)

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Had a look back into sonarworks and id reccomend to use the speaker curve in the section where you can choose car, bar etc etc Its B&K summin summin. Personally I still reccomend a custom harman curve but if you are using sonarworks I would reccomend using that curve The default curve has nothing to do with speaker response. You can see that by the target curve which is completely flat. That's not harman

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

The B&K 1974 target option is a slightly more rounded version of the negative Tilt EQ curve, emulating the traditional high-frequency roll-off and bass boost found in many home stereo speakers. The X-Curve setting is for mixes targeted for large movie theatre systems, featuring a subtle low-end dip, and a relatively pronounced and steep high-end roll-off starting at about 2 kHz. These are speaker curves. Use your ears. The SR curve is flattening the curve and making the sound neutral.. This is not harman. The B&K is closer to harman. You can see that by the big bass boost and high end roll off. That's similar to what my custom Ananda curve looks like. As I said, sonarworks is physically showing you the target curve and on the GUI and it's even called "flat target". Sonarworks are trying to justify their neutrality approach to calibrating headphones. I know somebody personally who worked for sonarworks and even he said the SR curve doesn't make any sense. I've done tests on the channel and you can hear how the flat neutral calibration doesn't work. It just sounds dull and you are mixing into that dullness which is going to result in an overhyped mix.

@musicxtech6680 Жыл бұрын

Paul thank u for the reply!🎉 so if im not using slate vsx, best option would be to go for the "good" harman curve (as u mention in the video)? by using the values mentioned in audiosciencereview (sundara in this case)?

@j-station Жыл бұрын

How can we determine if our interface has adequate DAC/headphone amp to get good enough performance. For example something like an Apogee Duet

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Specs and your ears. You can measure headphone amps and DAC's but you do really have to buy and try to know if it's really as good as you can get I use audio science review a lot for the specification side

@cryptonios Жыл бұрын

hey paul, have you tried proteus and the plugin extensions from pasttofuturereverbs? interesting stuff

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

What is it just convolution?

@cryptonios Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird i find it better from acustica, neural network and blablabla, the saturation is on another level, ssl,neve,api all sound great, it is worth an investigation, and they are affordable

@supersauceaudio Жыл бұрын

I tried null testing (in pairs) the correction component of these 3 plugins using the same headphone model with a common pink noise source: SoundID Reference (flat and Dolby mode) Realphones (without room) Morphit Do they null? Not so much. I figured they all shift phase differently and was able to get around 15dB peak reduction by playing with the phase (delaying) one of one the pair. So, this raises stuff to think about. Is the correction for a particular model based on measurements that vary a lot between manufacturer, or is there some subjective component to the corrections, or ... ? Paul, have you tried this, or have any insights?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Realphones uses an anachoic chamber correction if Im right so the rooms sims are more accurate. So it's not fully harman or harman measured in an anachoic chamber. Something like that Sound id is straight up 100% correction so it results in a completely flat frequency response (not harman) Morphit I have no experience on They should really all be different. There's HRTF differences and lots of different modelling variences

@JohnFraserFindlay Жыл бұрын

Paul are you switched to the Hifiman ANANDA NANO headphones for good now? I may as well try these first form the sounds of it.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Yeah. Im selling the sundaras this week at some point

@olabassey3142 11 ай бұрын

very charismatic guy

@PaulThird 11 ай бұрын

🤓🤓

@MKunstmann Жыл бұрын

Hellooooo Paul Third. Have your beer on me. 🍺 i got LCDX Audeze. And a Neve Preamp. Heaven! Cheers!

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤜🤛

@marksnetkov 3 ай бұрын

Paul, would I still need a DAC to get good quality low end on a setup of audient id14 mk2 with audeze lcd-x. I was thinking of getting apogee boom to drive such low ohm headphones like audeze lcd-x????

@PaulThird 3 ай бұрын

You need a headphone amp to drive those. Topping l30 mk2. Job done

@RocknRollkat Жыл бұрын

Hello Paul, Simple solution, mix in MONOI like I've been doing since 1961. When your levels are correct, dial in your panorama and you're pretty much DONE ! Bill P.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤓🤓

@dontgooutdoorproductions2574 Жыл бұрын

Theres really loud 10 second long reverb/resonance happening everytime you put your headphones on the desk around 60hz, This is quite ironic that I can only hear this because im using headphones!😎 that aside love the channel keep up the great work!

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Yeah I didn't know until I recorded it. It's cause the mic is on a desk stand and I'm placing the headphones back on the desk. Rookie move

@dontgooutdoorproductions2574 Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird I wouldnt say its your fault 2bh more a problem with the desk, 10 seconds is one hell of a long time! I recommend watching 1 season of blue peter back to back until you come up with a solution for your desk😇 I actually had a desk where the cable managment tray would make an even louder resonance and had to stuff in some rubber pads to stop it.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

It's my fault. I shouldn't be bashing things on a desk that I've got an extendable mic stand clamped to haha

@shamargayle1745 Жыл бұрын

I'm confuse to what eq setting to use because sonar work flatten the eq frequency and the Harman curve shows bass and upper mids boost.. So I order to get a good mix your saying I should use Harman curve which would translate to a good mixing speaker?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Yes that's correct, correcting to harman curve will mostly always result in a heavy bass boost because most headphones are defaulted to have more of a "hifi curve" so everything sounds good through them

@te10percent Жыл бұрын

This is fascinating stuff although I am still confused as to where I find a harman curve for my headphones. Ive searched, listened to the podcast etc. Am I just thinking about this in the wrong way? I have just bought a set of Ollo SX4s . They are pretty flat compared to my last set but this harman curve thing has me baffled. Thanks in advance and for all the good stuff you are doing.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ollo-s5x-headphone-review.46166/ Dunno if that helps as Amir has an eq curve suggestion but if you are really stuck try going on the autoeq website and find your headphones. It'll show you how off the curve is to harman and offer different eq's from different playback systems. You could build an idea of a curve from there as some will be exact to harman, others will be close dependent on the eq variability but in essence you are looking for simple broad eq moves to get your headphones there. You want to look at your harman eq as smoothed and not detailed. That's why Amir will only use like 3 or 4 bands in most cases

@te10percent Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird thank you for this. I cant find specifically for mine but I can get a general overview of the idea and have applied it. The results thus far are very interesting based on my HP curve and the suggested targets from other models. I will keep honing this also. From the podcast I have purchased can opener and already have Isol8 but in what order would you place these on your master buss? At this stage I have Isol8, Harman then Can Opener. Thanks again for your response. Im now looking at the Topping DAC. You are right, why would you spend $$ on descent headphones and not ensure you have the best quality signal flow.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

@@te10percent What order should CanOpener be placed in the processing chain? Ideally, CanOpener would be placed last in the processing chain on the master channel. If you’re not using CanOpener’s built-in dither, the processing order matters less, but CanOpener should still be near the end. If you are using a headphone EQ correction plugin that uses different profiles for the left & right channel, CanOpener should be placed in front of it. (N.B. You might be wondering: Why doesn’t the processing order matter that much? The answer: CanOpener is a linear processor - it’s the same reason why 2 + 3 = 5 and 3 + 2 = 5.) Can I use CanOpener Studio with Sonarworks Reference? If so, in which order should I place them in the chain? Yes, absolutely! CanOpener Studio works well in conjunction with Sonarworks Reference, and they are both linear processors that should not introduce distortion or other unwanted nonlinearities. Although we recommend putting CanOpener last in the monitoring chain, it generally doesn’t matter which order you place them in (except when you use CanOpener’s dither feature, in which case you must place CanOpener last). That said, Sonarworks sometimes offers headphone calibration profiles that have asymmetrical equalization for the left and right channels. In that case, it is preferable to place Sonarworks last (provided you are not using CanOpener’s dithering).

@te10percent Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Thanks for this. After listening to the Harman curve with Can Opener and Realphones (which Ive found can help fine tune that curve) ....Im never going to use Sound ID again.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

I'm a bit confused. why you would canopener with realphones?

@Winter-CIG Жыл бұрын

Listened to the podcast, it's great. Like yourself I use Sundaras and Realphones. Regading the lack of haptics from bass there are a couple interesting bits you might be interested in. First is that the Warm slider in Realphones is actually meant to psychoacousticly simulate vibrations which it does a pretty good job of. Second is I use a Woojer vest. My buddy got me into it as he has a Sub Pack. It absolutely blew my mind, it was like I had a powerful sub right on front of me. Sub Pack spent about two years failing to deliver their new product so in the end I got the Woojer and I'm stoked with it. I just lean it against my chair like a backrest and coupled with Realphones it's so realistic I still to this day keep getting pangs of "oh shit" when I think I've accidentally turned my speakers on full blast at 2am 😂

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤓🤓

@fredtimothy940 Жыл бұрын

This is surprisingly on point. Hifimans with GoodHertz Can Opener. It doesn’t get much better. Electronically Balanced Drive is a possible addition to this convo.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤓🤓

@bekatech7423 11 ай бұрын

Can you do a vedio how to mix in hifiman ananda nano. And how to use eq to the harman curve ?

@PaulThird 11 ай бұрын

Making one tomorrow

@bekatech7423 11 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird ❤️❤️❤️❤️ thanak you broooo ⚡

@toumbas Жыл бұрын

Hi! Would an RME fireface 802 be considered a good DAC and headphone amp? thanks

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Dunno tbh. It's pretty old though. Emrah had an RME UFX and swapped it for the new adi 2 pro FS so I'm gonna guess that it's not as good as modern day tech for him to swap it

@waltertill1388 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the great Video! Hi Paul! i recently bought Hifiman Sundara. i like them a lot - i tried sonarworks - but i did not like the target so much - can you tell, where to get the harma target curve for the sundaras? and which EQ do you use for the harman target curve? - greetings from Austria

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Amir's recommended curve is on this video. You'll see it if you pause it. Just use your stock daw eq. Be careful with proq3 as the q differs from other digital eq's

@waltertill1388 Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Thanks a lot - i will try it. Would you recommend the Anandas more than the Sundaras?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Ananda nano yes. Ananda v1 or v2.. I'd stick with sundara

@waltertill1388 Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird I was was reaching out for Ananda Nano .. and they are unbelievable good ... do you think a harman curve is necessary except bass increase?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Yeah. Gotta be careful with that hi end lift. You'll end up mixing dullish

@InFiNiGhTe Жыл бұрын

Quick question @PaulThird - So I want to buy sundara's as my first pair of planars for the price. Have you ever tried Closed-back Sundara's? And can you recommend them? I always wanted this kind of pair while on the go.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

I've not heard good things about the sundara closed backs tbh. I'd definitely go for the open backs. I and Emrah can personally vouch for them

@InFiNiGhTe Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird was fortunate to find a 2 y/o pair of open backs 2nd hand for a nice fraction. Arriving sometime today but I'll be home from vacation in a few days. Excitaaaaang~

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

🤓🤓

@nedim_guitar Жыл бұрын

I have a pair of Bayerdynamic DT 990, 250 Ohm. I have a Presonus Studio 24C interface, which does have good preamps, but those headphones still sound quieter than others. Would the Topping L30 MKII help? Is it just about volume or is there more to a headphone amp than that? I have a Mackie HM-4 headphone amp with four outputs, and the headphones are also quieter through that one, but I can turn up the volume. So I wonder if I'm missing out on the full potential of the headphones.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

I would say the L30ii is a good investment. Completely clean gain for any headphone, linear like ruler flat and also better transient response.

@clintonpeck Жыл бұрын

I also have the same DT 990, but very recently after watching a KZfaq video "Andrew Scheps & Fab Dupont discuss mixing with headphones" and Andrew discussing that he nearly does all of his mixing using the cheap Sony 7506, I decided to go back to that old pair of Sony 7506 that packed away a couple of years ago and he is right. Every time I finish mixing using the Sony 7506 and play the song on my Studio monitors, mobile, aftershokz headphones, Samsung TV Soundbar, etc, the song sounds great on all of them. It has thrown that dream of some day having a dedicated room for a home studio out of the window.

@bekatech7423 Жыл бұрын

Can i use calibration from dsoniq realphones with canopener . Or just use room sumulation?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

If you are using realphones don't use anything else as every function is specifically calibrated to work with each other

@Musictron Жыл бұрын

I’ve just upgraded my headphone system to the RME ADI-2 DAC, SPL Phonitor 2 Amp and Audeze MM- 500 Headphones. It sounds pretty good and I enhance with sonarworks but the curve they came up with for the MM 500 sound a bit harsh to me but it adds a bit more detail. So you mentioned in the video about the Harmon curve… could this easily be found for my headphones and could it help?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Are you using the extra eq option in sonarworks or just the default correction?

@Musictron Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird I’m using the target that they came up with for the my headphones but after listening to your genius podcast and watching this video the Harman target got me curious lol.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Yeah use the added option in sonarworks. Called BS.. Something something if I recall but I can't say for sure. It's basically a harman style that goes after the correction (which completely flattens the curve, which has nothing to do with speaker response)

@Musictron Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThirdThanks Paul

@musicxtech6680 Жыл бұрын

whats da difference between harman curve & flat curve ? is harman not flat but rather aimed towards pleasure?

@raymondmeers Жыл бұрын

How do I know if my headphone amp has good converts? I use the focusrite scarlett for headphones, but I alos have a Presonus HP4 that I use when I am recording someone other than myself

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Specifications and your ear. Buy an upgrade, A/B it and if not giving you a better result get a refund. All of this can be measured though. That's why Amir is such a gift to the audio community but I reccomend adding your ears to the research

@raymondmeers Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird thanks

@_zetsubou_ 7 ай бұрын

I wish i found your channel sooner 😭

@PaulThird 7 ай бұрын

😅

@fmajor_music 9 ай бұрын

One question Paul, do you connect the audio interface with the headphone amp?

@PaulThird 9 ай бұрын

Line outs of interface to inputs of headphone amp

@fmajor_music 9 ай бұрын

Thanks@@PaulThird

@fmajor_music Жыл бұрын

Hi Paul, what do you think about Topping DX3 Pro+?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Most likely do the job. There was something Amir picked up in his measurements and I can't remember what but pretty sure it's one of toppings best sellers

@fmajor_music Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Thanks

@akagerhard Жыл бұрын

My 2 cents: I mix on speakers, but I always check on headphones. I mix on speakers because of ear-fatigue and lifequality. When mixing on headphones I always had issues with Bass and Reverb (too much verb) - I'm not the only one. And yes, I used reference tracks. On the other hand when I mix on speakers it automatically translates very well, eventhough there are differences. Especially with quieter things - like earcandy to increase the busy-ness of the track before a break or in a hook. Checking on headphones is very important, because most people listen on headphones. So sure, you can mix on headphones, but it isn't for everyone and it's more complicated to get right, because what you need to do to get your speakersetup right is more in the realm of common knowledge. (Positioning, size, room-treatment)

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

However to counter that.. With headphones you can realistically take the setup anywhere and have more consistency but with your room you can't, and you also have room acoustics at play as well so while you can comfortably mix in your room you may fall apart in another room with different speakers. There's many variables at play but no right or wrong answers, simply an end result that client declines or approves. On headphones I'd argue I could mix on any headphone with the right correction as well as mix on speakers. Kinda like audio ambidextrous 😂 I would genuinely say that those who struggle mixing with headohones haven't given enough time to learn the sound or invested in the right setup and lean back to monitors too quick. Just my hunch though, nothing proven

@akagerhard Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Well of course Headphones are more flexible. But as soon as I'm not directly on the road and have time to "set up" I still prefer getting the bigger part done on portable speakers. The iLouds are good enough to mix on. Finishing touches with the headphones - works. Maybe I could get around learning to minimize my headphone issues with time, but since even Andrew Scheps and alike struggle with Reverb for example, I don't think it's as straightforward as you think. For me the main reason remains ear-fatigue and lifequality. I prefer a free head - plus I'm doing better work on speakers. Not telling anybody it's wrong. I'm just saying it's not for everyone. And I'll stand by that point!

@akagerhard Жыл бұрын

(PS: I don't usually "fall apart" in rooms I don't know. And I don't usually mix in the presence of clients in a room that I don't know. Only for IDEAL results you need time and to get to know the room and the speakers. "Falling apart" in a room I don't know never happened, but also would never have been important. I could still use headphones and check for the reverb and bass in the room. It's more important to be able to do a rough while the client is listening to the same thing you're listening to (in the room).)

@LeftyJay 2 ай бұрын

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I don't see the use of apo for mixing if it doesnt work thru your daw...

@PaulThird 2 ай бұрын

That's why you use an eq in the daw

@j-station Жыл бұрын

also, just listened to the pod, how do we EQ our headies to the harman curve?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

I might make a video on it but if Amir has reviewed the phones then he'll normally give you a reccomended eq to harman

@j-station Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThirdSorry, where would we find his review?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Go on audiosciencereview.com and try and find it

@thirdeyetye Жыл бұрын

uad apollo twin any good for headphone amp and dac?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Sounds wierd to me, dunno why. It's definitely not flat. Dac is top grade but amp not so much

@thirdeyetye Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird thanks for the info, gonna shop for a new amp and try it out

@bekatech7423 Жыл бұрын

I have dt 990 pro and i want eq curve to corect them can you help me for this . If dt 990 pro useless for mixing and mastering are you recomended dt vsx ???

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Id personally reccomended planar headphones like sundara over cheaper beyers which are traditionally more for tracking You can get a harman curve for mostly any headphones online. There's autoeq as well which gives you eq corrections for various listening systems

@bugeyedmudafuka2 9 ай бұрын

Are you still using the ananda nano's or have you upgraded to something else?

@PaulThird 9 ай бұрын

Upgraded to HE1000SE

@hanters7746 5 ай бұрын

I have a topping e50 dac and l30 mark 2 headphones amp and ananda nano . Shoud i upgrade to topping dx7 pro plus can i get alot of defferece ?

@PaulThird 5 ай бұрын

Hard to say but id say keep your setup as its gonna give you extremely clean conversion and all the hp amp power anybody will need

@hanters7746 5 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird if can i get extra sounstage or detiled can i sell my setup to a friend and by topping dx7 just i want know how mutch deferent . I see a review in audiosience review and ididnt see so mutch deferent in the musurment when cum ti dac but in sound ???

@PaulThird 5 ай бұрын

@hanters7746 I've not heard E50 so can't comment

@wuujujuuju Жыл бұрын

I’m still at a loss for why I would choose a dx7 pro plus over l30ii & e30ii?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

Cause its the best measuring DAC topping sell as well as one of the best measuring DAC's period. It has better filters as well as their own I/V conversion circuit to maximise the performance out of the ESS SABRE ES9038PRO DAC chip (e30ii uses AKM) which they say sounds the best and why it's only used in their flagship models. L30ii & e30ii combo will sound great, I have no doubt about that in the absolute slightest. However, the dx7 pro+ is the best I've heard. Even apollo x6 through L30ii couldn't get the sound of that unit and the Apollos have very good DAC compared to other interfaces. Is it the ESS chip, is it the circuitry? .. I really dunno but the seperation and detail of the dx7 pro+ takes mixing on headphones to the highest level I can achieve. The Bluetooth connectivity is a cool addition but I hardly ever use it. The speakers I have can do Bluetooth so I might switch to that but not a deal breaker. I've heard AKM stuff and it doesn't do the detail and seperation of the ESS SABRE stuff but at the end of the day, that L30ii & e30ii would still be an awesome setup

@wuujujuuju Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird wow, thank you so much for your time! I see I am overlooking the importance of the DACs performance, which you literally discuss in the video, I’ll be heading back to Amir now to compare DACs(:

@bekatech7423 Жыл бұрын

Are you recomended for me vsx i hear alot of good review . I want to go in this world of mixing and mastering but i. Am in the badget ?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

I've not tried them so I can't reccomend them but Emrah does for translation and I trust his ears

@bekatech7423 Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThirdask emrah for the sound of them pleas ? can you recomended a budget sutup headphones for me please ?🙏🏻🥺

@MrTunes333 Жыл бұрын

I am interested in the Ananda Nanos but can only seem to find the regular Amanda's and no sign of the Nanos? Also, I am using the MOTU Ultra Lite AVB audio interface. The converters are pretty good but do you know if they will bottle neck the Ananda Nanos?

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

store.hifiman.com/index.php/ananda-nano.html My advice is always buy a seperate headohone amp if you are dealing with an interface. I've not heard any interface headphone amp that sounds as good as the topping l30 mk2. If you are very happy with the conversion then just buy a high quality headphone amp, bottle neck sorted. However, ive not tested every interface so my advice is to buy a high quality amp and A/B it. If the motu is giving you enough clean power to drive the headphones then you'll be fine as impedance won't matter much as planars have flat impedance but dynamic cans will be affected if you are using low impedance phones with a higher impedance amp (over like 1 or 2 ohm) My advice is buy an amp and listen for yourself but as an added note, there is a difference with motu conversion. When white sea studio had his custom built speakers lennart advised him to swap out the motu for RME as the conversion wasn't up to scratch so wasn't producing the DAC needed for optimum performance. They did A/B's between each other just to ensure Lennart was right in what he was hearing. That's why I always advise investing in a high quality DAC amp specifically catered for optimum output performance. Topping and RME being my reccomendations. Expecting a £600-700 audio interface to give you optimum input AND output quality is quite the stretch being honest

@MrTunes333 Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Thanks for the info mate. I do have a Topping L30II, which is better than the MOTO Headphone amp, I also have a Focusrite ISA One pre amp which sounds good going in. I was just not sure if my converters in the MOTO would bottle neck any further improvement headphone wise.

@PaulThird Жыл бұрын

@@MrTunes333 it's possible but it's not gonna stop you mixing on headphones professionally. My dx7 pro+ is the best Ive heard, even better than apollo x6 & L30ii combined. You'd have to try the topping or rme adi-2 pro FS to truly know if the motu conversion was causing a slight bottle neck to your ears. It's a hassle but you need to hear for yourself

@MrTunes333 Жыл бұрын

@@PaulThird Cheers mate, great channel.

@citadelo5ricks 7 ай бұрын

I have a specific question. If I apply the Harman curve (via autoeq) to my headphones for my mixdown, when I subsequently audition my mix should I apply the Harman curve or not?

@PaulThird 7 ай бұрын

Never print your headphone eq

@citadelo5ricks 7 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird Thanks for answering. Correct, I am not printing my headphone eq. So my question remains.

@PaulThird 7 ай бұрын

Define audition. Are you talking about in or outside the daw?

@citadelo5ricks 7 ай бұрын

@@PaulThird By "audition" I simply mean to listen to the stereo master that I just mixed. Could be in DAW or outside.

@PaulThird 7 ай бұрын

Well it depends. I like to listen to my headphones after export pit the daw cause it's not running through the eq and crosstalk. Allows me to hear how the mix translates to a hifi curve. I mix 100% through harman and also use it when listening to Spotify, tidal etc via equaliserAPO which incorporates auto eq presets. I try and listen 95% to harman on headphones