How to Navigate Symbolic Interpretations (Symbols Patterns Hierarchies channel)

Рет қаралды 11,702

Күн бұрын

This is a repost of a discussion I had on the Symbols Patterns Hierarchies KZfaq channel. Jakub is Polish and has made a series of excellent videos on symbolism in anime both in English and Polish. My brother Matthieu and I really enjoyed his videos and I decided to contact him for a discussion.
We talk about my time in Africa, Moana and ambiguity in symbolism, seeing symbols in context, monsters and waters above and below, the proper relationship between center and margin, Dune, hierarchies of interpretation, Bitcoin and how to go about disobeying corrupt authority as a Christian.
Check out his KZfaq channel: / @muadek2
His Polish channel: / @muadek
Original video:
Symbols Patterns Hierarchies: JONATHAN PAGEAU: missions, patterns, Dune: • JONATHAN PAGEAU: missi...
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Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:31 - Start
00:02:04 - The 3 Pageau brothers
00:04:51 - Missionary work in Africa
00:17:49 - Ambiguity in symbolism
00:28:32 - The flood, waters above and below
00:35:09 - Centre VS margins
00:36:44 - Dune & navigating symbolic perspectives
00:48:50 - Bitcoin
00:52:55 - Dealing with corrupt authority
00:54:49 - Outro
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- The Symbolic World website and blog: www.thesymbolicworld.com
- Merch: www.thesymbolicworld.store
- My brother's book on symbolism - Language of Creation (Matthieu Pageau): www.amazon.com/Language-Creat...
The Symbolic World podcast:
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My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.
My website designers, Anomalist Design: www.anomalistdesign.com/

Пікірлер: 86

@ckokomo808 2 жыл бұрын

Just wanted to say thank you Jonathan- I’ve started watching your videos a few months ago (and read your brother’s book) and it’s really opened my eyes to the grandiosity of Christianity. Learning about some of these patterns has helped me to look for these in everyday life but more importantly, it’s given relevance to the Bible and Christian practices. As someone raised Catholic, I seem to have just fallen into it (which isn’t a bad thing). After moving away from the Church, exploring the atheistic texts, practicing yoga/new age stuff, I’ve realized it’s all a bit empty. Like you’ve pointed out, most of these practices/viewpoints follow a religious pattern but they are lacking in their fullness- and I FELT this. I’m exploring your work and moving into (re)reading the Church Fathers. I’m grateful for your ministry 💚✌🏽

@MariaPerez-uv8mm 2 жыл бұрын

Amen 🙏

@vicsummers9431 2 жыл бұрын

Jonathan, I read Maximus’ Ecclesiastical Mystagogy yesterday and my mind was blown. The second half is very much mysterious to me right now, but his thoughts on the structure of the church/human/cosmos are fascinating

@FirstnameLastname-py3bc 2 жыл бұрын

Well, read all Church Fathers and you'll be blown away (From wherever you are to Orthodoxy :P, okay that's not a requirement but you will definitely be blown away)

@vicsummers9431 2 жыл бұрын

@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc I certainly feel the pull! So far I’ve read: St Ephrem’s Hymns on Paradise St Irenaeus’ Demo. of Apostolic Preaching St Gregory of Nyssa’s On the Life of Moses Matthieu’s Language of Creation If you have a few favorite reads I’d love to hear them.

@huntz0r 2 жыл бұрын

@@vicsummers9431 St Athanasius’ On the Incarnation

@FirstnameLastname-py3bc 2 жыл бұрын

@@vicsummers9431 oh wow, you have a nice list! I was interested in more theological side coming from you know nominally Orthodox not having close relationship with Church, and interested in theology as itself I've read Against Heresies (or against false gnosis) by St. Irenaeos Refuted a lot of my misconceptions What's interesting is that when you read Church Fathers and what not and then think back about it - it's clear it's all there in the Bible, Church Fathers didn't say anything that wasn't there, it's just - you need eyes to see and ears to hear, or rather - that which even blinds can see but those with eyes healthy but mind and humility shut cannot see (I guess)

@russellhoward3866 2 жыл бұрын

St. John Chrysostom's On Marriage & Family Life is really great.

@Joefrenomics 2 жыл бұрын

Honestly, I’d love to just sit and have Jonathan tell me stories about Congo. So fascinating…

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

Congratulations on reaching 140k subs! Feels like 100k was just yesterday.

@friedabokorny7140 2 жыл бұрын

Allow some comments on Dune. The first book is for sure the classical hero's journey, but Herbert twists this with the following books, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. Herbert had the complete storyline worked out, parts of the second and third book were written before Dune. I think, he wanted to create this fractal pattern, rise and fall, or like a spiral, or that no hero is infallible. He had conversations with Joseph Campbell. Sadly he died before finishing the whole series, but the 2 closing books by his son at least laid out the storyline. The conclusion was the merging of human and machine, mind and body. If you look at it, it sounds trivial, but I think it's the ultimate answer, like the comming together of opposites or like Jonathan would maybe say, the mind has to inform the body. Just one more example of the depths of Frank Herbert's thoughts: The Bene Gesserit (an intentional acoustic wordplay on Jesuit) are a female order with the purpose of genetic betterment of the human race. And then there is this line from Jordan Peterson: "Women choose their mating partners, so you can say women are nature, they are the ones who select."

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

I haven't read the Brian Herbert sequels, so I don't know, but I think the other points that you make are so spot on. Just like in the Old Testament, things are never "happy ever after" but unfold in this fractal manner, so in Dune the battle's never won for good. And yes, even yesterday I was thinking how the "pain box" scene was exactly the image of the masculine being tested and judged by the feminine. Later, by the end of the first book, we see how Paul outgrows this and manages to dominate the feminine altogether (for the time being, of course), thus forming a tyrannical hierarchy. The Bene Gesserit are put on a leash.

@mostlydead3261 2 жыл бұрын

yup that is how the catholic theologian Teilhard de Chardin saw the eschaton.. as well as Marshall McLuhan who was his disciple.. transhumanism is the fulfilment of Christianity in this understanding..

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

@@mostlydead3261 Oh no... that doesn't sound right :(

@mostlydead3261 2 жыл бұрын

@@muadek2 why not?

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

@@mostlydead3261 Our destiny is to ascend. We don't know what we will be, but we will be LIKE HIM (God). Merging with the machine is the opposite direction. It is descending, falling towards earth.

@truantj 2 жыл бұрын

The stone which the builders rejected has become the headstone of the corner. This is the Lord's doing and it is marvelous in out eyes.

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

Yes! That's the rule.

@marcschaeffer1584 2 жыл бұрын

Well... That was mind blowing...

@vicsummers9431 2 жыл бұрын

Love the picture you paint regarding the waters above and waters below. I’ve struggled with the distinction for a while.

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

Me too, especially in the "Weathering with you" analysis. I'd love if you checked it out and helped me with making sense of it.

@deerbard 2 жыл бұрын

Definitely waiting for continuation.

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

@ericdilley5969 2 жыл бұрын

Jonathan, please do a symbolic interpretation video on the Matrix series. Thank you! PS I personally think Matrix IV (Resurrections) is awesome! Hope you like it.

@mostlydead3261 2 жыл бұрын

what do u think its symbolism is?

@johnbuckner2828 2 жыл бұрын

Would also love to hear Jonathan’s interpretation of Zuck’s uncanny meta-verse commercial; I came across this one from ‘TruthStream media’ a couple days ago, & I’m curious how much it would align with his own interpretation: Resurrect dead on Saturn:surrogates in the meta-verse kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fqmChNiQqa3TYWw.html

@HeloIV 2 жыл бұрын

The hierarchy you describe maps very closely to Gene Wolfe's in his book The Wizard Knight (which he built according to Christian theology and Norse myths)

@mostlydead3261 2 жыл бұрын

Gaiman whom Jonathon admires praised Wolfe's fiction.. I wonder if Jonathon himself read any of it..

@HeloIV 2 жыл бұрын

@@mostlydead3261 it would be so cool to hear Jonathan talk about Gene Wolfe's work

@manfredarcane9130 2 жыл бұрын

Jonathan has been talking about the need for stories that reintroduce Christian narrative unexpectedly and so to say via back door - Wolfe's Book of the New Sun does exactly that. He'd probably have less difficulty with it than most readers do.

@mostlydead3261 2 жыл бұрын

@@HeloIV do u know of any youtubers who are fans of Wolfe? maybe Jonathon could be hooked up with someone like that for a talk..

@HeloIV 2 жыл бұрын

@@mostlydead3261 the only one I know about is the Distributist who has read the Book of the New Sun but hasn't made any videos about it, he just mentioned it a few times on some streams

@Countcordeaux 2 жыл бұрын

His question about the waters above is great. This also indicates (and I think this is the classical perspective) that the pagan gods are real, and live in the heavens. They are not just evil demons who deceived us. They are, however, still subordinate to the Creator.

@marcus8710 2 жыл бұрын

I keep getting intuitions that they are mis-operating members of the Divine Council, who help align creation toward the Creator in center, but have their own potency which can be misused somehow.

@girlygirlyxoxo 2 жыл бұрын

Read The Unseen Realm by Dr. Michael Heiser. He explains that very well.

@Countcordeaux 2 жыл бұрын

@@girlygirlyxoxo This looks very interesting; thanks!

@tourist1313 2 жыл бұрын

Whoa! I work with Ten Thousand Villages.

@protestanttoorthodox3625 2 жыл бұрын

I love when Johnathan goes all doom and gloom!!!

@fierybones 2 жыл бұрын

Topic suggestion: the bread and the wine

@EamonBurke 2 жыл бұрын

Aw man I thought they did a second one! I already saw this, I gotta stop seeking Pageau interviews out

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

Maybe one day... :) thank you for watching

@marymelnyk3678 2 жыл бұрын

Jonathan I can’t buy Dog’s God as it won’t accept uk cards to pay 😘 please put Paypal as an option if you can . I just live by all your talks and agree we need the lens of the biblical stories to see our meaning in the world. Thanks from the bottom of my heart to help me see how much I need to prune before trying to accent the ladder 🙏🙏😁

@VilkanVisions 2 жыл бұрын

Great questions and answers, thanks 🙂

@channel_vostok1486 2 жыл бұрын

What do you need condenser microphone and treated walls for like in a studio if you forget to turn the mic on man?! Sounds like the audio input is via laptop's mic.

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry, Brother. It was on, but it's really cheap and poor. I still need to figure out the proper configuration.

@nathanbixby5067 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Jonathan, merry (almost) Christmas. I am a Catholic and I have become interested in your works and interpretations of scripture. One thing that I’ve sort of come to question now is, what is the significance of this symbolism? What does this mean? Why does it matter? How does it ultimately help me pursue the ultimate meaning of my life? Is the meaning that you are pointing to that we should become one with God? I just am a bit confused of what you are really getting at or if symbolism is just a clever, interesting way to read scripture. God bless, sir

@random_person6041 2 жыл бұрын

💚💚💚

@mustlovedragons8047 11 ай бұрын

1:10 JP: "People don't know how to catergorize me." ME: Introducing Jonathan Pageau, _whom we shall forgive for being French._ :)

@wasumyon6147 2 жыл бұрын

The reverse operation, extreme control is calling out for freedom from that control through bitcoin, if it just calls the opposite in extreme control than all actions regarding freedom and control are simply a feedback loop with intermittent stopping points and flips.

@name._..-. Жыл бұрын

Great conversation. 👍 Point about bitcoin and especially comparison to the internet I just can't understand. Would you prefer world without internet?

@cidklutch 2 жыл бұрын

Always a good day when Jonathan releases an interview.. Great job debating Styx btw. I love you both but I was def on your side of the discussion. Keep it up :)

@Sansam52 2 жыл бұрын

where is that debate posted?

@Imabatass 7 ай бұрын

Hi @JohnathanPageau, I wonder if you can give me some insight into the symbolism of a recent dream I've had? In my dream, I remembered one of my earliest and fondest memories was in a classroom at the heart of a large, wide, warm tree. I went back as an adult and saw the tree had grown taller. I was told that school was no longer taught there because it was too steep for the children to climb. But it was not too steep for my adult self to climb, so went up into the heart of the tree. There, I noticed branches were beginning to grow into the clearing that was once the classroom. I felt a bit sad in my dream looking at the old desks, reminiscing, and the tree didn't feel as warm as it once did. 🌳 Is it the tree of knowledge? Is it OK that it's space is no longer for children? Was it a good sign that I could still enter the heart of the tree? Should I not look back onto the past? P.S. I love all your work, insights, and ability to explain complex ideas.

@jjuniper274 2 жыл бұрын

This might be off the subject, but I'd strongly recommend a week in Maui and the ride/hike to the summit if Haleakalā. I've never felt more spiritually connected in my life.

@cozzwozzle 2 жыл бұрын

I would say the same about being in the presence of Uluru in the heart of Australia.

@ibelieve3111 4 ай бұрын

Thanks

@TommyRushing 2 жыл бұрын

Your advise about looking at a story from every characters perspective is why a majority of people don't understand the Star Wars Prequels.

@UKnowURRetarded 2 жыл бұрын

I have one question ; in the christian interpretation, does society serve the individual or the individual serve society? Or maybe both of it?

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

Both, I guess.

@alphabeta8284 Жыл бұрын

St Thomas Moore for those who stand up to the state. And that is very recent history.

@KevinOnEarth_ 2 жыл бұрын

I can no longer attend Dr. Jordon Peterson’s talk at DAR Constitution Hall in DC bc the mayor mandated the vaccine for all events in DC. I have three row B tickets for sale if anyone is looking for an up close and personal experience with this incredible man.

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

It's the same here in Warsaw. Jordan advocates against mandates, while the organizer decided on having the mandate, even though it is not obligatory in Poland!

@universalflamethrower6342 2 жыл бұрын

Ipuwer papyrus actually describes exodus perspective. At least that is what some claim.

@alfredosaint-jean9660 2 жыл бұрын

Why can't accelerationism be a sacrifice?

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

Well, it's like supporting Judas in what he did. Some things have to happen but woe to those who commit them. To support things like that is to act on system's terms. Did the devil sacrifice himself so that God could redeem humanity? That's pure satanism...

@alfredosaint-jean9660 2 жыл бұрын

@@muadek2 Your argument is justifying Judas and Satan.

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

@@alfredosaint-jean9660 Well, then you didn't read what I wrote or I failed to articulate it well enough. Sorry for that.

@alfredosaint-jean9660 2 жыл бұрын

@@muadek2 I know you didn't mean that, that is why I wrote it.

@kyledonahue9315 2 жыл бұрын

An evil act done in pursuit of a greater good is still an evil act. You don’t drive out evil with evil, only love and humility can do that.

@gmclark2007 2 жыл бұрын

Jonathan would you consider yourself a polymath?

@michalptacnik1 2 жыл бұрын

Oh that niche is not nonexistent. There are many people who are interested in anime and in symbolism.

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Michal! Good to know :D

@Bolden47 2 жыл бұрын

At 30:00 he pretty much is asking is there heaven or end point or is this eternity of conquering monsters..

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

Well, maybe you could look at it this way :D

@alphabeta8284 Жыл бұрын

Jonathan has a very skewed and negative view of Catholics. Wonder why?

@muadek Жыл бұрын

His parents are lapsed Catholics. I don't know the condition of the Church in Canada but the news that reach me point to a total decay...

@Bolden47 2 жыл бұрын

Horrible take on bitcoin by someone who has only analyzed it from the outside and doesn’t truly understand it on an economic, financial, governance, and technological level.

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

Who can truly understand it, though?

@protestanttoorthodox3625 2 жыл бұрын

Dune was aweful

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

You think so? Awful or awesome?

@protestanttoorthodox3625 2 жыл бұрын

@@muadek2 I didn't even finish the remake.. just didn't hold my attention

@muadek2 2 жыл бұрын

@@protestanttoorthodox3625 Too bad:( I really loved the slower pace of it.

@protestanttoorthodox3625 2 жыл бұрын

@@muadek2 maybe I'll try an finish it. I don't have much patience with movies these days. Most of the stories just don't grip me.