Have you seen this one yet? It discussed all those things in detail: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rZtziriGu9S1XYk.html

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy thanks, not yet, will do so. did you see my question in the cherry planting video ?

All my notifications are gone now. Did I already respond? If not, it's possible youtube censored your comment. They do it all the time, and it's often quite random. It's possible only you can see the comment. If I didn't answer, ask it again, and I should get a new notification. My apologies, but I'm going to blame youtube on this one! Haha

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy no worries.that is pretty strange, i see my comments on my youtube account but when i open the video on another or no account, i can't see them... i will post the answer to the cherry video comment here again: ok thanks, so they don't eat your tree roots at all ?(forest gardeners and gardeners over here scare me because they think i will get a vole issue by mulching everywhere :D )they say that voles are the worst for trees and you must secure the new planted trees... are you sure you have voles or maybe more moles and so you have a solid equlibrium ? and won't jerusalem artichokes just feed them and even increase the population ? And are JA's good for soil ? Since we don't like them eating yet, we didn't plant them :)

It's always hard to say how things will work for different climates and areas. Here we have foxes and owls that help keep them in check. I'm not really afraid of "planting X to deflect Y will only cause Y to explode in population", because they the predators will also explode in population. it can be planting apples for deer, or JAs for tunneler critters, or planting hazelnuts for squirrels. I hear it all the time, and my only retort is that if you have predators of those things, then you don't need to worry. There MAY be a period of transition, but the natural response cycle will follow it. So yes, you may plant JAs and get more voles in year 2. But them you will get more owls in year 3 and beyond, and nature will balance. Yes you will always have moles and voles, and if seeing them now and then, and losing a tree to them now and then is what someone defines as "a problem" then yes you will have a problem. But balance isn't about eradication, and if eradication is our goal, then we will keep walking off a cliff towards the complete collapse of nature. So part of this demands a mind shift. Yes if you plant JAs you will have moles. You likely do anyways, but you may get more. But the goal is to create balance and abundance. Our goal should be abundance, and part of that means losing trees to moles and voles, but hopefully we deflect them enough with stuff like JAs that they have food to maintain a population without their ONLY food being tree roots, and then the predators jeep their numbers in check. As far as wpodchips promoting more of them, I've never heard that, and I don't see the correlation there. They don't eat woodchips, and they don't need them for habitat. If the concern is that they eat the critters that make woodchips home (worms and bugs who promote detritus nutrient cycling for improving soil health), then if the option is growing in dead soil or having voles, you know where my choice lands. Healthy soil to promote an ecosystem, and the eventual goal of balance. Not eradication mind you. But balance.

When I make FormidableFlora happy, I am 😊. Thanks for watching and commenting as always. You always have awesome additions and info.

That's great! Dr Elaine Ingham is one of my favorite resources on that topic. If you ever see one of her books, consider picking it up.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thank you for the info. I will check out her books and videos.

Sounds fun. Just a warning though, I wouldn't spread autumn olive. I like the plant myself and all, it's a great edible, but I wouldn't want to spread it into a wild area.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Right, you warned me before about that when I mentioned moving them because the birds love them so much (I've switched accounts), and mentioned that they're better used as a food for building our soil. I'm keeping that in mind. In the meantime, I'll let the birds enjoy the berries!

Nice!

Good luck! I would also try to source some compost or manure and put that between the woodchips and cardboard. It will help break down the woodchips a bit and build soil faster for this first year.

I have never heard of this. Thanks for the rabbit hole. I will look into it!

I’ve just discovered Korean natural farming and have just made LAB soil bacteria fertiliser! Can’t wait to make JADAM and all the other acronyms 🤣

I just looked into knf last year can't wait to implement this year

I mulch with hay, baled next door so the biomass is a localized mix of the area. In the fall we've topped our raised bed a off with 12 inches of hay then on the spring added a few inches of local topsoil and compost. Have other areas we are changing into a food forest. Don't have easy access to mushroom compost here in central KY but do have an abundance of natural resources on our property, ie leafs! Thanks for the video.

I really like that idea, but only if the layer is thin enough that it doesn't mat completely and create an air and water barrier. Great comment, thanks 😊

haha

Just add more, interplant more bushes between trees in a way that leaves a weaving path through the triangle block. Turn the triangle block into a little forest oasis. That's how I'd naturalize this. Also look for some cook rocks and logs to add as both beauty and naturalization, but also as habitat.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy great ideas! Thank you,,,,said sincerely,, I promise 😀 I make quilts, and can be very creative. But, this permaculture adventure is kind of stumping me. Thank you for your help!

I hope this helps other people who are in your situation right now. Clearcutting for pasture is bad. Selective cutting to release light, increase diversity, and get a variety of tree ages into an established monoculture, that's not bad, that's forest management. :)

Glad you enjoyed it

Glad it was helpful! I think I'm going to do something a bit similar on a future video on land selection. I think it's useful to have some moments where someone can pause the video and think a bit. It's this thinking time that is a habit I want to build in people. A little bit of forethought can go a long way in making a project successful.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Yes i agree with you and im looking forward to your new videos, keep it up!

Sounds awesome. Worst case for the grasses, you can dig out the strawberries (as many as you can) and solarize the area in the spring. I can do a video on that in the future. Basically mow short then water then cover with a clear tarp. The area under the tarp will get to 200-250F and will nuke anything living there. Its a decent way to hard-reset and area quickly.

Thanks Adam, me too! I think this spring many many plants will go from being sticks in the ground to actual decent sized small trees and bushes. The aethetics are going to slowly turn more and more jungle as the years go by. I hope this is the first year that I really start seeing full vision lines being blocked out, and it feeling like you are really "inside" something.

Nice! I hope it helps you get started, that's why I'm here!

Me likey

it's good to loosen up the clay that was used to fill in a few spots in the yard. After watching this I went in the garden and started digging that fork-wide, fork-deep trench, and I don't get very far and am exhausted from digging. and will finish it by the end of tomorrow, as we're losing the heatwave after that. You're doing it so much more easily, especially since we could simply sow seeds on the surface and scratch them in, and everything will grow just as well anyway~ In the spring we sowed radish seeds along the fence, and they came up fine, they were even growing on top of a brick walkway that had a quarter inch of soil on top, and did fine even with all those bricks directly in the way~

The trench was filled in with light branches that were sitting in a pile for a few years, then with tomato stalks, end of season tomatoes, leaves, dirt from the driveway, more leaves, and pretty much anything resembling dirt. Ten buckets of clay from the trench got spread out by the back fence. the new garden area got a cover of radishes and garden cress and watered in. Now to look for what's been chomping on the strawberry leaves.

Haha yeah for sure! Make sure to keep the cardboard damp. Check on it once every few weeks, ajd if the cardboard is wet, then water the patch. I know it sounds weird, but if it gets dry it turns into a water barrier, and won't break down at all. That stops moisture coming up from the soil to the chips also, which means the chips won't break down either. It doesn't have to be soaking wet, but it should be slightly damp at soil level if you pull back all the chips.

Hi! I’m going to try this in my weedy yard to start my garden bed. Wondering how that method worked for you. My weeds are mostly nut sedge and my grass is Bermuda.

Amazing :)

We are here In zone 4, finnish zones. I have grapes, Apple tree, cherry tree, honeyberry, Black current and some others in my garden. Even artichokes 😀

Thanks, great idea. I know people even use those to line ponds with!

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I don't doubt that a bit. I bet it would work beautifully.

Thank you, Lisa. Used billboard material is slowly becoming a "thing" on some channels I watch. I will try it for a slope I have that needs the soil warmed up. Happy 2021!

You bet!

For the leaves, just try to make sure they are shredded. They will mat and block O2 to the soil. If you did put them down without shredding them, try to stir them about now and then, just to get some O2 down there.

Haha trick questions are important. Sometimes in life we find ourselves tunnel visioned on solving a problem where the correct solution is to reconsider the question.

Haha, don't we all! Thanks 😊

Check out my response to him. I don't like burying root blockers, I think you are creating a large problem to solve a small one. My method, if it were my tree, would be onions and leeks and dill and sage everywhere. Smelly plants that they don't like. Then, get a cat or a dog.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy good insight, thank you! I'll be sure to plant plenty of those. Definitely don't want to block the roots I was really just thinking of supporting the cages, not diving deep into the earth around them, but you are right that does add a lot of additional work/problems. I've got a dog and 3 cats so that won't be too much of an issue once I move, but that's where the issue lies. Trying to build out this space in around a year in advance of me being there full-time and I foolishly bought cultivar grafted fruit trees in advance instead of going more into the hardy/seed grown style(which cost wayyyy less as well haha and I learned about after the fact). Always something to learn!

It's likely not that. I remember reading some experiments that showed almost zero soil pH change from a 1 foot thick layer of pine needles that were harvested young (the most acidic). It was postulated that it takes decades of constant drop to impact soil pH from pine needles.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Interesting!

Thanks! For your question, this is actually one of those niche areas where I may not have enough experience to answer, but I do have enough experience to know that other people believe its a niche area with a different answer. Grapes and citrus trees apparently (I cannot confirm this) prefer not to be mulched. They prefer bare soil around them. Now for citrus I can believe it, because they are desert trees, so the environment they evolved in was bare soil. So that makes sense to me. But for grapes? I'm not sure I believe it... but I'm also willing to admit I am not an expert growing grapes for 50 years. And some people that do have that level of experience have said not to mulch grapes. But then again, some people who grow 100,000 acres of monoculture roundup resistant corn will also have ways they swear by which I think are straight up atrocities to the planet. So long way to say, I'm not sure for that one niche area of grapes. What do I do? I mulch my grapes with woodchips (they form a hard woody stem, and in nature they climb up trees, thus likely want forest fungal soils). My grapes produce like crazy. So my opinion? Woodchips as the mulch layer, and smothering layer based on what is there right now, and how hard it will be to kill it. I would say, think layer of compost, then cardboard 2 layers thick, some mushroom compost on top of that, shredded leaves and or woodchips on top of that. Let it sit for half a year or more, then plant grapes into the soil, and recover with woodchip mulch.

I would seed a cover crop into it, then cover with light woodchips or shredded leaves, straw etc. See how the growth is this next year, if you get tons of really hard to deal with weeds, then you can sheet mulch it next year. It's good to see what pops up, because it may be really good natives in your seedbank in the soil.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy thanks for the advice! That sounds like a very good approach.

Grow radishes (daikons are great) and leave them in the ground. Do that for a few seasons and they will really help break up the clay and add organic matter. It's basically creating in situ work farms.

How I would handle existing trees would be to either start when the trees are fully dormant, or slowly sheet mulch around the tree in phases a few months apart. The reason for this is that the cardboard will be a water and air barrier for the first few months, and the trees may not enjoy the sheet mulching process very much. However if you think of the area around the tree as a clock, and you did the slice from noon to 3 one month, then 3 to 6 the next month, then 6 to 9 the next month then finally 9 to noon the next month, then that allows time for the tree to get sheet mulched but still have access to water and air.

Not really, kale lasts into December. I have some apples that hold apples into February most years but this year's late frost killed them all when they were flowers. I could do season extension but I'm usually so busy with kids hockey rat I don't mind a few months downtime.

Yeah fungus is really good for annuals too. Just boost the bacterial component by also adding compost as you plant, and then manure in the fall. You can also do mid season applications of liquid fertilizers (such as nettle tea, comfrey tea manure tea, not chemicals, I'm talking organics). I did a video on them here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/id1nediG2968lGQ.html

No, but I hear it's bad. My poison ivy does the same thing. It eventually runs out of energy if I keep cutting it though. Nothing can survive zero photosynthesis. The key is to stay on top of cutting it, even if it doesn't seem like it's working. It seems that way until it finally runs out of energy and dies.

It will be fine. You can even use pure pine needles (pH of about 2), because it has been shown that even though these woods have very low pH, that they don't actually change overall soil pH unless used in MASSIVE amounts, for decades. The reason these forest soils tend to be lower pH is due to millions of years of constant deposits. Many studies have confirmed that using these woods for woodchips, and even pine needles for mulch will have no impact on your soil pH. And for what it's worth, I used a food of pine needles (among the lowest pH of these) to mulch my blueberries, ajd after 6 years the soil pH is still exactly 7.1, the same as it was 6 years ago.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Great, thank you. Good to know.

Really? For me it's about a year. You may not see signs of decomposition, but it's probably happening. Remember that it happens from the bottom up, not the top down. So the woodchips in soil contact are likely breaking down but you aren't noticing it because it's almost impossible to. The only concern would be if they are drying out and going completely hydrophobic. That, or if your mulch is almost pure cedar or black locust, and therefore have fungal resistance to breakdown.

I have a bunch of them. I think promoting the insects you want by building habitat for them is a fantastic idea. My whole "hands off, let nature take the wheel" approach should be done after we kind of give it a nudge in the right direction. It's more about letting systems evolve and mature, and less about complete abandon science experiment stuff. I think a little smart design, a little preferred nudges here and there is a really solid plan. Mason bees definitely fit this and are a great idea.

No, it doesn't last long. Just long enough to smother the grass. All my mulched areas have extremely strong mushroom networks. Dense thick white mycelium

Are they so bad you can't plant in there? If it were me I would try to leave the roots in the ground and just plant around them. They will decompose over the next 2 to 3 years, and be a great source of nutrient and will create air pathways in the meantime. If you did want to, yes, you could build up on top of them.

It's really only a big concern for the establishment phase, and for really young trees/bushes that may not get up above the grasses. Once your stuff is tall enough to be well above the herbaceous layer, it doesn't matter anymore. A monoculture of grass (or any heavy feeder) can suck up water very quickly during rains, but if you have a polyculture of plants, some nitrogen fixers, then it matters a little bit less. Sure the plants will still suck up water, but they also will prevent evaporation, and hold dew longer, etc.

Yeah it's a great move. I would still sheet mulch, but what I'd actually do is only work on half the area around a tree at a time. Fresh cardboard can act as a water barrier and you may stress the trees going cardboard around the entire base of it. If you only work on half the circle around the tree at a time (say 2-3 months for the first half, and then 2-3 months for the 2nd area around each tree). That way the existing trees will get good water into the soil for the transition.

Nailed it. Make sure yoy give those flowers and herbaceous layer some compost and/or manure. You can even just sprinkle it on top of the woodchips and as long as its just an occasional dusting, the rains will bring it down through the chips. So just have some handy, wait for a rain, and dust it on. Do that every week or so if you can. It will make a world of difference for them. That being said, just like how a tree will still grow in the middle of a lawn, your flowes will still grow in woodchips. This will just make them all that stronger and take them to the next level by putting them exactly in the environment that they evolved to dominate in. The main thing that will impact them is shade. Once our food forests grow, they change as the shade levels increase, and there is no way to stop that, as it becomes akin to fighting against nature. So the herbaceous layer has to evolve and change to shade loving plants like ferns, or get naturally pushed out to the sunny forest edge where the sun loving plants can exist.

The best way is to get a cat. The second best way is to get a dog. But overall, we are gardening outside and creatures are going to live in our systems. If for example someone tried to solve that problem by putting metal edging all around the tree, they may solve minor mouse damage and have the tree fall over in a wind storm in 5 years because they blocked the roots from being able to go out wide. Think about it this way... nature has moles and voles and mice and chipmunks running around forests and the trees don't all die because of it. When in doubt try to think big picture like that and see if the concern has any sensible merit.

Get tree protectors/ trunk guards and make sure you pull the mulch back a couple of inches from base of the trees. Get a Cat or two, depending on the size of your property, that live outdoors.

I third the cat recommendation. The chipmunks and squirrels were out of control in my yard until I got a barn cat. Now I have a happy cat that I occasionally see "cleaning up" my yard.

Yes I think you've nailed it actually. That's exactly how you should proceed in that scenario. I have to do it that way in my poison ivy areas.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy thanks so much for your response! I'm feeling very encouraged now! And pulling weeds is kind of therapeutic for me... the zen of weed pulling! 😊

I have 3 videos queued up. One of them discusses this! Stay tuned! Friday we build a hugelbed. Sunday we innoculate biochar and build a compost pile. Next Tuesday will be the old man trail wind and water discussion, which will directly address your comment.

Yep. I wouldn't be worried about the plum unless it was right under them, and they were very established. I find once you get about 1 to 2 drip edfes away from them, things do just fine.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy We took them down and I planted it between two former well established plants

I had a tiny 2 cycle engine one, but sold it on kijiji. Now I just make biochar with my prunings and stack firewood (backup in emergencies) with the larger stuff. All my woodchips I get from arborists.

Yeah it's a tricky plant for sure. I did a video specifically on it. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iNODYLmUqZ6XoIE.html. It's definitely something where it's best to focus on one area and eradicate it from that area, then move to the next one. Myself, I actually gear up and physically pull it out. However, I'd definitely advise caution. This is also a very good video here (not me): kzfaq.info/get/bejne/atWpoqeDrda1e2Q.html

Yep. Anything that was once alive can be mulch.

yes

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy thank you!

Yes. And can be as either full sheets in the smothering layer, or shredded as the mulch layer (although I recommend still adding woodchips on top for aethertic purposes, as shredded printed paper isn't the most pleasing and natural thing to look at). As far as concerns for inks and bleach.... some sources claim that bleached papers and the inks used for printing can be dangerous and therefore should not be used in compost. While this claim was valid years ago, the truth of the matter is that the paper and printing industries have come a long way from where they once were. The majority of papers and inks produced in the modern day are virtually contaminant-free. No need to worry about this anymore.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy thanks so much! I am loving your videos and loving learning about permaculture from a fellow Canadian. Keep up the great work!

I would constantly chop them until they got weak enough to smother. Cut them low to the ground, do it constantly, then mow it regularly. They will eventually run out of energy. Another good way is to keep goats and pigs in that area constantly.

Quick answer, inch of compost, cardboard, 3 inches compost, maybe 6-10 inches woodchips (or straw). It can be more complicated though, depending on what is going in. Make sure you check out this video, it will answer so much of this in a much deeper way: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iK2Ja6t928CUYHk.html.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy thank you so much! I just found you recently and you’ve done a lot to get me thinking about what I can change for the better in my little spot on the planet.

Awesome 👌 keep me updated on your progress. I'm happy to help answering any questions.

Yep. Check out these videos on how to sheet mulch (my favorite method is actually prepping the area a year or more in advance). kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iK2Ja6t928CUYHk.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nqeRe6WQ3NfUeXU.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iK2Ja6t928CUYHk.html Check these videos out on how I plant trees: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fsqcoJVpl6rSqHk.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mK12Y6V8nuDGg6M.html And check this video out on my drip-edge guild, because it's likely to be directly relevant to your situation: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kN6ZpLRykr3UdJs.html I'm sure I've talked about the drip edges/gradients thing in many videos, but this one focussed on it. I have so much info in so many videos, I could keep linking more to help out, but I think that's plenty for now! Make sure once you flesh those out, to check out stuff on how to next-level your garden, such as this, "this will change how you garden forever": kzfaq.info/get/bejne/max8rKqHzduUko0.html, and stuff like my pest control philosophy (spoiler, plant tons of herbs everywhere, and don't kill pests if you want to get the predators that eat them), or making biochar as a 2000 year soil amendment, or my ecological transition videos about building fungal soils that trees like, instead of bacterial soils that grasses like, etc.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy omg wow. Thanks a million. I live just north of Napanee so everything you sent me will be relevant. I really don’t want any pesticides on anything I grow. My goal here, even though it’s just an acre is to grow all my own food. I don’t eat or raise animals, so it shouldn’t be that difficult (I hope) It will be quite interesting to see what I can accomplish on an acre and the back forest. 🙂

I've been going to the Kaladar/Northbrook area for decades now, renting cottages, fishing, water skiing, etc. Thats likely quote a bit north of you though. My parents have a cottage up that way, and I'm going to start planting trees there now also. Its quite a bit colder though. We used to go up through Napanee and 41 when we lived in the burbs. Since we moved into the country we go up the back way now. Beautiful area of our amazing country.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy lol I live in Northbrook. I can’t believe you know the area. I actually ordered my fruit trees from Shelby garden centre just north of the 401 off hwy 41. What part of Ontario are you in?

I don't want to say exactly where, but close enough. My parents have a cottage on Kashwakamak. Have you ever had the blueberries from the family just at 41 and Harlowe rd? They are SO good, and completely wild foraged. I love supporting people like that. We buy from them anytime we can, even though I have more fruit than I need lol.