Right, As I said in the description, a prusik is NOT a viable back up for this system and should not be used.

Right right so just for clarification the other end of the white rope goes to a tree. I agree it would be better to have the dynamic rope going to the tree and be taught, but this is sort of a caving technique. There is slack in it so that one can rappel down it to access to the master point (it’s over the edge) . If it is tight then it is impossible to rap on. It’s a technique I use often to keep my dynamic rope from going over sharp edges (of course the downside is that it’s harder to get to the master point without and extra strand to rap on) thanks for the input! And you are absolutely right, I did ditch the prusik after I tied the clove

If you were planning to go back down you would have to untie them as you go down, or rappel using the other rope strand. Keep in mind that to lower after using the “guide mode” on the atc would require reconfiguring it. Also if you are top roping, then you probably have access to the top and do not need to rappel back down unless you just want to climb it again

Just pull your rope and untie the knots

You must lock off and unweight the atc device with either a prusik or other rope ascending device and simply put it back into a normal rappel mode.. I’ll make a video next time I’m out

No, a prusik is NOT recommended with this method. since the atc is on your belay loop a prusik (even if used on the leg loop, which is no longer considered good practice) could reach the atc causing the prusik to disengage and become useless. You will see many other rope soloing techniques using some method to maintain seperation between their primary and secondary pieces of equipment for this same reason.... You don't ever want your two progress capture devices to touch eachother (it could cause one or both pieces to disengage).

​@@AcesOfAveragehow about extending the atc like when rappelling? Then one could attach the prusik to the tie-in loop and still have separation?

@@FxdGearQueer I have two initial fears with this idea 1). You could potentially be taking a dynamic fall onto a piece of extention geaar (probably a sling or dogbone or something similar) which typically isnt the best (one could argue that it be ok depending the amount and type of rope you are climbing with... I still wouldn't advise it). This is similar to taking a big fall onto a personal anchor system. They are not really made for large dynamic falls. 2). The idea behind using the knots as backups is that if the belay device fails, then you would potentially slide down to the knot below. If you use a prusik, there is a possibility that the belay device slides down the rope and simply disengages the prusik and then you plumet to your doom. Good question tho. And just be advised I am not a certified instructor,so take my advice as advice and not truth (although i am an engineer and have been climbing for 15years, so I'd to think i have a decent idea of the forces applied to dynamic systems.. but im definitely not beyond mistakes!).

Great Falls National Park. Not sure of the name of this specific wall. Its a beautiful place though, and funny enough I also so happen to have went climbing at otter cliffs a few months ago and made a quick video on my time in Maine. That is also an incredible place to climb... although I still don't know why they decided to go witht the weird staple type anchor systems there (that bugged me for some reason).

Edited: The point of this video is not to show the "best" way to TPS, but rather to show a simple way with minimal gear. This method of ascending can be useful in an emergency situation if needing to ascend low class climbing (especially since most climbers do not carry ascenders with them when climbing). This method does not use static rope (and cannot be used with static rope).

@@AcesOfAverage I trust Petzl that has tested and recommends ascenders over you. The majority of top rope solo climbers all use ascenders while some UK climbers prefer shunts. Even toothed ascenders like the micro traxion, probably the most popular TRS device, wont tear the sheath below 6kN. (And it will still stop the fall)Leading you are never going to get over 4 kN unless you are close to factor 2, top rope you wont get anywhere near that. A properly set up and used TRS sytem will not shockload. You are the only guy I have ever heard of using an ATC. Sorry if Im sceptical that you know better then everyone else.

@@christophh9477 It looks like you've misunderstood the purpose of this video. I've edited my response above. If you want information about TPS'ing with ascenders watch another video or see this link: www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/General-principles-for-solo-climbing-with-a-fixed-belay-rope?ActivityName=multi-pitch-climbing. Edit: It is also worth noting that toothed ascenders CAN completely de-sheath a rope at less than 6kN depending on the rope used AND it is possible to reach those kinds of forces when TPS if slack builds in the system on accident ... There are videos on youtube showing this.

Actually I am aware, Thanks for offering though! In many situtations, it definitely could be more dangerious, but in this situtaiton it was not :) Scroll down for a full mathematic explanation of how angles effect forces on anchors. I'm sure you are aware that you can’t possibly know the full situation from ~15 seconds of video, nor can you actually tell the angle of the master point from gopro. Here is some background to prove my point: Neither of the trees quite passed my monolithic anchor requirements, so the judgement call I made was to put a marginally greater force on the anchor points (marginal since the angle of the anchor point was approximately a 60/40 degree split), but then be able to have a redundant anchor point (i.e. the cam). This was extra advantageous since using the monolithic set up also put the rope over a sharp edge. Furthermore, the static rope was not long enough to do anything else with the equipment I had with me at the time. The force onto an anchor is not as trivial as many diagrams online show, but the math is still covered in most high school physics courses. Most diagrams online assume the equal sharing of weight between two master points. This is almost NEVER the case in real life. When looking at a real-life example, the most reasonable mathematic approximation must use a system of two equations. For simplicity, let’s use the two following equations: The summation of forces in the X and Y directions on the master point. Sigma.X = 0 = Anchor1.XForces + Anchor2.XForces + Climber.XForces. Sigma.Y = 0 = -Climber.YForces +Anchor1.YForces + Anchor2.YForces We will align our Y coordinate unit vector to the unit vector of the climber’s pull, thus Climber.XForces = 0 Let the variable Gamma represent the angle between X axis and the Anchor1.Force.UnitVector. Similarly, Let the variable Theta represent the angle between the X axis and the Anchor2.Force.UnitVector. Lets now set equations to describe Anchor1.YForces and Anchor2.Yforces Anchor1.YForces = Anchor1.XForces/Tan(Gamma) Anchor2.YForces = Anchor2.XForces/Tan(Theta) Using the Sigma.X equation we see that Anchor1.XForces = Anchor2.XForces Since Anchor1.XForces = Anchor2.XForces we can express the forces of Anchor2.YForces in terms of Anchor1.XForces via the following: Anchor2.YForces = Anchor1.XForces/Tan(Theta) Therefore: Sigma.Y = Climber.YForces = Anchor1.Xforces/Tan(Gamma) + Anchor1.XForces/Tan(Theta) These are all the equations we need to solve the problem. In the video Climber.YForces would NEVER come close to exceeding > 2.5 kN so we will use this as the worst case. And if Gamma = ~60Degrees & Theta =~40Degrees In a top-rope fall producing 2.5kN (pretty much a worst-case scenario): Force on Anchor 1 (i.e. the tree) = 1.63kN Force on Anchor 2 (i.e. the cam) = 2.35kN This is somewhere near a 5.5 safety factor if not greater. AKA: Super safe, and still keeping the rope off any sharp edges, and keeping the anchor point above the climbing route to remove the risk of swinging after a fall. In reality the forces would actually be even smaller since the static rope still has some stretch and thus the angles between the masterpoint and the anchor points decrease with the rope stretch; not to mention the friction of the rope on the rocks absorbs some of the force before reaching the anchor points. I hope this has been educational for you, and if you would like a video with a diagram to explain the math let me know! 😊

QED

Great falls national park. Its definitley slept on.

Piece of gear you already have = 0

Good input! The leg loop Prusik is a habit that dies hard since extending the rappel means it’s harder to transfer from the anchor to the rappel, but you are totally right! It is definitely an antiquated technique that isn’t recommended

@@AcesOfAverage i think I'm a lot older than you, so if i can change... Lol

@@AcesOfAverage Oh, and I switched to a Giga Jul Which is brake assist and you can skip the back up. It is an amazing piece of gear. Love mine.

@@versusgravity I think it depends on the rope/biner combo. My gigajul locks up fine on fat gym ropes, but on my 9.8 and 9.5 it won't lock up for the life of me. I've tried multitudes of different biners with no luck.

Yep, but you might not have that gear when you need to ascend the rope, but will likely have a brake assisted belay device, and this method will get you up there safely. I wouldn't choose this as my regular TR solo method (rope feed will suck), but knowing it might save your butt one day.

I agree with @fionaandrews1939. There are few things I’d change if going back and remaking this video, (ex. The unorthodox yet fully legitimate anchor setup, and rappel setup), but I decided to leave the video up since all other “rope ascension with atc” type videos don’t really showcase how you can actually climb with it. In an emergency situation, climbing is probably the fastest and physically easiest method for ascending a route rather than inching up bit by bit like a prusik method or ascender method

Hey William, I truly appreciate your input! If this is truly as unsafe as you say, I'd gladly take the video down! However, I disagree. I'd would definitely like to know why you believe it is so dangerous. In rergards to your A, B, C points: A: while it is certainly less 'smooth' than using other devices, there are distict advantages. It does not damage the sheath of your rope if projecting a spot in a climb and a fall is expected in the same spot over and over, it is cheap, it does not require more than one static device which is simply lighter weight than using other more complex devics. B: All TRSing requires falling on a device hands free, and almost all climbing requires you to use one hand to manipulate the system when climbing (placing pro, cliping a rope to a quick draw etc.), so it is not unreasonable to expect a climber to use a free hand to take slack out of a system. It is possible to climb with this system using one hand. C: If you make a video about how to belay or tie a figure 8 knot, then people could take that information and get themselves in trouble with it. I am not responsible for others taking information and using it incorrectly without knowing the risk. Maintaining a back-up knot is the same as keeping a hand on the brake strand, and it also keeps any failure of the Guide plate (for example misconfiguration of the device due to slack build up) from being any sort detrimental failure. Obviously Top rope Soloing in general is always more dangerous than using a belayer, and will result in shock loading a device that is not in the hands of a climber/belayer. However, as I said, using a back up system which is never more than 5' to 10' underneath the device, mitigates the consequence of a device failure. Also, as an aside, if you were curious, I have been climbing for well over a decade (this does not mean I am incapable of mistakes of cource, so still let me know why you think this is unsafe!). I was planning on making another video outlining the risks and how this is not an officially approved configuration for the device by the manufacturer (but it is mentioned in the discription)... Like you said I would not want any inexperienced climber to go buy a rope and an atc guide and try this technique without knowing the risks, but that follows for any sort of rock climbing video. If I make a video about belaying, this does not mean anyone should go out and try it. The sport is risky, and any decision to climb should be at the climbers discretion. Climbing can be as safe as you want it to be and each climber should make the decision on how much risk is acceptable to them. For example I'm sure you know how risky simuclimbing is and yet the most famous climbers in the world do it often. I'll be sure to put a warning of this effect in my next video. In regards to the safety of the system used in this video though... If you continually use a backup knot underneath the system as shown, then there is not any serious danger aside from falling down to the knot. Structuraly, I cannot see not an danger of the device failing from the forces applied (I'm an engineer and have a very good understanding of forces applied in dynamic systems such as this). Just as those who rapel and go handsfree on grigris, it is certainly not advised nor is it officaly safe according to the manufacturer, however if a back up system is used, the consequence of device failure is not a life threatening issue. For example, how is this any more dangerous than TRSing with an ascention devices such as micro traxon which are not designed to take large shock loads without destroying the sheath of a rope? If one thinks ascention devices such as this do not take shock loads when TRSing because they slide up the rope with the climber, then they are mistaken. ATC Guides are known to be safe when used in this 'upside-down' configuration for rope ascention, the only difference here is that device could be shock loaded. Given that the device is designed for shock loads when belaying from the top of a climb, the shock loading in this situation is not a risk due to the forces applied, but rather the possibility of the device getting twisted into a configuration that is not 'autolocking'. This is why some sort of back-up is necessary. Using a back-up knot also takes place of the belayers hand on the brake strand. I will say, however, that back-up systems such as a prusik should not be used in this situation, since the device sliding down the rope could prevent the prusik from engaging. TPSing is always more dangerous than any other type of climbing involving two people, however by keeping excessive amounts of slack out of the system and always maintaining a back up underneath the device, the risk of device failure as well as the consequences of device failure is mitigated. I'll make another video further outlining these facts mentioned for those that are less experinced.

This method is a bit clunky and slow, but it's fine to use with one hand free. As long as the blue rope is dynamic, the falls are no worse than in regular lead climbing, even if the atc slides to the last backup knot.

My age must be showing, coz I'm so sick to death of people who think that life is a safety competition.

With all the information out there, it’s hard to believe you go to any length to justify this method