How to Waterstart a Sinker (Or any Size Wingboard More Consistently)

Рет қаралды 11,094

Күн бұрын

Detailed breakdown of the "Stinkbug Start" technique. Video includes helpful underwater camera angles and demonstrations with various board sizes.
For reference I'm 6' and 83kg, most of the video is on the 40L Flux, 1050 Operator Front Wing, and a 4m OR AA Glide Wing with a couple clips using the 60L Flux and one on the 84L Flux.
Thanks to David Sincox for the edit and Sam White for videography!

Пікірлер: 71

@user-dx1xm6ip8j 10 сағат бұрын

I weigh 70kg and I'm looking to change from the 89L board I'm currently riding to 67L. Thank you for the great video and it helped me a lot. Subscribe to the channel.

@mikeb1039 4 ай бұрын

The detailed and well done videos showing the nuances of doing this sport are SO helpful. First years there was nothing of consequence being filmed that helped a newbie much. Well done!

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

Thanks Mike, really appreciate the kind words and stoked you are getting benefit from the content. What would you like to see in the future?

@kiteblaster 4 ай бұрын

This is a really good video. I appreciate all the effort it took to get the underwater shots, and then break down a great detailed explanation!

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the kind words @kiteblaster!

@Mokescam 4 ай бұрын

Mahalo for the video and the challenge! I have been riding the swells now till I land in taxi and have improved my pump and staying on the top third of the waves. Tried the 92l board for the first time this morning after riding the 130l for the last 6 months. The technique works. Great video, keep it up.

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

Awesome, stoked to hear it @Mokescam! Thanks for trying the technique and providing feedback, I actually need to take my own advice and go back to that drill for my next session :)

@strongkiteboarding3572 4 ай бұрын

Great Video! I have waterstarted a 27L Armstong Board @80kg = 33.75% of body weight. I had to be so overpowered to get up that my arms were destroyed within a few minutes. Do not recommend. I ride a 44L F-One rocket as my daily because I found one for cheap but looking at a 36L next. I find about 50% of body weight is possible in lighter conditions but any less you need to be lit. Your waterstart is great! I find it easier to go from a straddle and fly the wing. Then I pull one leg up at a time while flying the wing overhead. The rest is the same.

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

34% of bodyweight is impressive Marty - wouldn't expect anything less from one of the first guys in the world to pull of the double megaloop! I used a 36L for a while and was probably a bit less than 83kg then, finding I'm liking a bit more volume for both wing and prone. I'm not sure if I'm flexible enough to pull my legs up like that but will give it a shot next time I'm on the water!

@northyvids 4 ай бұрын

Thanks a lot for taking the time to make this.. appreciated!

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

Glad to hear it's useful!

@fredmellon7327 4 ай бұрын

Really helpful and inspiring !

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

Thanks man!

@8ABC8 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the video, very helpful and well made.

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

thanks!

@Hdip 4 ай бұрын

I've started a 32L board, but for my everyday conditions the Flux 60L can't be beat. There's no downside to it. You use a palm up grip for your front hand. If you have soft handles and use a palm down grip for your front hand, you can hook you thumb in the soft handle and use two hands on the rails to transition from sitting to your knees. It's not necessary, but it's useful at times to have two hands on the rails. Nice demonstration and underwater angles.

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

Great point on the grip adjustment with soft handles @Hdip!

@A-Kiwi 2 ай бұрын

Excellent video.. thanks. I have been winging for less than a year, but sailing, windsurfing and windsurf foiling for 50 years. So I am good at reading the wind and gusts. I can now gybe in both directions both toe side and heel side. tried tacking the other day for the first time. manages 2 with touchdowns. lAso managed to wrap the leash around my neck! 😂 Currently i have a 115 l board and I weigh 80 - 85 kg. Need to start thinking about a smaller board. Smaller front foil is ordered.

@omenfoils 2 ай бұрын

Thanks A-Kiwi, yes if you are nailing tacks then it's definitely time to step down in volume, possible a big step down depending on your physical strength. Happy to chat more about boards, drop me a line at greg@omenfoils.com

@kippywylie 5 күн бұрын

I'm somewhat in this same spot as you are with your progression, and it's happened fairly fast because I started 2 months ago on a too large foil and a large 99L Armstrong board (I'm 50kg). Not sure how much I can practice the Stinkbug with this Armstrong 99L with it being so wide for a straddle. Find out this afternoon

@cyanwingfoil-kite-dive-travels 4 ай бұрын

great video bud really perfect - much love from cyan wing justin and bev

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

thanks guys!

@kountchev1 4 ай бұрын

thanx for sharing

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

appreciate the positive feedback!

@taavitiirik 4 ай бұрын

Notice how you are facing downwind while waiting for a gust. Meaning there is no chance for you the see the gust approaching, and in case of onshore winds your back would be turned towards the waves that are coming, meaning there is no chance for you to see these either, and you couldn't react if there happens to be a wave that is peaking and breaks and kicks you off balance. Have you ever considered to swap your arms? Grab the handle with your back hand first and use your front hand to press on the nose of the board. The nose of the board would be pointing more or less into the wind, meaning you can clearly see any waves and also the water texture that would say you a lot about the strength of the gust that is approaching. And now when a strong enough gust is coming, bring the wing on top of you with your back hand, let go of the nose of the board with your front hand and grab the handle, and then grab the back handle with your back hand. And off you go. I have a video example but posting links would likely not work here.

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

good point, I generally wait for a gust sitting in the straddle position and adopt the stinkbug once I know there will be some wind coming. I "launch" out of the stinkbug as soon as I feel the gust in my wing by grabbing the back handle. If you post a link to the technique your are referencing folks could copy and paste it into their browser to check out. Really appreciate that you brought up reading the wind, I think I only mentioned it once in the video and should have focused on it more as it is often overlooked. Something us wingers (myself included) need to draw from our sailing brethren with millennia of human experience vs only a couple years!

@taavitiirik 4 ай бұрын

@@omenfoils I guess it’s natural for us to fine tune the skills to suit the conditions we encounter more regularly. Just yesterday while watching the Cabo Verde competition (with very offshore winds) I saw somebody getting going with what looked exactly like your technique, and for me it was eye-opening to see how beautifully it worked. Thank you! I on the other hand am often doomed with onshore winds in our wave spot and getting going with a small board when it’s onshore and a bit light often takes lots of staring into the wind.

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

Absolutely, I’d still use an adaption of this technique for those conditions but more because it’s so engrained into muscle memory at this point. In a shallow spot with onshore wind I walk out as deep as I can and wait for a gust of it’s light then launch into this technique a bit more quickly by having the front handle in my hand already and climbing directly into the Stinkbug position rather than straddling. Totally agree with your point on techniques being adapted to conditions and locations in general.

@ozoneflysurfer9491 Ай бұрын

73kg have a 34L 4'4 x17.5 strapped for windy conditions but for most conditions 4'8x20 50L. For light wind midlegnth 5'7x 17.5 75L with inserts this board works for everything but a bit large for jumping

@omenfoils Ай бұрын

That sounds like the dream board quiver man! Hit me up to add the dream foil to it!

@Mcfly77777 4 ай бұрын

Just got my Flux 60L from Portugal, waiting for wind to try it!!!

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

Yew!

@kippywylie 5 күн бұрын

How'd it go? Mine comes in a few weeks

@siebe4579 3 ай бұрын

Great video! Is the 84L board suitable for a beginner weighing 75kg? I'm looking for a board that will remain suitable as my skills progress, without the need for a quick upgrade.

@omenfoils 3 ай бұрын

Absolutely @siebe4579 using this technique a relatively athletic 75kg beginner would make amazing progress with the 84L Flux. Also a big bonus in that you'd never grow out of it since even when you downsize you'd always have a fantastic light wind board to keep for the marginal days. That being said, I would recommend learning your first 5 or so sessions on a really big wide board. Something in the 120-140L range is really nice for taxing around and learning the basics of foil steering, wing flying, and bringing them together. Ideally this is something you can borrow or rent though since it will quickly become obsolete based on your increasing skills and despite the volume will never be a good light wind board due to the width.

@franpinyol8500 13 күн бұрын

Hi, Do you ever ride on foot straps ? I only kite surfboards strapless, since 15 years ago, but it's hard for me to pump the wing board and to find the right spot for the front feet when strapless. Maybe this is a topic for a video

@nickrhodes3378 4 ай бұрын

In choppier conditions, don't you feel the need to push the strut (both handles) down for more stability after getting to your knees?

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

I mentioned in one of the clips that I pull the wing down with my hand while pushing up on the LE with my head/shoulder for stability. Generally as soon as I have both hands on the wing I use the wind for balance. I definitely have pushed it into the water if losing balance in light wind though. Should probably do a whole separate follow up video on all the little tweaks and modifications that can be made! thanks for sharing!

@GARAASJ 3 ай бұрын

Super interesting re the sinker board as a LA foil! Quick question: you don’t seem to use straps (for this technique), wouldn’t that help with keeping control? So far I have only used my sinker with straps so looking forward to get an insight in your experience.

@omenfoils 3 ай бұрын

thanks @GARAASJ! I don't like straps due to the safety aspect of protecting my knees and ankles and also like to move my feet around so can't comment too strongly on their use since I've had relatively little experience with them. That being said, for the stinkbug technique they just seem to get in the way when I have tried them and I end up getting hung up on them until underway. How do you use the straps when starting?

@GARAASJ 3 ай бұрын

@@omenfoils funny, I use (the front) strap(s) to avoid falling on the foil when crashing. So far my ankles and knees have sustained those crashes, although on floater boards I have ended up being locked in slightly painful positions. Sinkers are easier to manipulate so no issues there. My sinker is a 60l relatively boxy 4’9 x 20” with a constant curve rocker, so maintaining for/aft stability can be a challenge. The straps help to get my knees in the exact spot (i.e. right behind them). Fyi: just finished shaping a blank with a super agressive nose rocker and rounded beveled rails as a diy experiment. The scoop is about 6 inches and levels to a more standard rocker after about 8/9 inch. Hoping to get a lifty an quick underwater vessel that bounces back upon touchdowns

@omenfoils 3 ай бұрын

@@GARAASJ very cool, drop a link to some pictures when you're done! Good point on avoiding the foil when falling, I had figured the straps might make a "reverse taco" more likely since you can't jump away.

@foilride9115 4 ай бұрын

Very good techy video, as yours always are. It raises one question with me though, is this a Stinkbug or a Rodeo start? My understanding is that a Stinkbug starts from laying on the board and a Rodeo is from straddle.

@Hdip 4 ай бұрын

I've always viewed the stinkbug name as coming from the wing over your head as you're getting onto your knees. I guess a rodeo start is close enough. Are you trying to say I've been doing rodeo starts for the last year? :)

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

I think you're right on the OG stinkbug starting out by lying on the board so this is probably a "modified stinkbug". I'd say that because I always assumed the name came from the crouched position with the wing over top of you looks pretty "stinkbuggy" to me! As my bad attempt at sarcasm in the video was suggesting I think it's a rather lame name! Would love it if I was rodeo start but my understanding was the rodeo start was when you straddled the board, flew the wing overhead, then used its lift along with your feet wrapping the board to get to your knees. It's a really slick looking technique but I just found it uncomfortable and difficult and I'm relatively fit and at least somewhat flexible. I'd imagine if you could consistently pull off the rodeo it would be better in anything but really light wind but for 90% of the population I'd bet the stinkbug is easier and more consistent.

@foilride9115 4 ай бұрын

I vote we call it the Omen Start! @@omenfoils

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

@@foilride9115 haha, thanks for the kind words but I think that would be taking too much credit! Would love to know who came up with the original Stinkbug start, as long as their last name isn't Dinkleberry or Adolf I'd propose a name change to honour them!

@tormarquis 4 ай бұрын

Hello. great video. Im really struggling with this now. Can you please post the windspeed you are negotiating in this video?

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

It was rather light wind for most of the clips in this video, not ideal for learning the technique but a good example of how powerful it can be even in light - moderate winds with relatively small equipment. I'd recommend waiting for a 20-25knt day to learn the technique. What part of the technique are you typically getting held up on?

@tormarquis 4 ай бұрын

@@omenfoils honestly, i want to try this technique before I say. This looks like a good place to start even on my larger board .

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

Sounds good@@tormarquis , please let us know how it goes!

@wsurfn 4 ай бұрын

I so want an Omen.

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

I'd say YOLO but then again we might be a little biased over here!

@edArmstr 4 ай бұрын

Bro, try to hold wing and board with you front hand in same time and climb on your board from a side. When one tip of your wing stays on the water it much easier to balance, than grab back handle and lift the wing. I am using 50 l board 83 kg. It much easier and faster…chears

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

Thanks Ed, do you use soft handles or hard handles on your wing? I wish I would have mentioned that variation for those using soft handles on the wing. I totally agree on using the wing to balance - I mention it in one of the clips but wasn't demonstrating it well everytime. Good to have some items for a follow up video, thanks for taking the time to share these observations and tips in the comments!

@edArmstr 4 ай бұрын

Now I am using hard handle and boom (slick). But it works with everything.

@christophercurran4641 4 ай бұрын

I do the same, but Greg's variation looks like it works just as well!

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

@@edArmstrnice, I need to give it another try!

@xavierbosch7102 4 ай бұрын

I actually own a 100L board, I've been foiling for about a year and a half and I improved a lot. I am now searching for a new smaller board. I don't think a sinker would fit me although I believe sinkers are the pinacle of all boards once you're flying. I live in Barcelona and there's not much wind. During summer there's even less wind so I need a lightwind equipment, that's whats pushing me away from sinkers. Also, I'm afraid of the wind dying and not being able to return to the coast. The idea of floating in the sea with a small board terrifies me 😰.

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

That makes sense Xavier, ultimately the best board is the one you can ride most often! I don't think a sinker is for everyone. One thing to think about in really intermittent wind is also how well the board paddles when "prone". A narrow & longer board will paddle much faster with less effort than a short wide board even if it is significantly less volume (to a point). How much do you weigh?

@shunichimenjo5448 4 ай бұрын

I am 55Kg w and use 45L.

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

so about 82% bodyweight, a good size for an all rounder - you ever tried something around 35L?

@shunichimenjo5448 4 ай бұрын

Yes I did try but 😢

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

@@shunichimenjo5448 maybe after learning this technique you'll try again?

@tormarquis 4 ай бұрын

Hi, again. I went out today to practice some of your techniques on my 8'2" ginzu dragonfly (120 l and Im 97 kg). I couldnt get over how unstable that board is when not moving in the chop. After watching this video a number of times , I came to the conclusion that , in choppy seas , you seem to be having an EASIER time getting up on the sinker! It seems to be lest affected by the chop. I discussed this with my friend who is much better than me and he said it may be true. Is this true, or are my eyes deceiving me?

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

I do agree that a sinker board is often easier to start in really messy conditions. What part of the stinkbug sequence did you find yourself generally falling off during?

@tormarquis 3 ай бұрын

@@omenfoils I cant really say yet, because the wind died... so that ended the story before it began.... but it really gives me hope to watch you do that maneuver. I also saw another tip on a different video.... to hang your back foot off the rail for stability before you get going. I plan to use that as well.

@omenfoils 3 ай бұрын

sounds good@@tormarquis looking forward to hearing how it goes! Will be interesting to hear if you try both techniques if you find hanging the back foot off the rail is helpful or just creates more drag

@Fjordjumper 4 ай бұрын

Hey Greg. I am 92kg w/ a 60 L Flux on order. Do you think the following technique would be possible on the Flux getting from rodeo to kneeling w/o taking my hands off the powered wing? - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j82ilJqT1Zibn2g.html

@omenfoils 4 ай бұрын

I think the narrower outline of the Flux makes it easier to swing your legs around it. I think whether it is possible comes down more to the rider's flexibility and mobility. I couldn't get it to work comfortably myself but all the comments on this video have inspired me to spend some more time trying other techniques, haha!

@Fjordjumper 4 ай бұрын

@@omenfoils Right, maybe sporting a protective cup instills more confidence with this maneuver