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Ultimate Clone Saga worked for one reason: having one creative team without constant editorial interference.

My biggest complaint is that after this story Jessica isn't given much to do in the Ultimate universe. She's just kind of thrown around and appears when it's convenient. They could have had her try to mentor miles but they didn't.

Bendis really did leave such a strong and lasting effect on the legacy of Spider-Man. Ultimate Spider-Man was by big foray into modern day comics. Absolutely love the story.

“Identity theft isn’t a joke, Octavius! Millions of families suffer every year!” And I think it’s because of Bendis succeeding with the Clone Saga that every mark of a Spider-Man writer’s hubris after Bendis was trying to redo the Clone Saga, but good.

Legitimately, I have told people that I want the MCU to adapt clone saga. But when I tell them that, I tell them that I want the ultimate Spider-Man version.

Jessica Drew was a big highlight of the clone saga for me. I loved seeing her interactions with Peter and how she helped him find his identity. I definitely wish we got to see her journey in a solo series.

This came out great, Owen! Thanks so much for letting me be a part of it!

I genuinely love Ultimate Jess and wish we got to see her in a solo book really going through that self discovery

Ultimate Jessica Drew had sooo much potential. In her perspective, she’s a male living in a female’s body with memories of Peter Parker. It could’ve been awesome to see her grow and develop as a person. They could’ve tackled a lot of themes with her but they act like she never existed

I'll be honest, Ultimate Jess deserves more spotlight. She is such a goldmine for so much...

Ah yes the *ULTIMATE* clone saga

I forget when I was exposed to the Clone Saga. I was still young but it was after its publication so I consumed it via a spider-man encyclopedia. The character designs always stuck with me and the broad strokes explanation made it sound really good and interesting. I'm somewhat equally aware of the ultimate clone saga but I can't say I ever associated them with each other. Probably a credit to Bendis's writing and execution.

The original Clone Saga highlights the loose relationship we have with time and comics both as a reader and within the panels. I had heard how bad it was before reading it as a kid, but I wasn’t really into comics so I was able to read the whole thing in one sitting via a friend who did. Within the comics I was entertained while sometimes lost with their scattershot focus to each already shifting character arc. Overall it ended up feeling like a thin, “Lol Peter’s life sux lol” joke stretched to the point of parody when they finally killed the whole thing off. The more direct allegory of Peter wrestling with literal different aspects of himself in the Ultimate Clone Saga was Bagley and Bendis at their best. It ain’t subtle and it’s all the more strengthened for it. I also love how it cemented the ultimate Doc Ock as one potential endpoint for Peter, playing as many sides as possible with his power and persuasion to take care of himself instead of others.

So glad you’re making a video talking about the ultimate clone saga. Seeing as how you already made a video about the original, it only made sense to see you cover this.

I might be in the minority, but I kind of love the original Clone Saga. It starts off amazing. Those first 6 months are stellar and the second 6 are still top notch. Sure the 2nd year dropped in quality (with some sporadic highlights). But then it ended strong with the 'Secrets' issue & Revelations arc.

The fact that scorpions are arachnids just like spidersa are in real life, makes the ultimate scoprion, being a Spiderman clone, even better for the story.

Love this arc, and I loved seeing this crossover between you two, awesome work

As a fan of the original Ben Reilly character, based in part off of how cool his costume looked to me as a kid, I'm glad to hear his character was still incorporated into the Ultimate series version. I would definitely like to look up more on this series.

I feel the best way to define USM is that is feels like a manga in a lot of ways. It's very self contained (mostly because there were barely events outside of it) , you feel time passing, the events adding up, the power ups and experience flowing perfectly. The arcs are very different and engaging, the character progression is palpable and the world feels alive and unstuck compared to the 616.

I don't remember much of the clone saga in the ultimate series but I do like the DeFalco and Mackie limited series.

As a fan of Ben Reilly from the 90s Spider-Man cartoon, I read the 90s clone saga when the complete saga released in graphic novels. I went through a spectrum of emotions and whiplash with every issue. There were some serious problems but being that I didn't read it in the 90s I got to appreciate it on my own time. I love Ben's struggle to find an identity for himself outside of Spider-Man and Peter Parker, yet he can't deny that those are ultimately a part of who he is, he just remixes them (with the ever memorable scarlet spider). Peter at that time was also struggling with anger, becoming more edgy the reflect the changing dark comic landscape. For me the 90s clone saga is about a man and his wayward clone coming to terms with each others existence and the saga does that but it also gets muddled with side plots and that go nowhere. I never read the clone saga from ultimate Spider-Man but this video just gave me another reason to go back to that series. Thanks Owen

The more I think about the Clone Saga & OMD, why did so many writers & editors had such resentment towards the marriage? From the fan-letters I read in several late 80s/early 90s Spidey issues, most readers had no problem with the marriage. Also, in the newlywed era of 1987-1993, sales were still healthy, in some cases, there was a lot of sharp increases, especially with Venom's debut.

Wishing you and yours a Merry Julyder-Man, Owen!

I can't express how much I love Ultimate Spider-Man. Probably the best modern Spider-Man run.

"Ultimate Spider-Man" was my introduction to the character in comics as a wee lad, and in my opinion, this series is still the best distillation of the character - a manageable 160 issues with a very high batting average and an actual ending. I think its quality gets overshadowed somewhat by the genius introduction of Miles Morales.

You should make a video on JMS Spider-Man, he’s super underrated due to the love that Ultimate got at the same time

I started reading the original clone saga as a kid and it's what got me into comics. Blood Brothers part 2 was my first comic and I read and re-read that comic over and over again. I loved it. Ben was already Spiderman, Peter was de-powered, and I was so interested in putting the story together. I'm not blind to the problems in the story and the some bad art, bad writing at times, but overall, I still love the clone saga. I've always felt it was a great idea only hampered by writers and editors who had no idea where they were taking the story. I own it all now on trade, as well as the original issues, and will still go back and reread at times. This ComicPop guy is certainly welcome to feel the way he does, I would not invalidate that, but calling the clone saga creatively bankrupt and that nobody was asking for Marvel to return to it, I think is just so close minded and wrong. It's still my favourite thing in comics when characters like Ben Reilly or Kaine show up. I would buy a Kaine centered comic so fast! While I hate how Ben was recently made a villain, I'm still invested in his character, one of my favourites in all comics.

I loved the Ultimate Clone Saga. It was really only the Clone Saga in name only,and that was surely the only way it would have ever worked. The whole thing reads like a fever dream that the Ultimate Peter Parker is having. There were several points in the story where I was thinking,"There's no way that all of this is real and will affect anything once this story is finished." But it WAS actually happening,and it DID change the book's status quo after the fact. It was shocking and really cool,and there were no retroactive continuity rug pulls. All sadly rare occurrences in the world of comics.

I wonder how many times Owen has said "contemporary reimagining"

I remember when I first bought the volume as a kid. This Arc and the venom arc are my favorites Arcs in Ultimate Spider-Man’s run.

I remember the Clone Saga seemed to go on forever! I got through about half of it then stopped buying the comics. Though even that first half I was still buying, I barely really read. I just kept collecting in the hope that they would move on soon. Luckily the animated series gave me more of what I wanted from Spider-man at the time.

Not gonna lie, I’ve always loved the idea of Ben Riley being the original Peter Parker and having Peter live happily ever after with MJ and press forward with Ben Riley Spider-Man. I don’t think having Peter post-original Clone fight being a clone makes him an imposter or invalidates anything, he’s still the character you followed all of those issues later. If only it was part of a better/more focused story, I think it coulda been great!

I remember an unintentionally funny momment at the end, where the X-men arrive full in costume to help, they realize everything is being fixed, Kitty asks Professor X to erase Aunt May's memory of being Spider-Man, Professor X is like "nha"

Venom and the clone saga were two of my favorite arcs in Ultimate Spider-Man. Love the series and hope you make more videos on it

Great video! The Ultimate Clone Saga is in some ways the true fulfillment of the promise of the original 90s story, one that didn't have to deal with tie-ins or shifting creative teams.

I love the ultimate clone saga of ultimate Spider-Man it was really awesome and gave us a great character with ultimate spiderwoman who was really awesome and badass.

Kinda glad Bagley got his redemption on the clone saga, he probably got hated just for doing his job

Awesome collaboration! ComicPop is my fav channel & I always love your breakdowns Owen .

I absolutely enjoyed how they adapted the story and fixed things

Kaine Parker is the best clone & one of my favorite characters. I always wanted to see Kaine Parker "The Real Scarlett Spider" & Warren Worthington the 3rd Archangel team up

Great information as always, thank you.

Thanks for putting this together.

Great video Owen! Something that sticks out to me about the ultimate clone saga is that it seems like a one possible conclusion to the USM saga. Even though there is still one arc to go before Mark Bagley would depart, this 100 issue anniversary conclusion really caps off the series nicely. It is a large scale event with big ramifications to the status quo as you mentioned, with a happy ending for Peter MJ and Aunt May as well as a big final showdown with a major spidey villain (Doc Ock). Additionally, the finale of the arc includes all of the other main ultimate title teams -- the F4, X-men and Kitty Pryde, and even Nick Fury and the ultimates at the very end. If "Ultimate Knights" is the more grounded final arc of Mark Bagley's run, then "Clone Saga" is the last big blockbuster crossover. Of course, there would be many great USM stories after this, but it's a great place to jump off if you're looking to read all of the golden age of ultimate comics. It is very bittersweet the story ends with Kitty Pryde getting left in the dust by Peter...

Great episode and feature guest. This is why we and Owen love comics Ben Reilly is the real Peter Parker. I'll die on that hill

I really enjoy your videos! I read this story as it came out - before I read the 616 version actually - and loved it.

I'll never forget going into the library day 1 of middle school and seeing just about every vol.1 trade of the ultimate universe. Made going to the library awesome

Another great video all around!

The original Clone Saga started off really well. It's what actually pulled me into comics. I thought the twist of Ben Reilly being the real Peter Parker was good twist and allowed the writers to tell different Spider-Man stories for a year. The failure of the Saga came from how it handled Peter's return, and bringing back Norman. I also felt like the Lost Years stuff was to dark. They could have done a better job telling Peter and MJ stories during this time to further their bond, and then made that bond mean something upon his return.

Yes we got a Sal cameo!

With how messed up the Clone Saga became I’m amazed someone was even able to pull it off, I mean tweaking it maybe but fixing it feels like a tall order

To this day, I barely read any 616 stories, but re-read UU multiple times.

Ultimate Clone Saga wasn't one of my favorite arcs, but I thought it was pretty solid and had a good payoff. And I really appreciated how Bendis was able to re-work the characters so they made sense in the Ultimate universe.

Clone Saga was my and my Brothers Childhood, we absolutely loved the plot twist back then and even to this day I got fond memories of it. Thus it suprises me to hear that it has such a controversial.

I have no idea who this ComicPop guy but good lord he's talking about having to read a bad comic book storyline like it was legit traumatic.

9:11 there’s a blog out there detailing every detail of the making of the Clone Saga.

Glad to see a video on this and that it’s so comprehensive. The only thing good that came out of the clone saga in the 90s is that we got the character Ben Reilly. Beyond that, it was a convoluted mess. The 1977 Spider-Man TV series also did a one episode about a clone. Ironically, it was one of the few highlights that both fans of the show and critics seem to like.

I feel like the MJ goblin thing was a massive missed opportunity in the long run. There was a moment in the first issue after the UCS ended where MJ's hand is shaking, implying that Reed Richards' "cure" wasn't really all that effective. Like imagine Peter having to deal with another instance of that in the ultimate universe. That would've been a very interesting and gripping story to tell in it's own right. Good arc, but that just kinda bothers me.

I loved the Ultimate Universe. I've thought to go and collect all the TPBs of the runs someday.

Awesome video Owen 👍🏼👍🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 A little note about Ultimate Spider-Man, let's not forget it was actually Peter Cuneo (former Vice Chairman of Marvel Comics from 1999 to 2009, starting first as chief executive officer) that actually implanted the idea to relaunch Marvel Comics to Bill Gemas so the editorial could reach out new readers and that became profitable with the brand Ultimate as we all known well😎

There's a statement constantly made about the original clone saga that kind of annoys me. The statement that Peter being revealed as the clone ruined the story for them. That it made them feel like the stories they had read over the last what, 19 years, didn't matter because they were following a fake protagonist. How does Peter being the clone make him a fake protagonist? It's a statement that is saying that what matters is the circumstances of ones birth or creation not their actions. And that is a garbage belief. Because that's not what matters, because over those 19 years, if Peter was the clone he still did all those things, he wasn't a fake, being the clone makes him no less a person than Ben Reilly if he had been the real one. It's like the opposite of when they brought Wonder Man back from the dead and tried to do a love triangle between him, Vision, and Wanda with Wanda eventually saying, it doesn't matter that you are the original where Vision's brain comes from, Vision is still Vision. Whenever I hear someone who is a fan of comics say that following a clone, or a duplicate, or a legacy, takes away from their legitimacy of the character it annoys me. Yes there were lots of problems with the original clone saga, but Peter potentially being the clone was not one of them, because whether was the clone or the original, all those things still happened to him, and you still got to experience that journey with him. To say that him being the clone ruined your experience of the storyline says more about your beliefs than the story and the writers.

I have the full ultimate fun from Spider-Man #1 to Ultimate End #5.

Awesome video review I love bendis ultimate Spider-Man series he is the most influential spiderman writer of the 21st century. Will you cover more USM storylines and also miles morales

I can certainly relate to Sal tapping out due to a bad run. I grew up with X-Men and adored it all. Reading everything from the late 80's right up until the year 2000. Then came "Revolution", featuring the Goth and Neo. X-Treme X-Men and lastly, the abysmal Chuck Austin UXM run. That's when I walked away. It wasn't until much later I saw some all new trades - New X-Men and Ultimate X-Men (oddly enough). Both got me back in. Although I stuck with trades until the Hickman run started.

I think it might be good to have this story set put into a SPIDER-MAN cartoon show series someday. In addition I imagine that the title of the series might be titled as (MEGA ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN) or it might be titled as (ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN: EARTH-207). The reason why I imagined the title of (ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN: EARTH-207) is because the first part of ComicBook stories set came out APRIL 18, 2007.

I started reading Marvel comics thanks to Ultimate Spider-Man, really loved them. For me, this story was like a victory dance: We have done great stories for 100 issues, we can ever make you love one you hated.

I like Sal was turned away after the mid 90's clone saga and for a long time stayed away from comics. However around the time I had returned to that world and it was just after Miles Morales was introduced I started to catch up with the Ultimates line. When I got to this version of the clone saga I was dreading it (being pre conditioned from the last one) however I left it pleasantly surprised, streamlined and a better story with better set up it was a huge sigh of relief.

I still maintained the clone saga could've worked if the marketing team didn't take control of the story and messed it up badly really badly and personally I would've been all on board for Ben riley Scarlet Spider becoming the main Spider-Man and peter and Mary jane had there daughter Mayday parker spider-girl alive and kicking in the mainstream marvel universe but for some stupid reason marvel refuses to pull the trigger and just doesn't want peter parker and MJ be parents which is just and mess up on so many levels that it ain't even funny but just sad and depressing at least in my opinion.

My favorite part of the Ultimate Clone Saga is when Fury shows up to arrest Gwen and reveals all the Clone insanity, Peter asks, "Why aren't I in a coma now? Shouldn't my brain just give out on me now and just go into a coma!!?? My dad, my aunt, Gwen, this... Who can take this much #$%^ in one day???" It was a very emotional issue. So well done, like most of USM. Shame they tired of the character and wanted a black Spiderman, Miles Morales. And they decided to end the ultimate line.

A certified hood classic (both the story and this video 💙)

It’s incredible how the most underwhelming story was transformed into the most captivating story possible

Another Arc the Ultimate Universe adapted pretty awesome was Iron Man: Armor Wars in 2009

Ultimate Spider Woman is my favorite version

Can you make a video about the Founding Members of the Avengers? Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, Ant-Man and the Wasp?

peter david's revival of ben riley in the scarlet spider is pretty cool too

While I enjoyed the Ultimate Clone Saga, my favorite arc from this run is Spider Man first conflict with Doctor Octopus, which has many great moments, including Peter fight against Octopus and Kraven and the ending perfect capture the spirit of Spider Man stories with the hero saving the day in the end but suffering the consequences for his decisions.

22:15 What about the clone Tarántula? What kind of Parallel does It draw about the duality of the wall crawler?

Great video. But I expect no less. 👍🏻👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻🥇🥇🙂

Please consider reviewing SpiderGirl in the future. It's the best book I love it so much.

When someone can take a divisive comic run and not only fix it but make it better they deserve major props and respect. Also Ultimate Jessica Drew would resonate with current day issues if we ever get a live action adaptation.

This sounds weird and crazy but I love ultimate Spider-Man more than the main universe.

I havent read it yet, but I will, great work and congratulations for your work 🏆🏅🏆🏅🏆👍🥇😊🥇😊👑🎖👏🤗👏👏👏👏👍🏅🏆🏆

Clone Jessica Drew is my favorite version of Jessica Drew. Miles was so close to having a relationship with her in the comics. They pretty much adopted her interactions with miles into Gwen in into the spider verse

I'm definitely going to read The Ultimate Universe Comics Line. I already some issues of The Ultimates and Ultimates 2. I'm still trying to read The Ultimates and I'm going to read Ultimate X-Men, Ultimate Fantastic Four, Ultimate DareDevil and Elektra, and Ultimate Spider-Man: Miles Morales.

It's finally here.

Ultimate Spider-Man was one of my favorite comics. I love the series. But the one thing that bothers me about the entries series is, that entire timeline of the comic takes place within one year. From issue one to the Death of Spider-Man is one year.

The Ultimate Clone Saga remains one of my all-time Spider-Man stories! Great work from Bendis and Bagley. I loved the villainous mastermind and how they incorporated so many modern days ideas such as Peter's reveal of identity to Aunt May, giving Mary Jane and Gwen Stacy terrifying powers, and more.

*Hope the MCU films in a way adapt both the good elements of the Ultimate Marvel and mainstream Marvel versions of the Spider-Man:Clone Saga story arcs one of the next three future Spider-Man MCU films, along with the true-blue MCU film version of the Ultimate Sinister Six considering the many Easter eggs of the heroic Spider-Man Clone, Scarlet Spider in the previous 3 Spider-Man MCU films! That would be awesome!* :D

Ultimate Spider-Man is such a great run of comics, and I love to hear Owen talk about how much it means to him. And getting to hear from Sal was a nice treat, too!

I like to think it's because they took what was a neat idea and then a convoluted comic event and then decided to just stick with it being a neat idea.

Best Clone Saga in my opinion. Great video Owen!

I read the Clone Saga* as it happened I was like 10 when it started and I have to say it melted my adolescent mind and really pissed me off although nowhere near as much as One More Day. Till this day whenever I hear "Clone Saga" I upset and it also made the Jackel my most hated villain not just of Spider-man's rouges but of any comic book villain lol (*2nd run not Clone Genesis)

I was totally in love with Jessica drew. !!!

Crackin’ video Owen! I started reading comics in the mid 90’s and that started with Astonishing Spider-Man, the European reprint of The Amazing Spider-Man, Peter Parker: Spider-Man and I think The Spectacular Spider-Man. I remember reading the reprints of The Clone Saga and enjoying it, (I was a big fan of Judas Traveller!) especially the darker tone that Spidey was given. I remember Ultimate Spider-Man launching but never got around to reading any of, stuck to the 616 stuff (being a school kid I couldn’t afford to splash out on all the comics I wanted to read!), however with the recent reprint of the Ultimate Spider-Man omnibus I’ve started, some 20 odd years later and I’m loving it!

With stories like the original Clone Saga, One More Day or Sins of the Past it often seems like Spider-Man is popular in spite of Marvel...

Can you really call Ultimate Spider-Woman transgender? I think it is way more complicated than transgender. This is a young woman who was never biologically a male, but all her memories are of being a biological male. Way more complicated.

Fav of Maximum Cloneage is Scarlet Spider, costume so 90's lol

Great vid! Def getting a like 👍 from me!

They really despised that married.

This is a really good comic, if anyone is wondering. Definitely worth the read