Predictability isn't always a problem. If he ditches Skylar and ends up working his miserable job, that's a viable -- kinda tragic -- ending. If ends up working with Skylar's people and gets burned from his career and left out in the cold, that's also valid. There's nothing wrong with a story that shows you a character who is set up to be destroyed between two ends of a dilemma and then _is_.

I have a rule when I write. "It's never just one problem." It is very simple, but j find it always, always elevates the visceral reaction of people listening to my stories once they realize that. The second problem is what makes two simple problems a completely unique one

I like way that he looks as though he's seeing the story develop right in front of him when he looks up or off to the side.

He makes it make sense which is always appreciated. In essence he gave her a true representation of her story even without knowing much about her story.

My take-away is, Jeff Kitchen is a genius at formulating and expanding a story. In a matter of minutes, he wrote your entire story. WOW! I gleaned so-o-o-o much for my own story. I, no doubt, will need to rewrite my entire outline, and first chapter. wow! I feel he was actually picturing that story in his mind and probably forgot about the interviewer and that she was there, the way he kept looking up and using his hands. My goodness. I'd give anything to have Jeff's mind for just an hour. Too bad I can only like this once.

This guy is amazing! My whole direction in writing has been changed by watching this video. What an epiphany!

wow, he really ran with that one in an impressive way! good stuff. thank you both!

I have watched a lot of these kinds of videos. I think this guy is the best i have watched. He gets it. And he explains things very well.

Wow, I need this guy sitting next to me and help me with my script. He's so good o_O

First take away is that Jeff Kitchen is brilliant at expanding ideas. I was excited to realize I had already created a "3rd door" for my protagonist. Listening to Jeff explain why the dillemas in films like *Training Day* & *The Firm* connect with the audience gave me a few notes on how I should approach cranking up the drama.

This is great. I loved how you gave the outline so the guest could work it out live. This made for a great teaching lesson. Thanks so much. Learned quite a bit.

This is a masterclass. It's amazing watching his process. What an extraordinarily generous guy!

One of the reasons Derek got into IT was because he had been burned by relationships in the past. In IT you have stakeholders and computers and Derek knows how to handle them. Also being in computer security he is really keen on sniffing out social engineering attacks. He works with the people in his company on a very professional level and doesn't get intimate about anything. Until he meets Skylar. Even though he has a keen nose for fraud he is bewitched by Skylar because he has fallen for her. He opened him self up when he knew better not to do that. This would make for a great dark night of the soul.

He could then try to play her to bring down the company she is working for? Lots of possibilities.

Jeff gives 30 minutes of gold and then says "Is that helpful?" Haha -- YES! Excellent advice. Breaks things down simply and reassuringly to get a plot on the right track. I really appreciate this interview.

It's amazing to watch the process evolve. I take a lot out of the typical talk on how to make your writing better. But to see it in action is far more impactful.

These videos are pleasing to watch and the audio feels raw and real.. like your sitting there with them.

All of this makes sense to me, which is reassuring for my own process. Just need to be reminded you're on the right track sometimes.

i loved the way he explained everything

My current character drafting could use some of this. I can see them with much more impact. Brilliant, Jeff.

Watching this man develop an otherwise milquetoast character into something worth following is worth the time invested in this video. Brilliant!

This was incredible. One of my favorites yet!

Perfect! Thank you! Your discussion of the protag's "internal dilemma" helped me sharpen my story's outer and inner conflicts that, up to this point, were muddled and running into one another.

One of the very best! Thank you! Super helpful and practical.

More of a jeff kitchen!

Thanks Film Courage !

Predictability is really boring, in real life or in stories, amplify the dilemma, the magnitude, don't make sedative dilemma's where the audience says - "so what, who cares", the third creative solution decided on the feet, the story must have a powerful impact on the audience, they must be transformed, transfigured, never think the same way again, a great story must change the world, and the BEST ONES DO!!!! great lesson from Jeff Kitchen, thanks to FC.

Great video. That’s a great recipe from the kitchen!

Immediately bought his book after watching it

So if this is a real script, send me a message on you tube. The character of Derrick, or Derek if you want to use the form my father used to name my brother, is very much like me. I had a commodore 64, I was big into computers as a teenager, and today I'm a cyber security engineer. However, my life between those points was much different than "go to college, get job, work my way up in job." It was more windy with a military career in between. I think I could help with the idea. As I listened to the whole video in my car on my way to work I kept thinking of different ways to move the characters, depending on the genre. Just a thought.

Wow, this guy is amazing!

Brilliant! Learned a lot watching this.

The Firm ends quite differently in the novel, and I prefer that ending. It is also a 'third way out'.

Interesting story, Jeff Kitchen is brilliant. Out of the blue expanding the importance of dilemmas as part of a story in such a short time, clear thinking, but also in principle describing the issues of human nature in a very touching way. Simply brilliant. it could be an amazing job to describe and develop the magic involved in Skylar's atraction without clichés in outrageous ways and make the reader so interested to help creating ideas for the third option with his own imagination. And surprise him!

Masterful impromptu storytelling skills !!!!

The training day analogy/analysis is awesome

I think the more eviseral transition where the dilemma comes to a crux is when he discovers at the end of Act II that she has been manipulating him. So we, the audience, might know / suspect that she's dirty, but the series of security breaches at work & the blossoming romance should be fairly separate story lines until late. Thus his work life comes into conflict w his personal life and his inability to solve the IT problem is shown to be directly related to his off-work activities. This whole thing has been about Derek's dilemma, but another option is for HER to be an unwilling pawn in the situation. Thus Derek might he able to rescue her from them (thus salvaging their relationship) & turn the tables on the hackers at the same time ala Luke turning Vader from the darkside. In the final scene, the cards are revealed to show the reality of the situation which could be 1 of several different scenarios depending on the writer's choice. A) She lied. Her sad backstory was made up. B) He lied. He used her to get the hackers. C) Her handler is her husband. Her relationship was a lie. D) He lied. He paid her husband to hack the company to steal a billion dollars, but now he's double crossing them so they get nothing. E) etc.

These interviews are great!

this dude is good - so great watching him brainstorm

This was very helpful. Thank you. Mr. Kitchen is brilliant.

I loved that he mentioned The Firm as an example of the protagonist creating a third path, after being stuck between the problems of the two “right and the wrong” paths, they break a new door between them

Great live masterclass

Very good lessons learned. Thank you guys

This was a fun exercise the interviewer offered. I played along while Mr. Kitchen provided his analysis. So enlightening. I see others did the same thing. I came up with the idea that The Woman and The Boss of the company are both close childhood friends that MC must choose between. The Girl disappeared in childhood, and has now reappeared as a corporate spy (though he doesn't realize it's her right away.) I think making MC's loyalty to the company personal works better in most cases. I came up with a whole history involving kidnapping, murder investigations, lying, near death, etc. HUGE core wound for MC. He only recovers his memories gradually and realizes that The Woman asking him to help her spy is actually The Girl from his childhood. Rather than being dead as everyone believes, she was kidnapped by her aunt to circumvent Family Court and rescue her from an abusive but charming mother. MC's powerful attraction to The Woman is due to this old, wounded connection. His loyalty to Bossman is the other side of that. Young Bossman convinced Young MC that the police suspected him of The Girl's murder, because in fact Young MC helped them escape - a fact he's forgotten through trauma. By lying to the police (an event which helped him discover his talent for manipulation) Young Bossman supposedly saved Young MC from prison. Meanwhile, The Girl's loss of her legal identity has led to her becoming a skilled corporate spy who trades identities like putting on a new set of sunglasses. This dilemma is nearly unbearable for MC. Only by discovering that he himself has been brainwashed by Bossman into thinking he owes him more than he really does, can he break free and make a choice between these two. And help The Woman recover her own sense of who she is. Meanwhile, the external struggle has to do with the nature of Bossman's business. I think making it quirky has comedic power. I see him as a portrait painter to the rich, very famous, the kind of magnetic guy who sells himself rather than his product. He also has art apprentices. His dirty secret is that he cannot paint at all. His students do all the work, and they can't tell anyone because he has them sign NDA's. They must teach themselves painting by doing all the work. Naturally, MC has signed one also, as well as a non-compete agreement. He loses his whole living if he breaks these agreements. It is hard to choose between methods of solving the dilemma. I think it's clear with this scenario that MC needs to choose The Woman. But he can't do what she wants, exactly, because he needs to help her escape a life that's unhealthy, an expression of lost self. Somehow he needs to keep juggling his relationships, stringing everyone along while trying to solve issues. I would probably have a lot of episodic problems with the students, the rich portrait subjects, and of course The Woman's and The Bossman's demands. I think MC would end up compromising a bit, doing a few things that both of them want him to do, until crises build up and he must get clever. I think before he could defeat Bossman, he would have to convince The Woman that it's time to change her life, and then the two of them could execute a plan together. Perhaps Bossman would even be OK with their actions once he realizes who she is. The key to that would be a wound of his own, I suppose, and some unexpected way that he's healed just by dealing with having his fake life and his power to manipulate taken away.

I love to see those wheels spinning, give him a thought and it becomes a story in his mind and he runs with it.

I luv that Jeff said it’s like he gets out of jail. That’s a great description. This talk is so helpful.

[31:49] - Fantastic example about Moral Dilemma & 3rd way out in the *The Firm*

This was awesome and I instantly had an idea to change the objective of my protagonist. Thanks!

If this movie got made I want Miles Teller as Derrick and Margot Robbie as the seductive Skylar

Dang! He really ran with that! And I love the "Is that helpful?" at the end there. XD

Perhaps over the course of the movie theres a change in his personal character and he decides to do the rite thing. He leaves his corrupt company/career and also leaves the woman he loves because he realizes that she was just trying to use him. basically loses everything and moves far away. The girl is so surprised and enamored by his decision and finds out that she has actually fallen for him. in the last scene we see the guy working his simple shaved ice bar in a tropical location. someone places the help wanted sign on the counter...he looks up to see the girl he loves...Romantic comedy ending...

More like Jeff HOUSE! This guys got it all!

Great advice!

Great stuff

I like this because im working on something similar to this

Wow! Jeff Kitchen ladies and gentlemen such profound knowledge in storytelling.

Make her truly fall in love to him as well and then that's how you make the conflict more realistic and stronger and in the climax both of the companies are going after them and then make them run away together. In the resolution something happened between the two companies and now they're free. The final picture is they both have different jobs now and have made a family of their own.

The jack metaphor made my day.

this man is a wizard!

Thanks.

Derek wants to play along with Schuyler because he's interested in learning how much complexity she has to offer; he enjoys the potential challenge. As they become more entangled, he finds she's actually the pawn of a bigger player, perhaps a mastermind of corporate espionage.

She wrote "Paranoia" with Harrison Ford and he made it into a great love intrigue💪🏾 I give respect when respect is due.. RESPECT, that was dope

Thanks!

The idea reminded of Ex Machina. The computer programmer is a pawn in a game of manipulation.

this is so cool to watch

These Rock!

This is how you should write. Just sit and get into it, get high, whatever, and just let your mind wonder. The physical part of typing is manual labor, THIS is the creative process.

I want a podcast where people come on and tell interesting stories from their lives to Jeff Kitchen and then he breaks the stories down structurally

Professional (and/or ethical) integrity pitted against internal desires (either money/greed or lust.)

The guard-dog personality he describes reminds me of the "fixer" character in Hail Ceasar. (What a great film!)

Reminds me of one of the greatest short stories ever, New Rose Hotel😭😭😭

Very cool interpretation. I wonder if Derriks resolution of his dilemma can become a love dance with Skylar, making it more of a romantic nerd comedy :)

(around 27:10) I I will need to rewatch this bit again, because I don't quite get the bit about everything going wrong/everything going right but that being the worst possible outcome. Nevertheless, I really liked this talk. I feel like it helped me a lot. I specially enjoyed that his teachings came from a general story idea, instead of just telling us the techniques without applying them to a story. Thank you so much!

I think the best way to inflate the adventure part of the dilemma, is that Derrick lost his wife, and has been avoiding moving on. Skylar broke him out of that rut, so he becomes loyal to her even though she is playing him. If his weakness is arrogance, then he might try to outmaneuver Skyler, then this will let him betray his loyalty to his company, while thinking he is engaging espionage for the betterment of both Skyler and the company.

Suggestion to avoid spoilers. When there is an spoiler alert it would be great to add a text info in the video telling in what time spoiling ends.

This isn’t a story. It’s just a situation. What’s the premise, what’s the point of the narrative? A story must illustrate a premise. Otherwise all you have is one thing happening after another after another after another.

What was the movie call, Fern? I'm trying to look for it but this guy bring so much value in stories and characters I don't think people are going for nowadays, awesome insight

I just recently found your channel - but do you do these questions often with your guests? I found myself replaying the first 1:30 minutes, finding more and more angles to develop the story - and bouncing my ideas off of People in the biz is just great fun and a valuable exercise!!!

I know the video is old but o got to thinking about the characters. I could easily see him deciding to go on a fall arc and going down a path with her, only to find out that the rivals companies motives are even worse, making him stuck 2/3 of the way into this, no way back and too far in, then getting stuck having to make this choice to lose it all or fall completely.

Is it more believable for the audience if Derek is revealed half way through to have know from the outset that Skylar is working for others? So he knew he was going to be betrayed but is faced with the choice once he understands her better? Parallels The Thomas Crowne Affair and Point Break. How does the audience feel about a character if they forgive someone who betrays them? Thanks for a very enjoyable listen!

Great

love this, i was just listening to a podcast about people who companies hire to hack their own facility and test their security. theres alot of veeery interesting material in their that will work sooo well with this story. its a take on deception i've never seen before honestly and with how clinical i'm imaginning it. i can only think of it as a fincher movie lool. Also the skylar deception thing has to be an absolute stealthily exeecuted sneak attack on the audience, like we sshouldnt see that coming at all. The main character should be up to his nose solving another problem that we are interested in seeing him solve then baam! it turns out his love interest was a sham, i mean omg very embarrassing to watch a character go through that honestly lool.

The genre seems most like a forbidden love story, like Romeo and Juliet going behind their parents back. Speechless … with to speech political speechwriters working for opposing candidates. The Thomas Crown affair 1999 …. with an art thief and a lady involved with museum security. You got two people wanting to be together, but you’re not completely sure if you can trust the one you’re with, because they work for the opposition. And then there’s the question of betraying the side you were supposed to be on. There is your conflict and dilemma.

good sting reference

Awesome interview. He got me thinking maybe Derrick had been burned in the past by a woman. It isn't going to happen this time though - or so he thinks. He sees an opportunity in his dilemma to be the bad boy for the first time in his life. And he thinks he can change skylar. But he's still smart. He betrays his company and gets the life he wants, but doesn't get the girl. Maybe when he realizes this, he betrays her to take her position as guard dog for the people she used to work for. I wrote this half way through the interview so he might go that way, lol.

All your comments so old here , let me refresh the section a little bit , when Jeff describes Derek and his character , what comes to mind is The Ozarks , Matt of The Ozarks

I'm thinking of Derek not caring about anything just to be with Skylar is sad. That is a story arc you need to change and make a happy ending. I think the story needs Derek to care about 'what is at stake' with his life to intensify the problem. A realization of what makes a man really happy. He needs to find out what life is really all about. Adding romance is telling us that romantic love solves everything. But i think it is deeper than that. If i am the writer, i will add a ticking bomb, maybe a terminal disease to push him to live a happy life. That is better than boredom as a catalyst. Maybe the medication causes him to hallucinate. :). Maybe Skylar doesnt really exist. And maybe a backstory explaining why he chose to stay in that stagnant world of IT because no one can force anyone i believe. Skylar is an embodiment of someone in his unsettled past. We know he can leave the IT world if it bores him. It is not really a problem. And romance is not enough solution. There is no life and death situation and real 'at stake'. It is a rebirth story of Derek.

Another example is Sampson and Delilah. In the end Sampson eventually killed many in the temple, his enemies, while he perished with them as well. The end was tragic and yet triumphant for Sampson’s people

What are your main takeaways from this video?

This is beggging for some big twists/reversals. First, the "company" is the NSA and the rival company is the FSB (for highest stakes, something lesser for not-highest stakes, but I'd still make it super-high, like a pharm company Derrick words for has the cheap cure of HIV). Derrick turns it on them, uses her knowledge to get into their system. These are very smart people, and they keep jumping two steps ahead of the other, so the audience is always surprised at the cat and mouse game. One reversal is she's actually working for the Chinese, not the Russians, and she's trying to screw everyone up, not just Derrick's side. But all along, Derrick has some secret too. And of course Skylar has to do this because back in China, her child is being held and is at risk. Otherwise, no way would she. I'd think a lot about Skylar and her motivations and "what if this is her movie" to inform how I'd develop Derrick's story. If it's the pharma company instead, a big plot reversal would be, Derrick discovers that his employers have this, but they aren't going to bring it out and do it cheaply so that Africans can be treated; that they're all about profit. And Skylar is African-American, not many generations removed from Africa, with a brother who is a doctor there.... (But I'm a novelist, and probably don't know what I'm talking about, but it seems to me that "a company" needs to be really increased from "some company" up to life and death stakes.)

Question 1: What genre is this? Romcom? Thriller? Action? Drama? Q2: Is this a feature film, indie film, short film, show, 90 minute stage play, 120+ minute stage play, novel, short story, or something else. (An issue I’m seeing is that this could easily end up as a short film because there just isn’t much potential for hardship unless you really milk it. Dramas in and of themselves ate already hard to get produced if you don’t have name (in film)). Q3: What is your goal for this story? What are you trying to make the audience feel by the end? Q4: Where does the actual story begin? You started with a backstory, but I’m not sure where you intend to place the first scene. It should be as late as possible. Q5: What does your main character want to achieve at the beginning and how is he showing that? These are the kinds of questions you must ask before monologuing for 25 minutes straight. Honestly you should never monologue for 25 straight minutes when giving advice to someone sitting right in front of you. Talk WITH the person, not AT the person.

Derek has to value his dream job, so that when confronted by an alternative that he never expected, and one that is potentially dangerous, he really has a major dilemma. Does she really love him or is she just playing him? Does he risk his career and jail for her? Maybe the only way he finds out is when she reveals all to him and tells him that it was all a plan and that she can't go through with it. What about if it turns out that the company that is paying her is funding her mother's essential heart transplant and that if she fails the mission her mother could die. Perhaps Derek uses his computer skills to undermine her bosses and figures out a trick to syphon a lot of money out of her bosses 'black ops' account, enought to fund her mother's operation. The two stay together and Derek is promoted for his loyalty to the company.

Her story did need more dilemma and motivation for her protagonist. She had him laying down too easy. - but his head strong can’t get past me attitude did not fit with her story as she described it.--I would instead make the dilemma about loyalty. If this was his dream job and somebody gave him his chance, he shouldn’t want to betray them, even if he is bored. And what if there were consequences like people getting hurt or losing their jobs. All that could be one side of the dilemma. Then on the side where he’s in love with her, maybe he sees something of himself and her. Maybe she confessed her deception because she feels for him, or he saw through her. But either way he senses that she’s somehow trapped the same way he feels trapped in his job. So he wants to be with her but how can he make it work with them on opposing sides at rival companies? Could be like the movie speechless 1994

This man is a bit of a genius.

Can I find conflict tips video from many professional Screenwriters?

He sounds like the creator of the world the scientist gets disappointed in. There's no one thing to point at without touching others, it's all possibilities and a huge network of pathways. P.s. The third path, yes. Thank you.

Bookmark 19:16

What if he makes a decision but can't stick with it? (Other problems that come out of nowhere should be foreshadowed; nothing should truly come out of nowhere)

What if he hides out in the Cayman Islands but only until the statute of limitations is up, or some other time limit is up?

in story, try to elevate the tension ... so for example, those who are using Skylar as a manipulative tool intend to destroy the evidence and plan to have her killed along with their mark. She thus ends up working with the techie guy to turn the tables on them in some way.