Correct! :)

I thought the same at first, but the rules are trying to be broad reaching. You can counter act afflictions and items, and their counter act level is half the item level; they don't have a spell level.

Yes, the original version used an image of the Sorcerer's version of Counterspell, when it should have been the Wizard version. That's the only difference.

Correct!

Damn, I forgot about the level difference. I almost got it right after the 5th viewing lol

Ooooh for a second I thought she only needed an 8 since the DC was 28 and Kyra has a modifier of 20. The spell level was 2 higher though.

Wow... I have no idea how many times I watched that example while making it, and just had to watch it TWICE more before I noticed those goofs. Congrats on critically succeeding your Perception check! (or I crit failed mine). LOL I'm noting the mistakes and will correct the next time I need to republish (maybe after the Gamemastery Guide comes out). Thanks for the help!

@@HowItsPlayed Thank you for your kind words, dear sir! Happy to help! ;)

For the quiz. Counteract level is 6 Counteract DC = 10+3from int+4expert+11from level, total = 28 Remover dude Counteract level 4 (spell level) Counteract mod = +5from wis, +4 expert and +11 level. Total of +20 mod If he roll crit success (18 or more) for total of 38, he can remove this cursed. Otherwised nope. Thanks :D

2 month passed, and i came back here again lol

You're welcome!

The way I understand it, is that the onus on rolling goes to the effect that is specifically trying to thwart something else. Detect alignment isn't a counteract spell, and would normally fulfill a function unopposed. Nondetection is a spell made for the express purpose of counteracting, and only functions on occasions when a counteract is necessary, similar to a counterspell.

Thanks!

Thanks!

I know what you mean. In my games I've gotten to the point where if the counteracting effect is higher than what is being counteracted, I don't bother with any rolls and just call it an automatic success. And if it's close, and I don't want to bother with calculating DCs, I have them roll and as long as they don't roll really low I give it to them. Anything to move the game along.

@@HowItsPlayed Sorry I didn't mean to imply your video is bad, they are GREAT and super valuable. The dense rules surrounding countering are dumb :)

@@jkernodle ​ No worries! I didn't take it that way. :) Counteracting is one of those areas I think they REALLY could have simplified things.

That's correct. Rules as Written, you could not counter with a Cantrip.

@@HowItsPlayed Thanks very much, and thank you for such a speedy reply! What a guy! :D

Holy crap I would never have thought of this. Very useful shortcut, once I wrapped my head around it. Only problem I can think of with this is that if they're different levels and/or have different proficiencies, it'd get a lot more complicated to think about, at which point it'd be easier to just calculate it normally

Sorry for the headache. I guess it's part of the learning process. :) You have the Counteract Levels, but might want to take another look at Counteract DC (10+Ability Modifier+Proficiency Bonus) And Kyra's Counteract Modifier (Ability Modifier+Proficiency Bonus) You are correct that it requires a Critical Success. But you may want to think about what number has to show on the die for that to happen.

@@HowItsPlayed You're right, my math is all wrong since I forgot to add their levels. Let's see if it adds up now: Kyra Counteract Mod is (+5 Ability) + (15 proficiency) = 21 Kobold Spell DC is 10 + (+3 Ability) + (15 proficiency) = 28 Kyra needs to roll a 17 or higher, I believe.

@@Meepletlan You almost have it... double-check the math for Kyra's Counteract Modifier.

Correct! :)

Thanks!

So any answer on this one ? How to counteract with items ?

When you use the counterspell reaction, it uses the spell slot prepared but doesn't actually cast the spell. So in the Magic Missile example, you're not casting Magic Missile to stop the enemy's Magic Missile, you're just using the spell slot to attempt to counterspell. In my headcanon it's like the Wizard is familiar enough with the tiny details of the Magic Missile spell (since they studied/prepared the same spell that day), so they know exactly what the Hobgoblin is doing as soon as they start casting it, allowing the wizard to react in time and expend energy to counterspell it. They use the studying they did of the spell in their preparations that morning to negate the effect in a fast enough and easy enough way. That's just how I flavor it in my head though :)

Yeah, this one's a little counter-intuitive. But the way the rules are viewing it, the "acting party" is the one who is using an ability to grant a Counteracting effect. Per the text of Nondetection, it is the ability that counteracts Detect Alignment. Detect Alignment does not. And you cannot make a Counteract Check unless you have an ability that grants it.

@@HowItsPlayed Gotcha! Thanks for clearing that up for me, sir. I intend to start running PF2 soon and your videos have been an immense help in helping me understand the system.

Glad to hear it!

I know it's been 3 weeks, but cantrips are automatically heightened to the highest level spells you can cast (your level halved, and rounded up)

The 1st fight in the 1st PF2 module (HellknightHill) is fighting a fire and little information is provided but these mechanics seem intended exactly for this. Players try to put out a fire with water. The GM is forced to improvise. In this case, I made the players roll a d20+[Water Amount]+level vs DC 10+[Fire Amount] for a 10x10 area. Bucket of water amount might be +5 and campfire amount might be +5. Waterskin amount might be +0 and bonfire amount might be +10. An experienced opinion would be great. Thanks.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I think it's fair to say that in general the person performing the action is the one who rolls, but in this case it's a little different because one of the requirements to counteract an effect is you must have a feature or ability that allows you to do so. The Detect Alignment spell does not grant the user the ability to counteract anything. On the other hand, the sole purpose of Nondetection is to grant the ability to counteract things to its user. So Ezren is the one making the roll. When I was speaking about Stealth and Perception the main thing I wanted to get out of everyone's head was the concept of contested rolls. Because a lot of people are used to making a perception roll to contest a stealth roll, and that's not how it works.

Interesting. Thanks for clarifying that! I appreciate it! To continue my understanding, the counteract level is what will allow more powerful (i.e. higher level) casters to break through lower level casters. However, only if they have heightened the detect spells to sufficiently high enough level? A 13th level caster who casts a detect spell against a 5th level character, if they heighten the spell to seventh level, cannot be negated by the 5th level caster? If so, wow. That really shifts the ability to defend against magic to a much higher level. Of course, on a practical level, the 9th level caster using a fifth level spell still requires a critical success by the 5th level caster and the DC is around a 26, a tough roll for the 5th level caster who might have a +12. Again, my thanks!

I believe RAI is you can counterspell cantrips but you still need to expend a spell slot to do so, and the counteract level of the attempt is the level of the spell slot used (and not the automatically heightened level of the cantrip).

@@HowItsPlayed So you couldn't counteract cantrips with cantrips. It probably would be too strong that way. Though when another character's life is at play, a spellslot might be worth being used.

Yes, any spell can be heightened (cantrips are heightened automatically). The "heightened" entry lists anything that is changed due to heightening besides its level.

@@HowItsPlayed are you sure that's correct? @11:25 I don't think that's possible unless: 1) non-detection is his signature spell or 2) he knows the level 5 version of non-detection (besides the level 3). You can't freely heighten spontaneous spells like in D&D 5e.

I believe the counteracting rules are the same.

In 2nd edition Cantrips aren't "Level 0". They're just... cantrips; which are a special kind of spell. And they are cast at 1st level and then heighten automatically like any other. So, you'll cast Cantrips as 2nd level spells when you reach 3rd level, as 3rd level spells when you reach 5th, etc. The easy "Rule of Thumb" is you cast Cantrips at the same level as your highest level spell slot (although this doesn't always work... for example, if you get your spells from an Archetype).

Yes! It would be 1d20 plus the monk's spell attack bonus vs. the poison's DC (which should be included in its stat block). Then you need to compare your counteract level to the poison's. Your's will be the level you cast Wholeness of Body at. The poison's will be half its item level or the level of the creature applying it.... or, if it is caused by a spell, you use its whole spell level. On a success, you remove the poison if its Counteract level is no more than 1 higher than yours. On a Failure, you still remove the poison if it's Counteract Level is lower than yours. On a critical success you remove the poison if its Counteract Level is no more than 3 higher than yours. And on a Critical Failure you fail to remove the poison regardless of its Counteract Level.

Basics4Gamers thanks!!! That’s great clarification and confirmation on how it functions. :)

@@jwmerrow2144 You're very welcome. Happy Gaming!

If you see (or hear) someone casting a spell, and you have it prepared or it's in your repertoire, then you automatically recognize it (no actions needed). Otherwise, you need to make a Recall Knowledge skill check with Arcana, Nature, Occultism, or Religion to identify the spell (see page 305).

At the GM's discretion, an Identify Magic check might inform you what the level of the effect you want to counteract is.

I think unless it states otherwise the counteract DC of a disease is the same as its saving throw DC.

@@HowItsPlayed Cheers. That's what I thought but being new to the game wasn't sure.

You can find the info on Proficiency on page 444. Basically, if you're Untrained you get no proficiency bonus. Trained, you get a bonus equal to level+2. Expert is level+4. Master is level+6. And Legendary proficiency is level+8.

No. You know the rules are in depth when someone makes a video that talks about 3 different applications of a rule. The rule takes no time at all to implement. If you like to have to make up rules because your system you pay money for books for doesn’t provide it then go ahead. But you can still homebrew in 2e if you don’t like the rules, but you shouldn’t be afraid of having to learn something. I wouldn’t be supremely if you are coming from 5e while not ever learning or understanding 5e’s stealth mechanics for instance.

He mentions in the video that the campfire example is just to illustrate the rules in an easier to understand way, you wouldn't actually have to do any of that to douse a campfire in game (thankfully)

The system is there if you deem it needed to adjudicate a scenario and you so not need to use it when you do not require it. I much prefer this to the “figure it out in your own” approach to some systems.