As a GM I dont force my PC to give me any kind of information about their characters other than information that fits in a single sentence. But I try to reward those who make the efford to write something up.

I must say, I had experienced GMs justify horribly butchering Players Backstories with such Statements as you made - and yes, I know, this is a Fail and not meant. Just say it to clarify why I get a bit of an itch hearing this, even though it is mostly correct. For Example, I have good Experiences with an "writing Backstory whilst Playing" - but that needs Players which can handle this. I, for myself, like sometimes to fill in that sudden "Have learned that somehow" when it comes to justify "Leveling Up" in terms of Plot. But yeah, it has to fit into Plot and World, it is under no circumstances a justification for "sudden additional Extra-Bonuses". This Players must be ok with you bringing up Things and need a lot of communication between Player and GM out of Play. I like to include my Players in my Plotting - like "If you want a specific Item, I can make an Advanture for it how you get or got it". If you like a specific Session Theme, say it and we can look up to make it work out. So, I think Backstories are important, nut not a necessity - like the Party having a Drifter among them who travelled a lot and came by from Day to Day. Now, he kinda bonded with the Group and seeks to stay around. If a Player do not provide a Backstory, I will as GM - but, it will be just a "common average Backstory" for his Char. Everything else is up to be made "on the Go", and the only rule here is that he can not have something as Backstory what his Char did not have or could have had before but lost it somehow. This goes well with Players who like to play Prewritten Chars and not their own Creations (which does not say the Playrer is "bad" or something - most of this Players like the interaction, the dynamics of the Game between Players among themself and towards the GM. Basically, all can go and no GM "need" to enforce his Players to have Backstorys - as long as the Way it is handled enriches the Game and does not break Immersion or Plot. One good example for this is one of my "Black Mages" from "The Dark Eye". Originally, he was meant as a Atagonist to my Elementarist, a Guy who can Summon Undead, create Hybrid Creatures, build elaborate Magic Riddles and Traps and can summon otherwordly Evil into the World - Classic BBEG. His only "Structure" was him originally beeing taught by the same Teacher as my Elemetarist, a supreme Summoner and Sholar of the Otherworlds who went away without anyone knowing. He is my Brother by blood, but none of them know as their Parents dies as they were Babies and they were raised different ways. Sadly, this Plot came never to be played out, as I stopped playing this Elementarist as he had become way too powerful to fit into the World by any means. So, I needed a replacement and started playing this "other Guy". GM and I went the way that he seeks "Absolute Power" to defy the Gods, which he dislike for "playing with Human Puppets". Basically, he had the same Capabilities as the former one, but with a darker Touch - ha does not use "Friendship" rather "Dominate" or False Memory". He does not summon Elementals, he summon Demons. He does not use small Elemental Homunculi, he summons undead. He became a Man with a Reputation fast - and later on, he became a known "Architect for Dungeons and Castles" for "Special Customers" - basically, the "new" GM asking me how I, the former GM, would design Dungeons. GM filled in "Meetings" with many "bad People" like the BBEGs we face which I know from former "Buisness" or have heared about. If the GM wanted to nerf me, he let something from my Past catch up to me like People that "want to get rid of the only one who knows who their Security works" and such. If we needed some extra Cluse because we all were thick as a brick he could use me like "Oh, you know, that reminds you of something from your Past....". On his Journey, he learned about every Sin and overcame it - just to, in the end, become a "Silent observer" and one who loves to ravel in Sinful Pleasures - which he lives out by stealing others Bodies, trapping their Souls and that Way living eternally on. He is a Protector of the People and that Realm, as he needs it for his Pleasures. After his "good Brother" twice failed to save the World and both Times caused great Magical Wars and Calamitys, in which one Violent Act causing the Next one in an endless Spiral, it was both Times him, who entrapped the Evil and became it seemingly, so the World can defeat "the Evil" and Peace is restored. That all from a mostly unwritten Backstory which was just about 3 Notes and nothing more.

I’ve always required backstories. I’ve found it makes a difference between role playing and rollplaying I’m happy to say I only got a -1 in this video, by not always limiting page numbers. Sometimes my players get carried away 😎

They are crucial to most RPGs that are party-centric. In a lot of TTRPGs, your backstory determines skill proficiencies, abilities and even personality! So, it is always crucial to have just a rough outline of their history.

I agree with most of what you said, however NPC's that are integral to the overall story, may need you to be fleshed out a little bit. Also, I apologise for my original post. I didn't realize you were being sarcastic. Peace.

Those are my favorite. Blank slate for me to right their story on.

GM again: Well, since you can't be bothered... Muhuhahahaha

I recently asked my GM if it was okay for me to say that my PC had amnesia because I couldn't choose between all the ideas that I had. he told me it was okay and I just wrote down what my character had lived since he "woke up" with amnesia. In our second to last game, my character recognised the name of an NPC and it triggered some dark memories. He went to see that man and asked him questions. I, the player, was shaking and really invested in my roleplay. I loved discovering my character's backstory with him, it's great ^^ Character's amnesia is not (always) a lazy solution: sometimes, it's just an incredible show of faith ^^

About, oh, 15 years ago, I ran a game (GURPS) in which one of the players couldn't be arsed to come up with much of a character, and spotted the "Amnesia" Flaw... Milked that baby for all it was worth, "All you know about your character is what you can see in the mirror." Turned out he was a skilled fencer - VERY skilled - with a phobic reaction to the rapier in his sword case, and had serious problems figuring out what the issue was... Later discovered that the character used to have a five-year-old son... That player's never made a character with memory loss again.

I did this but he couldnt remember the last two weeks instead, apperently it was legendary whatever he did

I was about to say something similar :)

I heavily relate to him in this video

"I didn't read that far, thank you Norman!"

Let's be honest, we ALL have had those players as GMs

@@remingtonwright6796 Yes! I died laughing at that part🤣

I agree with the sentiment, it sounded like "HA now your backstory is mine....i can add whatever i want" wich it sounds wrong. The example given was tame but inagine a dm saying "when you were young yoy mugged and killed an old man" Its the player suppoused to just sit there and take it? I think additions in the backstory that involve PCs actions should be consulted with the player. the last point is one that could go wrong very easily.

Yes, a common "critical mistake" is background abuse, where the GM forces the player to fit into whatever strikes the GM's fancy. A result of common GM failure: Trying to make the players fit the campaign. (Instead of making the campaign fit the players.)

I agree. Also I don't think most people would deny that the DM has control over a player's NPCs, the problem arises when the DM has said NPCs act contrary to how the player described them. No, the player doesn't get to decide what the NPCs do in a situation, but they do decide what kind of person they are.

Yeah I don't want to play your character. I want to come up with my own character to play

There are roleplaying systems, like both Fate and Fudge, that not only have mechanics for the "Make it up as you go" for both backstories and skills. (And Fate's system actually encourages you to do this with the players.) And it's normally a negotiation between the storyteller and the players that the storyteller kicks off with some sort of prompt. But, yes, the many variations of the "we're making up a backstory as we go along" can be problematic as far as players adding things that suddenly get them out of a bind that they didn't have a few moments ago. However, if you set a few ground rules, this won't be an issues, even for D&D. They can be like, "You get 5 contacts that we'll flesh out together as the game goes on. (The DM signals when we make up a contact.)", "The skills, stats, and info on your character sheet are fixed, so sudden additions to the backstory don't add anything new to the character sheets.", and "No heroic or epic deeds can be added."

Yes, there is a "What came first? The hen or the egg? ... erhm ... The world or the backstory?" -problem. I have seen quite some campaigns where it was nigh on impossible to start out with a good backstory, as the world was not revealed to the players at the beginning.

That's how i play mine out because i go deeper into their character the more i play them and decide yes she would have killed the baby kraken if it didn't teach her how to read. Or yes the kraken did in fact lean her very deep into the evil side but she's still innocent.

@@larsdahl5528 I solved this problem once by saying my GOOlock had amnesia. I thought it was a good idea at the time. And that was how I got to play Al Zheimer. Never let your fellow players name your character.

I also disagreed with guy saying you couldn't flesh it out in play, if my 12 year old nephew can do it without causing issues and adding skills then anyone can.

Sounds like you have already learned one of the most important parts of GMing. If having a positive experience, then so are your players. And if your players are, then so are you! Is a team game, playing together and respecting eachother is an incomparable game experience!

I have been GM'ing since 1994... and still learning with this vídeos.

@@eniobergamaschi A GM who thinks they know all they need to know is not a Great GM. A Great GM is aware that they can always improve!

@@eniobergamaschi similar boat. Since ‘89 Still learning, still having fun

Same, I want my character to fit into the setting.

A thousand times yes

Is there a good example of a good bullet point backstory out there that I can see somewhere?

@@Tusker2zero2 i wrote a timeline for my current character, listing significant events and people in each age range.

I write complete backstories, and then at the end I have a tl;dr that has a timeline of events and important moments for my dm to read. I use my backstory as a chance to get into the head of my character and get some writing practice. I have been told that the tl;dr has saved my dm’s from headaches

As a DM, I completely disagree

... and find another group / GM to play with.

Absolutely priceless haha

Yes…that was a goldfish comment.

So if all the NPCs in it belong to the GM, let the GM develop it. I try not to live in the past. The past doesn't matter, the future doesn't matter, only the present time.

Correct. Your PCs can believe whatever they like. I have a PC whose backstory is almost entirely false. The PC believes he has been hunting this terrifying combatant since they were young. In actuality, they have been that combatant (evil ancestor possession stuff) almost the entire time. The truth has been too horrific to come to terms with so their brain has created this alternate backstory. I can't wait until the truth comes out and shatters their whole understanding of their backstory. The best part is that they will still get the confrontation they are looking for, but it will be a mental battle personified as a physical one.

@@MrBeekhead that's cool but be careful you're not going to force the players character into being something that they never wanted to be, might make them feel like they're losing agency

@@MrBeekhead I've got something kinda similar I've cooked up for one of my players. Their character is a Catholic cleric that was abducted by Ilithid and stranded in Toril. They *believe* that they now have a deeper and more powerful connection to God than they've ever had before, as they can now cast magic with His will. In actuality, Yahweh was banished to Earth by the other gods because he was insufferable and always jabbering on about how he was "the one true god" and Asmodeus made a pact with Yahweh that gives sinner's souls to Asmodeus, but forces Asmodeus to essentially be Yahweh. Yahweh thought this was a clever way to trick Asmodeus to be "good," but as is always the case when you make a deal with the Devil, the Devil gets his due. Instead, Asmodeus tricked Yahweh and Asmodeus only has to pretend to be Yahweh if any followers of Yahweh escape Earth. Thus, Asmodeus is my player's God, not Yahweh.

@@NMahon I'm with you here - I think there's a ton of risk in "You're not really this badass who has been hunting the werewolf who killed his parents his whole life - you're just schizophrenic" - and I think there's a huge segment of players who would leave-the-table-hate that.

I know something I've done as a player is leave some backstory elements deliberately open ended like that, and my reason is that I actually want my GM to take that bit of control and make those characters. I've thought that would make it easier to fit into existing story plans. Would it be worth talking to them to see if they're okay with you taking some control, and maybe figuring out how much?

@@StompinPaul i firmly agree with you. Have done exactly that and the consensus was that they simply did not care. It was not a story element that they thought was important to them. So i threw my planning elsewhere. They are all pretty new players so i think they will realize how cool it is to have a backstory. Thanks for the advise!

Surely at that point, you talk to the player, "You mention that your character fell in love, tell me more about it? Was it controversial? Did it end badly? Why was it important?..." You'll get some more information that you can use later.

@@Tazymandius Agreed. "You loved and lost and you don't think your character is affected by it?"

If they dont come up with specifics, its perfectly fine for you to fill in the holes. Dont think of it as "taking control" unless you are taking player agency away. For example, if they said they fell in love with someone in their backstory but dont say anything more, then you have the right to choose the race, but you probably want to ask the player for the love interests gender and whether they ever acted on that love (ie asked them on a date). If they refuse to add details that you specifically ask for then they are giving you the right to make them up (by ceding their right to make them up). One issue the players might have is that they don't know enough about your world to make a backstory that fits in it. New players might not be familiar with fantasy tropes and may not be able to imagine the life of a peasant or duke in a world where monsters and magic exists. If this is the case, playing the game and seeing the world will help them make better backstories over time. Or they may not know whether your setting is high or low magick, how NPCs would react to their character, and whatnot until they see it. If this is the case, you can help them out by talking to them and/or giving them some info about the local area. You dont need to come up with a lorebook for them to read. Thats not a requirement for DnD. Try gtting them to talk with you one on one about their character. Alternatively, they may not be comfortable with the GM yet (or might know them too well). Some GMs ask for backstory and only use it to have bad things happen to the players. If you kill off every family member the player characters have the players will start making orphaned characters so as to reduce their vulnerability. If backstory just punishes the player than the player will stop making it.

Yeah, these are very limiting, sometimes self-contradictory standards that hardly work across a wide variety of tables.

A backstory _when you write It as the player yourself on your own time_ should be about... Half a page per level, I tend to say, or a full page If you're starting at level 2 or 1. And It should foremost be a summary of what has lead them to becoming an adventurer or a coal miner or a Paladin or whatever. If that can be conveyed accurately in fewer words, great - go for It. However, that's not your backstory. Your backstory happens when you sit down with your DM and you discuss. Okay, so your Paladin was stabbed through the chest when he was young and miraculously survived... You know what, what If instead he was resurrected by a Vampiric Deity after being stabbed through the heart, and your character Is her adopted son after the tragedy that befell his home? In which, the Player can go; Well, yes that's quite great, but you see I'm a Ragathelian Paladin which Is important due to his oath of vengeance... And then the DM just smiles and says that It's alright, and as you play the character you start naturally having a conflict of faith. You have Ragathiel, your patron deity - You wield his weapon and smite in his name... But he's never said anything to you. He's not saved your life like the vampire deity did at a sacrifice, he's not kept you safe through the absolute travesty of your past. No, he's been doing whatever an Empyreal lord does. And that's fine, you convince yourself. You smite in his name, but there's less fervor there. You start presenting your adoptive mother's holy symbol, your skin drains of colour as the now-vampiric blood that flows in your veins begins solidifying as you progress in levels, you're losing your faith - You're losing your faith to Ragathiel, but you're gaining faith in the deity that you know Is real, the one you have seen and the one that you know saves people. You are still a Paladin, but your methods drift. You start casting Death Knell because you consider It a necessity, you're steadfast in your faith, and you are no closer to falling than you were earlier. You're just a new breed of Paladin. A Paladin that slays in the name of the Blood Queen rather than vengeance of Ragathiel. You've tasted vengeance, and It was just not sweet enough. ^Current Backstory of a Pathfinder character I'm playing right now.

I do the same thing. This way I can sure it into a real story in the writing and the player still collaborates on it changing it. They enjoy reading it and sometimes sharing certain parts with other players.

Yeah, that part I disagreed with. Using the example of the surprise "turns out your mother was actually a terrible person to everyone but you", what happens when the player just does not want to go there? Do they reroll a new character? Also, if my one page backstory mentions I was raised by my poor but wholesome aunt of meager stature, and suddenly she's rich because you need someone with a castle in your story, it sounds like you mining backgrounds for more NPCs to shoehorn into your plot is more important than any impact those choices could have on the player and their character. Especially given that the player in this hypothetical didn't like that direction. Not saying you can never do that, but personally I would run it by the player, and would NEVER tell them "tough &$%#... I'm the DM so I'm doing it anyways". Realizing your relatives are actually jerks is something some players can roll with, but others it might turn them off their own character.

Exactly what had me checking the comments here, I didn't like that advice either but now many people seem to care I don't think comparing it to the adventure is fair either, because you can't simply railroad the players and call it fun, you literally have to accept players can go wherever and mess shit up but you don't have to mess with players' backstories _unless your own plan demands so_ and if it does then IMHO it is a shitty plan so you should know better and plan differently. The moment a GM were to just push something into my background like that without running through it first I'd be walking

I would say that the most justifiable version of this is if the change to the backstory is an in-universe shocking revelation. For example, Luke wrote in his backstory that his father is a dead Jedi, and the GM decided it would be more dramatic if Luke's father was actually a living villain who Luke merely THOUGHT was dead. Even if you're not going that far, there can be some fun roleplaying to be had if learning that your cool uncle was actually a serial con artist, or that your father was actually framed for killing your mother is something you the player did not know before the character did. That obviously requires a) the twist being a good enough story to justify the change, b) the GM knowing the players well enough to believe that they'll like the twist, c) the players trusting the GM's belief that the nonconsensual change makes the story better. Overall, Guy seemed rather dictatorial in this particular video.

@@hugofontes5708 For sure! PCs generally go in whatever direction you never anticipated so you definitely have to roll with it. I'm all for surprise events related to backgrounds being incorporated, but if the DM makes surprise fundamental changes that the player isn't comfortable with and they have no choice but to accept it, that's a problem.

@@michaelramon2411 I think your a), b), c) comment is basically how it should be. I'm not against backgrounds being mined for surprises or twists, but in the example Guy gave, the player in question was not comfortable with the change, and Guy's DM reply was basically "I'm altering your background. Pray I don't alter it further." (continuing your SW theme :P ) A DM's story should never hinge on retconning a character's backstory without consent and approval. As presented with the "aunt" example, the player didn't like the update but the DM went with a never popular "my way or the highway" reply anyways. So yeah... I'm all for leveraging backgrounds in interesting ways, but make sure it's something the player you're affecting will be ok with. Or at least build up to it :P Don't start with "your rich aunt invites you to her castle" and wonder why the player is getting defensive.

I think this is a good approach, especially because you never know what kind of changes might have an impact on the player because of their real life. If they had a mother that was snarky And that brings real things up for them that they don't want to be role playing, that's pretty important. And it makes it a lot easier to avoid conflict when the player isn't in a position where they have to either ignore discomfort with the change and have to continue RP or justify why they're upset about something to the GM after it's already happened as opposed to letting them know something would be upsetting

Yeah, that sounds like a bad DM. If you got in, there should be a way out. Sounded like the DM was bored and wanted out of the campaign.

You say "module", I assume this was a ready adventure I'm split between blaming the module and the DM But why would the thief take away the one rope you had and needed in order to leave?

@@hugofontes5708 The real question is, "why isn't an experienced party of adventures laden down with 200 feet of rope each? Hemp Rope, never leave home without it. ;) I still blame the DM.

@@jackielinde7568 yeah, it happens, specially when the party is new to the game

Welcome back!

Disagree on the last one though, you can set up events like “where where you when the death star blew up?” But don’t like taking control of players like that.

It is a concept included in some RPG systems. Often called "Prelude" (not session -1) if done with each player individually, or "Prologue" if with everyone at the same time, and are carried out between "Session Zero" and "Session One".

🥇absolutly!

Good luck! Are you going to do some Prelude/Prologue (GM-assisted character and backstory creation)?

Good luck! Are you running homebrew setting or some of the published ones? Or a mix? 😂

@@larsdahl5528 we are doing that on Friday. I won't be doing a session where we play it out, but I will be helping them because the world is homebrew.

@@nikkoquill it's homebrew. I have done a bunch of one shots in the past, mostly homebrew. I've actually found it easier to keep track in my mind, and imagination, if I am running homebrew. But I am not opposed to mixing in modules and just adapting them to the world if I get bad writer's block.

@@Atlas-pn6jv Nice! Same here. Good luck and have fun!

sometimes a DM just has to put their foot down. no multiclassing ever in my games without a well written DM approved plot reason. Same with feats.