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CNC Machined vs 3D Printed Cycloidal Drive
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2 жыл бұрынCheck out PCBWay CNC Machining services: www.pcbway.com...
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3D model, parts list and more details ► howtomechatron...
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Parts list (check website article for full list, affiliate links):
Amazon.com:
6mm Steel Cylinder Rod: amzn.to/3POEqfr
8mm Bushings : amzn.to/3Jnbk4x
Bearing 35x47x7 6807-2RS: amzn.to/3fATTgL
AliExpress:
6mm Steel Cylinder Rod: alii.pub/6f4xwg
8mm Bushings: alii.pub/6f4vt7
Bearing 35x47x7 6807-2RS: alii.pub/66b1tw
In this video, we will take a look at my new updated version of the cycloidal drive that I made in the previous video, with 19:1 reduction ratio and see how it performs made with CNC machined parts versus made with 3D printed parts.
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@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Check out my favorite 3D printers, the K1 Max: amzn.to/3txQUC6 or if you are on a budget, the Ender-3 V3 SE: amzn.to/3FkCPus I hope you enjoyed this video and learned something new! If you'd like to support me making more content like this, please consider supporting me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/howtomechatronics
@kaiseraugustus1393 2 жыл бұрын
@How To Mechatronics: Hello, I want to buy the Solidworks for Makers and use your 20% discount, but unfortunatelly the link doesn't work for applying the discount - do you have a discount code, which I can use?
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
@@kaiseraugustus1393 Hey, please check the links in the description again, I've just updated them with the special 20% off discount offer.
@joeboxter3635 2 жыл бұрын
Do you have a website with write up of this?
@Jerzeenana2024 Жыл бұрын
@@HowToMechatronics Hi.. Are you available right now?
@MrSniker-gg3fg Жыл бұрын
hey man i am expert in pcb designing so if you need my service i can work for you i need some work i do pcb designing multiple layers
@RandomCrap309 2 жыл бұрын
Those parametric equations would've been a HUGE help to me and my design team a couple months ago XD. We were using a lengthier method to create some 3-D printed cycloidal disks for a robotics project. Glad to see this method though! Saving this video for future reference :)
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Glad I could help!
@m.sierra5258 2 жыл бұрын
As both motors were skipping, I was really curious about the internal damage caused. Sad that you didn't show that. I'd love it even more if you would maybe replace the top with acrylic to see what's going on inside
@Flashbang_Photo 2 жыл бұрын
Skipping doesn't cause any damage, as is something steppers do exactly to avoid damage
@m.sierra5258 2 жыл бұрын
@@Flashbang_Photo I don't think the stepper was skipping, I think the drive was skipping. The only experiment where the motor was skipping was with the small motor and the machined drive. The backlash was too large for the motor to be the one skipping in the other tests, imo
@superdau 2 жыл бұрын
@@m.sierra5258 If this drive skips, it is permanently broken (as most gear boxes are). The skipping was the stepper motor reaching its torque limit and losing steps. Btw. that's not something steppers do to avoid damage, it's just something that happens when the torque limit is reached (which is defined by the current to motors get, which in turn is set by the stepper driver).
@m.sierra5258 2 жыл бұрын
@@superdau where does the max torque difference between the printed and machined box then come from? I don't see how the ratio would differ. Or is plastic just that much more lossy?
@_seriousrob_ 2 жыл бұрын
@@m.sierra5258 The plastic can't transfer all the torque to the stick. Some of the torque is lost due to the plastic giving up, as the damage at the end showed. Other materials than PLA might hold up better.
@chadjensenster 2 жыл бұрын
I made a cycloidal for the gearboxes of a robot arm for my capstone mechanical engineering project. They are nice because it's easy to have the reducer on the robotic arm and it looks good too. Great video. Thanks for taking the time and presenting it.
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, cycloidal drivers can be great choice for robotic arms builds.
@chrisnatale5901 Жыл бұрын
Going through the CAD design for a cycloidal drive was very helpful. Thanks!
@HowToMechatronics Жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful! Cheers!
@dekutree64 2 жыл бұрын
I tried SF1 bushings at one point too (and HK needle bearings before that), but nowadays I press PTFE tube into brass tube to make low-friction bushings whatever length I want and without any seam. Although it is fairly time consuming cutting and deburring a large number of tubes to precise length, even with a tubing cutter. And not all PTFE tubes are concentric, so it can be trouble finding a good supplier.
@PhantomBlank 2 жыл бұрын
A lathe may be ideal for that kind of precision cutting
@ToreDL87 6 ай бұрын
@@PhantomBlank Was gonna say that, get PTFE tubes with greater wall thickness, smaller ID bigger OD, machine, broach & sand to spec, so you get cheaper materials and greater accuracy, problem solved.
@beatfight1 Жыл бұрын
Greetings from the company that manufactures these gearboxes. 👋🏻 I work at Sumitomo Cyclo in Germany.
@HappyMathDad 2 жыл бұрын
I have been trying to make an almost 100% 3d printed planetary gear box with good efficiency. And I've already noticed a huge difference between gear generator softwares. I think that's how youtuber Paul gold got 30 Newton meters of torque out of a smaller stepper with a 3d printed cyclodial gear. Your measurements of a 1 to 3 decrease in performance Is significant. I would love if Paul measured the efficiency too. But beggars can't be choosers. Love the video!!!
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the input!
@Tom_videa 2 жыл бұрын
I think it would also help to use sturdier material for 3D printed parts. I personally use polycarbonate for these high stress parts, as PLA is softer and it can wear quite easily.
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the input!
@dzitiatri Жыл бұрын
What head and bed temp you are using on polycarbonate ? I am just curious to buy and try PC too
@Tom_videa Жыл бұрын
@@dzitiatri I use default Prusaslicer values, it works really well.
@adamrak7560 Жыл бұрын
Try carbon fiber nylon too, if you can. And you could probably do well with carbon fiber PETG, it is amazingly stiff!
@kaptn_kapton 10 ай бұрын
I startet printing polycarbonate and it works very nice! I use 110°C bed and 290°C nozzle and a polycarbonate sheet as print plate.
@wenbodong5717 Жыл бұрын
"it's a precision drive" then "let's grind it with a dremel" JK lol. Great work man!
@HowToMechatronics Жыл бұрын
😁
@eDRoaCH 2 жыл бұрын
this is a really interesting comparison. I wonder what the best of both worlds would be. If you just put the cnc cyclodial disks or maybe other parts in the 3d printed version I wonder if its power/weight ratio would beat out the other 2 alone
@aldobruno712 2 жыл бұрын
Many congratulations! how much was the cost of the CNC parts?
@Atomy111 Ай бұрын
Wow that's some crazy 3d printing on those dowel pins and screws
@christianedelmann6880 2 жыл бұрын
I used to work at a company that made those kinds of planar polymer bearing/bushings and they are almost exclusively made to be pressfit into a tight fit bore. Maybe a design iteration would be to get a ground thin walled tube and pressfit the bushes into them. Also those kinds of contact surfaces should be hardened and ground to a fine surface finish. Obviously not super easy to do but better gearbox life
@jBurn_ 2 жыл бұрын
first thing i noticed. Those bushings are not designed for his use. The "oversized" measurement is as it should be to have a tight fit. Even the inner diameter is too lose as long as they are not pressed into a bore. You can see it at 12:01 with your bare eye, that the bushings have radial play on the shafts...
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the input. Yeah I realized that a bit late, and also they ware easily available.
@DmytroVT 2 жыл бұрын
What is the cost of all CNC parts?
@AnthonyvanHamond 2 жыл бұрын
the fact he didn't disclose it in the video says enough :-) (he's sponsored. if he was not, it would have been extremely costly :-) )
@HX2003 2 жыл бұрын
I paid around 60 usd to make a single shaft coupling approx 50*50*25mm with them. I have yet to receive it though, I hope it will fit otherwise it would money wasted.
@marcus_w0 2 жыл бұрын
At this part count, I would guess around $600 to $1000 US.
@eatonasher3398 2 жыл бұрын
I'd say around 1500-2000usd (source: I'm a prototype machinist) The undercut of the main housing and the two flats on the eccentric shaft adapter add complexity to it. If you wanted the gears to be high precision then I'd recommend using 4140 prehard (versus jig grinding, which would be more accurate but much more expensive), not stainless steel. That way you could also use better/harder bushings (drill bushings) which would increase performance significantly without increasing cost significantly. Fill it up with some sticky grease and boom!
@jimmym2719 2 жыл бұрын
Ya, custom CNC is expensive. Unless u have your own.
@wrgates99 2 ай бұрын
I noticed a few times you had issues with the powder coating. You can specify that it should be to drawing dimensions after the coating is applied to avoid oversizing the part and keeping it to your tolerances in the drawing.
@stevebabiak6997 2 жыл бұрын
The housings on these should have some sort of mounting flanges on them; clamping them as was done in this video shows that the housings themselves move up and down, implying that all forces aren’t being transferred to the load.
@hypnoticatrance 2 ай бұрын
This is the best Cycloidal Drive i saw, so far.
@MukeshKumar-jw6ji 2 жыл бұрын
Nicely explained with a good project. 👍 I think CNC's product gives better results rather than printing machine. Printing machine's product are of PBC which are worne out at the rubbing areas and can malfunction due to clearance where as the CNC machine's product are of metal and by greasing it can give a better results in comparison to printing product.
@soscilogical1904 Жыл бұрын
This is really good because it tells me that it's a really nice design and it's far to many components to be a low cost solution for a budget product, which is good info.
@IcanCwhatUsay Жыл бұрын
You should definitely do a video on how you've setup your printer. Your prints are great looking!
@Niels_tenDam Жыл бұрын
U can use 3MF file format instead of STL. It can store more info with smaller size.
@DestructoXxShaunxX 2 жыл бұрын
I like how you say "distance ring", as opposed to "SPACER!!" @IvanMiranda
@ddegn 2 жыл бұрын
How To Mechatronics should be fined each time he missed an opportunity to say *SPACER.* It was still a great video even though there wasn't enough SPACERs in it.
@dragansolarov7875 Жыл бұрын
because it has low/zero backlash this type of mechanism probably can be used for star-trackers and guiders too.
@khroomlet8821 2 жыл бұрын
Beautiful motor! I've been looking for something for a DIY coffee grinder. How much did the metal motor cost from PCBWay?
@WATTWENEED 2 ай бұрын
Yeah installing bearings with a hammer might not initially show failure but the little dents caused in the raceways will wear the bearing out quickly
@oliverer3 2 жыл бұрын
I made the original 3d printed version of this a while ago and it served me well but it was an utter pain in the ass to assemble.
@cirdiam1800 2 жыл бұрын
Very good - thanks for making and sharing the video.
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@meistro32 2 жыл бұрын
Fill that gearbox with oil, see how much that will increase the torque. there must be signifcant friction with all those loose bushings.
@jamesquinn6662 2 жыл бұрын
Its be interesting to see a mostly 3d printed housing, bearing cartridge etc but with a cnc input and output shaft and cyclodal disk. Try and reduce some of the mass of the cnc
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, that's a good point. A combination of the two versions would be best solution for some DIY projects. The cycloidal disks are most important in this case I think and they can be made out of some metal material, in combination with some metal rollers.
@empatikokumalar8202 8 ай бұрын
What is the name of the device you used to measure at 0:29?
@TheInsaneupsdriver 2 жыл бұрын
you could add 2 more disks thinner and lighter at a 90 degree angle to the others for a superior longer lasting one.
@arkadyaminev 2 жыл бұрын
Помню этот редуктор ещё по советским альбомам редукторов, но только теперь понял как он работает.
@matthewmeans871 8 ай бұрын
after seeing the failure of the threaded inserts at 18:17, I had to look at my own design and question whether the inserts would fail for a 13 Nm application on the output shaft, however in looking back I realized that you only had the torque distributed on two pins for that whole load rather than the whole 6 pins available. This leaves me more hopeful? I'll comment back on this whether I get significant plastic deformation for my version as well.
@iforce2d Жыл бұрын
I'm amazed the wood beam didn't slip of the scale and smash into your knuckles
@HowToMechatronics Жыл бұрын
haha I've never thought about it. I guess it's all about experience. 😀
@Dane33781 2 жыл бұрын
You should lubricate the bushings and test again. You're losing a fair amount to friction.
@KhangNguyen-dn6nt 11 ай бұрын
I have a sleeping problem and this video have helped ;)
@raymondvaage2300 Жыл бұрын
Was it expensive to get those parts manufactured by PCBWay ?
@Dclxvi6x3 Жыл бұрын
I bet you would get different results if the motor was more secure. Those clamps still let the motor twist thus losing energy. Also a piece of steel instead of plywood should help 😉
@h3Xh3Xh3X 2 жыл бұрын
I wish you would include cost for each version
@superdau 2 жыл бұрын
I wold really like to see a comparison with a planetary gear of the same reduction (probably needs to be 2-stage). At the same outside dimensions a planetary gear would be a beast.
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, that would be an interesting comparison. I might make one. Cheers!
@sceiluug 2 жыл бұрын
i am wondering of there is also a reduction in noise in between them
@thomasmackay4 2 жыл бұрын
Regarding modeling technique; is there a reason why not a 0 to 2pi/(number lobes) and a radial symmetry by number of lobes? is that to avoid surface modeling lines? coming from a Catia V5 modeling experience. gap with a spline just irks me and probably is creating some odd tribology down stream.
@ReclaimerStudios Жыл бұрын
Perhaps having the drives filled with some transmission fluid might help with the gear slipping/damage.
@rameshkp7860 Жыл бұрын
Hi, You are great to teach about CNC. Congratulations.
@overlordmelon2325 Жыл бұрын
You could try using drill bushings instead, they are pretty accurate if a bit expensive. Otherwise if PCBWay is sponsoring you might as well just order some custom lol, I've ordered hardened 440C bushings from them and they came out quite accurate too.
@HowToMechatronics Жыл бұрын
Thank for the input!
@LiftedStarfish Жыл бұрын
Around throughout the video, you use the term "Interference fit". I believe the term that you were looking for is "Friction fit".
@Alfaduk 2 жыл бұрын
These cycloidal drive reduction drives are very interesting. I wonder about their capacity work at increasing motor speed. Essentially driving the unit from the output shaft, to increase the drive of the input shaft. An example would be a centrifugal supercharger where the input shaft might be driven to say 6000rpm, but the output might need to be 100,000rpm.
@noyza2132 Жыл бұрын
i think the backlash might also be because the pins are only fastened from one side of the disks
@MaxDetlefson Жыл бұрын
How much did the CNC version order cost?
@vilsonandrade8191 Жыл бұрын
Very nice project Congrats from 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
@ryanmckenna2047 11 ай бұрын
Could you do this with strain wave gear / harmonic drive?
@youtyba8274 5 ай бұрын
Для тех кто не знал это "Волновой редуктор" изобретён ещё в 1959 году.
@doverivermedia3937 2 жыл бұрын
Wow. I'm so glad I discovered your channel. Excellent resource and very insightful. Thank you ... 🇬🇧
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Welcome!
@Diskretisierung 2 жыл бұрын
the measuring was a little bit weak compared to your overall effort Love it
@Sam-dv3vt 2 жыл бұрын
worth waiting for your new video
@berenv Жыл бұрын
Very interesting video! I enjoyed it but cringed at how often you misused “nevertheless”. Your use of “however” is correct most of the time though.
@Acoustic_Theory Жыл бұрын
Just note that like Autodesk, Dassault Systemes has a history of offering "free" or "affordable" tools for "makers", then increasing the price as time goes along. It's not an offer that I would expect to last forever.
@enott 2 жыл бұрын
You are mechatronics Gladiator 💪
@johnathonwalty8915 6 ай бұрын
Great video. Nice testing experiments. 👍
@camiloguerrero4632 Жыл бұрын
Hola. Exelente proyecto. Quería saber si es posible realizar este mismo proyecto con la combinación de impresora 3d y cnc láser co2, máquinas de escritorio. Combinado con pla y mdf, madera o acrílico. La idea es hacer robótica a una escala más grande. Pero con materiales más económicos como el mdf y Pla. Para realizar una caja de engranajes de reducción de velocidad y ganar más fuerza con los motores. Muchas gracias por tu trabajo es una inspiración para todos.
@2150dalek Жыл бұрын
Amazing mechanical design.... Thanks for the video !
@nullfi7148 2 жыл бұрын
Cycloidal drives are super interesting, you should do this video format for a planetary gear drive build next. Keep going mate, great content and already subscribed : ]
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you and welcome!
@davib8963 Жыл бұрын
super cool, i'd like to make one as well.
@The_Unobtainium 2 жыл бұрын
How can you tell the parts were "exactly the same as in the "project"? I haven't seen micrometer in your hand to check it:)
@dragasan 2 жыл бұрын
I learned a lot - thank you! (And I love Solidworks)
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@TheLordbruh Жыл бұрын
Why don't you do the same video for planetary gearbox
@bustin1253 Жыл бұрын
I know you did them both the same so you could test the material against eachother with the same dimensions but if someone wanted to make a strong 3d printed version, all you would have to do is make all the engagement points at least twice as thick.
@HowToMechatronics Жыл бұрын
That's right.
@florianbertram9451 2 жыл бұрын
I think if that wooden arm slipped off the force meter we would never find out about it. It would be the end of this beautiful youtube chanel. Be safe out there.
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
hehe yeah, I guess you are right about this. :)
@felixslothower6180 Жыл бұрын
Very cool project, always fun to assemble your own cnc'd parts!
@alitn588 Жыл бұрын
What about the lubricant ? Doesn't need ?
@gordonpromish9218 Жыл бұрын
does the 15% loss in output occurs as sound, vibration, and heating? if so, where in the mechanism is most of the loss occurring? to improve efficiency or at least to improve durability at speed under load, what kind of mitigation would be beneficial? Would cooling be necessary during prolonged use?
@htomerif Жыл бұрын
I think you're going to have inconsistent backlash regardless. When the two gears are in phase, the holes line up and the only thing indexing the pins is them being pushed tangentially by the holes in the gears. When they're 180 degrees out of phase, same story. 90 degrees and (I think) the pins are being pushed by the gears directly in the direction you want them to go. Shouldn't you be able to add a 3rd gear and have 3 eccentric bearings 120 degrees out of phase? That should (again, I think) reduce the backlash. The more gears, the less backlash. Probably the same diminishing returns as a 3 phase motor: 2 isn't enough, 4 is too many. The 3d printed one should be easy to test at least.
@Caribbeanminds Жыл бұрын
I need a sprocket or something that can work with a motor and bicycle axle. For my e-bike build. In Florida
@Shocker99 2 жыл бұрын
This seems like aluminium vs plastic instead of milling and turning vs 3D printed as the title states... of course, they're all CNC machines.
@PCBWay 2 жыл бұрын
You never stop to amaze us 👍👍👍
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@JoeTaber 2 жыл бұрын
Good collab! I'm curious about how much a quote for those parts would total. I understand quotes are temporary for good reasons, but a ballpark would be nice.
@cvspvr 2 жыл бұрын
jlcpcb > pcbway
@PCBWay 2 жыл бұрын
@@JoeTaber About $700 for 15 pieces with DHL courier service.
@patracy 2 жыл бұрын
@@PCBWay well, I submitted a quote for a set of parts. Guess that answers that. Ooof.
@mecarloschavez6281 Ай бұрын
Hello, super cool proyect. quick question. what the cost of making the 3d printed version ?
@chiraz111 2 жыл бұрын
I have a great application for those gearboxes. What about a motorized telescope mount? I'd love to have some ultra-low backlash, high-torque actuators to make one...
@yelectric1893 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe a flexure is better for small stuff
@chiraz111 2 жыл бұрын
@@yelectric1893 a small...telescope?
@yelectric1893 2 жыл бұрын
@@chiraz111 Oh.. Youre right. I was assuming a little one with a 5" lens tops.
@pgjuzek 2 жыл бұрын
awesome build
@FilmFactry 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if with some patience, you could CNC the aluminum parts with one of those inexpensive 3018 CNCs?
@Shocker99 2 жыл бұрын
Not strong enough for the appropriate speeds and feeds to get a good finish.
@joansparky4439 2 жыл бұрын
@@Shocker99 not to mention that a lot of the features in those parts would require a CNC lathe or some other 4/5 axis CNC machine and as far as I'm aware 4th/5th axis hobby CNC builds are rare and currently unable to produce parts like this (accuracy, holding forces, etc.)
@russell.w1452 Жыл бұрын
Great video ❤️… i have a question, how did you make that animation of the object splitting in many piece at timesstamp 0:47
@pleappleappleap Ай бұрын
How small of a reduction do you need to use to the able to back-drive the motor?
@moses5407 Жыл бұрын
Apologies if this has been answered already. How backdrivable is the cnc machined version? Thanks for this great work!
@PhG1961 13 күн бұрын
What is your idea on the maximum RPM's the input shaft can handle? I would like to use a (powerful) BL motor, it easily runs at 10000 rpm.
@2madrobot 2 жыл бұрын
compared to planetary gear, can it be comparable? BTW. great video!
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Sure, it can be comparable, each have it's own pros and cons. I guess I could make a comparison video for those two types.
@FCFDave 2 жыл бұрын
Very nice design and presentation.
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Cheers!
@pleappleappleap Ай бұрын
I wonder how much would be gained by using graphite bearings?
@rainnyfromdwin4352 Жыл бұрын
Could you please make some Sponsored videos for our products?
@Loro310 2 жыл бұрын
Amazing channel!! Great work!!
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Cheers!
@jimmym2719 2 жыл бұрын
Fine job , thanks bro for sharing the details info 💕
@canberradogfarts 6 ай бұрын
PLEASE, FOR THE LIVE OF GAWD STOP HAMMERING PARTS TOGETHER. Get a 1/2tonne PRESS ARBOR!!!!!
@duongdohoang7351 Жыл бұрын
I want to hear the sound when gearbox runs!
@bryanteverett8421 2 жыл бұрын
If you don’t have merch with “Nevertheless” on it….then your missing out.
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
haha, fair enough! :)
@zhuzhoubettertungstencarbi7424 5 ай бұрын
Love watching it!
@stefanrodic5398 2 жыл бұрын
You are back!
@HowToMechatronics 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I guess I'm back with each new video. 😅
@wally88ar Жыл бұрын
Great work, but please don't hammer the steel pins with an iron hammer...
@CleonanTehGnome 2 жыл бұрын
Can you characterize the thermal differences with extended use?
@mohamedniyas-zl7mk Жыл бұрын
why are you using two disc for it just one disc enough for the reduction. it is not double stage drive it is only single stage drive only know. can you please clear my problem
@pleappleappleap Ай бұрын
Isn't even aluminum stronger than PLA? I mean, is it really necessary to use stainless?
@eirikkalstad6007 Жыл бұрын
Very educational video!
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