if he leaves then that's perfectly fine we don't need complaining whiny lil bitches in the scene

BAN JUMPING OR ILL QUIT FOR REAL

Not a man, just a large baby

Let him quit. After all his shit, this community would be better off without him.

Three things: 1. He will never quit pro gaming, he’s useless at anything outside of pressing buttons in video games. 2. If he ever quits, the community will collectively tell him to stay away and dance to celebrate him leaving. 3. He’s a 28 y/o that has never had a job or done anything adult related, which has made him have the maturity of a 8 y/o

That was badass

such a goat

so sick, lmao

Honestly, that was some straight Deep Leff shit

Big Bang no happen.

Lmao.

no leffen dont quit smash need you and your 50000000000000 text characters of complaining per loss it would really suck if you left and no one had to read that shit ever again

He himself puts the capital L on Leffen

Leffen is always perpetually holding L’s because of his shitty narcissistic attitude and behavior and that still holds true to this day, both in his name as you all pointed out and in character. It’s kind of shitty that really good dudes like hungry box and m2k unintentionally enabled this sort of behavior by not just holding Leffen accountable for his actions right now. Smash community’s biggest problem and it’s all because the status quo is “Leffen is an asshole” and people just accept it. Good opera, I suppose 😂😂😂.

Incredible punchline

I definitely wouldn't say HBox doesn't have negative feelings towards Leffen, more that he's just being very mature.

is the melee community that should respect hbox more, sure he is not perfect but so do they.

imagine having respect for hbox lol

@@John-nk3ej imagine having this take lmao

@@John-nk3ej imagine not having respect for hbox lol

Leffen is to Melee as Punk is to... every other fighting game. When he wins, he says it's his skill, every single time he loses he blames the game or says the other person cheated.

Also the puff wasn't the one who even won the tournament. It was a Marth.

@@Healer0079a but Leffen lost to a puff, which is why he is ranting.

He complains about Marth as well

Leffen does cry alot but tbf everyone hates puff and how hbox would abuse the rules. However hbox has never talked shit about anyone

Yeah everyone made the same mistake of trying to beef with him in the past but you just can’t win he has too much experience getting into stupid arguments lol

@@utikt I've always heard the saying of don't get into an argument with stupid people cause they'll just beat you with experience lol

@@darknesswave100 there’s the saying I couldn’t for the life of me remember it rofl thanks

@@utikt "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -Mark Twain

I love how he goes out of his way threatening to quit when he doesn’t even play lol

Thanks for the heads up bro is malding

I dunno about tears, but the rest sounds right.

wait, so we can literally just keep doing what we are doing and the annoying whining mosquito is going to quit whining? THATS A WIN WIN SITUATION FOR US BOYS

Leffen has always been a sore loser.

Hbox grew up and Leffen is still the biggest John in melee.

@@iiWicked You’d be surprised how many people hate Hbox still but im convinced they only know him for his puff. He didn’t even play that campy compared to Leffen who spammed lasers more than he was on ledge… Leffen needs to grow up…

meanwhile Leffen hasn't changed since he was 12

Its like saying their should be a limit to how many times falco can use laser to approach because its too good and easy even though other players are beating falcos that do that

@@FrankEShaw05 "Can we please put a limit on stomp into knee? Falcons are winning too much."

I've been learning Swedish, what's Skärpning?

@@psymar It comes from: Skärp dig, which can roughly be translated to "get it together". Skärpning would be more like: "shape up". Not the most common word you'll hear. Good luck with your journey to learn Swedish!

@@IchigoKurosaki911 Sheik ftilt into fair is now only allowed 4 times per match.

"how DARE you play your character and actually ask me to use counterplay"

Of course he was. Cause that's who he is and always had been. A whiny little manchild who throws a hissy fit when he loses to the point of sticking a bottle in his mouth would be the only way of shutting him up

@@darknesswave100 I agree

glad to see 15 years later, people are still saying "johns"

He's such a crybaby too. When he wins he goes off but when he loses its all excuses and the game's fault. Like grow up or leave cause nobody likes a whiny little bitch

@@iansamuel1811 I still really want to know what John is up to nowadays

@@theillusionist1494 whose it named after?

@@iansamuel1811 As far as I’m aware, the phrase originated from a friend group that included somebody named John, who, whenever he lost, would always make excuses, particularly phrased like complaints. Over time, they just started saying “no johns” as a substitute for “no excuses,” and the phrase spread through the Melee - and, eventually, the larger Smash - community. One guy was so salty after so many matches that his name has been synonymous with the word “excuse” for about two decades, and that’s still really funny to me.

Nah, I would still be sad if that happens.

I'll be sad about the Melee we will lose, but otherwise, I wouldn't mind losing his toxicity, bad takes, or harassment. Leffen is a vital part of Melee history regardless though, but he needs to mature, his old storyline has passed it is time for a new chapter and I do hope Leffen, if he plans to continue participating, matures with the times.

@@coolyeh1017 he’s literally a cyber bully to so many fighting community figures. Sure he is part of melees history, but that doesent excuse his behavior, and it should not be welcomed in the smash community, it only hurts it.

@@MatthewJones-pz9nx I don't disagree with what you said. I essentially said that if Leffen wants to be in the community, he needs to mature and stop his petulant behavior. Furthermore, he will need to discourage his fans from doing the same bad habits he does.

I just want him to get better about this :/

he malded on twitter

I wouldn’t say cody was malding, he was just sad about the bad things that happened in his life and how it kept affecting him this year unless you aren’t talking about that (I don’t follow him and I only saw the thread he made).

@@jasongts trauma dumping on twitter 5 seconds after getting 3-0'd is kinda like malding

Ok that’s fair lol

​@@jasongts he bitched about how mango prejohned before their set while mango played well during their set and 3-0ing ibdw

Similar vibes to Esam going through every character in Ultimate to explain how every last one of them is carried by *something*

@@juniperrodley9843 yet still

@nan5mj mango said it best when leffen cried about marth being unwinnable for fox. Proceeded to beat zain twice to win summit with fox, and went on mic "Leffen can suck my fat dick"

@nan5mj tell me you know nothing about the puff fox matchup without telling me you know nothing about the puff fox matchup. Hbox was absolutely the one camping Leffen, not the other way around. Leffen lasers because no character except maybe marth has the tools to approach puff by the ledge and challenge her air stalling. He is not lasering to "camp" hbox, the camping is the other way around. Any outplay or mistake challenging Puff's air stalling and you will lose your stock, meanwhile at best you get a single aerial into another mixup that can cost you a stock or get 1 more aerial. The ruleset does need to be changed. It needs either a TO/ref to determine air stalling or a relevant shorter timer. Honestly there's even an argument to ban Puff altogether because she is always the source of every ruleset and TOing issue, whether it's 40 min sets due to stalling and no interactions as in Bananas vs Michael or Pops vs Absentminded, or Hbox and Haunter ledgestalling and getting people to literally want to quit the game (and have in known cases). You know it's a problem when even Fox doesn't have the appropriate tools to combat the "strategy" of sitting by the ledge and doing nothing.

@@chrispham6599 still what :v

the phenomenal character balance Melee is known for :D

@@juniperrodley9843 Ikr? Nerf all other characters so I can top 8 with Roy, that's my motto then.

@@BiohazardScott so true

Not arguably

Leffen is extremely entitled. He acts like he runs the entire scene and can do whatever he wants whenever he wants. He always acts like that. Its super annoying.

crazy

Hes always been like that. salty ahh

Even then he still had a very solid performance in this tournament, out performing other top 10 players like Mang0 (okay 11th, lol), aMSa, Wizzrobe, and iBDW.

@@ohianaw Watching him play Strive is the same. The top tier characters are "broken, OP, and dont have to work for anything"... Until he mains them. Then those characters are mid tier and have losing MUs to half the cast. lol

@@raqu17 the dude acts like he's the best player in every game he plays and then when he gets smacked around he calls foul. It's pathetic to watch

or egg stalling, or Samus recovery stalling, or Peach stalling, etc. like Homemade WAffles said, it is an extremely slippery slope that is worse for the game than it benefits.

oh yeah let's go, Melee must become a resource management game where you balance ground and airtime perfectly. the year is TWENTY X--

Bro thought it was Tony Hawk Pro Skater

Next Melee major should have two side events with an air time limit and a ground time limit

The check the disk thing was bad but not as bad IMO, and Leffen ALWAYS post toxic Johns after his lost. The difference here is that he got the mic

@@damana1000 Absolutely. And honestly, it HAS happened before that something small was off about the game version at a tournament. If anyone would notice it by feel, it would be Hungrybox. But, it’s *very* close to johns after you’ve just lost a set, and nobody will remember or care because Leffen did him a huge solid and have him an opportunity to look mature and professional.

That rest did look like it should’ve hit tho. Some Z axis shenanigans. Don’t know what the disk has to do with anything but it’s not like we don’t know melee can be a quirky game sometimes.

HAHAHA that’s so fucking true. Respect to Hbox for this mature of a response but that’s funny as hell

Check the disc is funny and I think it's gonna be one of those things people say when weird stuff happens in the game.

It's especially weird from Fox mains. It's like they WANT the game to become dull fox mirror matches forever.

@@ggggg77273 basically. “Don’t do anything that makes my TOP TIER character worry.”

Melee is pretty unbalanced. The whole meta is about exploiting glitches and bad programming in general.

@@Yokai_Yuri you have never played the game, and if you have your look on things comes across sad to me

​@@ggggg77273 A lot of people who focus on playing top tiers grow to feel entitled. Specifically, they feel entitled to a winning matchup. They start to feel distressed and frustrated when other people use their characters' tools in a way that messes with them, because avoiding that situation was the entire reason they chose the character they play. Most top tier mains aren't like that, obviously, eg. I just play Nago in Strive cause he has cool animations, but they do exist.

He's always causing problems with other guilty gear players. It's honestly frustrating to watch someone be so good and do nothing but bitch and whine when they don't get their way.

@nan5mj Cody is a bit cringe, but Leffen is actually Toxic.

I mean if you read any comments from Reddit, twitch, KZfaq, Discord, Twitter, etc everyone is shitting on Leffen. It is just that the professional commentators and players took the more mature route and either didn't comment, do what Hbox did, or calmly made pointed rebuttals Leffen had no answer to. It is fine to complain a bit, it is the nature of competitive games/sports, after all, it is what is done after the moment. For example, HBox, Mang0, Armada, iBDW, etc all have their moments in the past, just not as bad as Leffen, but did they sit there and complain for weeks? No, they went back to the grind, trying new things, improving the match-up game, testing new tactics and strategies etc. I'm not saying Leffen didn't do those things (he does make an effort to learn and do better at gameplay), but he is the most vocal and emotional of them.

@@coolyeh1017 what "moments" did Armada ever have that were comparable to Leffen's?

@@rumfordc hence why I said that it never got as bad as Leffen but there are moments where he trash talks (notably in pre-2013) , gets upset and hates on a character. But the thing is that he is overall more graceful and is much more reserved.

Because not approaching is lame. You need to do whachu gotta do when somebody is camping you out, and Leffen's narcissistic brain can't comprehend being outplayed so he immediately tries to turn to the viewers to find excuses as to why he lost.

In my experience people coming from Smash think puff is going to be the death of the game, and people coming from street fighter think she’s the most interesting character in the game.

@@Ashragi accurate 🤷🏾‍♂️

It's basically a speed thing. Melee attracts most of its players for its incredibly paced combos and blazing fast yet still complex neutral. Puff flies in the face of that, and if you don't actually play puff, it doesn't seem like what hbox is doing is all that hard. It's very clear when you watch mango do a sick 0td string that several really good reads and execution checks went into making it happen, but when hbox gets a bair knockdown into rest it doesn't *seem* nearly as skilled. The "hurts viewership" thing is just straight up not true, when hbox is doing well and is a villain to root against melee has better viewership than ever. Most of the puff hate comes from leffen and his overall influence in the community, as well as some from mango when hbox and mango genuinely hated each other. Mango and Hbox are on better terms now, but I don't really think leffen ever really got over hbox. There was a period in like 2017 or 2018 (I don't really remember) when leffen was genuinely pushing to ban puff. Most of the answer to the question is basically just hbox was very good for a very long time, and people didn't like to see someone who didn't speak to what they like about the game at number one.

@@Ashragi flying footsies ong

also how tf would an airtime limit work????

@@bluewuppo Logistically speaking, the game keeps track of this. You can view your total air time after a game in the stats thing. So you could make some limit of like, "If air time is over X time, then puff loses" or "If air time is greater than X% of gameplay then puff loses". However, gameplay wise speaking, its still a pretty dumb idea. Even if its possible to implement, there is no good reason to actually do so.

@@eragon78 o yea i was talking gameplay wise. like how would you begin to decide a 'fair' amount of air time. is it different for each character? etc etc

@@bluewuppo I don't think he ever considered applying it to anyone aside from HBox's Puff lmao

@@juniperrodley9843 omg lol

mang0 has and hes my favorite player

@@epicgamer5122 On stream yeah, but he doesn't say it's the reason he lost. Because he knows about the brokenish aspects of the game he works it into his game plan and it's on him to play it out. He knows this.

that's the funniest concept ever holy shit

Unfortunately.

Another thing I could suggest is that the TOs don't really want to bother Leffen too much by banning him or forcing him out because it isn't worth the headache. It is a case that it is significantly less effort to deal with the fallout than his normal behavior. Of course, that behavior shouldn't be encouraged, but I can get why most TOs don't bother, or cannot afford to bother. Many of them are operating at razor-thin margins (Ludwig here said that he is operating at a 200k loss without the primary sponsor) and have to deal with contracts, securing equipment, venue, vendors, staff, security (especially after the one incident a loser in a Madden eSports game went on a shooting spree), disputes (legal (aka Nintendo) and mundane), etc, that is better to just let the guy compete if he wishes than to fight him, knowing that Leffen will fight back since Leffen does have one of the biggest e-Sports orgs behind him (who are possibly legally obligated to defend him if it is in the contract).

Yep. Nothing new there.

Leffen trying to get hbox banned at this point.

100%, and you all treated him like shit

@@HieronymousLex he accused Leffen of being a Nazi

@@23mrbee He said a lot of wild things, but that wasnt one of them

@@COIN_a he straight up showed a text message he sent to Mike Hagar saying he thinks Leffen read Mein Kampf.

Probably because it would be easier to just deal with him than outright get rid of him. Cause knowing him he'd play the victim if he did get say banned from playing at all and everybody knows it. So it's just easier to deal with him acting like a spoiled and egotistical child then him playing the victim which he's done before

I think you don't have the history of context of Leffen putting out his crappy opinions after getting bodied lol

⚰️

Seconded.

A real answer? It's easier for everybody to just deal with his bs than actually ban him. Cause we all know he would play the victim. He's done it before and acts like he can do no wrong. He's done the same thing in Guilty Gear. He calls other characters trash and the players bad until he uses the characters and then all of a sudden they're broken and whatever else. Man just loves to write his own narrative and expects people to follow it. He's just a narcissistic man child. Always has been always will be