What would you do? Piece it back together? Or try to fix it right?

I showed my grandfather this video. He was an electrician his whole life, and his first job(at 15 years old) was working for O'Keefe-Merrit in Philadelphia. They built the generator part of that unit and then connected them to 2 or 4 cylinder engines that they got from Ford(post-war/1945) and Willy's Overland Company(that contracted with Ford, Packard, and a dozen other companies pre 1945). He thinks you should rebuild it because "they don't make that kind of quality anymore." It's quite possible he bolted those units together or secured it in the shipping crate(They would have been OD green from the factory). Dayshift would assemble the engines(he says it should have the same fuel pump as a jeep of that era(the 4 cyl engine was the same engine in the Jeep and most parts should be interchangeable). The second shift would attach the generators, and bench test them and overnights(which ran from 6pm-2am) would crate them. He worked on 2nd and overnights from 1944-1948. There were only 5 other people that would have done that. His "Boss" who was the "old man" on the shift, was 22 and is now 102. They are the only 2 left from that era. Thanks for posting this. I had no clue he would be that closely connected. It made his year!

Just before WW2 my father was the service manager at Monkey Wards in an Ohio town. Our family name is Sears. MW customers would bring in their complaints and the clerks would say "No problem sir, just go see Sears". The customers would start to cuss out the clerks because they thought that MW was refusing service and directing them to Sears Roebuck. The Sears Roebuck manager tried to hire my father away from MW just to spite their competition, because my dad was known around the town as the best service guy. So my dad put up a sign at MW Service that said "Powered by Sears". He told me that people even brought Sears products to him for repair, and he would repaint them blue over the Sears red. Dad came from the period where "we had to walk 5 miles to school without shoes".

As a generator mechanic, I am very interested in seeing you guys do a full restoration of that thing. I was always told that the Onans were the best gen set and it looks like what you have there could be something extremely reliable as long as it still makes electricity. No doubt you guys will get the motor running but the true test is if it makes power. But yes, Full Restoration!!

If you look at the history of David Onan you will find that he had trouble with the lights going up and down with the running of 1930s Brigs and Stratton engines, he and his son spent many years trying to solve the problem. Finally, he built his own engines with better balance and governor.

I worked at a Montgomery Wards auto center in the early 1970's. Their color is, in fact; blue. They were a cut rate version of Sears. Whatever you bought from them on the hardware side came in blue packaging. Just like the blue on your generator. Wrenches, blue roll pouch. .22 rifle, blue box. Sears, Montgomery Ward, and J.C. Penney; all competed for the same customer back in those days.

I have the Onan version of this it's a 7 kW 3 phase generator and believe me they're about as reliable as a Mormon showing up to church on Sunday

Yes, fix it to be a reliable runner at least. Save the history.....

“So, engineers were always jerks” says the kid with the engineering degree.

Full restoration!!!

@49:00 You were spot on how the choke works - and the heater was broken, so someone adjusted it to 'off' all the time. Have I ever mentioned I used to work for Onan? ;)

The story I’ve heard many times on the oil bath air cleaners is that they worked very effectively but the manufacturers wised up and figured out they could make quite a bit more money charging for filter canisters. Ironically, sometimes if a farmer was really keen on cleaning out his filter element with compressed air all the time , it could rip the material and let dust get sucked in more easily. The oil bath was pretty fool proof if you kept good clean oil in it. The only thing we’ve ever run in them is regular engine oil.

You guys need to make this a collaboration with Handtool Rescue. This is right up his alley.

I just love the father son love in your videos. I miss my father so much. Keep up the great work together.

Onan W2C from the looks of it. Well worth saving, those little gensets are bulletproof.

I think that plate that isn't full size bore on the carb mounting is an intake restrictor to limit the max air to the carb and so limit the max revs of the engine. Simple but effective.

I had an oil bath air filter on my 1954 Holden FJ ute here in Australia & it worked very well at seperating & capturing dirt & dust. Emergency braking or hard brake tests for rego used to see oil spill out over the hot exhuast manifold resulting in lots of smoke & luckily no fire.

I love the way you guys always machine things to better than they ever could have been originally. In that same vein, I’d like to see you guys update as much of this generator as possible

As you said, today’s carb cleaner is nothing like what we had up to the mid 80s. The old stuff would strip a carb in 30-45 minutes. When it was used up and dirty, the heavy line mechanic would take it and use it for his engine parts for the next month or 2. Before we knew better, after pulling the carb out of the agitator tank, we would wash it off in the mechanics bathroom sink. A fresh tank of the stuff would strip the top layers of skin off your hands if you had to reach into it. Made sure you never went home with dirty hands. I remember getting angry at the heavy line mechanic when he would put valve covers in it to strip the paint off of them. Would ruin the cleaner. Today, ultrasonic cleaners work better than the chemical cleaners available today.

Please do it. We like to learn more about how the whole assembly operates. How it was done back then is always neat to learn and remember.

Montgomery wards, holy crap. I havent heard that name since the 80s/90s

There is a utuber called Small Engine Mechanic. These generator engines are his speciality.

We had one of those at our WI hunting shack in the '70s. I rebuilt it in high school shop class in 1976. I could get some of the parts at that time. I believe that is a 1kW lighting plant. It has terminals to connect a remote start/stop. We only started it while being at the machine since the electric choke coil broke, and we would check oil, etc. The remote stop was nice so we didn't have to leave the warm shack at bedtime. You are correct that the choke is not set correctly. If you can fix the coil, set the choke by turning the htr assy until choke blade is just closed, and tighten base clamp. The fan hub is oil filled as well. Small screw on hub let's you add oil until it leaks out of shaft. The top of the coil housing is missing because those are not original coils. The original high tension leads came out of the cap horizontally. Our coils failed so we replaced them with new ones, 6 V wired in series, just like original. Also, the coil housing is above the exhaust manifold and would cook the coils. I out a sheet metal shield over the manifold. I had to replace head gasket in early 90's and couldn't get parts. Original gasket was copper on two sides, some kind of fiber in the middle. I contacted a gasket company and got a high temp head gasket material sample, approx 8" x 10" or so. Drew up the gasket on ACAD and had it CNC punched at work. Worked fine. Many of the other gaskets, such as base and lower cylinder gaskets were a thick waxed paper type. Check the commutation end of the generator to be sure there is a gap between each copper section. As the copper wears the insulation between each section must be removed. Easily formed with a hacksaw blade if needed. Our valves were very worn, and I was able to replace them. The guides may have been too, but I don't remember replacing them. We ended up discontinue using this generator and switched to using newer portable 5kW generator as it had more power, portable, less maintenance, etc. You may have some luck getting a few parts now since the Web exists. I even called onan in the '70s and they said they didn't support that machine any longer. Ours was green, same as the background behind the lettering on the radiator. We painted ours a deep blue for some reason. Be careful taking the two bolts out that hold the thermosiphon to the radiator as they are through bolts and get rusted in place. We snapped ours, then snapped an easy out, then visited the local machine shop to fix that! It was a fun project though.

Montgomery Wards, Sears and J.C. Penny.......ah, my childhood....

make sure the generator works before digging into thee engine, fixing a bad generator might be very tough.

You're correct in your assumption of how that choke is adjusted. It's adjustable so you can change the time of how long the choke stays closed to warm the engine up. In really cold weather the housing that the element is in can be adjusted to tighten it up to make it take longer to open the choke. In warm weather when a choke isn't needed, it can be set so the choke is wide open. I've been working on engines since I was 16 and have been through a large number of carbs either rebuilding them or adjusting them. I'm 62 and retired now but still turning wrenches at home. Personally, if I had that generator, I'd clean it up, rebuild the carb, give it a nice paint job, made sure it ran ok and use it as a conversation piece. Why go through the trouble of overhauling the engine, will it be put back in service? I think it'd be better off just cleaned up and painted....just my .02 worth.

I love restoring old machinery! Thanks for this video! Those old gensets would use the generator head as a starter motor if a battery was connected. I've got a few that use that technique.

I too am a boomer, only three years younger than this treasure. I wish that my son would find & buy me stuff like this, but in reality, I have far more projects & stuff than I can ever use, but a welding unit like this would be very handy at times. The thermo siphon system had a couple of advantages. It was cheap [no pump] & it actually worked well, & it worked best at near boiling, which helped the engine to heat & vaporise the poor grade of pre 1950's fuel, ensuring smooth running through good combustion & of course lower running costs when all of the liquid fuel that leaves the carb is vaporised & burned. But wait, there's more. Dodge engines from 1914 till sometime in the early '20's had the carb bolted directly to the cylinder block. The intake passage passed between No. 2 & 3 cylinders to the opposite side of the block, then branched via an internal T section to feed Cylinders 1& 2 on one side of the central cross passage, then 3 & 4 on the other. All of the intake passage from carb flange to valve seat were cast in block. The upside is that the crude fuel of the day [close to Kerosene] needed heat to vaporise it properly, & this system provided the heat that many other engines did not. Particularly in the north with plenty of snowfall & sub zero temperatures. Dodge engines of the period were well known for smooth running & great mechanical reliability & this design was a contributing element. Hmmmm, to rebuild or not to rebuild, this, is the question. Worn guides, suspect valves, worn cam & an implied responsibility to restore it to a fully serviceable standard [ie, like new], so, pull it down & let us all see how it works.

Now this would be awesome pice of hardware to rebuild and get running just for the nostalgia. Some collector would probably love it. B4 you get too deep into it, you may wanna have the coil, or generator alternator winding check? To make sure the thing can theoretically produce electricity. And pressure test your cooling system

The oil bath air cleaners on the old VW Beetle worked really well, just messy to service.

When you see the price of Onan parts, you'll see why we call them "Onan The Barbarian".

Man I miss Montgomery Wards. They were awesome, like Service Merchandise. And yes, that is the original color. MG always painted everything Hammerite blue or green. I've got an old MG gas powered water pump that's very similar to this that's painted that same battleship blue. Still runs too, my grandpa always said "you get what you pay for, and if you buy smart you'll have a tool for life" It's fun to see this! It takes me back.

Get it runing and then restore it to new, continuing story tor episodes to come. Loved the Willis jeep engine saga!

For a lot of KZfaqrs out there, I would vote for just getting it running and go from there. You guys are in a really unique spot with a machine shop at hand. In your case, I would vote giving it the 2024 treatment by taking it apart, machine to good tolerances, balancing it and putting it back together with either the factory color for vintage reasons or high tech colors or coating for a vintage-modern look. It would be cool to see what old might look and run like if it was given todays specs. Also (if it hasn't been mentioned), the direction of the spring on the carb dictates that the heat will open the choke. To check the adjustment, put the carb in a fridge and a freezer to see if there's a difference in how open they are. I think fridge should be partially to mostly closed with freezer being all closed. There will be a temperature it's expected to be completely open, maybe in the manual.

That’s a honeycomb radiator. They were popular in the 40’s. The generator probably also doubles as your starter. The crank should be backup. You should pull the plugs to prime the oil system before cranking it over. The GenSet should be governed to 1800 rpm and have adequate balance to run smoothly. I have a couple Crosley powered 3-phase generators. Fun things to play with.

put the engine back together and send it! that's neat that the generator turns the engine to start it, i'm not sure when ALCO or GE started using this idea on their locomotives I will tell you that modern GE locomotives still use the batteries and traction alternator to start the diesel engine.

Restore it! Preserving history will always benefit the future generations. I'm sharing this with my club members of Power From The Past in Arizona. We will be following for updates. Thanks for rescuing this "old iron".

The neighbor has one of those badged Fairbanks Morse. They called it an "Electric Plant". Yeats ago, I'd installed a transfer switch so it can be used as standby house power.

GE Glyptol electric motor paint... Is what that dull red paint is ..

That partial intake block off plate was probably to aid carb function and to increase turbulence in the intake stream for better atomization. At least that was their thought in 1940ish I think...

The carb cleaner I remember came in like a 3 gallon metal bucket. In all the years my dad had his service station we never had to buy a new bucket. The liquid inside was, basically, black and depending on what you were cleaning, there might be a light wisp of smoke when you pulled the parts out

Onan makes amazing generators. Can't wait to see you get into it.

I have a 1948 Tow Motor fork lift with a Continental flat head 6. It has a Zenith updraft carburetor that is a REAL ODBALL. The only one I could find was over 400 bucks about 7-8 years ago. It's cast steel/iron and it's SHOT!!!

That generator is a piece of history. I would reach out to Onan and see if they would participate is such a piece of history. I once bought an old paint compressor from my brother-in-law and used it for nearly 10 years. tt was made in the 40's when I was a child. What amazed me it ran when you tried and was so quite. Parts on my body are waring out at the age of 82 and I appreciate that old technology. I always wanted to rebuild an engine so I appreciate your vid's

Measure the compression. Measure the oil pressure. If they're both good and it not knocking, don't fix it, it is not broken, don't fix it. Run it at 80% of it's rated electrical load. See if it struggles to keep up. Also check how it handles an electric motor starting surge, maybe a window air conditioner, If it stumbles and sags then it doesn't have enough compression or the cam lift is worn so it is not getting enough charge in the cylinders. That system is overbuilt. It is designed to run for long periods under heavy loads, kind of like marine engines.

Get it running then do the machine work to make it perfect.

Very interesting little engine, get it running and then decide if it needs a full on rebuild. Dodge Brothers cars from 1914 until 1925 bolted the carb directly to the block same as your little Onan. You two guys have a great channel.

That truck came with 2-40 air conditioning, open two windows and drive 40 mph.

Put it back together and test run. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If during the test run you observe more serious problems, then go for the total rebuild. You would be very surprised at how durable and functional old engines and equipment like that are.

If the compression is decent... press on...

I want you guys to do whatever you think is fun. You seem to be having a fun time working on this on your own schedule. I'll tune in for whatever happens.

Like you said “ If it ain’t broke don’t fix it “. If it runs fine then get the generator working and it will be golden. I’m fascinated by the design of different engines. This one is truly unique.

"White gas" was what we called the stuff that went in a Coleman lantern/stove. In the 70's anyhow.

Thanks for this video , interesting challenge you fells have taken on. My dad was a wholesale distributor for standard oil back in 1949, the 12,000 gallon rail cars were filled at hillyard next to Spokane from a pipeline. When they arrived he would pump the gas into storage tanks and then go up to the top and empty a small vial of dye into the gas to brand. Red was regular 87 octane and blue was supreme 89 octane. What came through the pipeline was clear, each company would add different color to brand.

I went thru a mid 70s single cylinder air cooled Onan. Very similar basic construction as this water cooled twin. Had a lot of fun & education going thru the 2.5 KVA Onan I had.

I love this! Always loved working on small engines. B&S, Tecumseh, motorcycles, generators. Thanks for doing this video!

Okay, this generator should have been built to government specs to be used in all the theaters during the war! A good source of potential advice would be James Condom’s channel where he primarily fixes and knows more about motors and more importantly generator repairs on KZfaq! Put a little money into a content generator for the channel, and the value of a generator that’s probably very collectible from WW2 re-enactors, to just collecting! This may be gold for you!

HAZMAT training calls your carb cleaner: “Methyl Ethyl Death”. - wash your hands…you’ll be fine, as my dad would say. 😂

Oil bath air filters are GREAT! You just have to remember to clean them out and change the oil. On my Willy's pickup I did it every oil change.

I think the reddish orange paint in the oil pan is Glyptal paint. It is used in electric motors in the oil bath bearings and windings. Great video, please go through it! And make more of these!

That part on the carburetor with the "D" opening is because this generator was once used by NASCAR at Talladega so it required a restrictor plate. They thought it would make the electricity better by keeping all the generators bunched up in a pack. It was alright until the "BIG ONE" happened. Then they were in the dark the rest of the night.

Tear it down, modernize it, clean/bead-blast everything, paint it original OD Green. 🙂

I believe these generators were designed with all major components within the footprint of the radiator. This allowed for compact crating and best use of space when shipping. That’s why the tight spacing on the carb bolts.

This inspires me to get my little old Onan running.

It's unfair to blame engineers for tight stuff like that. Any good engineer, given free reign, would make it perfect. Unfortunately, they (we) are usually given a deadline and horrible parameters to work with (make this work with this for $x, and have it done in two days).

Love it. Never seen one, never will see one. Thanks for sharing.

Its a joy to watch you guys

I'm definitely voting for a full engine rebuild 😊

Want a great idea! Clean the fuel system get it started and run and adjust everything, then check compression valve adjustment and see .how it run then , if it’s real good get the generator running and output , then determine if your going to strip it down for a good reason!

It would be very cool to get it back together and working you fellas seem to find a way to make it happen, best of luck Love your channel

I'm getting near the age that I'd like to head out to the garage/shop and just tinker with things. There is no money in it unless you find find a person that really wants it. What was cool back in the days of 'Monkey Ward' and especially Sears is: Sears: They genuinely carried even the smallest parts for stuff that they sold(Lawn tractors, dish washers, washing machines, etc.). They were sold with manuals that included highly-detailed printed parts blow-up illustrations with part numbers, They were damned nice and responsible manuals...not just a gloss-over. You could get those parts from Sears usually for the next 40 years after the damned gizmo was made. Not in any way true with today's machinery. Sears is sorely missed to me.

Pop the vent windows!!! Us old timers (51) know the tricks!!!

Thanks for another interesting video Jim and Nick. It is very interesting and informative and enjoyable to watch. This old generator system is really an interesting project you both have taken on. So interesting to see how it is put together as you disassemble the unit. I believe it is very well built the way it looks so far. Has had some use but not a tremendous amount of time on it. Sincerely appreciate the way you both explain the parts as you take it apart and how you believe it functions and all that. Dearly love the way you look at parts and analyze things as you go. Most v interesting project. Looking forward to following you on this one. The retired Air Force veteran.

Rebuild it to the max, I really wish i could do something like this with my Dad, your a lucky guy

This little outfit is a perfect static display project Jim. A great talking point and one i most certainly would look forward to you both working your magic on the engine, solving any 'problems' along the way. Go for it.....please👍🏻👍🏻 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

I’m looking forward to seeing this next weekend.

This video is the reason I like this channel so much. What a great video. We had a Lincoln welder that had an Onan engine in it.

Make it run as is..... and go from there.... enjoyed this video.....THANK YOU

The even firing setup crank is for the smooth rotation of the generator & electrical output for radios etc. Lighting doesnt need this.Entertained again, Thanks.

Of course we want to see a full tear down. That is a interesting piece of equipment and may be the only one some of us ever see in our lives.

Awosme viedo. Saw this on marketplace and glad it went to a good home!

Indeed carb dip is nothing like it used to be. Most of us still doing carb work have switched to using ultrasonic cleaners now. They work incredibly well.

Run it first & perform a cylinder leakdown test to determine if you need to go further with it,I would probably regrind the camshaft. I am all for the rule, if it ain't broken, don't fix it, I run my 5.7 litre Chevrolet LS1 V8 engine with just new hydraulic lifters & a new Rollmaster timing chain & sprocket set in December 2018 because the hydraulic lifters were jamming up in the lifter bores. The compression & oil pressure tests were all good back then so all I did is ran the engine with the original piston rings, bearings,etc & I still do that now at almost 399,000 kilometres (248,000 miles). It burns through 2 quarts or litres of oil within the 10,000 kilometre or 6000 mile oil change interval,my dad said that I may as well have rebuilt the engine in 2018 but I needed to get my Holden VY SS Commodore roadworthy for a Blue slip inspection because it was unregistered, the car wouldn't pass inspection with very noisy hydraulic lifters in the engine. I couldn't afford to fully rebuild the engine & I did what I did when the engine was still in the car,if & when it comes to rebuilding the engine I will replace the pistons with at least standard sized pistons because I believe that the piston skirts have been causing some scuffing on the cylinder wall of cylinder number 6, the Teflon coating may be worn on the piston skirts. I also want to fit full floating types of piston.l pin types of pistons & connecting rods since it's a 2002 engine which still has the piston pins shrunk fit into the small ends of the connecting rods !

Back in 72 the "Formula 409" cleaning spray was so strong we were getting dizzy breathing it. It sure cleaned good tho. I am still amazed how well Mr. Clean Magic Eraser white foam pads work.

Restore it! Make this thing better than new. Even if you need to C&C some parts for it, it will be really cool in the end. I'm certain you can get someone to go through the electrical side of it, and even re-coil it if needed. That stuff was made to last back in the day. With the better oils of today, it could probably run another 80 years.

Carb plate is that shape so the butterfly on the throttle shaft will clear then it open at full throttle. Machine it and get it back to perfect shape.before buttoning it back up.

This should be a good series

Go for it! Looks like a fun project.

I know I'm not alone in saying that I would love to see you two do another video about that cool little genset.

I say run it.. the worst that could happen is a rebuild , these things were build solidly, yes its worn as you've shown but at least you'll have the data, go for it boys😊

your dad smiles at you at the beginning, but he is thinking- that's my boy!

Those are awesome 👌

Definitely disassemble and see how it works and get it to a new state.

"And there not even internet friends like yours." 😂

That looks like an identical fuel pump to what is used on mid 1930's Chevrolet engines. I had to replace a diaphragm on my 1935 and a replacement is made and sold by Jim Carter's Truck Parts in MO. That was in 2004 that I did that but I think they still sell them. Them two nuts you were removing on top of the pump had flat pieces of formica type material with springs in mine and appeared to be check valves for the pump.

Very interesting video, thanks!

Great content thanks for sharing

Hmmm. The retired mechanic in me says get it running. The classic car owner says tear it apart.

That motor has genuine asbestos gaskets in it. It needs some Rotella 15w40 diesel oil in it. I bet it will run for another 80 years

Have seen a plate like that on various small gas engines.... a ultrasonic wash tank and some "Simple Green" works wonders on carburetor parts and it's safe...good content and thanks...🔧🔧👍