It already slided from "not real" to "not caused by humans" to "not a bad thing" a whole bunch... "it's too late to do shit" is just the next step

@@NeilDegrasseTysonWithAKatana Using the best evidence from climate scientists Al Gore claimed in 2006 that there would be no solving climate change if drastic measures weren't taken around the world to reduce greenhouse gases by 2016. So seven years ago it was too late to act.

It was never possible to do anything. The only people that care are white people. A tiny and shrinking percentage of the world population. You would need to establish a global government where white people subjugate all non-whites and enforce climate rules on them. And I'm pretty sure as a climate change believer you find the idea of white people being in charge even more unpalatable than global warming.

and if we aren't willing to do violence to the people in positions of power they will continue on this path until they kill us all.

Which is a false position too. Odds are that climate change will not wipe out humanity. It will definitely decrease human comfort and lead to a massive cost of human life, but odds are that even if the feedback loops lead to untold devastation worse than any model yet conceived there will still be human settlements and societies with enough population to sustain the species. There's too many of us and anything short of a gamma ray burst or an asteroid impact will still result in the species persisting in some form. And even in a climate ravaged future there will still be value in living sustainably.

Sounds about right for the people who assign a world destroying issue as “the other side wants change and we don’t like it reeeee”

Since when it wasn't an ideological position? The first time, at most, is when shell did research and decided, at that moment, to spread misinformation and fund deniers But even at that time, there were research about it and there already were deniers about it, at least since the begin of 1900s

Yup. All the years and time I've spent on trying to get this across to people hits a wall the second they've got their identity wrapped up in it. Facts don't matter at that point. You've got to get to the heart of the matter and ask what matters to them. Usually, we can find a common thread on saving money, cleaner environment, fairness in taxation, or even, "what are we gonna do for our tomato plants as it gets hotter?"

climate change is real, all the news and governments talking points are BS tho

I love this comment. It applies to everything in a general sense, but is also quite specific to the topic at hand.

"if you dont go in lockstep with the political establishment you are lying to yourself!" or i just dont wanna get scammed by bad people with bad intentions? why do i have to support EVERYTHING the left pushes? seriously what do i get out of it because they tend to be wrong on everything.

Are you on crack? The only people afraid are the ones who have fallen for this bullshit. Humans are insignificant. The earth does what it does and has for billions of years.

Dead right.. The boomers resent they are being told they trashed everything..

Yep, that is why support for climate change is so strong. If people could just ask - where is the testable prediction for this? They would see there is no testable prediction to support climate change and climate change is therefor not a scientific theory.

@@idwtgymn record every day’s temperature for the next five years, have fun man.

I'm over in Texas, and it's starting to become noticeably worse here too. The winter freezes are gonna get worse and worse and the summers are gonna get hotter and hotter. Grass fires on the side of the road, frozen tree limbs causing insane property damage, casualties from heat and power loss. I bet we'll be in the same boat as you guys in less than a decade.

Yeah if Canada is any indication with their "once in a lifetime ecological disaster" wildfires this last summer, things are just going to keep getting worse.

I'm terrified of how the government uses emergencies to take power and money away from the people and give it to themselves and billionaires; during the last emergency for example, the state gained enormous authority over people and billionaires doubled their wealth while the people lost half their wealth. I'm worried about the environment but the last thing I want is the government to "help"

OMG FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE SEES THIS It scares me as well, but I have more hope that Labor will be less corrupt than the Liberals@@mattsierra9653

It’s similar with my home. Bigger and more horrible fires. Herds of animals dead from mosquitoes glaciers disappearing completely. It makes me so angry and sad when I’m told it’s not real

This is so very true. It's what makes being a conman so easy.

This is something about humans that I *despise*. It is the author of so much of our misery.

This is a great quote. Is it yours?

sometimes if you wanna fool someone you gotta fight With their intellect not against. If you say something in a way that fits in line with what they think they already know and then fill in their blind spots with falsehood you can very easily make a relatively informed person fall for nonsense. It's how you get pilots who are flat earthers, and nurses who are anti vax. (sorry if I misunderstood what the first line meant and basically just explained it >>)

you might not be immune to propaganda but me? i'm built different.

This is so encouraging to hear. I don't think *MY* 90something year old evangelical grandparents are going to change their minds but I have hope my parents will.

"THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING THIS WHOLE TIME!"

I hope you are right

This will sound cruel but their opinion or understanding really doesn't matter. The problem is all the people under 60 who think like them who, in turn, will have to wait another 20 years (when sht is exponentially more fked) to "come to jesus" about reality... Then we have the next group of morons under 60 flying and cruising around the globe voting for republicans... And the cycle continues and then we just die. Can you sense my optimism??

@@elizabethreid5554 mine might if they still lived in texas, but we moved them up to washington and the polar vortex stuff makes it so cool up here that it isn't hitting them yet.

Yeah that’s the wild thing to me. It’s not even a matter of ignoring the data, it’s a matter of ignoring your own long term memory beyond a year or two. Like if you have memories of 20 or even 10 years ago living in the same place, it’s pretty obviously getting worse!

I mean, I think back like 3 years ago and I remeber how much snow we'd get and how much nicer the summer is, you can barely go outside now

And then blame it on Gen Z.

...this made me realize that when I was a kid, my mom had multiple videos where it was not uncommon for there to be tons of snow in October, to the point where Trick or Treating sometimes was hampered by a coat over my costume. and last year there was only a smidge of snow in my area, and it happened in like February only, and then was gone. and to top that all off, I'm 33 - this is less than 3 decades of time... this kinda bummed me out lol

Deniability is because people are fearful and ignorant to the truth that we do not know enough to make 100% certain assumptions about something we are too stupid to fully understand or do something about. Anyone explains to you they know exactly whats happening and how to fix this issue is lying to you. Fear mongering you with assumptions and fixing a problem they don't fully understand themselves is useless. I hate it when people try and wind people up on these crusades to end up empty handed and a basket full of lies. But lying is the new truth these days.

in 1979 the American Petroleum Institute along with Exxon, BP et al... proved Climate Change is Manmade caused by fossil fuels and decided to hide and obfuscate that information to make as much money as possible before the world economy crashes This information is available, but cultists will not... WILL NOT... read it because of cognitive dissonance.

Why do climate change hysterics always worry so much about what oil companies say? They say what they think will give them the best public image and they change their story accordingly. When they accept climate change, it is not evidence for climate change, they are simply deciding that arguing against it - even if its false - is counter productive because people believe it already.

@@idwtgymnbecause lobbying exists, so they can bribe politicians to say what they want them to

I just watched highlander 2, an old movie where the earth's OZONE layer was gone and we had to create a force field then I REALIZED climate ZEALOT took 2 decades to comprehend that even my housekeeper has an ozone generator that's just 2 metal plates and a little electric we could replace the entire ozone in a few days and COST A MILLION DOLLARS oh no, better not let people realize we are numbr than a 6th grader but spent billions to do nothing what's the first RENEWABLE resource........carbon, you're a carbon based life form and somehow don't know this carbon is easy AF to capture, it's natural, in fact water vapor it 4 times more of a greenhouse gas than carbon carbon dioxide is 0.04-0'05% of the ATMOSPHERE, below 0.03% plants start to die off to replace the lose carbon how low would you like us to go?! history repeats itself when you are LOW IQ, and the rest of us can do nothing to stop it

That’s surprising to me. Because it’s almost impossible to convince a republican that’s it’s bad to poison a lake they themselves fish out of.

​@@SixOThreewell I'm sure the reason it's so hard is because you don't know how to argue, as shown by your strawman of near 50% of Americans you've never spoken to. Maybe learn how to argue and more people might just listen

except they agree with you and simply pollute as normal. it's one thing to agree something is bad, it's another thing to do anything about it.

I’ve also heard another commenter (in a different comment section on another app) suggest when talking about getting off of oil to tell them that oil will still run out either way, and if we don’t make the switch eventually it’ll run out. Since our current consumption of it outpaces the planets creation of it. Not to mention how the human population is increasing.

I just googled it, and Aparentally it’s predicted that we will run out of it in roughly a 100 years. Which isn’t long at all.

Oooof

Dads, man.

Nope, you didn't learn enough about science.

I know how you feel... In recent years I've learned to just let it pass whenever my parents talk about their shit opinions, because I know my influence will never be enough to counterbalance the 'anti' influence (friends, info sources, their will to be contrarian) if they don't figure it out themselves. There's just no point fighting there.

@@Gobeline78 So you also took the sneek out path. Shame on you.

Especially if they feel helpless about changing anything. That is the really important second ingredient to the grift, „it isn’t real, and even if it was there would be nothing you could do“, and so people think that they either have to watch helplessly without changing anything or just close their eyes.

Government subsidies for green renewable energy does exist but loads of private companies abused them in order to get massive tax breaks thus forcing the government to limit or cut off these subsidies altogether. Go look up the case of "DC Solar ponzi scheme" the founder and owner of DC Solar used his company as a front to acquire fake investment from investors and at the same time companies and other entities get massive tax breaks for investing into DC Solar.

Electric cars switch the energy source from the fuel to your country's power plants. If your grid is mostly coal, then your car is powered by coal. Not less pollutant. Also batteries pollute immensely, the whole thing is very bad to produce. We need alternative fuels.

@@Fux704 Obviously we would need a more renewable and less polluting infrastructure before switching to all electric, but my comment was about the cost aspect. It's a lovely thought but meaningless if most people can't afford it.

@@Fux704i wont even contemplate EVs just for the batteries alone, it's trading one for of pollution for another and then we have the hazards of them.

This is old, but for anyone reading, it is better to keep your old car until it blows up than scrap it for a new care BECAUSE you are creating so much waste by throwing away one car then needing another car to be manufactured using a finite resource. Not to mention just like fuel will run out eventually so will material for batteries. It’s another form of kicking the can down the road. It is better, but it isn’t the solution. We need better transport and to greatly reduce the amount of finite resources currently needed for travel. *cough cough* TRAINS *cough cough*

There is a big difference between "refuse to believe" and "to know better".

@@oldineamiller9007shame you don’t know what it is.

@@tonyhakston536 It's exactly the other way around. I know what I'm talking about, you don't. Come on, try to prove me wrong.

Sure, The climate is changing. How much humans have to do with it is debatable. My problem is you people seem to be on this self-righteous mission to "save the planet". That is not what it is though. For most of this planet's history, it has been inhospitable to human life. Even after life showed up most of that time has been spent inhospitable to human life. You people don't want to save the planet. You want to stagnate the planet. You are selfish and want the planet to stay exactly how it is right now.

guys stop arguing both of our science uncles are here. also how you watch either of these channels and say that type of stuff? somebody hasn’t been staying curious…

Needs to be on a shirt.

Even then, they'll just blame it on natural cycles of warming and cooling. There's no convincing them. They'll always find some nugget of bullshit to latch onto to avoid having to accept that they're wrong. If hundreds of photographs, videos, measurements, and simple experiments can't convince flat earthers that the earth is round, then living in a future of unprecedented warming, rising sea levels, mass extinctions, and drought isn't going to convince climate change deniers either. Because the absolute hardest thing a person can do is to admit they might be wrong.

But then it'll be too late. Everything about addressing climate change through policies and changes in our lifestyles is a just a massive catch-22

this is literally their goal. you put up with their policies until they've cashed out by destroying the planet. when the reckoning comes for the rest of us due to their damage, they have enough money to build bunkers and buy the last remaining safe real estate while the rest of people get hit by typhoons and droughts.

@@treyshaffer That's the exact problem! By the time the idiots might finally be convinced we'll all already be dying in droves. And then there are still those who will try to find a scapegoat even when they are starving because of global crop failures. They will say "the elites hoard all the food" or something racist. Just so that they don't have to admit that the warners were right all along.

Well if you push a climate crisis I can guarantee you made the right choice in not arguing with your dad. It would get you nowhere and on top of that you'd be wrong.

Man if you’re having an existential crisis about your boomer in charge of nothing of import dad not believing in climate change you have an easier life than I. At the end of the day neither of you have a noticeable impact on the issue, unless either of you can shut down the coal plants of China.

That'll happen when he confuses media reports with peer-reviewed studies. Most people don't understand that difference.

​@Spincat08 so you are denying the crisis?

Yes. Because they want what they want, and don't care what it costs (other people).

I personally dont believe we "caused" change. Climat is always changing withing thousands or millions of years. However, we are activly influencing and speeding up the climat and the changes it is naturally going through. And faster then is healthy for the systems we rely on! It doesnt matter if we caused it or not ultimatly. We need to fix the damage we're doing either way! Just like its not the community's fault a person got run over by a bull. We've got to help, fix and help recover the runover person either way.

Costs more glucose!

You're underestimating the power of ignorance.

​@@ethribin4188that's essentially semantics. Technically yes we aren't the sole cause of climate change but we have sped it up and arguably are one cause of it. The climate is changing in a way that it normally doesn't and it is our actions that lead to that change. Therefore, we are causing climate change. Or, there are several factors involved in climate change, but normally these are close to equilibrium. We have become another factor much larger than the others, and so our actions are currently driving climate change. No matter how you look at it, it can be argued that we are causing climate, even if we are not the sole cause of it

At the end of summer? It’s been smoke season since fucking may

Can’t prove climate change is HUMAN caused without starting forest fires

​@TylesBrain a lot of forest fires are started by lightning. You wanna talk to God about this? Maybe you can petition for more planning in where lightning strikes?

My dad doesn't believe in man made climate change and we had a similar exchange about the fires... and he said he believes that climate change activists might be starting the fires.

@@ep7672 did you personally see the lighting. There were many areas with zero lighting leading up to their fires… Quebec an example

"You either come to realise what an idiot you used to be, or you continue to be that idiot."

@@LordZurkov I just watched highlander 2, an old movie where the earth's OZONE layer was gone and we had to create a force field then I REALIZED climate ZEALOT took 2 decades to comprehend that even my housekeeper has an ozone generator that's just 2 metal plates and a little electric we could replace the entire ozone in a few days and COST A MILLION DOLLARS oh no, better not let people realize we are numbr than a 6th grader but spent billions to do nothing what's the first RENEWABLE resource........carbon, you're a carbon based life form and somehow don't know this carbon is easy AF to capture, it's natural, in fact water vapor it 4 times more of a greenhouse gas than carbon carbon dioxide is 0.04-0'05% of the ATMOSPHERE, below 0.03% plants start to die off to replace the lose carbon how low would you like us to go?! history repeats itself when you are LOW IQ, and the rest of us can do nothing to stop it

@@LordZurkov A slight change 1 either realizes what an idiot 1 used to be, or 1 continues to be that idiot. Don't want to encourage humans going around calling others (using 'you') idiots based on what it thinks is idiotic & what is intelligent.

A shift in culture among the masses does sometimes help for getting someone in power that will at least try to do something positive.

@@NathaNeil27 I just watched highlander 2, an old movie where the earth's OZONE layer was gone and we had to create a force field then I REALIZED climate ZEALOT took 2 decades to comprehend that even my housekeeper has an ozone generator that's just 2 metal plates and a little electric we could replace the entire ozone in a few days and COST A MILLION DOLLARS oh no, better not let people realize we are numbr than a 6th grader but spent billions to do nothing what's the first RENEWABLE resource........carbon, you're a carbon based life form and somehow don't know this carbon is easy AF to capture, it's natural, in fact water vapor it 4 times more of a greenhouse gas than carbon carbon dioxide is 0.04-0'05% of the ATMOSPHERE, below 0.03% plants start to die off to replace the lose carbon how low would you like us to go?! history repeats itself when you are LOW IQ, and the rest of us can do nothing to stop it

'You' lobby & grandstand & vote for taxes and regulations that do absolutely nothing to solve the problem you claim we have. Why am I then to believe in your superior cogency and that received wisdom?

stop the oil is funded by rich people with ties to the oil industry BTW

@@ihatecrackhead That's not how it works, ozone is being constantly generated and destroyed in the upper atmosphere, causing the ozone concentration to converge to some equilibrium value. The ozone layer depletion is caused by certain chemicals that catalyze the active destruction of ozone and/or inhibit its formation, shifting this equilibrium to a much lower concentration of ozone. As these chemicals slowly break down over time, the ozone layer automatically heals. Dumping a bunch of ozone into the upper atmosphere wouldn't really accomplish anything, and it would also be highly impractical to get it there (and ozone in the lower atmosphere is just toxic pollution).

That is a classic reason for conspiracy theories believer. So, you're spot on.

Thanks for that input you probably hit the nail on the head because it makes so much sense. It seems like a common pattern people have at some point in there life. Wanting to be the small outcast group to feel important and smart to rebel against the majority but other people probably deny climate change because they’re profiting off the current system or don’t want to change their life for any reason

I read How to Talk to a Science Denier. The author went to flat earth meetings. He came to your conclusion that people just want to belong. As Hank says, it takes a long time to convince people ( from what I’ve read).

@@lillianbarker4292 All people love stories. They want their life to be a good story. They want to be the hero of their story or at least a significant character in a group of protagonists. Sometimes they make that story a wacky sf/fantasy/political thriller because those are compelling stories.

That’s an interesting observation. I watched that Flat Earth documentary on Netflix, and it’s clear those people love believing in that stuff because it gave them influence in that small community and made them feel special. It wasn’t really about the shape of the Earth, it was about their ego.

That's subtly terrifying.

Hopefully they'be been flooded out or struck by lightning by now.

Churches really like to use this as a "this is the end times!!" Which.. lowkey yes but not cause of God, we're just massively fucking up.

And that, kids, is why private schooling is bad.

The comedic tragedy is them dying before we can say “I told you so” as sea level rise drowns the coasts and irreversibly spiraling biosphere into 6th mass extinction. The world burns and they won’t be alive to suffer from the consequences of their actions

No, they are men who lived their life by reading newspapers and listening to corporate news. For DECADES media ignored climate and said environmentalists were 'kooks'. Thats MEDIA. NOW suddenly people on SOCIAL media say 'thats wrong'. But even mainstream media doesn't really talk much about climate change if it can avoid it, because gas companies have so much money. Here in Canada our public broadcaster even now hardly discusses it. When the fires were affecting canadian cities, I looked at canadian media and hardly any even MENTIONED the wildfires.

nah i genuinely know we arent melting the world, and i dont shill for the political establishment like you do. the people you listen to are wrong on EVERYTHING why would they be correct all the sudden? irony is you're the one whos scared. thats why you keep supporting in lockstep the political establishment. because you dont know how to say NO.

Yeah, exactly. I work daily with a bunch of 70 to 90+ yo people, and although they don't deny climate change, they will absolutely question humanity's role in it. Because them and their parents were actually responsible for the start of it all. And the guilt is just way too heavy to handle for them. So they go for the ostrich maneuver

or they just don't believe what a bunch of liars tell them? why are you guys so shocked not everyone follows your radical political agendas.@@GreyPunkWolf

Projection in a nutshell.

This is the crux of the problem. It's completely fine, even good, to be critical of established power structures. But assuming an assertion is bullshit simply because it came from an authoritative source, or government is absolute populist-brain rot. People have become so myopically concerned with potential government/academic propaganda that they've totally became blind to corporate propaganda.

This goes right past critical thinking and skepticism into oppositional defiance.

Not a single climate model has been accurate in 50 years

@@ShannonBarber78 That is histrionic over-the-top nonsense excuse making for intellectual laziness and getting bad grades in school.

Oh, come on! Fire is hot. Most people like chocolate. Falling off tall buildings can kill you. The Earth is round. WAY less than 50% of "what we are told" is false. @@ShannonBarber78

Rules for thee, not for me.

Since most of the world has at this point legalized abortion to some extent, it must be gods plan.

@@ShannonBarber78good thing that isn’t happening, huh?

@@ShannonBarber78Yeah. Just Gotta Trudge along and head I to oblivion blindly, because that’s what your god wants apparently.

This is why theism is another problem for society.

I used to be like that, then I actually hung around some people who knew science and made me realize that the existence and cause of climate change is not anywhere near as “controversial” as I was led to believe.

@@parmaxolotl I came to the same realization. I grew up in a context that said, basically, "sure, the scientists say that, but we all know how much you can trust THEM hahaha." Like, it was common sense that most scientists had a major agenda and you had to judge for yourself how seriously you could take them about a given issue.

Congratulations on being thoughtful, open to change human beings.

Interesting, I had the exact opposite experience. I use to believe in and argue for climate change. I had all the facts behind me and armed my rationale with graphs and data and for years I didn't doubt climate change at all. I still find it hard not to believe that the earth is warming given all the data I have seen and friends I have personally known collect the data. The problem is lived experience is starting to undermine that. I can only go thru so many "must just be a cold year this year" years and it's becoming really hard to not view global warming as a good thing when in my lived life I'm almost never uncomfortably hot but yet almost always cold and looking for some source of heat. I'd be happier to fight against global warming if it was actually warm when I go outside 😅

@@jpkellerman7056 I take it you understand that global warming means the average temperature of the globe is going up and that it doesn't preclude some areas not warming or even getting cooler? You change gross weather patterns and certain regions can certainly get colder while on average the whole planet gets warmer

So is cognitive dissonance simply the state of holding 2 opposite beliefs or is the discomfort that comes with it? I was always under the impression it was the discomfort factor, but if I'm wrong I'd like to be corrected. I could never live with that discomfort, I've changed my world views drastically twice in my life,bad id rather try to tune my perception to reality as opposed to doubling down. I'm only 23 but I'd hope that I can keep this ability if I come to find I'm incorrect on something important in the future, which I'm willing to bet I am lol

Glad someone else said it. If they must go I say we take out religion with them

@@lightningmonky7674 I believe you're correct and feel the same way, but in the common vernacular it's taken on a slightly different meaning with respect to people who find ways of ignoring the cognitive dissonance that should, if working properly, be alerting them to the problem of holding contradictory ideas at the same time, or having views that are consistently misaligned with reality.

​@@lightningmonky7674It's good to see that at least ONE person in this conversation understands what cognitive dissonance is & doesn't use it to describe people with whom they disagree.

Cognitive dissonance is actually the state of holding two contradictory beliefs and the discomfort that comes with it. It's powerful in that it's uncomfortable enough to cause people to rationalize and excuse, but it itself is not the mechanism by which they do so.

Climate denial movies?

Good on you for being able to listen to your friend. My father in Law, formerly an engineer (aren't they all?) was and probably still is a big time climate change denier. He is/was (he has slight dementia, but he is 96) completely invested in the science of it. Not the real science, but the crap written by other engineers, cooks, economists, etc. (very few climate scientists write denial books). I think that by now, in his moments of lucidity, he realizes that he was wrong. Hell, he lives right below the polar circle in Canada and he bikes in T-shirt for far longer than he used to be able to. However, his pride prevented him from admitting he was wrong. That's true of a lot of people. For my part, the people that really piss me off is not so much the deniers, but those that believe in Human caused climate change, but try to make a buck out of it instead of coming up with real solutions. One that made an impression was some dude that was pulling pollution from the air, to turn it into polymers that he would then use to build smartphone cases. As if those could make any difference at all.

@@jaredlancaster4137 Documentary movies. Eg: "Great Global Warming Swindle"

@@cf3714 gotcha

I was just having a conversation with a friend last night about this and said to him: "That's why we're fucked, because the average person is too fucking stupid to grasp the concept of 1,000 years from now or too stubborn to admit they're too stupid to understand it."

My Brain says this rings true thinking about psycho mechanics, "I" at its basest level is a collection of chemical logic gates, an emergent property of which is relating the output of that collection to some semblance of the input which was processed to produce it (why did I do that?). In so far as my conscience experience of continuous reality is actually just an illusion created by the overlap of segmented reactions (snapshots in time so to speak), "I" is the thing denying that "I" ceased to exist with the passing of the last neural impulse...or something like that...

Should be on a T shirt.

It's pretty right. I once thought humanities emissions were smaller than natural emissions and that climate change was a small effect that humans didn't have much impact on, this was around 2000 or so. I don't recall exactly when I changed my mind about that but I do recall myself saying that to a guy doing door to door solar sales. At the time it would have been around $30,000 Probably $50,000 in todays money for a 2Kw system. I think I was using that as an argument basically to get the guy to go away. Anyway I think than then that prompted me to go and have a look to confirm and I found out that was wrong. I think I went "hmm" and then had a more open mind to climate change as a whole. I think probably over the course of the next few years I changed as climate change became more of a mainstream topic and my position solidified firmly in the camp of yeah people cause it and it is indeed quite a big deal. I now have a 6.6Kw solar system (that cost about 2 years electricity bill to install, and paid itself off in 4 IE ~$4K) and I have actually helped a few other people change their minds on climate change as a whole. The big takeaway for me is you won't *ever* win an argument with someone on the spot. People will not lose an argument because losing sucks. Being adversarial won't work. Don't even try. You will just hurt both of you. What I found that helped was asking them "how do you think climate change works?" Most people who deny it don't seem to really know. Like *really* know. It's all about CO2 and stuff and whatever. I go with, you know how we get light from the sun yeah? and you can see that right? They go yeah. And you know what infrared radiation is, like how you can hold your hand up to the oven or a fire and you can feel the heat coming off it. Yeah. Well that's why it gets colder at night, because all that heat is getting sent off into space and things cool down. The thing about CO2 is it lets that visible light from the sun in to the earth where it warms it up, but CO2 isn't transparent to that infrared radiation. So the earth instead of sending that infrared radiation out into space and cooling down stays just that little bit warmer. Like how it stays warmer on a cloudy night. (I know this is a gross simplification of the actual process, but it's close enough for most people who don't really know the difference between the solar system and a galaxy) Now, remember you 100% will not get them to change their mind about climate change, but you do get to see the gears turning in peoples heads. Give it a few years and they may change.

Ayo philosophy enthusiasts rise up

​@@zyebormI appreciate this. Being judgmental/confrontational tends to make people become entrenched, but just giving up does nothing. Planting a seed of uncertainty gives someone a reason to examine the facts later without anyone hovering over them.

I agree. I know a lot of people are saying it's ego but I think that lots of people lie about their past beliefs or pretend new evidence "just" came out when they change their minds about stuff like this, or otherwise protect their ego if that's the problem. I think it's usually that they truly believe they are correct, and that anyone telling them otherwise has underlying motives for doing so.

I think the last one (lack of control) is the one that will stick for the longest. Fear is potentially the most motivating of all emotions. Hell, I've believed the truth of climate change since I was a kid in the 80's and I manage to stifle the existential dread over climate change almost every single day. I *know* what's happening and yet I still manage to block it from my mind 99% of the time because otherwise it's panic inducing. I honestly envy those who manage to completely sink themselves in denial.

Mine too. I think there are a lot of different reasons behind it. For my family, it's like 1) scientific illiteracy/lack of critical thinking skills/lack of curiosity 2) us vs them, their "team" denies climate change and their political opponents support it and 3) religion. The religious part is weird because it swings them along the scale Hank is talking about: from "climate change doesn't exist" straight to "we don't need to do anything about it" ...because "this world is flawed and full of sin and if God decides it's time to end it then I'm ready."

There's also the fact that scientific rigor requires you to update your position. If you get more or newer data, you make new predictions. Or if one of your variables, like human behaviour, changes, you have to update your model. Similar to Covid "oh now the scientists are saying something new, see that's why you can't trust them." So they'll grab onto a prediction that was made in 1983 that didn't come COMPLETELY true (but close enough it's making life really difficult in some places) and never let it go.

I doubt it because people tell me all or the vast majority of scientists agree. But I know for certain I can go to the bank and be approved for a 30 year mortgage on a several tens of million of dollars home in a place that if the dire predictions are correct will be below sea level. Having worked for a bank, I know that mortgage won't see $1 of profit for almost half of its length, and yet every bank is willing to make thousands of these mortgages. I also know banks have teams and teams of people who pour over studies to tell the bank if it's bets are a good idea. Every bank on the planet is betting trillions and trillions that the dire warnings aren't real.

At least she allowed herself to be convinced by facts, even if she never admitted the change of mind.

I’ve noticed I do this sometimes and I’ve been trying really hard to make sure I face it when I’m wrong. Like “yup I was wrong, whatever” and move on, because I think it also helps you to better process the new information. What helped me to do it is to recognize that the only realize I think that is because I heard something wrong somewhere, because that is basically every opinion you have it’s built on what you’ve heard. And I’ve found it can be a lot easier to accept when you recognize it’s not really your fault, you heard something wrong and that just go put in your bank of knowledge and was used to form a thought that eventually lead to that opinion. And that’s fine, you aren’t stupid or wrong by your nature or anything, you were just misinformed at some point and now you’re correcting that. I think this mindset could help people to more readily admit they’re wrong, but I don’t really know how you’d actually convince someone to adopt it because I feel like any way you try to tell someone to think that way comes off as condescending, which obviously won’t work. But I think it helps a lot to separate yourself from the opinions you have that are all just based on stuff you’ve heard that may or may not be true, and in fact it can be hard to even trace back the origin of the knowledge so even if you know the source is dubious you might not realize the information came from that source

I had a friend like that. He would argue until you just submitted to get out of arguing. Even if he was proven wrong, he would still argue anything to make you give up. It's like a game to some people.

I should make it clear here that my mother is not vindictive about it and she does not dispute science. She just conveniently forgot that she was ever wrong. As a person with a pseudo-eidetic memory, I found this irritating as a child.

​@@bulldozer8950"the king must have been ill-advised" was the backbone of governments the world over for centuries. It's a remarkable ego relief valve.

"Wilks was no ordinary pastor. Along with his brother Dan Wilks, he was one of the U.S.’ newest billionaires. And their fortune came from an industry directly related to the planetary changes Wilks described in his sermon: fracking for oil and gas. The previous year he and Dan had sold their fracking company Frac Tech for $3.5 billion and each pocketed $1.4 billion. They now intended to use their new fossil fuel fortune to shift the moral values of the entire country-and the right-wing influencers they enlisted for the cause went on to become some of the world’s biggest purveyors of climate disinformation. In 2013, the same year Farris gave his sermon on “polar caps,” the brothers decided to donate more than $6.5 million to Prager University, which doesn’t have a campus and isn’t actually an accredited university. Founded by conservative talk-radio host Dennis Prager to fight against “liberal bias” in American classrooms, it packages right-wing ideology into viral videos aimed at young people. That model, aided by KZfaq recommendation algorithms, has resulted in billions of views across their digital platforms. “Their contribution essentially enabled PragerU to expand more rapidly,” Prager said of the Wilks brothers in an email to VICE News. In 2015, not long after the donation to PragerU, Farris Wilks provided $4.77 million in seed funding to start the Daily Wire, a right-wing news website and media company co-founded by Ben Shapiro. Then an aspiring conservative influencer, Shapiro would go on to have a personal Facebook following of over 8.6 million followers."

I feel like that may be the case. It's hard for people to accept being wrong. I can imagine it's a lot harder to accept that a large part of your life and actions have been making the planet inhabitable for human and current animal life. (Because let's be real, the planet isn't going to "die." It's survived much worst than humans.) It's easier to dismiss those notions and go on without experiencing cognitive dissonance or dispair. And the longer they're dismissed, the harder they become to accept because at that point many people have done it for so long, they made their stance part of themselves.

If you told your father that he was being ignorant, that would be a valid point. But your alleged responses use circular reasoning and are simply condescending. Case in point, the proper argument against someone for not believing in something they don’t understand is that they’re sticking their head in the sand, not that they’re wrong because they don’t understand.

My Dad doesn't believe in evolution by natural selection. Partly his problem is that he doesn't really understand the theory - at least in detail - in fact he confuses it with Lamarckism which is a competing theory of evolution that opposes 'natural selection' as the mechanism. I don't think you are necessarily being condescending. Condescension is normally portrayed by tone of voice and facial expression. Often the best way to get people to change their minds is to ask them questions - get them to explain what they think is going on. Help them work through the contradictions in their own position - BUT - of course - you have to be respectful.

My response to that one is "if this room were filled with 400ppm carbon *monoxide*, we'd be dead in a few hours.

So basically "I don't see how that could possibly be true." Classic argument from incredibly.

@@jim23mac Buy you do that you'll be accused of "trying to get in their heads" with their trick questions and they won't let you!

Oh 100 percent this.

Yeah but Its taken me years of pain in my bed and thinking about life to create a belief system around seeking the truth and what we know so far, because I prioritize the latter. But I also have a condition where I can barely understand my emotions and think with logical systems because my brain doesnt autofill with instict

Yup. The primary objective of our brains is not truth. It is internal consistency. So something needs to flip and then turn everything else.

Fascinating, I totally agree

Being social creatures does that

I had this mind set a few years ago and yeah it was fear. tbf I was a dumbass high school student and not a grown man but still. The only thing that convinced me was just sitting down and having a chat with myself and being like "do I really not think this is a problem or do I not want to admit that this is a problem" and it turned out its the later.

You should listen to your dad . I was 15 years old on earth day in 1970 not one thing these fear mongers have ever said has come true. They're 0 for 53.

It's probably not fear. The older you become, the harder it is to have a truly open mind about fundamental truths. As an old man, you are comfortable with the opinions and convictions you hold and everyone likes the feeling of knowing better - especially an older man.

ahhh, like the violent denial part of cognitive dissonance?

@@notlisztening9821 you do know that with climate predictions you don't make any money unless you have dire predictions. I don't believe in predictions that are paid for. They've already caught them cheating on the stats before. Don't get in the climate cult it's just another way of controlling you.. Look up William Harper he's an expert.

You are exactly right

...I live in Houston. When other places start flooding like we do, and they ARE, more people will realize we have a problem.

This reminds me of a little comic(?) I saw where a guy goes “Goddammit, climate change has finally affected me directly. I give up; you guys win. I'll pay a slightly higher marginal tax rate. I'll do whatever you want in order to get this under control. But - and this is key - I will not stop being racist.”

I hate that you're right, but ey u better believe imma be wasted and thinking about you when this time comes. You ain't alone

The sad reality is, those group of people simply DO NOT care about anything until it affects them personally or someone they know. Until THEY see it, then it's not happening in their world. The fact is these are people who only believe what they personally see or experience. If it's not affecting them personally, then to them it's as good as nonexistent. Only when it affects them is it suddenly a problem. The sad truth is though, by the time they see it, it will be too late to act.

This is hilarious to me because it was a chemistry class that finally convinced me that climate change is real. My parents totally believed the narrative that scientists had been bought by liberal groups to lie to the public about climate change. I was looking at the equation for ocean acidification when it clicked that you cant fake that equation in your favor. Any more than you can change 2+2=4.

I'm surprised not more people are commenting this. It's not like they lie for no reason, there's a lot of money involved, and it would be conceding defeat for people who are super keen on defending free markets.

@@Sodium_Slug The scary thing is, some people ARE lying for no reason. Repbulicans and Fox News constantly downplayed the pandemic and the science we use to combat it (masks, vaccines, quarantine). And for what? What do they gain out of it?

It's hilarious how much of the "skeptic" points are about how someone like Bill Gates (not a particularly good guy despite his philanthropy for the record) is invested in green energy, meat substitutes, and the like - as a gotcha to point out how "they" have a vested monetary interest to push global warming as something to care about. And, like, they have a point in some ways. Climate change should not be something that's monetized for big capital investors solely to improve their bottom line, but like... you're literally regurgitating arguments DIRECTLY BANKROLLED by a much larger and wealthier group of people who hold the reins over our current economic system and energy production. It's like someone scolding you for eating a sausage while they pull out their pack of cigarettes... in the middle of a fireworks-and-petrol factory

Fossil fuel companies are making bank off the climate change industry. Artificial cuts in production inflate their profits. They're likely supporting climate change scientists more than any other industry. Wind and solar are guaranteed losers that ensure Fossil fuel dominance.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. I don't believe for a second the right wing pundits that push climate change denialism believe it as much as they're bought and sold by the fossil fuel industry to create propaganda to protect their market share.

That’s really what conspiracy theorists are deep down: lonely. Worried that they’re not special. Desperate for attention (even if it’s in the form of ridicule)

Cough cough gender dysphoria

How can any large group of people agree on something if there is such a strong appeal to "not believe what everyone else does"?

There might be some appeal to being right when everyone else is wrong, but there is also appeal in being powerful as part of a large group of like-minded people who in solidarity can quash dissent, punish enemies/outsiders, etc.

Concrete in itself isn't the problem. In total, it contributes significantly to global CO2, but if you compare "how much does this concrete-and-steel building cost and how much would it cost to build it just from steel without concrete?" you'll start to see how using concrete is actually reducing our total CO2 output. And there simply aren't enough trees in the world to replace all the concrete we use with timber! The problem is that we're doing *so much* construction, and that so much of what we build is either shoddy work that won't even last a century, or it's poorly planned so we'll be tearing it down to build something else on that site in thirty years' time. And at the same time, the housing crisis in many affluent countries is directly caused by not building enough houses! It's a complicated problem, and complicated problems usually don't have simple solutions.

Otherwise known as the "four stage strategy": kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pLmIfMiltZvNkZ8.html

The true belief is closer to "the right people are dying" but they need to be drunk and coaxed to say it.

@ploopploopploopboop1887 If humans as a group have done a thing, humans as a group can undo it.

Saying "It's too late to do anything about climate change" is just another stalling tactic. See The New Climate War, by Michael Mann.

After "it's too late" comes "we could have fixed it, but liberals made it divisive and political, wasting any chances we had"

Then you'll get this: "what facts?" and then they'll take the position of only accepting the 'true facts' on the subject

Yep

@@Jones-pj2jk This exactly. And all the people who do that will deny any facts as "true facts" unless it's a "fact" that agrees with their opinion.

“If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn’t value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?” - Sam Harris

Yeah, science is not a religious belief, and saying that gives people the wrong idea

Same. I think he knows this and has a healthy amount of fear - no one wants to see the Alex Jonesification of Hank Green; but it is comforting, and i think gives some of us the permission we needed to ‘Get On With It Already’.

Ditto

I find it very immature. To inject emotion into a debate like this is to lose immediately. If you can't argue your points calm and rationally, you may as well give up. Alex Jones was right about fertilizer chemicals causing frogs to swap sexes, yet he was made fun of because he was shouting it up and down.

That's not completely true. Some of them are just idiots. Others are doing it out of greed. Most are denying reality because they worship a doomsday religion from the ancient world. They believe they're living in the end times and doing anything to solve the problem is the same as denying the existence of God.

Ironically for those who do just want to win, if they changed their point of view they could easily win ;)

To be fair, this is not a situation where being right is enough. There *is* something to be won or lost

@@someone7554 So, what exactly is being won or lost in this situation? Other than an argument, that is.

@@Alltime2050 I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re not a climate change denier. Do you seriously think there’s nothing to be gained by finally convincing everyone else that this is a serious problem?

🎯

How do you know, for certain, if someone is acting in bad faith?

Totally agree, but if that crowd is hold back progress then something has to be done.

@@thomasdequincey5811 The way Hank just articulated in the video. If they're still deniers, they're acting in bad faith. It's either bad faith because they've retreated into tribalism and their in-group denies it (they are shutting out rational thoughts in favor of still belonging to their group), or it's bad faith because a few dollars of tax money or exchanging the latest Octoburger challenge for eating reasonably is "too much cost" for them (selfishness).

Unreal problems do not request real solutions.

My dad always says “this world is black and white, but people want you to think there’s grey”. I’m used to such proudly ignorant mindsets.

​@@parmaxolotlin reality it's 99 percent gray.

this is why i don't talk to my family about anything related to politics and religion, it never ends well.

Exactly. I can bring my opinions with all the kindness and thought I want, I'll be faced with "show me studies then." So I do, and then I get the "studies are biased". So I get even more studies, and suddenly it's an issue of me using Google even though I also use other search engines. It's never-ending. I'm almost 30 , but I'm seen as an immature child. Anytime I want to argue against pseudoscience or fake beliefs, the story ends like this. It's infuriating.

@GreyPunkWolf this hit home

I mean we all do to some extent, some of us just do it a lot more than others. Honestly, it seems for many people, willful ignorance is the defining characteristic of their existence. It sets the path of their life.. in a very straight line.. with no growth. It's pretty sad to think about. Can you imagine living like that? That would be awful :/

He also touched upon cognitive dissonance. Our identities get so wrapped up in our beliefs (especially important beliefs) that we will simply refuse to absorb condridicting evidence, no matter how irrefutable.

When i did my own research i actually found more evidence to refute man made climate change than to support it.

Remember... willful ignorance isn't really "ignorance" so much as it is choosing to be wrong.

One can be intelligent AND ignorant - but, you HAVE to be a little on the stupid side to be "willfully" ignorant...

Enjoy your divorce.

he's fortunate to have such a patient partner. Kudos to you.

The fear thing is very real. When I went vegan I had to figure out how to explain why to people. I went vegan because of environmental reasons. Trying to explain to ideological carnivores that their diet contributes to climate change is a really uphill battle because they're really scared to admit that meat is bad. Meat, to them, is a huge part of their personality. It doesn't help that the media has told them that "real americans eat meat". We have to change a lot of how we live our lives, from what we drive to what we eat to the materials we use in our everydays lives. It's daunting, overwhelming, and scary.

​@@jackdeniston59"arguing" is not necessarily bad. Letting your feelings bottle up and inevitably explode is bad. Communicating like this is super healthy

​@@CRneuyes. Let's at least be scared together, I say

Yeah, that's me with climate change, civil rights, income inequality, etc. That old me didn't think that humans shouldn't have human rights! Old me didn't think that billionaires worked a thousand times harder than millionaires! Oh shit, I actually did. I was a bit of a monster. Imma go back to forgetting that I was a monster and the silent implication that I might still be a monster in certain aspects of my worldview and actions.

Thanks for the brutal honesty! We need people who will face that truth about themselves, that they are not the same and change and that identity is fluid and not a hill to die on. That we all should strive to become better people and that being better requires having been worse beforehand. People who fight that truth are people who will fight other realities, too, because they don't want to have to admit to themselves that they had to change.@@phillyphakename1255

@@phillyphakename1255 I understand this. I feel like it's really important to see your progress and own the mistakes of your past, though, and to always be challenging the assumptions and beliefs of your current self. We're reborn every day and we don't even notice it happening.

@@phillyphakename1255 Old you = didn't think billionaires worked a thousand times harder.. Also old you = monster Uh. No. Billionaires step on people to get where they are. So do millionaires - but just at a smaller successful scale.

@@mischarowe i think you misunderstood, the commenter was saying that his current self believed that his old self wasn't a monster, but upon reflection, it was.

It can come down to personality type as well. some types are willing and eager to test their own beliefs and assumptions because they want to get better, to improve. Others fear they will become lesser if they admit to being wrong. That's so deep down that they don't realize it.

Some of our understandings of other issues, like how we got in this mess in the first place, are wrong...

What's that saying? To fool an idiot, you need only outstep their intelligence. To convince a fool they've been fooled, you need to outdo their ego.

No, some of us have brains and aren't persuaded by bullshit. We can't change something we have very little impact on. It's cute and fun and all that to blame humans, and while we are *part* of the equation, I'm pretty sick of hearing how "humans are destroying the planet". It's doing what it does in the process of correcting imbalance. Only an absolute *idiot* believes that 8B people aren't going to cause change. And there's *nothing* we can do to reverse it. Well, that's almost accurate. Nobody wants to do or otherwise even just allow to happen the thing that would *actually* help. A certain airborne virus comes to mind

​@@mobilityproject3485That's because "how we got here" has less to do with us and more to do with the core nature of things 🙄

"The world is gonna end and if we don't shame all the whores in the town, the plague is gonna get worse." That's what climate change fanatics sound like

@Antonio-Granscithere are a number of things believed by the Republican Party and other right wing parties that are explicitly incorrect. For example, that the climate is not changing.

@Antonio-Gransci Perhaps 'false belief' is more accurate. Regardless, the fact is that a huge amount of politics nowadays (specifically on the right-wing, much less on the left) is based on false narratives intentionally spun to anger the populace or sow false complacency, manipulation to the ends of the rich or powerful. Whether it be to not believe that transitioning away from fossil fuels is a good idea (for corporate interest), or the fear of immigants and sexual minorities (for political interest in getting re-elected). This is not just a US issue, but a global issue. Unlike the other commentator, I am not going to solely point at the Republicans, because they're but one of many examples of this.

@Antonio-Gransci The earth is round, and believing it is a rational belief, and everyone who doesn't believe it is fringe nuts. It absolutely does not mean your politics are terrible if you understand that people who deny obvious facts are on the fringes.

@Antonio-Gransci i have a hard time believing you’re actually a leftist. if so, you’re the first leftist i’ve met that’s this stupid. congrats.

fr

I got the original notification and saved for later an hour after when I came back it was gone!

​@@GaviLazanme too 😭

I saw it too. What happened? Was it under edited or something?

Did he change anything about the video? I rememver seeing it in my feed, but being unable to watch it and then shedding a tear 🥲

It is not our failure. It is our politicians failure to time and again were too spineless to stand up to big corporations and force them to adopt a slow transition.

This is exactly right. The success of early denial (not happening, not us) in delaying action made the later denial (too expensive) more compelling, although still very far from true compared to the true cost of inaction. There is no punishment sufficient for the relatively few leaders of this orchestrated misinformation campaign, not that they will ever be punished anyway.

It is our collective failure, as a species, but I can still be mad at the Politicians, Corporations, Rich prats, and any individuals who had the means to make change happen, and chose not to. (especially as you point out, they've had over FOURTY YEARS!! It's inconceivable to me that they can *still* be this hellbent on just destroying the only planet we have, and they have plenty of evidence that is exactly what's happening.)

​@@page8301 It's a failure somewhere, because the politicians who kept unwinding efforts to get off of fossil fuels were elected.

The problem is that it's not gonna be the deniers suffering the costs but the people who already have it the worst.

Mine is the 5th largest wildfire 🔥 ever in my state known for wildfires

Oh and the hottest average temperature 🌡 ever. Highest day ever in the world 🌎

@@scottstonebarger2361 there were a few areas that broke their record every day for a week straight. Terrifying.

They’d say the same about us though

Whose to say you aren't the fool? Skeptics don't make silly predictions about the future, that get proven wrong.

People whined when one weapon replaced another--crossbows vs. longbows, Telephone vs. telegraph. Coal vs. renewable.

that, and anything a democrat believes must automatically be wrong because party politics

i think it’s just a high population of really stupid people who 1. like being contrarian, like being in the “in-group” (see: conspiracy theorists and q anon) 2. billionaires know theres a high population of stupid people and use their money to manipulate said stupid people 3. once someone who’s dumb enough and egotistical enough to fall for it in the first place believes something like that, there’s no digging them out. we just have to wait until they die.

I'm sorry but liberal tech industries are far more destructive for the planet than anything going on your little "deep red" town. Go to any office space at Google and you'll find a whole bunch of stuff that's dug up by slaves in the worst eco-safe way possible. Yes, because Nike, a super left leaning company, is totally innocent when it has slaves make their shoes. Good try dude

Ya'll said the exact same thing about the pandemic and in the end it turned out we all wore masks that do nothing and took vaccines that don't prevent transmission. Why would anyone believe one of your anxiety-spells again?

it's the place to be.

"allow yourself to let go of the frustration" that's beautifully put.

It's okay to be wrong or ignorant. Staying that way is not.

Oh, but this is beyond just being wrong.

Yeah ok, do nothing while the world gets destroyed, such a pragmatic take, people like you are part of the problem, selfish self absorbed individualistic human

I agree. They want to have single-use plastics and toss them in the garbage can without feeling guilty. They want to drive huge cars at ridiculously high speeds. They want to eat meat at every meal and eat cheese with everything. They want to run their air conditioning at 69 degrees. It they admit the problem then they have to reconcile themselves with their behavior.

Sure, The climate is changing. How much humans have to do with it is debatable. My problem is you people seem to be on this self-righteous mission to "save the planet". That is not what it is though. For most of this planet's history, it has been inhospitable to human life. Even after life showed up most of that time has been spent inhospitable to human life. You people don't want to save the planet. You want to stagnate the planet. You are selfish and want the planet to stay exactly how it is right now.

You're revealing it is a progressive (or more accurately, regressive) political agenda

@@safetinspector2 You also have to recognize that people's behavior isn't gonna change, so why not make single use plastics that will degrade themselves in a year, they cost almost the same, why not have better designed houses so you can have your house at whatever temperature you want without problem (having air conditioning is actually the greener choice BTW, from an energy viewpoint, they use less energy than what the differential in temperature is), going at higher speeds can actually reduce the overall wasted energy, so it is more about the fuel source than speeds. And finally meat consumption, when you put everything on the table, it is not cut and clear, it is much more energy dense, it has much more nutrients, so it is not bad, the over consumption is the problem, we are omnivores, we can survive with only vegetables, but we need meat to have a proper well nourished diet. But most people that eat omnivore do not eat organs, they only eat the worse quality meat, muscle, and overeat, so the protein is not well used and they end up consuming a lot of fat, that is without taking into consideration how much just end up thrown out, so, it is other habits that need to change, habits that vegans also have (but morality speaking, vegans trow out fruit and vegetables, omnivores will thrown out what was once another sentient animal). The industry could be reduced to like half and there will still be enough for everyone that wants meat, just in a normal quantity.

@@alenasenie6928 it’s a KZfaq thread, so trying to exchange links that debunk your points won’t be helpful. You go on and I’ll go on

The human brain is a very sophisticated self-justification machine. This is best exemplified by some individuals with split-brain syndrome. When one of their limbs acts without their conscious awareness and the individual is asked why they did so, they confabulate a justification for their actions rather than acknowledging they didn't move it consciously. As with most human behavior, there is likely some deep-rooted evolutionary explanation for this phenomenon. But as sentient creatures, we are not slaves to our programming. We are capable of overcoming ourselves with conscious effort and reflection.

@@sleeplessdev7204 love the optimism but I don’t think some people are capable of overcoming it with conscious reflection. there’s nothing special about conscious thought that allows it to reach around deeply ingrained biases.

even simpler than forgetting they believed differently: it's too embarrassing to admit they used to be a denier, so they lie about it

@@marcuskissinger3842 There is though! Not everyone _will_ change, but everyone _can._ Critical thought, self-reflection, and self-regulation can allow us to overcome our biases. It's not easy, but we don't have to be tethered by them

@@sleeplessdev7204 I've realized that it's a part of being in society, it's cultural. Some humans in smaller tribes don't do such things. But those in bigger societies, 1s existence depends on ensuring others have favorable impression of it & always being able to justify what it did was, well, well justified, is crucial. So humans develop such patterns early on in life. Justifying their choices to others so they'll seem valid/fine (to save itself from negative consequences); maintaining them confidently. Even some prisoners deny their misdeed, keep telling others they didn't kill the other (unless there's very accurate footage), or didn't do any wrong, to save themselves from punishment. Admitting that i was deceiving before later would make others view me quite differently as i don't want, so i continue to deny, to save the reputation. So yeah, i think it's due to present culture that's causing this, not only biological. Think of someone using popular narrative of the time to save itself, like "god made me do it, hinted me to do it, ...". Depending on what narrative that binds the society together is, causes such behavior, i suspect. Large societies needs common narrative to keep it together. & narratives are usually false, because we don't yet have understood the reality completely.

I don't think they just never talk about things again. I think most of them just go on to being bizarrely wrong about other things

Or like the conspiracy theories surrounding the covid vaccine, so many people saying so many crazy things about it, that people were going to end up dying and kinds of nonsense.

@@joshc5613 Yep and it happens a lot in doomsday predictions. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e5eVaKtyv9WYmas.html

I grew up around a LOT of the "the world is ending in 2012" folks, and while I didn't believe in that, I DID worry that those people in my life (and others like them) would start doing wild crap to, uh, "beat the apocalypse." Having grown up with an uncle who said he'd rather drown his family than wait for the end, I was afraid of that year bc of people like him. So, naturally, I called to check up on my bf in December, when the big bad was supposed to happen. I asked if he was doing ok, if there was any cultist crap, if his neighborhood was safe with all the conspiracy nuts, and he just laughed. He genuinely thought I was being ABSURD even worrying about the doomsdayers, and suddenly I was a little shamed-- from the outside, I didn't look any more tethered than my uncle. I apologized, but that was kind of the nail in the coffin, we broke up right after. For years I was so ashamed of how much fear mongering I had done without meaning to, and it didn't occur to me to publicly post about the context of my shift/sudden silence and moving on. I ultimately did, in the interest of trying to open up lines to people who maybe soft cut ties because I was One of Those People. I only share this bc I imagine a lot of the true believers (and casual worriers) were so embarrassed by how much time they spent in the grift that they still don't know how to acknowledge it without feeling like they're going to lose more face (admitting to being tricked or led on) than by staying silent. It's weird because they really didn't, but it's one of those emotional vs rational responses. People don't want to admit their pride made them marks. But I do think a good portion committed themselves to trying to spot other grifts. Unfortunately I think many others ran to more welcoming conspiracy communities that already had a locked and loaded Other to blame for things not going "according to plan." Eeesh.

oh no those people still think the world ended in 2012 and we live in purgatory or a simulation or some other unfalsifiable bullshit.

Potholer54 is honestly I think has one of the best channels out there when it comes to climate science. His logical, scientific method-oriented approach, and touch of British condescending humor I think reaches out to a lot of the same people are otherwise turned off by people like Greta Thunburg and activists who talk about "climate justice" would make the same people double down. Even I disagree with some climate activists on certain points, for example I think emerging economies, particularly in certain cities and countries on the Asian continent where wealth and urbanization (aka: BRIC/authoritarian nations) has gone up exponentially since the 1990s need to be pressured to take up their share of the burden on climate and environmental policy, whereas "The West/NATO/G7 nations have for the most part been putting forth their best effort to reduce carbon annual carbon emissions and are on their way to net-zero, (even if not fast enough).

It takes bravery to admit that- I tip my hat to you

Potholer has been doing excellent work for years and honestly deserves more recognition (and maybe a professional editor 😅). Thank you for having the courage and honesty to admit that you were wrong, it's a virtue that is sorely lacking in todays world.

Potholer is the absolute best and I am glad to hear that his method was effective. It is so frustrating when logic seems to be useless.

I think there's a lot of people like you that get convinced but keep denying as a form of in-group virtue signaling to own the libs.

I think you are right, I dont like the "i kinda get it" part :p If you are a kid, sure, you are allowed to "close your eyes" from horrible things, but if you still do that when you are an adult, you are a horrible human beeing. What I think should happen to ppl like that, I think is against youtubes guidlines to write. But I will think it!!!

It’s not necessary and it’s not inevitable. Humans have factually had a very low impact on the climate and most of human damage to the environment was vastly china’s fault. Unless you’re living in or around china then changing your lifestyle isn’t gonna make any difference. Volcanos hilariously enough are the highest contributor to climate damage. But the climate changing in and of itself is a result of the glacial and interglacial warming periods. Something humans have nothing to do with and can’t stop. People need to accept that the government and media and filled with liars who’ll even lie about the colour of the sky being blue. They make money off this and it’s not the first time science and media has completely fabricated evidence to push a narrative, did everybody forget about the 3 years of lying from the government about Covid? Are we just forgetting that happened?

Absolutely correct. Humility, accountability, honesty. These don't come naturally

The climate change deniers I talk to say these things: 1) It'll hurt the economy!!! IT's not worth hurting the economy over (And you can explain to them the economy means nothing without no world, but they believe in being economically pragmatic about it over everything else) Another one, 2) "This is just the natural cycle of things! We aren't doing anything! Volcanoes!!!" - The funny thing about this is they act like adding EXTRA CO2 will do absolutely nothing. They act as if there is no consequences to our actions. As if we can just pollute and pollute endlessly and that there is no limit to how much we can because "The Earth is hardy and can take it, and us 'puny' humans can't possibly impact the Earth" - and that is a sentiment that has been expressed to me is basically they don't believe humans are even capable of changing the climate. I guess they don't believe in actions having reactions. I guess they think you can pollute infinitely with no consequences.

Florida over water

I think the mainstream conservative position will become belief in government weather control machines. (Then get mad if you say that's technically manmade global warming.)

Except it isn't heat record year, like, never. The heat record year was a few billions ago.

@@r-gart It is a record year since the arrival of humanity. If you dont count for human conditions you are right.

"it was hotter than we could ever make it 65 million years ago when an asteroid hit the earth so our current numbers don't matter actually"

And yes I know they said billions but exact same mentality

One of the things that astonishes me the most I think is that so many climate deniers are elderly. As an older person myself, I'm like, you've been alive for so long... how can you not see how much things have changed since you were a kid? I'm only in my 50s, and watching the world physically _change_ over the course of my short life has been pretty alarming.

​@@KaotiquaA ton of it is obviously that past a certain age people lose cold tolerance (one of the drivers for old folks moving south to retire). As someone in retail sales, many people make it clear through tidbits in conversation that they want it to be warming up but don't want people knowing they're that stupid/selfish so they deny it instead. Many have straight up said things to me like "good - you guys will figure it out, besides its too damn cold in the winter here anyways." And not to antagonize me or joke - they were perfectly calm and clearly believed that.

Well, then you told them lies. It was warmer in 2003 than today and it was even warmer in 1935 than it was in 2003. You have still a lot to learn, little boy.

​@@oldineamiller9007That's patently false. Average global temperature is significantly higher now and still rising. As of 2022, the 9 warmest years on record were exactly the 9 previous years! Use your brain, Google something for once in your life, look at records, quit your bullshit!

​@@oldineamiller9007www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/monitoring/monthly-report/global/202213